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Past Lives
- Thread starter velvett
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Longhorn85
New member
You talkin' bout reincarnation?
needtogetarmy
CEO of Project Mayhem
I believe in it but I do not give much credence to some who claim they are famous etc.
Carl Jung wrote extensively about the collective group subconscious. In sum, (and I am not going straight off his theory - this is a mix of that and my own) most humans are linked to a deep psychological pool of energy. Some of us can connect to this energy and view things such as past lives, or we have ESP, or other psychic powers.
I believe there is a possibility of having a past life. There is no scientific proof to the contrary and in fact there have been more scientific studies documenting psychic phenomena than scientific studies debunking it. Additionally, there is a possibility that some people are simply connecting with the pool of psychic energy and are viewing the lives of others, i.e. it is not really their past life they are connecting with.
I believe in this stuff, I have been to the Rhine Center in NC and met others like me. I myself have had experiences that I cannot otherwise explain.
The truth is out there. People just need to look.
Carl Jung wrote extensively about the collective group subconscious. In sum, (and I am not going straight off his theory - this is a mix of that and my own) most humans are linked to a deep psychological pool of energy. Some of us can connect to this energy and view things such as past lives, or we have ESP, or other psychic powers.
I believe there is a possibility of having a past life. There is no scientific proof to the contrary and in fact there have been more scientific studies documenting psychic phenomena than scientific studies debunking it. Additionally, there is a possibility that some people are simply connecting with the pool of psychic energy and are viewing the lives of others, i.e. it is not really their past life they are connecting with.
I believe in this stuff, I have been to the Rhine Center in NC and met others like me. I myself have had experiences that I cannot otherwise explain.
The truth is out there. People just need to look.
needtogetarmy
CEO of Project Mayhem
Raptorex
New member
Velvett,
I have spent much of the past year reading and listening to audio books on timeless wisdom from 50 great books of inner discovery, enlightenment, & purpose.
In summary; it explores the root beliefs of many of the worlds most enlightened people thru history. It seems to me that a common theme among these beliefs is of more that we are energy in a shell that gets transformed from childhood to old age. Imagine your thoughts were once inside a baby; now they are in a woman, and someday in an elderly woman. Thus; I do believe we are "Spriritual beings; on a human journey" as many throughout history have suggested.
Food for thought.
I have spent much of the past year reading and listening to audio books on timeless wisdom from 50 great books of inner discovery, enlightenment, & purpose.
In summary; it explores the root beliefs of many of the worlds most enlightened people thru history. It seems to me that a common theme among these beliefs is of more that we are energy in a shell that gets transformed from childhood to old age. Imagine your thoughts were once inside a baby; now they are in a woman, and someday in an elderly woman. Thus; I do believe we are "Spriritual beings; on a human journey" as many throughout history have suggested.
Food for thought.
needtogetarmy
CEO of Project Mayhem
velvett said:
A good book I read was The Mutant Down Under which was written by a girl called Marlo Morgan and she lived with the aboriginals in Australia for a while and she claims they could communicate via telepathy.
It made some sense to me that they would have that ability because for us, our environment of materialism, telephones, the interest, working 9/5 etc. (or modern environment) tends not to develop the inner powers we may have.
http://www.amazon.com/Mutant-Message-Under-Marlo-Morgan/dp/0060926317
Just food for thought...
wishful thinking on people's parts.
Just because there is no scientific evidence to the contrary of something, doesn't mean its likely at all. Think of all the things that there is no scientific evidence against?
I could tell you I had a huge diamond burried in my backyard, or that there is a magical teapot orbiting the earth. You can't prove me wrong, but does that make it likely or plausible? No.
Just because there is no scientific evidence to the contrary of something, doesn't mean its likely at all. Think of all the things that there is no scientific evidence against?
I could tell you I had a huge diamond burried in my backyard, or that there is a magical teapot orbiting the earth. You can't prove me wrong, but does that make it likely or plausible? No.
vixensghost
New member
I often go to new places and get the "feeling" I've been there before. Or, meet new people who I feel I've met before too. It's an odd sensation that leaves me wondering...
I'm on the fence.
I'm on the fence.
needtogetarmy
CEO of Project Mayhem
Lestat said:
Of course, but there is scientific proof that things like ESP exist.
It is equivalent to you saying you have a huge diamond buried in your back yard and I come up with a sonorgram and confirm what you believe.
digimon7068
New member
i'm ignorant and apathetic. . .
I have a basic philosophy, it's either reincarnation or nothing, pffffft, big dirt nap. Nothing else makes sense.
Since energy cannot be destroyed, and the essence of us, our "Soul" if you will, is made of sometype of energy, the most logical thing would be reuse of "human essence." And the universe is logical, believe it or not. We just don't quite have the intellect to grasp the big picture to be able to SEE the logic (kind of right up there with telling a pesky little kid "you wouldn't understand.")
Since energy cannot be destroyed, and the essence of us, our "Soul" if you will, is made of sometype of energy, the most logical thing would be reuse of "human essence." And the universe is logical, believe it or not. We just don't quite have the intellect to grasp the big picture to be able to SEE the logic (kind of right up there with telling a pesky little kid "you wouldn't understand.")
A "soul" is a man made concept.musclemom said:
Another instance of humans WANTING to believe there is more to them than there is. Do monkey's have souls?
Our consciousness is ENTIRELY dependent on the brain. That much we DO know. Without the brain, there is no YOU. IF you disable your brain, you lose your consciousness, your soul, your essence.
This isn't supposed to be a debate thread, Lestat. It's supposed to be an opinion poll, only. I gave my opinion, and why I feel the I do, and I went into slightly more detail in my K message to you. If you want to discuss it further you're more than welcome to PM meLestat said:
We are more than our brain, and body, and THIS existance. You don't even KNOW what this existance is or it's purpose, or what it's all about. Shit, I don't even know, and I've been studying it since I was younger than you are now. But I have enough experience to realize that I don't even come close to knowing a fraction of the answers. So IMO, to make a blanket, black or white statement that eliminates all possibility of other answers is the height of egoism. You don't KNOW, neither do I, neither does anyone else.
As for monkeys having souls, EVERYTHING has a soul, including plants. Soul is another word for life energy. Tell me something, if there are no souls, why can't doctors take a perfectly healthy dead body, dead for more than, say 10 minutes but less than an hour, still nice and fresh and reasonably oxygenated, and bring it to life? They can't, they never will be able to. We are MORE than the sum of our parts.
says who? I understand the human nature/need to want to think there is something more. This is something uniquely human. No other animals really care. Its a function of our giant frontal cortex, the center of higher thought.MightyMouse69 said:
Once you start opening the door for the possibility of sometihng for which there is no evidence, you open the door for MILLIONS of outlandish and outright ridiculous suppositions. Scientology for example. You can't prove it wrong, so does that make it write.
I sound definitive, but only in the context of now. I use all of the information we have to date to base my assumptions and opinions on. I fully reserve the right to change them as we get more information, but in the meantime, unlike most people, I don't HAVE to make up some explanation. That seems to cause more trouble than its worth (traditionally) don't you think?
Keep in mind, before people understood why a volcano erupted, or why a Tsunami hit the shores, people assumed it was some "god" pulling deliberate strings. Now that we understand these phenomena, we realize how asinine the other explanations were. Do I blame people for making up their own version of reality? No, they needed SOME explanation, right or wrong, and that is exactly what people do today with regards to the "soul" and reincarnation.
What happens to your pet dog when he/she dies? I can't say for certain, but I can say with relative confidence that whatever happens to that dog and its essence is exactly what happens to us. Certainly not something to worry or fret over, but many people do.
Mavafanculo
New member
velvett said:
you already know what I think on this
Mavafanculo
New member
on the serious side, how would reincarnation work?
did the universe stop making new "souls" to re-circulate at some point and every newborn is a recycled soul now?
or is there a quota for new souls each year to add in with the re-cycled souls?
depressing as it is, imo we're an accident of dna configuration, exist for a really short period of time, then we expire. The end.
did the universe stop making new "souls" to re-circulate at some point and every newborn is a recycled soul now?
or is there a quota for new souls each year to add in with the re-cycled souls?
depressing as it is, imo we're an accident of dna configuration, exist for a really short period of time, then we expire. The end.
There's no such thing as a soul or spirit separate from the living body. What we think of as the "human soul" is nothing more than organic brain function. There are no spirits, no afterlife. It's high time that people started accepting the fact that we're animals.
needtogetarmy
CEO of Project Mayhem
Lestat said:
Exactly how many research have you actually performed regarding the paranormal? How many books have you read? How many seminars have you attended? None I assume, because you are making conclusive statement without stating any facts to support your arguments.
If it is all bunk the head to the Rhine Center site I posted, read a few of the numerous studies that have been published, meet with people who have such psychic powers, then you can make a conclusion based upon some facts, rather than make a blank statement pulled from out of nowhere.
I have first hand personal knowledge regarding this material. My grandmother was gifted and somehow I am too. I have seen glimpse of the future and literally experienced things before they have happened. I have had vivid dreams that have literally come true. Mere coincidence? Perhaps, or perhaps there is something else out there that explains it all.
Also, read up in the USSR's and the CIA's remote viewing programs they established in the 1950's (which lasted officially up until the 1970's). Some of the results of the tests they did were amazing.
Whether or not we have a soul is another issue. I do know that our bodies are comprised of energy and that energy that is never destroyed. It simply changes form. What the form is after death I do not know. It could be a soul, it may be something else. I think is it arrogant, and ignorant, to presuppose that nothing exists, especially when other studies out there have proven conclusively more is going on in life than we think.
I don't fret what happens when we die, but because I am a sentient being, I am interested.
Besides, I am going to defeat death anyway: www.alcor.org (another topic for another thread)
Mavafanculo said:
That's my biggest problem with the concept - it's like there would be a shortage somehow.
Something about the idea of energy works for me though but I don't know the how either.
I like science because it's easier to fit everything in a neat box but even then there are things that happen that just do.
I have had a few weird things happen that makes me wonder about all sorts of things and while I would love to be able to have proof of something either way but sometimes you just have to keep an open mind about anything that might happen or not at all.
Hope that makes sense.
SO yeah - I'm hard pressed to side totally either way.
Oh and as for wishful thinking, I don't really think of or care about "coming back" and I'm certainly not looking for a longer life or another chance but am I quite curious about those that have left and what they may or may have left behind.
all the whey
New member
blueta2 said:
Stilleto doesn't have a soul.
all the whey
New member
blueta2 said:
It isn't.
But, it seems like it is stilleto's favorite color.
S
Spartacus
Guest
rightLestat said:
well there is half of your problem, no one really agrees on the definition of Soul. Many people believe a soul is unique to humans.blueta2 said:
And what is "life energy" does a brain dead person with a functioning heart and lungs (through machine help) still have life energy?
Does a flame have life energy?
If we are going to speculate and make up subjective definitions as we go then what is to stop people from making up anything.
blueta2
New member
Lestat said:
Of course a person who has no brain function has energy. We are not our bodies. We are not flesh and bone, we are energy. Light, fire, water everything is energy.
Humans have senses that can detect only FEW actual energies, there are energies we can't see. Because we can't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
yes I've done some reading on the subject, enough to know that there is no evidence for any paranormal activity.The Old Vet said:Exactly how many research have you actually performed regarding the paranormal? How many books have you read? How many seminars have you attended? None I assume, because you are making conclusive statement without stating any facts to support your arguments.
If it is all bunk the head to the Rhine Center site I posted, read a few of the numerous studies that have been published, meet with people who have such psychic powers, then you can make a conclusion based upon some facts, rather than make a blank statement pulled from out of nowhere.
I have first hand personal knowledge regarding this material. My grandmother was gifted and somehow I am too. I have seen glimpse of the future and literally experienced things before they have happened. I have had vivid dreams that have literally come true. Mere coincidence? Perhaps, or perhaps there is something else out there that explains it all.
Also, read up in the USSR's and the CIA's remote viewing programs they established in the 1950's (which lasted officially up until the 1970's). Some of the results of the tests they did were amazing.
Whether or not we have a soul is another issue. I do know that our bodies are comprised of energy and that energy that is never destroyed. It simply changes form. What the form is after death I do not know. It could be a soul, it may be something else. I think is it arrogant, and ignorant, to presuppose that nothing exists, especially when other studies out there have proven conclusively more is going on in life than we think.
I don't fret what happens when we die, but because I am a sentient being, I am interested.
Besides, I am going to defeat death anyway: www.alcor.org (another topic for another thread)
What you see if people taking experiences, usually wholly sujective (like a vivid dream) and making their own assumptions and interpretations and stating them as fact.
ESP for example has been debunked numerous times. Try reading "Why people believe weird things" and you will see exactly how and why humans believe things although all evidence points to the contrary. There have been NUMEROUS studies, tests, and control groups done on almost every field of paranomal activity. From what I have seen its just a bunch of wishful thinking.
Lestat said:
If I told someone like you 150 years ago that I'd be able to take your picture and send it through the air and have it end up in London, Moscow, and New York in less than 10 minutes, chances are they'd rationalize it the same way you're doing with the above.
lol at anyone who thinks they have life all figured out.
I don't have shit figured out. I'm not claiming that.hanselthecaretaker said:
If you told me that you'd be able to send that picture through the air by concentrating real hard, you'd be wrong. You'd be wrong then, you'd be wrong today. See my point? You could make up a MILLION things 150 years ago and odds are you'd get SOMETHING right. Does that mean we should have respected all 1 million of your asinine theories simply because we couldn't prove them all wrong?
The Old Vet said:
Psychology's already explained all these kind of things. You don't have special powers. You do not violate the asymmetric thermodynamic arrow of time. You do not embark on mystical time travelling journeys in your sleep.
You are not special. You are 1 person among 6 000 000 000 people. (The need for human reenforcement of the ego, on whatever conscious level, has also been well documented in psychology.)
The only arrogance and ignorance revolves around people's total misunderstanding of energy and conservation laws. It's like we've digressed to the knowledge level of the 1400s.
Everyone needs to stop applying their incorrect notions of science to something which has absolutely nothing to do with science. This includes paranormal, ghosts, religion, ESP, gods, the Great Spaghetti Monster, Cthulu, and whatever other crap people seriously believe in because their lives are dominated by popular fictional media.
HTH
There is a wealth of literature on this topic. Humans WANT to believe certain things, and our brains are wired to readily accept certain things without evidence, and even in the face of evidence to the contrary.samoth said:Psychology's already explained all these kind of things. You don't have special powers. You do not violate the asymmetric thermodynamic arrow of time. You do not embark on mystical time travelling journeys in your sleep.
You are not special. You are 1 person among 6 000 000 000 people. (The need for human reenforcement of the ego, on whatever conscious level, has also been well documented in psychology.)
The only arrogance and ignorance revolves around people's total misunderstanding of energy and conservation laws. It's like we've digressed to the knowledge level of the 1400s.
Everyone needs to stop applying their incorrect notions of science to something which has absolutely nothing to do with science. This includes paranormal, ghosts, religion, ESP, gods, the Great Spaghetti Monster, Cthulu, and whatever other crap people seriously believe in because their lives are dominated by popular fictional media.
HTH
This has been traced back and evolutionary origins have been found for a lot of it as well.
Religion is another thing that the human brain seems to be wired for.
Really everyone....the whole world (spiritual and scientific) is make believe. All just a bunch of stuff we as humans made up and decided to collectively agree upon. And here we are arguing over what is "real" and what isn't. "I'm" sitting at my "computer" typing on the "interwebs". Yay.
So are you saying that vaccines, medicine, cars, et al. Only work because we all agreed and decided that they would? That is incredulous.hanselthecaretaker said:
The same people who dismiss science as just another "religion" or "philosophy" are quick to change their tune when they need to rely on it for their own personal well being.
Lestat said:
I just try and simplify it by acknowledging that anything is within the realm of possibility. Earth and its inhabitants are but a microspec in the universe. I've learned that it's healthier to take life with a grain of salt.
you can't disprove that I have a 12" cock!! (I won't let you measure) so it must be true!!!samoth said:Wait, are you one of those omg-we-live-in-teh-matrix people? Like, we're just figments of some alien's dream, like a dream within a dream?
I can't disprove it, so it must be true.
Hail teh matrix!
Interesting that you chose gravity.samoth said:*throws erasor at hansel*
Well, I have just show gravity and the laws of motion to hold. Feel free to show us a spiritual experiment so we can verify it. Thanks in advance.
Oh, can you throw me that erasor back? I kind of need it.
Explain gravity. WHY does it work. Short answer, and truest, NOBODY really frigging knows, just a whole bunch of speculative theories. I don't give a fuck what Neuton, Einstein, Hawkins or any of those eggheads say, peel away all the fancy words and it comes down to one thing: We don't know.
Just because something exists doesn't make it easier to understand, by the same token, just because something can or cannot be measured with the technology we currently have available or reliably recreated with absolute 100% perfection does not MAKE it non-existant.
And yes, pictures can be sent through the air with the mind. Like Old Vet says, remote viewing produced results, why else would the project have run as long as it did? The Govt. had to have SOMETHING that made it worth their money.
The government has wasted money on all kinds of technologies that never panned out or came to fruition.musclemom said:
Just because the government paid to research something, doesn't mean it was ever something viable.
And we know a whole hell of a lot about how gravity works compared to 1,000 years ago! Just like we know a whole hell of a lot more about how the human body works than we did 1,000 years ago.
You can't just take the parts we don't know about and make up something without evidence. That is religion's domain. Filling in the gaps (like how did the first matter get created, etc.)
Science is concerned with truth, plain and simple. There are a million POSSIBLE ways the earth got here, but I'm only concerned about ONE of those, the TRUE one.
Same with the ESP thing. People can have their dreams, all of their subjective experiences. I've seen the visual projection experiments and none of them come up with anyone more concrete than random sampling. You can have all the fun you want with them. Just as astrologists can do the same, come up with cute fortunes and predictions about people. I just ask that you be respectful enough not to try to pass it off as truth, that is when it gets rude and insulting.
There are none so blind that will not seejd_uk said:
Okay, see my user title? See my signature? Check my profile, under religion.
I could have shit myself when I read like 3/4s of people don't even believe in witches! WTF am I doing meeting my coven and going to frigging rituals
Guess we're all just delusional altogether 
Yes, I believe in the "paranormal" because I know most of you lunkheads are what I call "headblind."
Look, you can't smell cocaine, but a dog can. Is what he's doing ESP or are his senses just better than yours? Can you paint like DaVinci or play like Bethoven? Probably not. Is what they do talent, skill, or something else? It can't be skill becuase ANYONE with a shitload of determination should be able to do it, just as well!
So HOW do you measure that ineffable something? What part of the brain makes THEM geniuses in THEIR field? If you could compare Einstein's brain to YoYo Mah's or Pavarotti's or VanGogh's do you think there will be some massively measurable differences?
Being psychic is like that, except it's not something you can wrap your hands around. Every picture davinci painted WASN'T a masterpiece, Bethoven hit a few clinkers in HIS time, but their abilities aren't mocked because of that. You get a legit psychic, you test them, they hit 85% to 90% but THAT still isn't enough for fucking scientists, they want g'damned 100% every frigging time, because they can't EXPLAIN psychic ability, they can't lay their hands on it and measure it, so it JUST CAN'T fucking EXIST, 85% accuracy just has to be a fluke. Psychic talent should be like eyesight or hearing, predictably measurable, reliably detected, categorized and cataloged. It doesn't fucking work that way.
As I said, there are none so blind that will not see.
Mavafanculo
New member
hanselthecaretaker said:
What to make of all this? MacDougall's results were flawed because the methodology used to harvest them was suspect, the sample size far too small, and the ability to measure changes in weight imprecise. For this reason, credence should not be given to the idea his experiments proved something, let alone that they measured the weight of the soul as 21 grams. His postulations on this topic are a curiousity, but nothing more.
Lestat said:
samoth said:*throws erasor at hansel*
Well, I have just shown gravity and the laws of motion to hold. Feel free to show us a spiritual experiment so we can verify it. Thanks in advance.
Oh, can you throw me that erasor back? I kind of need it.
Did I ever say that nothing makes sense or holds constant? No, I merely said we decide on what makes sense or not through our own spectrum of our self-created reality. Before people were around, there wasn't a such thing as "science" or "spirituality" etc. All stuff we either created or discovered, and those two terms are interchangeable. Look at how many different languages there are in the world as a prime example. Who decides on this stuff and what to call it? And how do they decide on it? All stuff we assigned value to; some is truth holding constant (mathematics), others fiction discarded as nonsense (tooth fairies).
If there is other life in the universe and it visits earth and tries to communicate with humans, what are the chances we're going to understand each other? What is the probability of "universal truth"?
musclemom said:
It's one of the four fundamental forces in nature. You're welcome to read about the theory and experiments, and -- most importantly -- you can conduct these experiments yourself and verify them. See, this is the point of science: reproducibility. It's what seperates bullshit from fact.
Unless you're referring to the propagation of electromagnetic waves in air, you are wrong. Absolutely, 100% wrong. How can I say that with such certainty? Because neither you nor any of the other six billion people on this planet can reproduce what you are purporting.
1) YOU say it's true.
2) Thus, YOU have the burdon of proof.
3) Unless I've missed some new ESP-time-travelling law, theory, or conjecture, YOU have failed proving (1) to be true.
4) Thus your hypothesis is false.
QED.
(And if you're referring to the same government that passed federal laws of racial segregation and many other things now seen as rediculous, your supportive argument there is quite lacking.)
javaguru
Banned
Waitwaitwait.....I have a question: Which came first, the "chicken" or the "egg"?!?
javaguru said:
Which is why it's self defeating to say that something doesn't exist just because you can't prove it. After all, isn't the reason you try to prove something because you find it within the realm of possibility?
samoth said:People actually think about this past grade school? lol
Perhaps some rewording of the question clears up the percieved paradox a bit: What came first, the grown human male or the little baby boy? "Ahh, now it makes sense!"
Has science announced the law concerning the origin of human life yet?
I like to just simplify it and say that we came from the earth (which is ultimately true). Unless you want to count the universe too.
hanselthecaretaker said:Has science announced the law concerning the origin of human life yet?
I like to just simplify it and say that we came from the earth (which is ultimately true). Unless you want to count the universe too.
If you want to keep going further and further back, all we will have to discuss is the initial spacetime singularity. Do you mean intelligent life here, chickens, or bacteria? Biological or chemical level construction? Solar or extra-solar origins? The building blocks of life aren't really that overly complicated. The main difficulties are statistical interpretation by non-stats people and lack of direct experiment given the time needed to lab-grow a human in the laboratory.
With the proliferation of medicine and BIGPHARMA, I figured the god-*poof*-instant-life theory would be long dead by now in the general public.
WHY DOES IT FUCKING WORK!?! Stop barfing up $0.50 theorums and tell me why it works. You can't. Nobody knows how or why most things in the natural world fucking work. You just know it works reliably and predictably, so that makes it "better" than things that are unpredictable. But my point was, if we understood what "life" was we could resurrect dead for a while people, if we knew what electricity really was we wouldn't need wires and shit, if people understood gravity, they could recreate it, and then there'd be "ANTI" gravity and we'd all save pissloads on shoe leather and astronauts wouldn't need to practice spacewalks in swimming pools, etc., etc., etc., ad infinitum.samoth said:
Shit, I can list HUNDREDS of things, from Gravity to Prescription drugs, that literally have written somewhere in their descriptions: WE DON'T KNOW HOW OR WHY IT WORKS.
My point is, who gives a crap if you can reproduce it, what made it happen to begin with, that's what really matters! If something works and you don't know WHY it works then you don't know HOW it works and you don't truly understand it, period. You might be able to use it, but you will never be using it to its best advantage, not by a long shot.
javaguru
Banned
In a December 2004 interview with Bill Moyers, Dawkins stated that "among the things that science does know, evolution is about as certain as anything we know." When Moyers later asked, "Is evolution a theory, not a fact?", Dawkins replied, "Evolution has been observed. It's just that it hasn't been observed while it's happening." Dawkins went on to say, "It is rather like a detective coming on a murder after the scene. And you… the detective hasn't actually seen the murder take place, of course. But what you do see is a massive clue ...Circumstantial evidence, but masses of circumstantial evidence. Huge quantities of circumstantial evidence."hanselthecaretaker said:Has science announced the law concerning the origin of human life yet?
I like to just simplify it and say that we came from the earth (which is ultimately true). Unless you want to count the universe too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dawkins
javaguru said:
If we last long enough we should achieve immortality.
musclemom said:
Some things require prerequisite knowledge. The world is a complicated place, and if people *really* want to understand it -- not just the bullshit on television -- they need to put in a lot of time and effort. Explaining electron spin or angular momentum purely in words to the average person fails to get any true meaning across. Sorry.
I lauged.
I laughed harder.
No. You just don't understand what this force is. And you never will without years of work. People must expect this. The world is a complicated place. It cannot be explained in a 1-hour television show. Often, a specialized language is needed with which to express the topic. Without this language, one cannot hope to grasp but the basic analogies.
Incorrect. Perhaps on the level you're at, but generally speaking, the above statement is incorrect.
Everything in the universe can be taken back in every dimension and scale until one either approaches the beginning of the universe or a quantum mechanical limit. Hence, such arguments are of no use to discuss unless every party is willing to proceed to such a level.
ceo said:
I have an old friend who actually believes the ghosthunter show. Like, he goes to forums or whatever and there's this whole underground cult of similar wierdos like him. They analyze radio static and give it wierd names and stuff. I seriously had to restrain my laughter when he was talking about this.
Here's the big difference between someone like yourself, Samoth, and someone like me: As ridiculous as I find a childish clinging to demands for "scientific proof," I don't laugh at you. I understand your point of view, I don't agree with it, but I don't mock you. I'm still trying to give you a reasonably explanation as to why something like ESP may exist and not be measurable, and you don't hear what I'm saying. I'm trying to point out to you that this world, as you have pointed out to me, this highly complicated world, isn't even close to being understood. Because you can't reduce it to numbers and graphs. It's ART and it's creativity come to life. Science will never understand the machinery of the universe.samoth said:I laughed harder.
musclemom said:
I do hear what you're saying. But I still laugh at rediculous comments like reanimation -- mainly because it's a rarity not even used in religion debates, lol. You have to realize that normal people in the world that use this science stuff find the media-popularized stuff like paranormal ghost hunts and psychokinesis funny as hell.
And science is the study of teh machinery of the universe. If you want to ever have any slight hope of almost understanding the universe, it will be through science and only science.
I've learned more about the universe (and humanity) in ONE decent book about Kabalah than I ever learned in one book of pure "science."samoth said:And science is the study of teh machinery of the universe. If you want to ever have any slight hope of almost understanding the universe, it will be through science and only science.
Science knows how a body is constructed, down to the smallest atom, but not what truly gives it life, we certainly haven't even come close to understanding what goes into a persons psychology, if we knew that then there wouldn't be crime or ignorance, would there? What gives you the idea science can do better with something far larger and more alien? Hell, we don't even understand this planet we live on, the climate, the other species, how humanity is or is not impacting life. You can pile facts from here to the moon and back, that does not bring true understanding.
Just like playing piano. You can be tutored from the youngest age by the best of teachers, but if you don't have that certain "something" you will NEVER be a great pianist. Knowledge does guarantee understanding.
I think we've beaten this subject to death, don't you? Let's agree to disagree. What's funny is we both consider each other blind for different reasons. You because I don't understand the books and theories, me because I think you rely on them too much
jd_uk
New member
musclemom said:There are none so blind that will not see
Okay, see my user title? See my signature? Check my profile, under religion.
I could have shit myself when I read like 3/4s of people don't even believe in witches! WTF am I doing meeting my coven and going to frigging rituals
Yes, I believe in the "paranormal" because I know most of you lunkheads are what I call "headblind."
Look, you can't smell cocaine, but a dog can. Is what he's doing ESP or are his senses just better than yours? Can you paint like DaVinci or play like Bethoven? Probably not. Is what they do talent, skill, or something else? It can't be skill becuase ANYONE with a shitload of determination should be able to do it, just as well!
So HOW do you measure that ineffable something? What part of the brain makes THEM geniuses in THEIR field? If you could compare Einstein's brain to YoYo Mah's or Pavarotti's or VanGogh's do you think there will be some massively measurable differences?
Being psychic is like that, except it's not something you can wrap your hands around. Every picture davinci painted WASN'T a masterpiece, Bethoven hit a few clinkers in HIS time, but their abilities aren't mocked because of that. You get a legit psychic, you test them, they hit 85% to 90% but THAT still isn't enough for fucking scientists, they want g'damned 100% every frigging time, because they can't EXPLAIN psychic ability, they can't lay their hands on it and measure it, so it JUST CAN'T fucking EXIST, 85% accuracy just has to be a fluke. Psychic talent should be like eyesight or hearing, predictably measurable, reliably detected, categorized and cataloged. It doesn't fucking work that way.
As I said, there are none so blind that will not see.
If you're talking about psychic abilities then i would suggest you download and watch a program called Derren Brown - Seance. For me he has completely shown people who claim to have psychic abilities to be complete frauds.
So, according to your reasoning, because XYZ number of physicians are charged with medical malpractice annually, far, far more than psychics who are even out in the "real world," then nobody should trust doctors either?jd_uk said:
Give me a break. Don't scoff at something just because you have no personal experience with it, that's the mark of a small mind.
I've seen the frauds. Cold hearted people taking advantage of other people with problems or in pain. I also know people who are the "real deal" and they are out there doing (or at least trying to do) genuine good.
needtogetarmy
CEO of Project Mayhem
jd_uk said:
There are tons of frauds out there. I totally agree with that. There are also legitimate people out there. like myself, that have had paranormal experiences. I have no reason to make this shit up. I ended up getting into as a hobby because of my personal experiences, it wasn't the other way around.
blueta2
New member
It's baffling that some still don't believe in things they cannot feel and or see.
If an animal can sense an earthquake, but humans needs machines to, does that mean the sense of the animal is not real? They can feel it, we can't.
Some people can sense vibrations others cannot.
If an animal can sense an earthquake, but humans needs machines to, does that mean the sense of the animal is not real? They can feel it, we can't.
Some people can sense vibrations others cannot.
I can usually tell when Digger is gonna red me.
blueta2 said:
Or some people are more susceptible to self-delusion and the power of suggestion.
Okay, so if there are vibrations out there that some people can sense, when is someone going to do something useful with it? Like prevent a catastrophe or atrocity before it happens? Or use it to manipulate the environment in some way, such as we do with all our other sensory skills? Why is this one so elusive?
needtogetarmy
CEO of Project Mayhem
Mr. dB said:
They have.
A CIA plane went down in Africa in the 1970's and they couldn't find it. One of the crew of the CIA's remote viewing camp was able to find it, pinpointed to the exact location.
It is elusive because some may have the skill but lack the ability to control it, or to develop it.
There is some literature out there on the Aboriginals in Australia. It is interesting. The lived in a culture that fostered the development of some of these abilities, which is unlike our culture. We are taught just the opposite, to laugh, ridicule and scorn anyone who claims to have such abilities.
musclemom said:
........Apples
samoth said:I do hear what you're saying. But I still laugh at rediculous comments like reanimation -- mainly because it's a rarity not even used in religion debates, lol. You have to realize that normal people in the world that use this science stuff find the media-popularized stuff like paranormal ghost hunts and psychokinesis funny as hell.
And science is the study of teh machinery of the universe. If you want to ever have any slight hope of almost understanding the universe, it will be through science and only science.
.......Oranges
musclemom said:I've learned more about the universe (and humanity) in ONE decent book about Kabalah than I ever learned in one book of pure "science."
Science knows how a body is constructed, down to the smallest atom, but not what truly gives it life, we certainly haven't even come close to understanding what goes into a persons psychology, if we knew that then there wouldn't be crime or ignorance, would there? What gives you the idea science can do better with something far larger and more alien? Hell, we don't even understand this planet we live on, the climate, the other species, how humanity is or is not impacting life. You can pile facts from here to the moon and back, that does not bring true understanding.
Just like playing piano. You can be tutored from the youngest age by the best of teachers, but if you don't have that certain "something" you will NEVER be a great pianist. Knowledge does guarantee understanding.
I think we've beaten this subject to death, don't you? Let's agree to disagree. What's funny is we both consider each other blind for different reasons. You because I don't understand the books and theories, me because I think you rely on them too much
True. You can calculate every note on the page down to every marking but if you're not "feeling" it, even the audience will know. It's a human thing.
When someone asks a great musician how he came up with the great music he played, he doesn't say, "Oh, well to start I calculated the harmonic resonance of middle C, then deduced that it was x/2 to the third power of its melodic minor, and was able to blah blah blah...." No, he'll just say "Man I was just feelin it out there."
Just like acting. If you have to try to act, you're dead.
blueta2 said:
If someone really knew what was coming, they'd come right out and say it, instead of couching it in riddles and verse that are open to endless diverging interpretations. It's very easy to fit these "predictions" to an event, after it has happened. Doesn't do us a whole lot of good then, though.
redsamurai
Banned
Lestat said:
if he's right..........there is absolutely no point to this existence. I totally respect your views because there's a logical pragmatism to them..........and I like that. But for the sake of keeping myself from snapping and killing all of you feckless useless cunts...............I have to tell myself there's a "reason".............
redsamurai
Banned
ok, after reading the rest of this thread............samoth has convinced me to kill all of you at my earliest convenience. LOL
good debate people..........there are alot of valid points on both sides, even if samoth doesn't want to see it.
The point I've been making to people here for the last year is that everyone is on their own journey. Samoth isn't right or wrong, neither is musclemom, neither is lestat etc. etc. etc. Neither one is going to prove or disprove the other..........but Musclemom is clearly one of the most loved and respected people here and in my estimation, I only know her from her writings.......but in my estimation one of the most decent human beings I've run across. So obviously something is being done right............so whatever journey she is on, is working for her. Samoth, seems to be a good broly too........I've yet to see him be a real cocksuker in any way shape or form.......again, don't know him personally, but if he's a decent human being........that whatever he's working on is "right for him". Most people can't grasp that concept..........that whatever is allowing you to self actuate and be a decent fucking human being............that's "what's right". We're all in our own worlds...........so samoth isn't wrong and neither is musclemom, because whatever they're doing is working...........and that, IMO, is what god wants........or the flying sphaghetti monster or fuck whatever, who knows.
But I will say this............I have no proof of this and likely never will in this existence. But accountability is out there..........in what form I have no fucking clue. The who, what, why and where is irritatingly obscure to me...............but it is there..............you mark my fucking words, "something" will hold us accountable for how we rolled.
good debate people..........there are alot of valid points on both sides, even if samoth doesn't want to see it.
The point I've been making to people here for the last year is that everyone is on their own journey. Samoth isn't right or wrong, neither is musclemom, neither is lestat etc. etc. etc. Neither one is going to prove or disprove the other..........but Musclemom is clearly one of the most loved and respected people here and in my estimation, I only know her from her writings.......but in my estimation one of the most decent human beings I've run across. So obviously something is being done right............so whatever journey she is on, is working for her. Samoth, seems to be a good broly too........I've yet to see him be a real cocksuker in any way shape or form.......again, don't know him personally, but if he's a decent human being........that whatever he's working on is "right for him". Most people can't grasp that concept..........that whatever is allowing you to self actuate and be a decent fucking human being............that's "what's right". We're all in our own worlds...........so samoth isn't wrong and neither is musclemom, because whatever they're doing is working...........and that, IMO, is what god wants........or the flying sphaghetti monster or fuck whatever, who knows.
But I will say this............I have no proof of this and likely never will in this existence. But accountability is out there..........in what form I have no fucking clue. The who, what, why and where is irritatingly obscure to me...............but it is there..............you mark my fucking words, "something" will hold us accountable for how we rolled.
jd_uk
New member
Just a very brief clip from the tv special called Derren Brwon - Seance.
http://www.findinternettv.com/Video,item,1753252849.aspx
Anyone claiming that some people have ESP and pshycic abilites HAS to see the full show. I've seen a lot of psychics now and have never seen one who wasn't blatantly fraudulent. In Derren Brown's show he picked out about 10 psychics and showed exactly how they do what they do. He also fooled many people into believeing he was psychic just to show how easy it was to convince people of something they couldn't understand.
Musclemom i don't think you can compare this with the medical profession because that has been proven to save lives every day. Nothing 'paranormal' is remotely proven.
Derren Brown has 95 accuracy using ESP techniques (better than most psychics) but he admits that it is using straightforward techniques that anyone can learn.
Another clip from Seance : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G18NfN76bAs&feature=related
Again, i stress that the whole show needs to be watched for full effect.
http://www.findinternettv.com/Video,item,1753252849.aspx
Anyone claiming that some people have ESP and pshycic abilites HAS to see the full show. I've seen a lot of psychics now and have never seen one who wasn't blatantly fraudulent. In Derren Brown's show he picked out about 10 psychics and showed exactly how they do what they do. He also fooled many people into believeing he was psychic just to show how easy it was to convince people of something they couldn't understand.
Musclemom i don't think you can compare this with the medical profession because that has been proven to save lives every day. Nothing 'paranormal' is remotely proven.
Derren Brown has 95 accuracy using ESP techniques (better than most psychics) but he admits that it is using straightforward techniques that anyone can learn.
Another clip from Seance : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G18NfN76bAs&feature=related
Again, i stress that the whole show needs to be watched for full effect.
calveless wonder
New member
I must have been a king or a dictator.
must explain why i can be so lazy and such a condescending/arrogant prick sometimes
must explain why i can be so lazy and such a condescending/arrogant prick sometimes
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