Rippetoe on chest exercises

[herblcure]

Here is what I don't get. Muscle fiber, tissue, all that shit...relates back to science. Could you imagine if someone who could simply eat anything they saw and never gain a pound, wrote a book telling us that donuts and cookies are just as effective at losing weight as chicken and vegies.

Bringing things back to reality - the only argument here that could/should hold water is a scientific analysis of each muscle and how it best developes. I mean, jusat because one guy does not need flys does not mean we all do not need flys. And just because one guy says that 5x5 works best does not mean it will work the best for everyone.

What the hell is the argument about anyway. Do you really thing that one persons workout will work for everyone? How about this... When determining whether or not flys are useless, did anyone have a doctor monitor their actually tissue reaction during the workout? Did they monitor tears in the muscle fiber? So far, this has been an argument of I say you say I say etc...

Bullshit - there is a science to muscle growth - that is why we have so many bad ass chemicals that can lend helping hands. And just as doctors and scientists have created chems to help, they would also be able to create workouts based on our own development and not some general one.

With that said - good luck to all...

 

[PoweredUp]

Here is what I don't get. Muscle fiber, tissue, all that shit...relates back to science. Could you imagine if someone who could simply eat anything they saw and never gain a pound, wrote a book telling us that donuts and cookies are just as effective at losing weight as chicken and vegies.

Bringing things back to reality - the only argument here that could/should hold water is a scientific analysis of each muscle and how it best developes. I mean, jusat because one guy does not need flys does not mean we all do not need flys. And just because one guy says that 5x5 works best does not mean it will work the best for everyone.

What the hell is the argument about anyway. Do you really thing that one persons workout will work for everyone? How about this... When determining whether or not flys are useless, did anyone have a doctor monitor their actually tissue reaction during the workout? Did they monitor tears in the muscle fiber? So far, this has been an argument of I say you say I say etc...

Bullshit - there is a science to muscle growth - that is why we have so many bad ass chemicals that can lend helping hands. And just as doctors and scientists have created chems to help, they would also be able to create workouts based on our own development and not some general one.

With that said - good luck to all...

Actually, yes...they have done scientific studies that measure the relative overload intensity on muscle fibers. One in particular done by Pete Sisco's group found that the barbell bench press scored a perfect 100% and that same study also showed that the dumbbell fly measured only 45.5%. The incline bench press scored 53.8%, and just for informational purposes, the chest exercise that came last (the biggest waste of time and energy) was the dumbbell pullover at 12.8%.

AST Sports Science does more research than any company and here is there take on dumbbell flyes:

"Flat dumbbell flys are not a very efficient exercise for maximum muscle stimulation. Flat dumbbell flys are an isolation exercise and they limit the amount of overload you can use.

Compound exercises like flat dumbbell presses are much more effective for muscular strength and development."

So I'll say it again - if it isn't a barbell bench press, dumbbell bench press, or a weighted dip, then it is a waste of time in terms of developing the chest.

 

[lanny]

LOL!! no shit! u know ur stuff!!! haha! that outa keep ppl's mouth shut! good on ya!

 

[herblcure]

Actually, yes...they have done scientific studies that measure the relative overload intensity on muscle fibers. One in particular done by Pete Sisco's group found that the barbell bench press scored a perfect 100% and that same study also showed that the dumbbell fly measured only 45.5%. The incline bench press scored 53.8%, and just for informational purposes, the chest exercise that came last (the biggest waste of time and energy) was the dumbbell pullover at 12.8%.

AST Sports Science does more research than any company and here is there take on dumbbell flyes:

"Flat dumbbell flys are not a very efficient exercise for maximum muscle stimulation. Flat dumbbell flys are an isolation exercise and they limit the amount of overload you can use.

Compound exercises like flat dumbbell presses are much more effective for muscular strength and development."

So I'll say it again - if it isn't a barbell bench press, dumbbell bench press, or a weighted dip, then it is a waste of time in terms of developing the chest.

Thank you.. I will never argue with science..and now I hope others will also see the light! You rock for the post bro!

 

[PoweredUp]

Thank you.. I will never argue with science..and now I hope others will also see the light! You rock for the post bro!

I'm a scientist as well, and its all I care about in terms of how I train. Reading people say what worked for them, etc, etc doesn't really matter. Just show me the science and that's what I will follow. I take the same route with supplements. If it isn't protein, creatine, L-Glutamine, BCAAs, or a multi-vitamin then keep it the hell away from me. Those are the supplements that have actual scientifc studies from major universities showing some real benefit. Everything else like pro-hormones and nitric oxide is just money down the drain...

 

[djeclipse]

Bullshit - there is a science to muscle growth - that is why we have so many bad ass chemicals that can lend helping hands. And just as doctors and scientists have created chems to help, they would also be able to create workouts based on our own development and not some general one.

With that said - good luck to all...

I am sorry to say but these so called "doctors" and "scientists" have not created any of the bull shit supplements out there to help anyone. They have created that crap to make money.

And if they were to create a special scientist approved work out it would be oriented only to sell more of their bull shit products so they can make more money.

This is why 99.9% of the workouts in those bb mags are shit, they don't want you to know it is really this simple.

They want you to buy their sponcors product and buy into the latest BS workout to put 2" on your arms in just 10 days. But only if you take "super pump, L-pumpo and therma lean to-the-ma -X- YO! As these products are essential to muscle growth and fat burn... lol

Thank you.. I will never argue with science..and now I hope others will also see the light! You rock for the post bro!

Glad you have an open mind, if only more people were like you. But then again if they were there'd be a line up at the squat rack and I hate waiting

 

[djeclipse]

I'm a scientist as well, and its all I care about in terms of how I train. Reading people say what worked for them, etc, etc doesn't really matter. Just show me the science and that's what I will follow. I take the same route with supplements. If it isn't protein, creatine, L-Glutamine, BCAAs, or a multi-vitamin then keep it the hell away from me. Those are the supplements that have actual scientifc studies from major universities showing some real benefit. Everything else like pro-hormones and nitric oxide is just money down the drain...

On a side note, if your protein supplement already has L-Glutemine and amino acids in it, why do you take more of them?

 

[PoweredUp]

On a side note, if your protein supplement already has L-Glutemine and amino acids in it, why do you take more of them?

It may not be necessary in regards to the BCAAs, but I figure that it's better to be safe than sorry. As for L-Glutamine, I've noticed that when I take an excess amount I seem to recover much quicker from heavy workout sessions. As for protein, I am a pescetarian (a vegetarian who eats fish), so I often need a few shakes a day to get my total protein consumption up to 250 grams or so. Protein consumption is crucial just before and just after workout sessions, so I definitely have some whay at those times. I typically have egg protein when I wake up (mixed with soy milk) and I take some casein protein before bed.

 

[djeclipse]

So if you get excess of amino acids or L-Glutamine, what does your body do with the left over that it doesn't need/ use?

 

[lanny]

i dont understand. >.<