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No wonder Michael Moore loves the UAW
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Milo Hobgoblin said:
Only in the short term. Few people benefited from early industrialization. Farmers were bitching about lost labor. Carriage makers bitched when cars came out.
Shall we go backward just to save carriage makers?
In other words, the skilled American becomes more valuable, and the price of the finished product drops. This is how wealth is created. Even if this wealth goes right to the CEO's pocket, he is either going to spend it (yay boosts economy) or save it (yay gives banks money to invest).
The alternative is we "freeze" progress and save the carriage maker. So what if we have no more cars?
The wealth created by this system goes BACK into the economy and creates opportunity for the displaced worker. Cars made the world better for the displaced carriage maker.
You and those who take your position make the mistake of pointing to the few individuals that lose out and say "the whole system is fucked". That's completely fallacious...not to be confused with "fellatio", which is how PERFECTWORLD earns extra money since the Bush admin cut his arms off.
Wow, 29 years old and they are comparing me to one of the greatest thinkers of the modern era. Sweet.
Except you have it backwards. Marx's system crushed the masses while those who controlled it reaped rewards. Capitalism provides more wealth and more opportunity for the larger groups by producing more wealth which is spent, while displacing only smaller groups.
Capitalism is 100% opposite of marx.
Incorrect. Unchecked capitalism transformed the US from an agrarian country to an industrial powerhouse. Railroads, steel mills, home heating oil, automobiles and airplanes all brought to you courtesy of capitalist pigs. At no time in our nation's history have we advanced so fast.
By comparison, government intervention into the economy and our banking system brought us the great depression.
You can't use a few sob story exceptions to discredit the system.
WODIN said:
No, now is the knowledge economy, when you're in your 80s and 90s.
Razorguns
Well-known member
Milo said:
Everything i would say has already been covered by Matt -- but i just have one thing to add to this point:
Knowledge is power. Knowledge creates *value* and *worth*. Two words which set your compensation more than anything else.
If your theory above was true, i wouldn't be making 6 figures here in southern california.
I'm a highly trained, skilled, educated engineer, technology innovator with years of experience in management and analysis.
I'm live in and surrounded by cities full of uneducated, untrained, unskilled, illegal, janitors and fast food workers. Should i complain? Of course not. Why? Cuz my value and worth increases due to my location and scarce resources of people of my calibre.
Translation: I can *command* a high salary.
I have recruiters breakin' down my roof to have me come in for interviews. I keep turning them down. Hello Free Market! Hallelujah! Chalk me up as a success story.
I also am part of no union, but my compensation is still pretty high. That's because the free market in my city is what's setting my salary.
So not all is bad. In my case -- it can be a godsend.
The strength of this country is not the ability to turn a wrench. It's the knowledge and education we possess and others don't, of how best to turn that wrench.
Let's save the carriage makers!
Whenever someone brings up something that could halt progress, I always remember this old Italian man who use to go through my old neighbourhood and offer his knife sharpening skills. He'd come around with his horse and cart and ring his bell for his service.
As time passed, more and more people stopped using his service because they all bought those self-sharpening knives. Sure, not as good, but they did the job.
I remember that man on his last day in the middle of Spring about 25 years ago. He told me that he was being squeezed out because of progress and that the world wouldn't have a place for him anymore. But, all in all, he was happy because his sons would prosper in this new world. He started on his merry way and I overheard some older kids be cruel to the man for being stupid to try and peddle his outdated wares.
There I was some bright eyed kid and all I could think was on how no one really gave a crap for that guy. I felt sorry for him, but I was a little happy that he was content with his place and his decisions because he could see the value of moving on.
So, 25 years later, when I see people bitching about progress, I sit and wonder about that old man who I had a chat with along time ago. He saw and understood the value of progress, why can't the people now?
Whenever someone brings up something that could halt progress, I always remember this old Italian man who use to go through my old neighbourhood and offer his knife sharpening skills. He'd come around with his horse and cart and ring his bell for his service.
As time passed, more and more people stopped using his service because they all bought those self-sharpening knives. Sure, not as good, but they did the job.
I remember that man on his last day in the middle of Spring about 25 years ago. He told me that he was being squeezed out because of progress and that the world wouldn't have a place for him anymore. But, all in all, he was happy because his sons would prosper in this new world. He started on his merry way and I overheard some older kids be cruel to the man for being stupid to try and peddle his outdated wares.
There I was some bright eyed kid and all I could think was on how no one really gave a crap for that guy. I felt sorry for him, but I was a little happy that he was content with his place and his decisions because he could see the value of moving on.
So, 25 years later, when I see people bitching about progress, I sit and wonder about that old man who I had a chat with along time ago. He saw and understood the value of progress, why can't the people now?
B
BrothaBill
Guest
PERFECTWORLD said:Definerogress.
You fear change and all that’s new
Stand in the way of progress
Like primitive man afraid of fire
’till he explored it’s many uses
The power of the atom at our disposal
Yet it is called unsafe
Nuclear energy so clean and pure
Your ignorance is a disgrace
Do not resist
It is your destiny
Have we not all become
The children of technology
Holding your fate in a magnetic grip
Of all your irrational fears
The shadow of machinery cast upon the flesh of man
Blood, sweat, and gears
The robots of dawn offsprings the industry
Spot you in the cobalt blue light
One fell swoop and you’ve become a memory
Away with your intrusive life
Into the reactor PerfectWorld!
You worship a dead man hung with nails
Only a fool would die for the sins of humanity
On your knees before electronics
Lets replace this religious insanity
Tear down the churches instead on the ground
Build there the holy reactors
Give us the children science and math
In place of bibles and pastors
You bleeding heart liberals
Who oppose the nuclear regulatory commission
Must be compelled to retire
You serve only as obstacles and should be used
To fuel the nuclear pyre
B
BrothaBill
Guest
PW, how do you insert photos like that? I havent tried before, tell me the secret maing
B
BrothaBill
Guest
PERFECTWORLD said:
PW I have so many medical books and pictures that would haunt you if that bugs you that is just a mutation, nothing new about them, they occur same with the cow going back to the first beginnings of life, nothing to scream at.
rsnoble-im-back
Banned
No unions, no pensions, cheap chinese cars.
Just a contiunuation of the big race to the bottom. A few more decades this country is going to be a real shit pit for the majority. Theres nothing wrong with trying to have good jobs and benefits. Id rather have that and have a lot of people doing well for themselves instead of every family owning some slant eyed fuking turd box and living underneath a goddamn fuing bridge.
Just like walmart whoring out every industry. Bank tellers used to be paid well, then banks realized they were overpaid and anyone could do it, and walmart will realize that their still overpaid and that imported fuking monkeys from the burning rain forests could do the job.
So.......you sorry ass mothefukers keep promoting your fuking free trade garbage and I will guarantee you a country that will be chock full of hungry starving 10 jobs per person no health insurance sickly sonofabithes and everything will be goinmg to total shit. Basically what your asking for is to lower your country's standards to that of the Chinese.
So saying that--you can eat shit fuk off and die.
End of fuking story.
Just a contiunuation of the big race to the bottom. A few more decades this country is going to be a real shit pit for the majority. Theres nothing wrong with trying to have good jobs and benefits. Id rather have that and have a lot of people doing well for themselves instead of every family owning some slant eyed fuking turd box and living underneath a goddamn fuing bridge.
Just like walmart whoring out every industry. Bank tellers used to be paid well, then banks realized they were overpaid and anyone could do it, and walmart will realize that their still overpaid and that imported fuking monkeys from the burning rain forests could do the job.
So.......you sorry ass mothefukers keep promoting your fuking free trade garbage and I will guarantee you a country that will be chock full of hungry starving 10 jobs per person no health insurance sickly sonofabithes and everything will be goinmg to total shit. Basically what your asking for is to lower your country's standards to that of the Chinese.
So saying that--you can eat shit fuk off and die.
End of fuking story.
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