Ok Dudes, Long Or Short Cycles?

[Nelson Montana]

Re: Re: Re: Well

The short-cycle theory/approach to AAS is completely ineffective and lacks all merit and common sense. In fact, it's counter-productive. To suggest a 2-3 weeks cycle shows a clear lack of knowledge of AAS pharmacology. The short 2-3 week cycle you suggest will just about completely shut down your HPTA and then you suggest going off?? While you're off the body isn't producing natural testosterone anyone because the 2-3 weeks you were on shut down your natural production of testosterone. What part of that don't you get??? Do you just come up with these brainless theories to stir up controversy? What's the point of it? To make fewer gains that are easier to maintain. Even that notion is wrong for the reasons mentioned above.

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Even this guy's name is obnoxious.

 

[ripper911]

so far long

 

[brotheriron]

Just my pennys worth from personal experience...

In the past ive done mainly 6-8 week cycles, with between 4-8 weeks off.
After hearing your views on this board i tried a slightly lower dose 16 week course, which cost a fortune. I gained nothing. I got close to losing weight at the end.

For me, 5 weeks is best, high androgens first week with decca, primo cyp and fast acting decca for a couple of weeks, then prop to finish. Chuck in some hgh, t3 etc and its a winner. There aint a bad crash at the end, and you dont need 6 months off between cycles. I grow like fuck in the fist few weeks, then maintain while im off.
Bro

 

[Nelson Montana]

Just my pennys worth from personal experience...

In the past ive done mainly 6-8 week cycles, with between 4-8 weeks off.
After hearing your views on this board i tried a slightly lower dose 16 week course, which cost a fortune. I gained nothing. I got close to losing weight at the end.

For me, 5 weeks is best, high androgens first week with decca, primo cyp and fast acting decca for a couple of weeks, then prop to finish. Chuck in some hgh, t3 etc and its a winner. There aint a bad crash at the end, and you dont need 6 months off between cycles. I grow like fuck in the fist few weeks, then maintain while im off.
Bro

..........................

Long, low dose cycles are the worst. As you said, the first few weeks are when you get the best gains anyway. Hit it hard and get out!

 

[babbabuee]

So no one is going to argue JuiceAuthority's claim that your HPTA shuts down on a 3 week cycle?
curious minds want to know

 

[Krazykat]

bump

bump for pro 3 weekers.

 

[brotheriron]

No doubt it does shut down, but with the amounts people take it probably shuts down on day 1.
I'd rather be shut down for 5 weeks than 15 though, its much easier to turn back to normal.
Bro

 

[serge]

So no one is going to argue JuiceAuthority's claim that your HPTA shuts down on a 3 week cycle?
curious minds want to know

there is no argument, you can go on meso-rx.com and there is a study done on it, hpta shuts down after 2weeks, but recovers within days if total time spent is infact 2 weeks, hence the gains are kept and you dont end up goin through the post cycle roller coaster then many go through with typical 12 week cycles

 

[Krazykat]

2 week shutdown

Its very important to realise that this shutdown in two weeks is at high androgen doses. Exactly what consitutes a high dose I am unsure, but Bill Roberts did say that Nelson Montana`s three week cycles are fine since the dosage is lower than `high` thus allowing one to be on longer before shutdown occurs.

 

[Juice Authority]

there is no argument, you can go on meso-rx.com and there is a study done on it, hpta shuts down after 2weeks, but recovers within days if total time spent is infact 2 weeks, hence the gains are kept and you dont end up goin through the post cycle roller coaster then many go through with typical 12 week cycles

You bring up an interesting point that I'd like to expand on. What you point out is true. Recovery is a lot quicker if you're only on for 2-3 weeks versus the typical 8-10 week cycle. Based on the post-cycle research studies that I've read where the subject was given HCG, Nolva and Clomid a full recovery took an average of between 30-45 days for subjects that were on an 8-week cycle. Some took longer but that was the average.

The problem with the 2-3 week cycle approach on heavy androgens like Nelson suggests is that studies show (on meso-rx in particular) that hpta still takes at least a couple of weeks, sometimes longer for a complete recovery on shorter cycles. It also noted that a near complete shutdown of hpta occurs 2 weeks into a cycle. That's the point at which the body stops producing natural testosterone and is relying on synthetic version for growth. The gains you make in the 2-3 timeframe on short-acting esters are much harder to maintain since little to no growth occurs in the 2-3 weeks you're off. The upside is that anti-e's aren't necessary on short cycles but the gains made are minimal in comparison to longer cycles.

If you average it out over a year you'll find that the gains made from 8-10 week cycles with 8-10 weeks off far outweigh the consistent 2 week on 2 week off approach. I highly doubt you'll ever hear the Pro's advocating short cycles. Short cycles limit you to short acting esters only. You wouldn't benefit at all from running some of the heavier, more popular androgens like Test Enan, Cyp and Deca since they are all long acting esters.

In closing, Nelson once again is promoting these off the wall, counter-productive theories to AAS cycling that have no factual basis or merit. It is purely his opinion and it is dead wrong and contrary to well established proven methods of cycling. Just because Nelson is an aggressive self-promoter and wrote a book on the "Truth" of bodybuilding certainly doesn't make him right. In fact, Nelson is wrong about a lot of things but try to get him to see it!