Newbie cycles that vets could learn from.

[Realgains]

ULTER.... you are right one cannot expect to gain 8 pounds on each two weeker , especially after one gets a lot bigger. Nor can one expect to gain 20-30 pounds per cycle on long cycles on a consistant basis.(unless you use test alone at high dose with no estrogen inhibition in which case half the gain will be water and lost in the few weeks post cycle)

I never said that one can continue to make 8 pound gains on short cycles over years. But you can smash through your genetic natural maximum weight quite quickly. After that you will have to settle for smaller gains with short cycles and if one wants to get really huge then long cycles are needed.

But bro the short cycle properly done does work and I don't think it is fair to say that they don't work. They are not going to get you 40 pounds above your natural max weight but that doesn't mean the don't work.


Its just an alternative to long cycles for those that are not looking to become as massive as they could and that do not compete. Short cycles are very good for the older man worried about sides(especially prostate issues and blood lipid issues), the paranoid newbie,and for the athlete looking to help his game etc.

I have said it before ..if one desires to become as huge as possible and or compete at a high levels then long cycles are needed and in fact many would need to stay on gear year round.



RG

 

[Qrios]

I have had my test levels checked before and after a short cycle of tren/test. Before it was my normal of around 550. My test production was likely nearly zero after the two weeks but I retested after a week off, that is after week three, and my test had rebounded to a higher level at 670. Some think this is due to the pituitary being ultra sensitized to GnRH, it not having time enough to "go to sleep". By week 4 my test had dropped to 560.

Were you taking clomid on week 3 and 4?
What kind of test(ester) did you use and what dose?

 

[Realgains]

Were you taking clomid on week 3 and 4?
What kind of test(ester) did you use and what dose?

Yes I was taking clomid. On day 15 I did 300mg in divided doses and then 50 mg per day for the 4 weeks off.
I was doing test ptop at about 125 per day and tren at 80mg per day.

 

[c3bodybuilding]

Where does everyone get this crap that Arnold had four surgerys, and it was all because of roids? "My friends cousin knew a guy, who went out with a girl, who dated a guy, who knew a guy who worked at a hospital...." Arnold had 2 surgerys. One to replace a valve that was messed up genetically. Something went wrong, he woke up one night, couldn't breathe, they had to replace it. End of story.

And as for some people calling real gains a bullshitter, etc (Except for Uter, etc., which are very well respected members, and VETS), wake the hell up. Some of you remind me of the people who ask me how I gained size, and look at me blank as I tell them I eat 6-10 times a day, as I walk back to my next set of deadlifts. Meanwhile they are doing cable curls, and drinking shakes, with some skim milk, and a subway sandwich for good measure. Back in the day, those guys trained like animals, not like some of us (not saying todays pro's don't. They also train like nuts). They did squats, deads, clean and press, etc. No press downs, and kickbacks for the main routine. They also ate like horses. Ground beef in bulk, steaks, WHOLE eggs, WHOLE milk, etc. You add genetics and a little juice, and you could easily have a great looking Arnold at 6'2 235-245 lean.

I think more newbies need to follow this advice. I did eq at 200mg a week for 12 weeks, I went from 191/2 to 218. At first I even thought the gear was bunk, because I wasn't shut down, and didnt experience sides. I guess low sides come with low dose. I hear people recommending someone to stack so much shit for their first cycle, what bs! "Take 40mg of d-ball a day, 500 of test, 300 of deca, throw in some fina ed for good measure, and perhaps some a-bombs for a bridge at the end" High dose, low dose, no dose at all, if the food, proper training, and rest aren't there, then no gains. And no dose will save you then.

Some bro's may need high doses, same may need low. But *newbies* should start out low, and find out what works for them. Oh, and don't complain the shit was fake, or you need more, when you aren't even over 200lbs at 6'5, and you eat once a day at 4pm, and do leg exts with cable cross overs.....

Excellent Post Real gains. I always enjoy your posts, but this one was dead on..

 

[Iron Gamer]

Thanks real gains......I've been to many boards and this is the first post I've seen like this. It's a real shame that more people can't have the start low and build up attitude. Keep these posts coming.

 

[Iron Gamer]

Real gains and C3
great posts.....kharma to you

 

[Mandinka2]

The currently available lab rat speaks:

Ok folks , this morning , on the scales weighted in at 231 lbs (up 3 at start of day five), this is below what I would expect with dbol but not holdin an ounce of water (Winny and tren eod). Hammered back in gym on Saturday , was very pleased with strength increase. Kinda think I screwed up a little as I got caught up in some emotional trouble last night (damn wimmin) ,maybe cost me a pund - didn't sleep , sadly not for that reason. Anyway , the experiment continues!

 

[machman]

Good work everyone

This is one of the most sensible threads I've read on this site in a long time. Although I am not one of the most experienced bros on here, the low dose theory is making alot of sense to me. I gained and kept about 4 or 5 lbs one summer on 25mg of test suspension eod for 6 wks. I know some guys say, what the hell would you only want to gain 4 or 5 lbs for? But in my mind the long term health risks are much less, and if I ever put on 25 lbs in 3 weeks like I did with A-bombs again I think my body would kick my ass. Although it was cool putting on that much weight that fast, but the sides are not worth it IMO. Next cycle will be nice n easy 250 test/wk X 8, maybe some winny at the end @ 25ed X 4. Thanks to all who have contributed!

 

[Stargazer22]

Well, I've been lurking around the board for a few months. I've been reading things, trying to figure some stuff out. I figured no one would appreciate another newbie coming on, and on his first day posting something on the order of "I'm new here--help me!". I visit other forums, and I know how much I just LOVE that.

I was so damned glad to see this thread. So far, most of what I've seen has been cycles where people stack so much. It was good to see more of a conservative approach.

But, I of course have some questions--don't we always?

I've been running and doing moderate lifting for six months or so--but not putting on muscle mass. I haven't been pushing it. I only wanted to get in better shape, but not really beef up at all.

I'm 5'10", and about 155lbs (kinda scrawny, I know). I want to start putting on some mass. My goals are pretty loose. I have no definite weight or size--I simply want some clear definition, and improved strength. But I DON'T want to be huge--I don't want to be competition worthy. If I got bigger than 200lbs, for my frame, I'd be scared of my damned self.

I've been looking for people to list, more specifically, what I should be doing as a workout regiment. A few comments in this thread came close, but as I'm not entirely educated on the subject, it didn't all make sense to me. Some work out 3 times a week, some 6. Some go every other day. Some work upper body one day, lower body the next, and then alternate.

Can someone be more specific on really how I should, as a beginner weightlifter, be lifting? Or if you know of a good site or spot where I can find out more about this, that would be great. Also, as for eating all the time, I can try. I admit that this is probably my big problem. I'm a vegetarian, for one. Although the combination of foods I do eat often mix to complete protein strands, I'm sure I don't get enough. I have a whey protein supplement that I can take more of, if I have to. I think it's something like 25g of protein per serving.

Also, I don't entirely like the idea of cycling. Or, more specifically, I don't like the idea of stacking. Call me a paranoid newbie--that's really what I am. But the article George has posted about Anavar sounded really interesting.

Would it be possible to simply supplement my new workout/dieting routine with JUST oral anavar? Would it do any good at all?

Also, I'm not entirely sure what board etiquette is, but no one ever meantions how it is they come by these things. I haven't found one person list a source at all. I'm assuming that's because it would be less than desireable to post someone's name all over the web... but if no one says anything... how am I to start?

If you made it this far, I'm grateful and downright impressed. If you can help me out at all, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks a bunch.

 

[Realgains]

Well, I've been lurking around the board for a few months. I've been reading things, trying to figure some stuff out. I figured no one would appreciate another newbie coming on, and on his first day posting something on the order of "I'm new here--help me!". I visit other forums, and I know how much I just LOVE that.

I was so damned glad to see this thread. So far, most of what I've seen has been cycles where people stack so much. It was good to see more of a conservative approach.

But, I of course have some questions--don't we always?

I've been running and doing moderate lifting for six months or so--but not putting on muscle mass. I haven't been pushing it. I only wanted to get in better shape, but not really beef up at all.

I'm 5'10", and about 155lbs (kinda scrawny, I know). I want to start putting on some mass. My goals are pretty loose. I have no definite weight or size--I simply want some clear definition, and improved strength. But I DON'T want to be huge--I don't want to be competition worthy. If I got bigger than 200lbs, for my frame, I'd be scared of my damned self.

I've been looking for people to list, more specifically, what I should be doing as a workout regiment. A few comments in this thread came close, but as I'm not entirely educated on the subject, it didn't all make sense to me. Some work out 3 times a week, some 6. Some go every other day. Some work upper body one day, lower body the next, and then alternate.

Can someone be more specific on really how I should, as a beginner weightlifter, be lifting? Or if you know of a good site or spot where I can find out more about this, that would be great. Also, as for eating all the time, I can try. I admit that this is probably my big problem. I'm a vegetarian, for one. Although the combination of foods I do eat often mix to complete protein strands, I'm sure I don't get enough. I have a whey protein supplement that I can take more of, if I have to. I think it's something like 25g of protein per serving.

Also, I don't entirely like the idea of cycling. Or, more specifically, I don't like the idea of stacking. Call me a paranoid newbie--that's really what I am. But the article George has posted about Anavar sounded really interesting.

Would it be possible to simply supplement my new workout/dieting routine with JUST oral anavar? Would it do any good at all?

Also, I'm not entirely sure what board etiquette is, but no one ever meantions how it is they come by these things. I haven't found one person list a source at all. I'm assuming that's because it would be less than desireable to post someone's name all over the web... but if no one says anything... how am I to start?

If you made it this far, I'm grateful and downright impressed. If you can help me out at all, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks a bunch.

I would recommend that you try naturally for a while as you habve a long ways to go.

Anavar alone is, too expensive and often faked.

Check out my replies on the following thread in regard to training and diet etc. It's up know again. "Important info on volume and intensity"

RG