Rippetoe on chest exercises

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So if you get excess of amino acids or L-Glutamine, what does your body do with the left over that it doesn't need/ use?

Waste product

 

[djeclipse]

Waste product

It doesn't get stored as fat?

 

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It doesn't get stored as fat?

I've always read that any excess stuff like amino acids, vitamins, or creatine are excreted through the urine.

 

[MetalDead]

Actually, yes...they have done scientific studies that measure the relative overload intensity on muscle fibers. One in particular done by Pete Sisco's group found that the barbell bench press scored a perfect 100% and that same study also showed that the dumbbell fly measured only 45.5%. The incline bench press scored 53.8%, and just for informational purposes, the chest exercise that came last (the biggest waste of time and energy) was the dumbbell pullover at 12.8%.

AST Sports Science does more research than any company and here is there take on dumbbell flyes:

"Flat dumbbell flys are not a very efficient exercise for maximum muscle stimulation. Flat dumbbell flys are an isolation exercise and they limit the amount of overload you can use.

Compound exercises like flat dumbbell presses are much more effective for muscular strength and development."

So I'll say it again - if it isn't a barbell bench press, dumbbell bench press, or a weighted dip, then it is a waste of time in terms of developing the chest.

What about cable flys?

 

[tropo]

Here is what Jeff Willet (2X Team Universe Champion - all natural bodybuilder) says about flyes, and I agree with him completely:

"The first thing you need to ask yourself before choosing an exercise is: Will this provide maximum overload?

Flyes are an isolation movement for the chest because they remove the triceps and shoulders out of the movement. However, isolation reduces overload. Less overload means less muscle fiber stimulation.

Another reason people mistakenly do flyes is to shape the muscle. Let me make this perfectly clear, you cannot change the genetic shape of your muscles. You can make them bigger which may appear to change the shape, but you cannot change the genetically predetermined shape of your muscles.

Flyes are basically a worthless exercise in my book. You expend a lot of energy for a little overload. Flyes are not efficient."

I agree 100%. Apart from being totally useless, they put bad stress on the shoulder joint.

Most people fly like they're doing wide DB incline/flat presses anyway, so why even bother with it? I think it's some kind of holding onto the past that keeps this exercise in favour amongst a percentage of trainers.

One point that no one has mentioned: The fly doesn't offer any peak contraction, only load at stretch (thus making it very dangerous for the shoulder joint)....which makes it a useless isolation movement as well. As soon as the arms go past about 60% there's no load on the pecs at all.

I have no idea why anyone would favour a fly over the pec deck which offers tension through the full ROM as well as a great peak contraction.

 

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I have no idea why anyone would favour a fly over the pec deck which offers tension through the full ROM as well as a great peak contraction.

Here is what AST Sports Science (the same group that I previously quoted about dumbbell flyes) has said about the Pec Deck:

"This is the same as flyes only they have made a machine to do them on. A waste of time. Too much effort for too little overload. Leave this one to the Saturday morning fitness crowd."

 

[FriendlyCanadian]

Here is what AST Sports Science (the same group that I previously quoted about dumbbell flyes) has said about the Pec Deck:

"This is the same as flyes only they have made a machine to do them on. A waste of time. Too much effort for too little overload. Leave this one to the Saturday morning fitness crowd."

Now you're saying cable flys are useless too..

good lord..

how big are you guys? (I'm just curious)

also where are the sources on these "scientific evidence" are they academic?

more strength ='s in turn more size??? I think that is outright wrong.. most bodybuilders can't lift as much as powerlifters.. but are fucking huge in comparision.. so I'd def have to disagree there.

 

[Singleton]

Flyes I don't personally do (beyond the DC extreme stretch for chest), but rear delt work, biceps, calves, abs, hams, laterals, pushdowns all have a place. Not to mention all kinds of pre-rehab work for adductors, hips, glutes which you have to do if you don't want to crumble under a heavy workload.

Is this the one:-

Chest

Flat bench 90lb dumbbells chest high--lungs full of air--first 10 seconds
drop down into deepest stretch and then next 50 seconds really push the
stretch (this really, really hurts) but do it faithfully and come back and
post on the AE message board in 4 weeks and tell me if your chest isn't much
fuller and rounder

???

I like stretching on the Icarian dip stations, though they're a little too narrow.

BTW - Chest is more than one muscle. In fact, pecs are divided into 2 heads - upper and lower. There's the clavicular head (upper) and the sternal head (lower).

Both heads are fan-shaped. Origin is on the upper-arm bone, and many insertion points on the sternum (sternal head) and clavicle (clavicular head).

http://www.exrx.net/Lists/ExList/ChestWt.html

 

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Now you're saying cable flys are useless too...

Beyond useless...

how big are you guys?.

I'm 240 pounds. I'm mostly muscle, but I could stand to drop some fat around my mid-section.

also where are the sources on these "scientific evidence" are they academic?

AST Sports Science does tons of academic research and they post their findings from major university studies on their web site. Here is a good place to start:

www.ast-ss.com/research/cribb/research_reviews/cribb_review_main.asp

more strength ='s in turn more size??? I think that is outright wrong.. most bodybuilders can't lift as much as powerlifters.. but are fucking huge in comparision.. so I'd def have to disagree there.

That's because bodybuilding is all about aesthetics, which in turn means that they do steroid cycles like a mother fucker. I'm not saying that a powerlifter never touches anadrol, but a major aspect of bodybuilding is running one stack after another. Obviously, that is going to have a major effect on their muscle size and their overall physique when comparing them to powerlifters. Also, bodybuilders are extremely disciplined about their diet, whereas powerlifters often pay little attention to diet other than to ensure that they are getting enough protein. Take your average powerlifter, strip away all of their fat and you will see a ton of muscle underneath.

 

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Chest is more than one muscle. In fact, pecs are divided into 2 heads - upper and lower. There's the clavicular head (upper) and the sternal head (lower).

Both heads are fan-shaped. Origin is on the upper-arm bone, and many insertion points on the sternum (sternal head) and clavicle (clavicular head).

http://www.exrx.net/Lists/ExList/ChestWt.html

Yes, technically there are several muscles that make up the chest, but it is absolutely impossible to train only one of those muscles when weight training. The entire chest acts as one muscle when moving a load.