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Sarm S4 Journal

jacshelb

jacshelb

New member
I haven't really seen a complete journal using s4 anywhere on the net. I've seen bits and pieces, but I figured I'd give a detailed account of my experiences.

Here's my situation: I'm lightly doing a keto diet. What that means is that I'm not restricting myself to very low cal, but I am not eating carbs except for two cheat meals per week (weird, I know, but my preference for maintaining muscle). Also, I'm not doing direct cardio, but I do take care of an apartment building, do construction projects etc etc. I would liken it to doing about 3-4 30-45 min cardio sessions per week- at least.

So, I'm dieting, but not starving or killing myself with cardio. I'm beginning my s4 use about 5 weeks into the diet. I'm right around 210 lbs at 13% bf right now and totally clean from all anabolics for about 2 months. I'm starting with a very low dose of s4 at 25 mg a day first week, 50 mg the second week, and 75 mg the third and go from there. My only goal right now is fat loss and muscle maintenance (maaaybe a bit of muscle gain if possible/ i.e. recomp). I would love to see the scale stay put and the bf to go down!

1st day- June 8, 2009

210 lbs

13% bf

25 mg/day s4


And, to get this out of the way. I don't have access to a source for this. A friend and very good bro helped me out big time. You know who you are, thanks again. I wish I did have some info to offer, but you are just going to have to hunt around and see what you can find. I guess this stuff is pretty rare at the moment, but it's out there. And, I'm sure someone wants to make some money from it. I just don't have access at this point and am going on the good charity of a fellow meathead at this point.

Thanks, and I'll keep this journal updated as I go along. I will be running it and bumping it up from oblivion even after this phase as I intend to run s4 after my next cycle as part of my pct to retain gains.


All the best,

Jacob
 
Me too! lol. I won't have much to input on this thread for a couple weeks I'm sure. The first two weeks are just to adjust and see how bad the vision sides become. Should be interesting!
 
Not much to report yet, only this: If there is a Devil, and he has an asshole.... I'm pretty sure they patterned the flavor for sarm s4 liquid directly after THAT taste. Yeesh. I was warned, but thought I was tough. The bad part is it doesn't hit you for about 10 seconds and then, blech. It's just slightly worse than the worst liquid research chem you've ever tasted- including clomid.
 
A bit over a week in. Looks like I'm getting a bit more muscle fullness than normal- I'm on low carbs. I'm at 50 mg /day right now. No vision problems. For whatever reason (not necessarily this) my right nip is a bit tighter, small gyno mass seems to have shrunk a bit. Weird as I'm not on any anti-e, just s4 and 7-keto dhea.
 
Thanks for the update, planning on S4 bridge but worried about vision problems, are you planning on going above the 50mg / day?? What is the max you plan on - I hear vision problems are REALLY bad at 100mg for some people.
 
I'm going to 75 mg/day. I'm just doing it right now to test it by itself, but I'll be using for pct/bridge as well. I've worked it out at 75mg/day to give me a decent amount over the course of time that I need (6 weeks at a time).

Again, I'm on about 35 grams of carbs a day, plenty of protein and enough fat. But, usually I'm very flat while doing this diet and have been up until this last week. After my re-feed I seem to be holding some shape and fullness in my muscles. I don't expect to gain anything while dieting, but I want to halt muscle loss.
 
Sounds good, I usually stay pretty low carb and perform and look much better on high protein / fat. My big concern is the vision problems, so I am assuming ramping from 50 mg / day to 75mg has not induced the vision problems others have had? I plan on using the SARM 4 (provided I can get it) as a bridge as well for about 6 weeks maybe 8.

Keep up the updates, they are beneficial - I really hope the slow ramping / low dose protocol prevents the vision problems.

S
 
Just about done with the second week. This week was 50 mg per day. I did not lift in a traditional way. I busted my ass helping move my extensive home gym to the second floor of my building where I'm (slowly) making a training studio for paying clients or just for people who want the basics for cheap. There is a super long and steep stair case, which makes a great leg warm up for training, but sucks carrying hundreds upon hundreds of lbs of plates and dumbells up.

I say all this to explain that by all accounts I should be very overtrained right now: working like a dog doing heavy lifting all day in the heat, eating mostly low carb meals etc etc. But, I look much better than two weeks ago when I was getting adequate rest. My libido is up slightly. My fat is down noticeably- by a couple lbs. And, my muscles are more full than when I last posted a couple days ago. I've noticed an eye pleasing shift toward a better v-shape as my waist has come down and shoulders filled out.

I have been taking in 30-50 more grams of protein every day, the 50 mg of s4 5 days per week, and DHEA.

Call me crazy or believing too much in the hype. But, I am a person who easily gets overtrained (hence not doing weights while moving the gym this week). And, I tend to flatten out on low carb and had all but stalled on my fat burning. I'm not saying I'm getting Testosterone and DNP results here. But, I look good. I look better in a subtle but noticeable way. Still no vision problems at this point- though it's only the end of the second week and only at 50 mg/day.
 
Sounds good!

I am looking at 0.5mg / kg to start which I can round up to 50mg / day and ramp up to 75mg / day over 6 -8 weeks I bridge. Not really worried about body fat just want to keep: 1) strength 2) hardness 3) size / weight. If all goes well, I probably will NOT go to 100mg / day - no reason to tempt fate with vision problems

for body fat I have lots of options : ephedrine / T3 , PGCL, Peptides (GHRP & CJC), Dermatherm - a combo of these always works wells with GOOD DIET! (AGX stack if they ever finish Lipostim 3).

S
 
End of week three. I used 75 mg per day divided morning/afternoon. No bad vision problems for me at this point. A bit of a difference transitioning from outside in the sun to a dark room and headlights on cars at night have a bit of a yellow haze. But, other than that no problems to speak of. I have been doing mon-fri and taking sat and sun off hoping to offset the vision thing.

I have to confess, I fucked up my diet the last week or two here. I have been doing low carb in the hopes of losing a bit of extra fat. All this week I seem to have stalled out on the fat loss. And, when I took a specific look at my intake I saw why. I have been taking in around 2900 calories a day which is maintenance for me even when pretty active- as I have been. So weight hasn't really moved much up or down this past week. It's been hot here and I haven't done a ton of outdoor work. I look fairly good, but no dramatic changes from last week to this week. I'm going to cut my calories down by around 500 per day for the next two weeks before I start my real aas cycle.

I guess my journal will effectively end when that cycle begins as it'll be impossible to tell the difference between gains on s4 and aas. In fact I think I'll save the rest for pct as soon as I start my cycle. I'm not totally amazed by s4, but I can see some results even when my diet and training has been not what it should be at times. That to me, noticing those subtle improvements over normal, tells me it's worth it. I have two more weeks to go. If I maintain muscle and lose a little fat over the next two weeks I'll be pleased as punch.


Later.
 
Note here, I just looked back on last week's post and I guess there has been a change. My weight is up 1 lb, now at 206 lbs. And, this morning, my abs did look pretty good- till I went and had my cheat meal... ahhh pancakes. But, I noted that my waist measurement is not down, still at 34.5". And, what I mentioned last week about the extra protein is where I got "off" this week in my diet. All said I have been taking in right around 80-100 extra grams per day (not the 30-50 I started out increasing it to) and a bit more fat than I need. I'm going to try and cut the extra calories out in fat, but that protein level is getting kinda high for me at 370 grams+ per day. So, I may back off that too.
 
Thanks for taking the time to consistently update your log bro. Not many people actually finish logs... Like me, I started an igf log an never completed although I really enjoyed my results.

However, I must say... And don't take this the wrong way, as I am not meaning to be rude... But you say that you aren't totally amazed with Sarm S4...

But in all honesty your admitted your diet wasn't on 100% and I am not sure what your training was like, but you make it sound that your training wasn't on 100% either. I don't mean to criticize you but Sarm S4 is obviously like everything else, you get out what you put in. If you only tried 50%, you are only going to get 50% results.

I would probably say the same thing about a test/tren cycle if I was only operating at 50%. I'd say I'm not impressed...

I guess what I am trying to say is that with the diet and training you talked about, you weren't setting yourself up to really gain muscle or lose fat. So I am guessing the results are affected by that.

Again, I applaud you for keeping up with it... And I urge you for these last 2 weeks to approach your diet/training like you just started a cycle and see what happens.

I'll be running Sarm S4 in my next PCT, and I will definitely make a log and a log of the end of my cycle of AAS and Peptides. And I will actually keep up with it this time... Like you have been.
 
sonicwaste said:
However, I must say... And don't take this the wrong way, as I am not meaning to be rude... But you say that you aren't totally amazed with Sarm S4...

But in all honesty your admitted your diet wasn't on 100% and I am not sure what your training was like, but you make it sound that your training wasn't on 100% either. I don't mean to criticize you but Sarm S4 is obviously like everything else, you get out what you put in. If you only tried 50%, you are only going to get 50% results.

I would probably say the same thing about a test/tren cycle if I was only operating at 50%. I'd say I'm not impressed...
Click to expand...

Totally agree with you. I should have clarified. With me, had I been doing the same thing on prop and tren I would have put on 8 lbs of water and blood volume making me look bigger. I guess I was trying to say that S4 isn't going to do stuff like that. You won't be blown away with some kind of instant amazing results no matter what you do. Like you said, you have to do the right stuff diet and training wise. It's more of a subtle helper. Like using one of those new precision electric hammers on a nail vs. a sledge (test and tren). I definitely think it's worth while and will continue to use it. Like you I'm looking forward to using is pct for sure.
 
Thanks for the update!

I guess approx 75mg is the cutoff before vision probs start. I would be careful, other bro's have said that the vision probs START GRADUAL but then increase RAPIDLY and are sudden onset where it becomes almost impossible to see at night. I am still considering S 4 but if the results are not great i.e worth the risk I may pass and go with my other plan: peptides + Deramacrine and some other OTC stuff and really watch my diet & training. Needto & Nelson are planning on releasing a new bridge / pct product so that may be another option.

S
 
I think s4 definitely has its place. I think the results are very dependent on diet, training etc as it's an androgen modulator and doesn't work through as many pathways as aas does. I guess depends on your goals etc. I hope I didn't give the wrong impression with my posts. I fully own that I haven't had my diet on point lately. I've really given s4 the worst conditions to work in and it's still given some actual results. To me that says it's valuable, but I'll have to give it more proper testing during pct and see how that goes.

All the best,

Jacob

Oh and I've heard vision problems from other from lower doses than 75 mg oddly enough. Time away from it seems to do the trick though. Clears up fine from what I've heard.
 
So, I'm getting into my 4th week (second week at 75 mg ed). I'm splitting the doses up into two. I've corrected my diet these last three days and as silly as it may sound I can see a difference already- possibly just less bloating due to a bit less protein overkill and far less fat in the diet. Anyhow, the only reason I'm updating this is to say that even though I've been stressed out and my calories are in the deficit and ketogenic, I handled some good weight (for me) on my workout today. I usually don't do barbell curls, have been sticking to dumbells for months. Usually 95 lbs for good form is about all I can muster with barbell (sure I can cheat 135+, but anyone can with enough momentum, ha!). Today I decided to bump it up to 115 out of the blue to see how I handled it, not perfect form but 8 pretty good reps. It went much easier than I expected. I noticed the same thing with bodyweight dips, seemed a bit easier this time.

I haven't made a not of strength gains with s4. So, noticing that today (again, while dieting and no carbs) was a pleasant surprise.


p.s. I feel silly posting my paultry curling poundage... So to balance that out I'll defend my strength and say I'm not so strong on curling, but pulling/back movements are where I can move some good weight- at least for my size. I can do 150+ lb dumbell rows with good form (down to the ground and up to my side- and I'm 6'2") for 6-10 reps depending on my energy levels. So, yeah. lol. I'm no beast, but I try.
 
I don't think I would ever mess with this stuff unless the vision problem with S4 is over stated. I mean it would be really scary if you permanently screwed up your eye sight.
 
Well, since I haven't had much if any real problem with vision, I'm not gonna worry. Last week I thought it was getting a bit longer of a transition from out in the sun to a dark room. But, that went away after taking sat and sun off. If it clears that quick I'm not that worried about it. Maybe I should be, I don't know.
 
So,

By taking the weekend off the vision problems were less? This could be important, possibly 5 days on, 2 off, staying at or below 75mg/ day with good diet and training may be the way to go.

Keep up the journal, it is a great resource!

S
 
Shit, I just wrote for 15-20 minutes and then the site/internet lost my post... sheesh. Just wanted to say about to start week 5. Sex drive is good, balls full size (sorry if too much info...) and orgasms are a bit better and last longer- though I haven't heard anyone else talk about this. Got some comments on my arms looking good (my arms suck, so I appreciated that comment!). Overall liking my results. Subtle but still recomping nicely.
 
Oh yeah, and you are right about the eyes Supreme. No problems to speak of at all at this point. I always take the two days off. I can tell a difference at the end of the week going from bright to dark, but no problems with night driving etc. Wouldn't really notice unless I was really paying attention.
 
Ok, I'm on my final week of this. I've stayed at 75 mg per day taking weekends off. Still no vision problems, just a slight difference still going from sunshine to dark- more than before I mean. And, that always clears after the two days off. There might not be much more to report as at the end of this week I begin my aas. During this whole time of using s4 I was not on any other hormone or anything- other than dhea at the beginning.

After adjusting my diet down initially by 500 calories I began to lose fat again (duh, right?). I have now adjusted calories down a bit further. But, my weight is staying the same (as when I began the s4) as I lose fat. This is what I've heard from others. And, again, like others, if I was comparing this to an aas cycle I might be underwhelmed. But, if I'm honest with myself, I gotta say I look good. I've definitely recomped as my waist is down and muscles look good and relatively full (again, not dbol/holding water full, but better than they should for low carbs!). In all honesty my training has been ok, but not what I'd call great. I've done every workout, pushed myself in the muggy summer heat as best I can, but it's not been my best training period. This is due to personal/work factors more than anything else. But, I gotta say I still look good! lol.

My waist has gone from 35.5" to 34" (which means about a 7.5 lb fat loss for me) and my weight has stayed basically nearly the same (if fluctuates between 203 and 210 depending on morning, night, high carb day etc.- anyhow pretty close to the same as when I began s4). Again, I know I'm not being scientific or anything. But, based on my measurements I'd say I'd lost 7.5 lbs of fat and gained 5 lbs of muscle over the course of 5 weeks. Not bad all things considered. \

I believe that a person could gain muscle and overall mass using s4, but my guess is that it would be similar to what I gained dieting. Why? Well, it's just a theory. But, s4 is an androgen receptor modulator. That means it "activates" the androgen receptor- tells it to express itself within the muscle itself. While an overall more anabolic environment (through a higher calorie diet) might lend itself to some greater muscle gains, it's not going to work in the same way as steroids -which are more about protein and other nutrient uptake within muscles, i.e. nutrient partitioning.

What I'm saying is that steroids "blow you up" because there is greater blood volume (which is anabolic in itself through nutrient delivery!), greater capacity to store carbs (especially with test and tren imo), and definitely more protein synthesis vs without them. In other words, steroids volumize and saturate the muscle with fluid and nutrients creating a "forced" anabolic environment. I think this is where we see our long term gains with juice use and why the guys who train hard, eat right, and have the best genetics still get the biggest on juice- because it simply "enhances" what you already have and are doing!

SARMS on the other hand are more subtle. They bind to and activate the androgen receptor in muscles giving them the "signal" to uptake nutrients, synthesize protein etc. Basically they give your body a preferential order to send nutrients to muscle by activating the receptor itself, not by overloading said muscle with hormones, blood, fluid and consequently nutrients. So, as long as your protein intake is more than adequate (as mine was throughout) and fat intake high enough to spare said protein, then I think you'll see muscle gains using s4 even when dieting.

Again, that's just my untested theory.
 
jacshelb said:
Ok, I'm on my final week of this. I've stayed at 75 mg per day taking weekends off. Still no vision problems, just a slight difference still going from sunshine to dark- more than before I mean. And, that always clears after the two days off. There might not be much more to report as at the end of this week I begin my aas. During this whole time of using s4 I was not on any other hormone or anything- other than dhea at the beginning.

After adjusting my diet down initially by 500 calories I began to lose fat again (duh, right?). I have now adjusted calories down a bit further. But, my weight is staying the same (as when I began the s4) as I lose fat. This is what I've heard from others. And, again, like others, if I was comparing this to an aas cycle I might be underwhelmed. But, if I'm honest with myself, I gotta say I look good. I've definitely recomped as my waist is down and muscles look good and relatively full (again, not dbol/holding water full, but better than they should for low carbs!). In all honesty my training has been ok, but not what I'd call great. I've done every workout, pushed myself in the muggy summer heat as best I can, but it's not been my best training period. This is due to personal/work factors more than anything else. But, I gotta say I still look good! lol.

My waist has gone from 35.5" to 34" (which means about a 7.5 lb fat loss for me) and my weight has stayed basically nearly the same (if fluctuates between 203 and 210 depending on morning, night, high carb day etc.- anyhow pretty close to the same as when I began s4). Again, I know I'm not being scientific or anything. But, based on my measurements I'd say I'd lost 7.5 lbs of fat and gained 5 lbs of muscle over the course of 5 weeks. Not bad all things considered. \

I believe that a person could gain muscle and overall mass using s4, but my guess is that it would be similar to what I gained dieting. Why? Well, it's just a theory. But, s4 is an androgen receptor modulator. That means it "activates" the androgen receptor- tells it to express itself within the muscle itself. While an overall more anabolic environment (through a higher calorie diet) might lend itself to some greater muscle gains, it's not going to work in the same way as steroids -which are more about protein and other nutrient uptake within muscles, i.e. nutrient partitioning.

What I'm saying is that steroids "blow you up" because there is greater blood volume (which is anabolic in itself through nutrient delivery!), greater capacity to store carbs (especially with test and tren imo), and definitely more protein synthesis vs without them. In other words, steroids volumize and saturate the muscle with fluid and nutrients creating a "forced" anabolic environment. I think this is where we see our long term gains with juice use and why the guys who train hard, eat right, and have the best genetics still get the biggest on juice- because it simply "enhances" what you already have and are doing!

SARMS on the other hand are more subtle. They bind to and activate the androgen receptor in muscles giving them the "signal" to uptake nutrients, synthesize protein etc. Basically they give your body a preferential order to send nutrients to muscle by activating the receptor itself, not by overloading said muscle with hormones, blood, fluid and consequently nutrients. So, as long as your protein intake is more than adequate (as mine was throughout) and fat intake high enough to spare said protein, then I think you'll see muscle gains using s4 even when dieting.

Again, that's just my untested theory.
Click to expand...


Thank you for taking the time to make this Journal it has helped shed some light on if I am ever going to run this product.
 
GREAT log man, really appreciate you taking the time to shed some light on this mysterious product... My question is , is it proven that it doesn't shut you down? Are you sure it's ok to run it on it's own with no PCT? Or for that matter, to use it as part of your PCT? Or are people just guessing here...
 
crulexis said:
GREAT log man, really appreciate you taking the time to shed some light on this mysterious product... My question is , is it proven that it doesn't shut you down? Are you sure it's ok to run it on it's own with no PCT? Or for that matter, to use it as part of your PCT? Or are people just guessing here...
Click to expand...

Anthony Roberts is saying its a must for PCT....I like it alone. But I dont use anything that shuts me down anymore.
 
This is all very helpful guys... I am awaiting my sarms-4 vile pretty soon... I'm combining that with pct, just to not tempt fate... I'm only going to do 20mg/day... and 1ml/day of tamox

I have a question though... I was going to go with high protein and a normal diet... Is there some other kind of diet I should follow while on this? My goal is to pack on more muscle and reduce fat.
 
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