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anotherbutters
New member
If your lifts aren't that great, maybe you'd be better served by the single factor. What do you squat/bench/deadlift? How old are you and how much do you weigh?Maks said:
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Sheesh ... another 5x5 question :) how much progress is actually progress ?
- Thread starter Maks
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Maks
New member
*blushes*
32 years old, 1,90 m height, around 85 kg, unknown BF
with the lifts thats a hard question ... i really dont know. Just started with dls and deep squats, im still struggling with the form, dls with 60 kg 5x5 , squats with 70 kg 5x5 right now. It feels pretty light that way, im increasing them 5 kg per week, i probably wont hit my max in this cycle, planning to stretch the volume phase to 6 weeks though. On Friday i benched 5x 80kg, there is still some air in it i feel but not far as much as for the dls/squats. Yeah i know its pretty embarassing. And rediculous - benching more than dling/squatting ...
I've been hitting the gym on and off for some years now (7-8 ? not sure ...) but i always did what the other guys did - all that shitty half-hearted gym stuff. Lots of isolation, no core training, man, there wasnt even a BB for squatting/dling in the gym. Noone really knew what they were doing. There were guys with good gains, but they took lots of roids - thats no choice for me. I always have trouble gaining weight due to high work load in real life and no proper eating. I really dont know why i kept on going all that time, motivation has been really low the last years.
Well, and - lo and behold - recently i stumbled about this amazing site - first i thought its all about anabolics again, but no ! a whole forum with training/ exercises only !! So im pretty excited about this 5x5 stuff, motivation is up again, and im hitting the gym again regularly in high spirits (its a different gym now, they do have stations for free squatting, although the people are kind of strange).
Really, sometimes i think motivation is the main part, and if you have a program you really believe in you will get good gains. No matter if the program is really good or not, if you really BELIEVE ... kind of stupid, hu ?
Anyways, you guys have hooked me up now, there is no way of me letting go again for quite some time.
Cheers !
32 years old, 1,90 m height, around 85 kg, unknown BF
with the lifts thats a hard question ... i really dont know. Just started with dls and deep squats, im still struggling with the form, dls with 60 kg 5x5 , squats with 70 kg 5x5 right now. It feels pretty light that way, im increasing them 5 kg per week, i probably wont hit my max in this cycle, planning to stretch the volume phase to 6 weeks though. On Friday i benched 5x 80kg, there is still some air in it i feel but not far as much as for the dls/squats. Yeah i know its pretty embarassing. And rediculous - benching more than dling/squatting ...
I've been hitting the gym on and off for some years now (7-8 ? not sure ...) but i always did what the other guys did - all that shitty half-hearted gym stuff. Lots of isolation, no core training, man, there wasnt even a BB for squatting/dling in the gym. Noone really knew what they were doing. There were guys with good gains, but they took lots of roids - thats no choice for me. I always have trouble gaining weight due to high work load in real life and no proper eating. I really dont know why i kept on going all that time, motivation has been really low the last years.
Well, and - lo and behold - recently i stumbled about this amazing site - first i thought its all about anabolics again, but no ! a whole forum with training/ exercises only !! So im pretty excited about this 5x5 stuff, motivation is up again, and im hitting the gym again regularly in high spirits (its a different gym now, they do have stations for free squatting, although the people are kind of strange).
Really, sometimes i think motivation is the main part, and if you have a program you really believe in you will get good gains. No matter if the program is really good or not, if you really BELIEVE ... kind of stupid, hu ?
Anyways, you guys have hooked me up now, there is no way of me letting go again for quite some time.
Cheers !
Protobuilder
New member
I'd say you're definitely a candidate for teh single-factor version. Basically, you don't do the dual factor version until you really need the hard-and-fast periodization to make gains. You're not at that point. You might as well milk the single-factor version, especially if you're still getting adjusted to the basic compounds (squats & DLs). It's a lot easier to set up as well so you might find it easier to stay motivated -- less haggling over all the "week 3" vs. "week 8" crap.
anotherbutters
New member
lol, no offence, but I think my first question when someone asks about the DF is always going to be the one I asked above. Nothing to blush about, we all have to start somewhere. You have to match the training to the person's needs though, which is why I asked.
It's easy to jump onto the dual factor. It is a good program and it will yield good results. But it's more suitable for someone who is at the stage where their gains have slowed down and the simpler programs no longer work (say, after 2 years of hard training). It's a slow program suited for people who are gaining slowly. The single factor is suited to people at an earlier stage of their lifting career as it takes advantage of the rapid progress they're capable of.
Have a read of the single factor and try that instead. It'll be quicker for you. Here's a new table of contents that madcow's working on, with an updated description: http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/table_of_contents_thread.htm
Incidentally, did you read about both the single factor and dual factor and choose between them? Or did you read about the dual factor and not know about the single factor? I ask because it's traditionally been the case that people jump onto the dual factor when the single factor would serve them better.
It's easy to jump onto the dual factor. It is a good program and it will yield good results. But it's more suitable for someone who is at the stage where their gains have slowed down and the simpler programs no longer work (say, after 2 years of hard training). It's a slow program suited for people who are gaining slowly. The single factor is suited to people at an earlier stage of their lifting career as it takes advantage of the rapid progress they're capable of.
Have a read of the single factor and try that instead. It'll be quicker for you. Here's a new table of contents that madcow's working on, with an updated description: http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/table_of_contents_thread.htm
Incidentally, did you read about both the single factor and dual factor and choose between them? Or did you read about the dual factor and not know about the single factor? I ask because it's traditionally been the case that people jump onto the dual factor when the single factor would serve them better.
Maks
New member
Somehow i always get a site not found error on those geocities threads ...
Yes i've read both of the 5x5 programs, including all of them threads. Hehe except for the geocities ones.
Yes i simply jumped to the DF version. First, i wanted to do something totally different from the things i did before. Ok, doing all those basic lifts is very much different. But with periodization it is even more. I know it sounds kind of stupid, but im so sick of the routines i did all those years. Second, the SF is assuming that you still gain easily, and frankly, i dont think that i will. After i stop struggling with the form, getting better will be slow. But you are right, at least i should have tried out the SF version until i hit stagnation. Maybe i got overexcited.
Well, i think i will complete this DF cycle no matter what. I really like the idea, and so far it is really fun. And, honestly, i dont expect to explode in strength and weight simply by changing my program. Real life usually doesnt work like that. But anyways, even a slight progress would be so darn GREAT !!! It has been stagnation or decline for me the last years, and i already had made up my mind that progress is something that happens to other people. So, if i can increase my performance with DF or SF a little bit i will be one really happy man !
So, maybe i will consider SF after my first DF cycle, depending on how i feel and how much room for improvement on the side conditions (eating, resting) i have. LoL thats the way you did it as well from what i read
Ok, thanks for all that input guys, i really appreciate it. Its really sad when you cant talk to your friends about an important part of your spare time. They think im crazy going to the gym lifting weights. I already was accused taking anabolics ... can you imagine that ? Me ? With those body measures ???
Well enough of that ranting.
Thanks again !
Yes i've read both of the 5x5 programs, including all of them threads. Hehe except for the geocities ones.
Yes i simply jumped to the DF version. First, i wanted to do something totally different from the things i did before. Ok, doing all those basic lifts is very much different. But with periodization it is even more. I know it sounds kind of stupid, but im so sick of the routines i did all those years. Second, the SF is assuming that you still gain easily, and frankly, i dont think that i will. After i stop struggling with the form, getting better will be slow. But you are right, at least i should have tried out the SF version until i hit stagnation. Maybe i got overexcited.
Well, i think i will complete this DF cycle no matter what. I really like the idea, and so far it is really fun. And, honestly, i dont expect to explode in strength and weight simply by changing my program. Real life usually doesnt work like that. But anyways, even a slight progress would be so darn GREAT !!! It has been stagnation or decline for me the last years, and i already had made up my mind that progress is something that happens to other people. So, if i can increase my performance with DF or SF a little bit i will be one really happy man !
So, maybe i will consider SF after my first DF cycle, depending on how i feel and how much room for improvement on the side conditions (eating, resting) i have. LoL thats the way you did it as well from what i read
Ok, thanks for all that input guys, i really appreciate it. Its really sad when you cant talk to your friends about an important part of your spare time. They think im crazy going to the gym lifting weights. I already was accused taking anabolics ... can you imagine that ? Me ? With those body measures ???
Well enough of that ranting.
Thanks again !
Maks said:
Which ones? I've never heard of anyone having an issue with the site:
Main: http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/
TOC: http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/table_of_contents_thread.htm
Linear/SF: http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Linear_5x5.htm
Periodized/DF: http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Periodized_5x5.htm
Maybe it's a certain link in the TOC (i.e. the Angelface Training Theory one is pointing no where at the moment).
anotherbutters
New member
I know what you mean. When I started, I spent quite a lot of time spinning my wheels without getting anywhere too. I also jumped into the DF first, although I can't remember whether I'd read about the SF at the time. madcow has put a lot of effort into rewriting the descriptions and directing people towards the program that's most suitable for them, hence my question as to where you'd read about them.
My DF didn't work brilliantly, but that's because I wasn't eating enough (around 2300 cals). After that, I started eating more (around 3800 cals) and switched to the SF. I was also skeptical, but I seemed to set a new PR every week and carried on that way for quite a long time. Skepticism over! I'm about your age and started from roughly the same position.
If you have some free time on your hands, you might be interested in how I got on. Here's a link to my journal on this site: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=413888
If you want to see the results, go to page 14, post #265. It gets a bit boring after that because I hurt my back, but it should give you an idea of what could be in store for you if you stick with it and eat enough to put on weight.
BTW, the geocities links have always worked fine for me.
My DF didn't work brilliantly, but that's because I wasn't eating enough (around 2300 cals). After that, I started eating more (around 3800 cals) and switched to the SF. I was also skeptical, but I seemed to set a new PR every week and carried on that way for quite a long time. Skepticism over! I'm about your age and started from roughly the same position.
If you have some free time on your hands, you might be interested in how I got on. Here's a link to my journal on this site: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=413888
If you want to see the results, go to page 14, post #265. It gets a bit boring after that because I hurt my back, but it should give you an idea of what could be in store for you if you stick with it and eat enough to put on weight.
BTW, the geocities links have always worked fine for me.
Maks
New member
Madcow2 said:
All of them. I get a "Site not found error" with all of your links in this post. I get it when i click on it, when i try to open it in a new window, and when i do a copy/paste in the address bar.
Well, i suppose a google search will get me eventually there (although on my first try i got lots of results for mad cow disease
)
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