MY Doc scared the SH*T out of me today.

[THE GOOD SUN]

BUMP

...for the benefit of other members

 

[shape]

3 straight months, of a "getting ready for show" diet.

3 straight months--THERE YA GO--who does VAr let alone 100Mgs for 3 straight months--just plain foolish--50mgs day for 6 weeks max

 

[liquidmuscle]

my last cycle was var and my shit was all jacked up after blood tests as well.

 

[warhorse3]

Thank you for posting this. I didn't realize the amount of damage var and winny could do to your health. I'll have to be careful if I decide to use winny again.

 

[njmuscleguy]

OK - I have what might sound like a nahive question... I've read through this thread... everyone agrees on 2 things... most orals screw up your lipids and with proper care POST-cycle (e.g. flax oil, olive oil, fish oil, niacin, garlic, etc. etc.), lipids will return back to normal in a relatively short amount of time.

What I have NOT seen anyone mention is if they take proper care DURING a cycle - particularly the folks whose lipid levels came back very low after a cycle.... In other words, do they take all those lipid-saving supplements during a cycle to prevent levels from becoming disastrously low when the cycle is done? Would these supplements even help during a cycle? Maybe not solve the problem completely but at least keep them from going down the toilet?

I typically take flax / olive oils, garlic, extra B vitamins, and Sesamax all the time, whether on or off... (glucorell and Tylers for the liver)...and my lipids usually come back normal or close to normal... and I have family history of high cholesterol, blood pressure, and heart disease...

Just my 2 cents!

 

[Mavafanculo]

What I have NOT seen anyone mention is if they take proper care DURING a cycle - particularly the folks whose lipid levels came back very low after a cycle.... In other words, do they take all those lipid-saving supplements during a cycle to prevent levels from becoming disastrously low when the cycle is done? Would these supplements even help during a cycle? Maybe not solve the problem completely but at least keep them from going down the toilet?

For me, and many others I've read here, nothing prevents the HDL crash when on.

In order to minimize the damage while HDL is depleated, I take

1) Garlic - Kyolic cardiovascular formula dosaage 2 or 3 times a day - Good studies showing that hi-dose galic functions as a super-HDL or replacement HDL, doing the same job of preventing oxidation and carrying away LDL as endogenous HDL would..

2) Antioxidants like r-ALA to help prevent oxidation and plaque accumulation

3) pysillium seed husk products (like metamucil)

4) obviously, also try to stick to a ultra-low animal fat diet. If ur doing var or winny you'd be doing this anyway.

 

[justinjones1963]

For cholesterol you ought to be taking red yeast rice, policosanol, and niacin. Niacin is about the only thing that will raise LDL.

[oops - I should have said that niacin raises HDL - the good cholesterol]

I agree that these should be added to the mix.

I did a winny cycle last year. My pre-cycle levels were around 20 HDL and 80 LDL and roughly 6 weeks after the cycle my HDL was near 40 and my LDL was pretty much the same at 86.

Genetics is also a factor but I know supplementation makes a difference. I also eat a ton of fish on a daily basis.

 

[njmuscleguy]

For me, and many others I've read here, nothing prevents the HDL crash when on.

In order to minimize the damage while HDL is depleated, I take

1) Garlic - Kyolic cardiovascular formula dosaage 2 or 3 times a day - Good studies showing that hi-dose galic functions as a super-HDL or replacement HDL, doing the same job of preventing oxidation and carrying away LDL as endogenous HDL would..

2) Antioxidants like r-ALA to help prevent oxidation and plaque accumulation

3) pysillium seed husk products (like metamucil)

4) obviously, also try to stick to a ultra-low animal fat diet. If ur doing var or winny you'd be doing this anyway.

You should include flax, olive, and fish oils in your diet.... try Sesamax too...

As for Garlic... I eat it often because I'm Italian (and I happen to love it)... plus it has *some* health benefits (immuno-supportive)... however, there's no conclusive evidence that it lowers cholesterol...some studies have supported that it does, but most say no... particularly if taken for longer than 3 months... so the general consensus is that these studies are at best inconclusive... plus, the active ingredient believed to be responsible for garlic's health benefits, allicin, is thought to be inactive in most garlic supplements... it's best derived from fresh garlic, particularly when it's freshly diced or crushed... cooking / processing garlic will kill the active ingredient

 

[Mavafanculo]

You should include flax, olive, and fish oils in your diet.... try Sesamax too...

As for Garlic... I eat it often because I'm Italian (and I happen to love it)... plus it has *some* health benefits (immuno-supportive)... however, there's no conclusive evidence that it lowers cholesterol...some studies have supported that it does, but most say no... particularly if taken for longer than 3 months... so the general consensus is that these studies are at best inconclusive... plus, the active ingredient believed to be responsible for garlic's health benefits, allicin, is thought to be inactive in most garlic supplements... it's best derived from fresh garlic, particularly when it's freshly diced or crushed... cooking / processing garlic will kill the active ingredient

read my post again - Garlic doesnt lower LDL or raise HDL. Rather the studies showed it functioned as a substitute HDL, performing the same functions, preventing plaque deposition.

Plus, you can annoy your co-workers. Whats better than that?

-

 

[txmike]

dbol does aromatise so yes it is easier on lipids. One thiing that does negate some of the affects of var / winny is to run an aromatising compound with it (test is best) along with an estrogen block (nolvadex). Having a higher level of estrogen circulating in the system is the goal here.

Does Trenbolone Acetate have the same lipid effect as var / winny, since it doesn't aromatize either?

Mike