putting together my spring cycle

[stevesmi]

this one is gonna be fun. goal is to look better in the mirror, i don't pay attention to scales.

current stats 5 6 182 11% body fat .. this will be my 3rd tren run and i dunno 12th? 15th cycle? i lost count

var 50mg ED 1-6 (may go 8 weeks haven't decided yet)
tren E 125mg EOD 1-6
masteron (optional haven't decided yet)

caber half tab every 4 days
forma as directed
hcgenerate started week 3

(no i'm not running test with it this time around)

PCT

hcg kickstarting PCT 1000 iu's every 4 days
1-2 doses of HMG
clomid 12.5mg ED
forma as directed
unleashed bottle

would love to get a discussion going about the var/tren stack.. no one ever talks about it.. everyone loves tren/test and no love for tren/var

feel free to suggest anything. its not in stone yet, so i am all ears if someone thinks i should go 8 weeks with var, or increase the dose, etc etc.

 

[zwhit]

Why are you shooting the tren E eod? Why not twice a week or e3d? Seems like some unnecessary pinning. And why no test in this cycle? Why not at least a trt dose?

 

[stevesmi]

^^ I dont believe that you have to stack test with everything. if you run the proper ancillaries on you don't need test, i've ran plenty of cycles without test and we've had countless threads on this subject. my best cycle ever was tren only.

any form of tren usually should be pinned EOD. it doesn't have to be. but that is the best way to concentrate plasma levels. i probably will do the E every 2-3 days

 

[zwhit]

^^ I dont believe that you have to stack test with everything. if you run the proper ancillaries on you don't need test, i've ran plenty of cycles without test and we've had countless threads on this subject. my best cycle ever was tren only.

Even if you run the proper ancillaries, eventually you'll have no test in your system and I assume wouldn't feel your best. But anyway, I'm curious to see how it goes. There might be countless threads but not many people actually run cycles without some test anymore.

any form of tren usually should be pinned EOD. it doesn't have to be. but that is the best way to concentrate plasma levels. i probably will do the E every 2-3 days

Why should any form of tren be pinned EOD? That's the first I've ever heard of that. So by that logic, everything should be pinned ED, because that would give the most stable plasma levels. Not trying to derail your thread, just trying to understand your logic

.......

 

[kc17]

this one is gonna be fun. goal is to look better in the mirror, i don't pay attention to scales.

current stats 5 6 182 11% body fat .. this will be my 3rd tren run and i dunno 12th? 15th cycle? i lost count

var 50mg ED 1-6 (may go 8 weeks haven't decided yet)
tren E 125mg EOD 1-6
masteron (optional haven't decided yet)

caber half tab every 4 days
forma as directed
hcgenerate started week 3

(no i'm not running test with it this time around)

PCT

hcg kickstarting PCT 1000 iu's every 4 days
1-2 doses of HMG
clomid 12.5mg ED
forma as directed
unleashed bottle

would love to get a discussion going about the var/tren stack.. no one ever talks about it.. everyone loves tren/test and no love for tren/var

feel free to suggest anything. its not in stone yet, so i am all ears if someone thinks i should go 8 weeks with var, or increase the dose, etc etc.

I'd definetly run the Mast and run the var for the 8wks but why not test ? how about your libido mine will be completely gone if I dont run test..

 

[stevesmi]

......
Even if you run the proper ancillaries, eventually you'll have no test in your system and I assume wouldn't feel your best.
you will always have test in your system.. it is a myth that your test levels drop to 0.. also look how long i am running tren, why should i run a TRT dose of test when i am not gonna be on it for a long time? i cycle on, come off. then bridge. I felt fine running tren alone, don't buy into the internet myth out there that you have to run test with everything.. its bullshit. you are telling me if you run beastdrol for 4 weeks straight with no test you don't feel your best? or dbol? come on.

if you were to run tren for 3 months straight with no cabaser that would be a different story, but thats not what I am doing here.

But anyway, I'm curious to see how it goes. There might be countless threads but not many people actually run cycles without some test anymore.

i just ran a test only cycle. i am not anti-test. i have run several cycles with no test and I like to do this, i have a log up somewhere with before and after pics. i turned out fine test gives unwanted sides too just like any other roid.

Why should any form of tren be pinned EOD? That's the first I've ever heard of that. So by that logic, everything should be pinned ED, because that would give the most stable plasma levels. Not trying to derail your thread, just trying to understand your logic

no i never said everything should be pinned ED.. i said tren should be pinned often. read this by needto, it explains it further.. scroll down to dosages. of course you can pin whenever you want, but there are better ways to do things. The Trenobolone Experience by Needtogetaas - Need To Build Muscle Inc. Official Blog

your not derailing my thread, these long threads are the best.. i want to hear everyones opinion, no one should be afraid to discuss
.

in bold

 

[Judo Tom]

if you are gonna skip the test.. and im guessing you are then i would think about running unleashed the entire time and maybe up the formastanzol as well.

I would also start the hcg the last 2 weeks of the cycle.. but whatever works for you

hmm what do i think about var/tren/mast the only thing missing is primo! seriously that will be a great cycle 3 of the best compounds out there IMO

id also think about staggering things a bit.. or at least running the var/mast 8 weeks.. or until the 8 week mark to help let the tren clear

how are you going to be eating.. lol looking good in the mirror could mean.. eating big to get bigger.. or eating less to get leaner.

either way good luck

 

[stevesmi]

I'd definetly run the Mast and run the var for the 8wks but why not test ? how about your libido mine will be completely gone if I dont run test..

I am running this cycle for bodybuilding purposes, not for libido reasons.

and i promise you if you run the proper ancillaries during the cycle you will be fine. caber will counter act any problems with libido and you will sleep like a baby.

 

[stevesmi]

if you are gonna skip the test.. and im guessing you are then i would think about running unleashed the entire time and maybe up the formastanzol as well.

caber with the forma will nail it .. i also plan on running gear

I would also start the hcg the last 2 weeks of the cycle.. but whatever works for you

yup that is what i am gonna do. kickstart the PCT with hcg

hmm what do i think about var/tren/mast the only thing missing is primo! seriously that will be a great cycle 3 of the best compounds out there IMO

one day man, right now i am not gonna spend my wad on such a cycle.. if i decide to compete in a few years then yes that would be a sick cycle. i love primo, but i don't love its effect on my wallet

id also think about staggering things a bit.. or at least running the var/mast 8 weeks.. or until the 8 week mark to help let the tren clear

yes that is what i am gonna do. probably gonna run the masteron and var together to allow tren clearance.

how are you going to be eating.. lol looking good in the mirror could mean.. eating big to get bigger.. or eating less to get leaner.

this is up to debate. i ran a catabolic diet on my last tren cycle cause it murdered my appetite and i really leaned out. when i stacked dbol with the tren my strength went nuts. i am probably gonna not be eating very much since tren kills my appetite. i wouldn't mind shredding up 2% of body fat

either way good luck

bold

 

[zwhit]

I know that your test levels aren't going to drop to zero. But a test level in the double digits is something I'd like to avoid.

Just sayin'

 

[LetsGrow]

Sounds really solid. You think of adding something like albuterol in there for some additional cutting and help with your hdl's?

 

[Judo Tom]

imo when you are on a cycle like that it is worth eating a ton of calories and allow the aas to build muscle and build as much of it as you can.

if tren kills the appetite I would do a bunch of shakes and 'snacks' that you can eat with no appetite.. stuff that tastes really good and still loaded w/ good cals...

i got some recipes if you want some help w/ things like that

 

[stevesmi]

I know that your test levels aren't going to drop to zero. But a test level in the double digits is something I'd like to avoid.

Just sayin'

this theory is up for debate. i haven't seen one shred of evidence that this happens after a short 4-6 week cycle and trust me we have had tons of threads about this. if this was true then how come guys that run beastdrol or dbol for 4 weeks gain like 25 pounds on their bench? they accomplished that will double digit test levels? hmmmmmm...

when you are finishing up a longer cycle with no kickstart going into PCT naked, and you have small amounts of a compound lingering in the body that is the only time you will see your test levels in double digits. its happened to me ONE TIME and i always run bloods .. that was coming off a deca cycle where yes i ran test with it.. it doesn't make a bit of difference, either way you can expect a crash coming off cycle.

testosterone is suppressive also, severely suppressive.

when you are on ANYTHING whether it be test or not test your LH drops to near zero after months on. not after 6 weeks.

if you run the proper ancillaries while on. i'm talking hcgenerate, hcg, caber, etc. your nuts will stay plump, your prolactin will stay in range, your progresterone will stay in range etc.

if you run a 6 month long tren cycle with no caber, no hcg, no nothing then your nuts will turn to raisins and you can make this arguement. again this is NOT what I am doing. i am running a short cycle, running the proper ancillaries, and running a proper PCT.

if you read my tren log i post my blood work after cycle. i rebounded very quickly doing exactly what I am saying. blood work tells the tale, not just internet myths bantered online .. so again lets see some blood work proving this .. UA Iron and I got into a debate a few months back and he has yet to bring forward anything proving his theory that you must always run test, if someone can bring it forward I am all ears.

 

[stevesmi]

Sounds really solid. You think of adding something like albuterol in there for some additional cutting and help with your hdl's?

nope, gonna get in some cardio.. don't plan on using anything like that or stims or anything.

 

[stevesmi]

imo when you are on a cycle like that it is worth eating a ton of calories and allow the aas to build muscle and build as much of it as you can.

absolutely i always get in ample calories, carbs and protein no matter what.

 

[zwhit]

this theory is up for debate. i haven't seen one shred of evidence that this happens after a short 4-6 week cycle and trust me we have had tons of threads about this. if this was true then how come guys that run beastdrol or dbol for 4 weeks gain like 25 pounds on their bench? they accomplished that will double digit test levels? hmmmmmm...

when you are finishing up a longer cycle with no kickstart going into PCT naked, and you have small amounts of a compound lingering in the body that is the only time you will see your test levels in double digits. its happened to me ONE TIME and i always run bloods .. that was coming off a deca cycle where yes i ran test with it.. it doesn't make a bit of difference, either way you can expect a crash coming off cycle.

testosterone is suppressive also, severely suppressive.

when you are on ANYTHING whether it be test or not test your LH drops to near zero after months on. not after 6 weeks.

if you run the proper ancillaries while on. i'm talking hcgenerate, hcg, caber, etc. your nuts will stay plump, your prolactin will stay in range, your progresterone will stay in range etc.

if you run a 6 month long tren cycle with no caber, no hcg, no nothing then your nuts will turn to raisins and you can make this arguement. again this is NOT what I am doing. i am running a short cycle, running the proper ancillaries, and running a proper PCT.

Yeah, you're right. 6 weeks probably won't be enough time to put your test in the double digits. I definitely wouldn't run it without at the very least a trt dose of test though, but I like my libido to stay at least where its at off cycle. Are you going to get bloods done on cycle? You could put this debate to rest with a blood test toward the end of your cycle when you're still on some compound, not allowing your test to rebound at all.

 

[stevesmi]

Yeah, you're right. 6 weeks probably won't be enough time to put your test in the double digits. I definitely wouldn't run it without at the very least a trt dose of test though, but I like my libido to stay at least where its at off cycle. Are you going to get bloods done on cycle? You could put this debate to rest with a blood test toward the end of your cycle when you're still on some compound, not allowing your test to rebound at all.

yes I am.. i will run bloods deep into the cycle. but keep in mind i am doing what many guys don't do.. that is run caber, hcg, hcgenerate, forma.. that makes a huge difference. i am combating prolactin, aiding sleep, aiding libido, keeping my nuts plump, and combating estrogen (although tren/var won't require estrogen control the forma does other things as well like fat burning and progesterone control) with these compounds during cycle.

there is a great thread up somewhere where i debated UA Iron and he literally spent days researching online trying to dispute what i was saying and wasn't able to lol. he is a smart dude though and much respect to him, but you cannot deny the androgenic and anabolic properties of tren alone. you just don't need test with it to grow and get stronger. do they give cows test along with finaplix ? nope.

again i am not argueing that test doesn't boost libido.. test + tren shot my libido to the moon, i felt like a rabbit 24/7. and if libido was important i would throw in test. but it isn't... anyone who wants a crazy libido should stack test with tren, i won't argue that! and i would never tell anyone to run tren or deca without caber or prami.

 

[zwhit]

yes I am.. i will run bloods deep into the cycle. but keep in mind i am doing what many guys don't do.. that is run caber, hcg, hcgenerate, forma.. that makes a huge difference. i am combating prolactin, aiding sleep, aiding libido, keeping my nuts plump, and combating estrogen (although tren/var won't require estrogen control the forma does other things as well like fat burning and progesterone control) with these compounds during cycle.

there is a great thread up somewhere where i debated UA Iron and he literally spent days researching online trying to dispute what i was saying and wasn't able to lol. he is a smart dude though and much respect to him, but you cannot deny the androgenic and anabolic properties of tren alone. you just don't need test with it to grow and get stronger. do they give cows test along with finaplix ? nope.

again i am not argueing that test doesn't boost libido.. test + tren shot my libido to the moon, i felt like a rabbit 24/7. and if libido was important i would throw in test. but it isn't... anyone who wants a crazy libido should stack test with tren, i won't argue that! and i would never tell anyone to run tren or deca without caber or prami.

maybe the HCG will be enough to keep your test levels in the normal range. keep us updated with the bloods when you run them. I'm curious about the tren/no test cycle and how you feel while on.

You should be able to get jacked on that cycle, no doubt.

 

[Arabian]

Looks good Steve, I would run the Var and Tren out to 8 weeks and the mast to 14 at 400 to 600 per week. I am currently running Tren A with the Mast and I like you, look in the mirrow and not the scales and I like the results off of this run however I have Test E in at 750 per week. Also, you are spot on in Tren EOD due to maintaining proper blood levels due to its short half life. I have run it both ways EOD and Every 3rd to 4th day and I have seen the most dramatic body changes running tren ace EOD. Best of luck to you.

 

[stevesmi]

^^^ thanks arabian.. how many mg's you run of var on your cycle? i am still debating 50 or 60mg.

 

[stevesmi]

maybe the HCG will be enough to keep your test levels in the normal range.

its really about a smoother recovery when you come off. much easier to recover when you have plump nuts than when you have raisins

yes i will run bloods, and i will be using hcgenerate during cycle and saving the hcg and HMG for the end of the cycle going into PCT. it will be a great way to see how hcgenerate works as well with real blood results. just another example of what I do for you guys on here

 

[Arabian]

^^^ thanks arabian.. how many mg's you run of var on your cycle? i am still debating 50 or 60mg.

I run var at 60 to 80mg per day. 50mg is usually to weak for me, however for your size I would start at 60 and increase if need be.

 

[thelocal]

interesting..im following this

 

[hydez27]

Looks good steve best of luck bro keep a log when u start


Pain is temporary, glory is forever,
Pm me for information on ntbm products and discounts
NTBM Toll Free Number: ( 1-855-236-6987 )

 

[ledhead]

Looks good to me, but you know me, I would run it a little longer.. But you know what you are doing...

 

[psizzle_8]

Steve, Arabian, good to see two of my favorite guys still killin it! Good luck to you both, I'll most certainly be following.

 

[C0LUMB0]

steve bro, you know how to cycle and how to diet , so i aint going to give you advice on this buddy.
i have never used var but i hear that 60-80mg is gtg.
my last cutter was 8 weeks of test prop, mast and tren Ace all at 100mg EOD - with a calories deficit on this stack my body really changed shape. definition ,hardness and veins ...
if you are going to shoot the tren EOD i think you might as well go with the short ester but thats upto you.

2 questions for you :

i like your pct and am interested to hear your dosing and pinning schedule on the HMG ?

are you sticking with push,pull,legs 3x10 or what will your training look like ?


good luck and enjoy the cycle .

 

[gymjunkie09]

^^^ thanks arabian.. how many mg's you run of var on your cycle? i am still debating 50 or 60mg.

I took arabians advice and I'm running var at 80mg ed for 8 weeks, just started on monday I will keep you posted. I"m adding tren ace in at 50mg ed starting week 5......first go with tren, running primo and mast as well with low dose test

 

[RADAR]

Well heres my opinion, I would run HCG starting at wk 3-4 up to PCT
Then after the cycle start PCT ,add HCGenerate with what you got, plus the effect of var will be demimished somewhat so i would add it the last 8 wks of the cycle to polish it off,makes no sense to run it at the beginning.

 

[stevesmi]

i like your pct and am interested to hear your dosing and pinning schedule on the HMG ?

I will run 2 doses of HMG between last shot of HCG and when i start my SERM. i think with tren it will really help jumpstart things. my last couple tren cycles i did that and i recovered much faster combining hcg and HMG like that.

are you sticking with push,pull,legs 3x10 or what will your training look like ?

still gonna stay with push/pull/legs until i feel like my gains are slowing down.


good luck and enjoy the cycle .

thanks this cycle won't start for a little while, i want to 100% dedicate to it.. its gonna be my best one ever. will followup with pics after its done.

 

[Judo Tom]

I know you 'cycle' your supss.. curious to what you will run while on this cycle and if you have anything planned for pre/post cycle supps.

Good Luck with this one!

 

[zwhit]

thanks this cycle won't start for a little while, i want to 100% dedicate to it.. its gonna be my best one ever. will followup with pics after its done.

I thought your first cycle with tren was last summer. How many tren cycles have you ran since then?

You should be super jacked if you've run a couple cycles of tren since then. Post up some pics bro.

 

[stevesmi]

I thought your first cycle with tren was last summer. How many tren cycles have you ran since then?

You should be super jacked if you've run a couple cycles of tren since then. Post up some pics bro.

i have pics on my profile page.

i look good, but I am no where close to where i want to be nor am i happy. who knows how good my genetics can take me though, i always was the skinny kid in school growing up but i was fast.. so i have good genetics with some things but i also have bad genetics too with others.

if i cant get this bullshit over with and focus on this sport 100% that would be nice.. hard when you run 2 businesses though and surrounded by incompetent people.

how bout yourself, lets see some pics bro.

 

[stevesmi]

I know you 'cycle' your supss.. curious to what you will run while on this cycle and if you have anything planned for pre/post cycle supps.

Good Luck with this one!

isolation and gear are definates i will stack .. i drink some isolation before bed usually. tastes pretty good

but my main supplement is WHOLE FOODS.. i have a vegetable garden that i eat from daily.. 100% organic, even the soil i used is organic. i also have countless fruit trees.

i'm actually gonna start a thread up soon with pics of it to show how easy it is to do. veggies from the store (especially organic) go bad so fast. having a garden is a huge advantage and cheaper as well. in my neck of the woods i can grow year round pretty much. but i know most of you guys can't grow until the spring which is when i will put it up.

always helping people out

 

[zwhit]

i have pics on my profile page.

i look good, but I am no where close to where i want to be nor am i happy. who knows how good my genetics can take me though, i always was the skinny kid in school growing up but i was fast.. so i have good genetics with some things but i also have bad genetics too with others.

if i cant get this bullshit over with and focus on this sport 100% that would be nice.. hard when you run 2 businesses though and surrounded by incompetent people.

huh? I was just wondering how many tren cycles you've run, since your first one was last summer.

 

[zwhit]

there's a pic on my profile page also...

 

[stevesmi]

huh? I was just wondering how many tren cycles you've run, since your first one was last summer.

my original post said i ran 2 tren cycles. this will be my 3rd.

my first tren cycle was last spring. i have a log up it started April.. 2nd one was in the fall..

there is no way i would run tren during the summer.. under no circumstance. I live in FL bro. heat index is 105 daily from June till Sept.

 

[zwhit]

my original post said i ran 2 tren cycles. this will be my 3rd.

my first tren cycle was last spring. i have a log up it started April.. 2nd one was in the fall..

there is no way i would run tren during the summer.. under no circumstance. I live in FL bro. heat index is 105 daily from June till Sept.

cool, thought you might have some updated pics from the most recent tren cycle.

I ran tren (1st and only) last summer and MIGHT run it again this summer at a much leaner starting point. I just kept water with me at all times. Drank at least 1.5 gal/day. I live in south GA, btw. Usually 100+ all summer here too.

Tren makes my hair fallout, so I'm leaning toward just running test/EQ/maybe low dose Mast

 

[stevesmi]

^^^ I am too hairy to take pics after every cycle. every time i shave my body i get tons of ingrown hairs. but I promise after this cycle I will put up updated pics. I am probably down 1.5% on the body fat now since that pic which was last winter. i remember cause i was freezing my ass off on the beach. my after tren pics are somewhere on my profile or on my tren log i put up last spring, i did look kinda bloated though cause i stacked tren with dbol/test... last time around i ran tren by itself with some mast thrown in.

yeah the worst side i get from tren is de-hydration. no matter how much i drink i still feel thirsty. i get gallons of the sports drinks from the health food stores and stock up and that helps. but with or without tren the summers are non stop HOT and its brutal.

 

[UA_Iron]

yes I am.. i will run bloods deep into the cycle. but keep in mind i am doing what many guys don't do.. that is run caber, hcg, hcgenerate, forma.. that makes a huge difference. i am combating prolactin, aiding sleep, aiding libido, keeping my nuts plump, and combating estrogen (although tren/var won't require estrogen control the forma does other things as well like fat burning and progesterone control) with these compounds during cycle.

there is a great thread up somewhere where i debated UA Iron and he literally spent days researching online trying to dispute what i was saying and wasn't able to lol. he is a smart dude though and much respect to him, but you cannot deny the androgenic and anabolic properties of tren alone. you just don't need test with it to grow and get stronger. do they give cows test along with finaplix ? nope.

again i am not argueing that test doesn't boost libido.. test + tren shot my libido to the moon, i felt like a rabbit 24/7. and if libido was important i would throw in test. but it isn't... anyone who wants a crazy libido should stack test with tren, i won't argue that! and i would never tell anyone to run tren or deca without caber or prami.

I never got back to you with a good answer, lol. I'm still digging for the answer to be honest, just with less fervor than before.

I did post on another thread that Tren is currently being studied as a replacement androgen for andropause and the results are good... which basically supports the questions you asked.

Some other questions I have for you:
1. Are you worried about the potential heart valve implications of cabergoline?

"In conclusion, our study showed that treatment with either pergolide or cabergoline, particularly at daily doses greater than 3 mg and for periods of 6 months or longer, was associated with a substantially increased risk of newly diagnosed cardiac-valve regurgitation.

I know cabergoline increases sex drive, has some other good benefits... But these risks, with the increase in blood pressure from AAS use and other strain *could* make the sides even worse. Tren kills cardio, do we know why? Cabergoline could potentially reduce cardiac output (valve not fully closing during contraction phases of the heart)

I'm just asking a question here, I'm not a doctor by any means.


2. Are you avoiding prami over dostinex for a specific reason? (I honestly couldnt get through the sides of pramipexole, dreaming in cartoons in a non-sleep kind of daze...)

3. I always like the idea of running masteron with the progestin compounds (hell even test too). Binding affects similar to winny to the progesterone receptor minus the joint pain - I feel like I can avoid most AI's this way. This is all if your hairline can tolerate it.

4. Tren E on an eod injection schedule? This will theoretically keep blood levels more stable (think of a sine curve with a smaller amplitude-higher frequency). But you might be splitting hairs at this point?

5. Are you running GH?

6. I like 80-100mg var/day. According to Nelson this is very "dangerous" though... haven't really been convinced it is though...

 

[UA_Iron]

i have pics on my profile page.

i look good, but I am no where close to where i want to be nor am i happy. who knows how good my genetics can take me though, i always was the skinny kid in school growing up but i was fast.. so i have good genetics with some things but i also have bad genetics too with others.

if i cant get this bullshit over with and focus on this sport 100% that would be nice.. hard when you run 2 businesses though and surrounded by incompetent people.

how bout yourself, lets see some pics bro.

Work is always the killer bro. I feel ya there. Having your own business let alone 2 is even rougher. How do you still find time to workout?

Shit, I'm single, dont even watch TV and I dont have enough time to do what I want in a day - let alone be a mod somewhere as big as EF.

 

[stevesmi]

^^^ i dont watch tv either.

1 hour a day it dedicated to the gym.

owning a business sucks when you are working 50 hours a week and just breaking even. and people still bitch to you and think you are making money cause they don't know anything about how business works.

anyway i got some good feedback, thanks everyone. gonna close this sucker down and then put up a new one when the time comes in a couple months