My 6 Month Phase Cycling Experiment....

[BionicBC]

Well not too many people had anything to say about my last post on phase cycling, but the logic seems sound. The only thing left to do, is TRY IT... (thanx ATLMuscles) Heres my idea:

GH @ 3-4 ius for 6 months (5 on, 2 off)

(Mavy and BigAndy, if youre reading, i bet you'll like these first 4 weeks...)
Week 1-2
1 amp Omnadren eod
30mg dbol ed
140mg NPP eod (.7cc)

Week 3-4
Test Prop 75-100mg ed
30mg dbol ed
140mg NPP eod

Week 5-8 (no AAS)
GH-3-4ius
Slin @ 8ius in the am, 12ius postworkout (on w/o days only, 4 days a week)
T3 @ 25 mcg ed

Week 9-12
Prop @ 75-100mg ed
Tren Ace @ 75mg ed
Winny @ 50mg ed

Week 13-16
GH @ 3-4ius ed
Slin @ 8iu am, 12iu postworkout (on w/o days only, 4 days a week)
T3 @ 25mcg ed

Week 17-20
Prop @ 75-100mg ed
Tren Ace @ 75mg ed
Winny @ 50mg ed
(same as week 9-12)

Week 20-24
GH-3-4ius
Slin @ 8ius in the am, 12ius postworkout (on w/o days only, 4 days a week)
T3 @ 25 mcg ed

For those who didnt read the post I had recently on Phase Cycling, its an alternative to running long cycles where you use non-AAS "mass builders" (slin, gh, IGF, exc) in between short & hard AAS runs so youre not on that see-saw of gaining/losing, gaining/losing. The idea being make your gains, maintain on the Gh/slin, exc, then make gains on top of those gains when you start back up. Im wondering if I should use Nolva during those off-times too as PCT.
Let the flames begin, but any suggestions/help would be appreciated. This is a "work-in-progress...."
Bionic

 

[cryptkeeper]

is this idea from BUILDING THE PERFECT BEAST?
looks interesting and very plausible, but i would probably cut the AAS phases down to 3 weeks and prolong the GH/t3/slin phases to 5 weeks. this way, your bodys getting a slightly longer break, and side effects from AAS are minimized a little more. but still, i think u should go for it as i cant see it not working just as good as a 12 weeker, and your retention of gains would prob be better. good luck.

 

[cryptkeeper]

but i do think u will be shut down the whole 6 months regardless, which isnt so cool in my book.

 

[ATLmuscles]

Here's the response I pm'd to Bionic. ANd you're right, it is from BTPB. I highly reccomend that book for anyone with a few years of AAS experience under their belts who are looking for continued growth. Like the same author's "Chemical Muscle Enhancement," the book lacks an index, which is a big oversight in a reference book. And it's pretty disorganized, with the author skipping around on a topic in numerous places in the book. That's wher the index would be helpful, so I have just made my own as I've gone through the book. But it is full of great information and ideas.

<Paste of pm to Bionic:>

Bionic,

SOrry I didn't respond, but I didn't see your post. I think your plan looks really good, but here are some questions/points:
-Why the dbol eod in weeks 3 and 4?? (I personally don't like rollercoastering my blood serum levels of a drug)
-THe plan I have is to "layer" the cycles over each other, so at week 3, I would stop the dbol, but I'd be begining the gh/slin phase, while still having AAS in my system. Then at week 4 (end of the AAS) I would be layering on a cortisol and estrogen suppression layer on top of the gh/slin layer. I could stop the slin after 4 weeks of use, but continue the GH while suppressing estrogen and adding in an HPTA regenerator like HCG.
-I do like your plan alot, but if you don't layer the one over the other, than maybe you should just keep running the dbol ed through week 4, perhaps reducing the dose as you near the end so you can get your balls online during your month off more quickly.

 

[Outtlaw]

Keep us posted on your results.

 

[BionicBC]

Here's the response I pm'd to Bionic. ANd you're right, it is from BTPB. I highly reccomend that book for anyone with a few years of AAS experience under their belts who are looking for continued growth. Like the same author's "Chemical Muscle Enhancement," the book lacks an index, which is a big oversight in a reference book. And it's pretty disorganized, with the author skipping around on a topic in numerous places in the book. That's wher the index would be helpful, so I have just made my own as I've gone through the book. But it is full of great information and ideas.

<Paste of pm to Bionic:>

Bionic,

SOrry I didn't respond, but I didn't see your post. I think your plan looks really good, but here are some questions/points:
-Why the dbol eod in weeks 3 and 4?? (I personally don't like rollercoastering my blood serum levels of a drug)
-THe plan I have is to "layer" the cycles over each other, so at week 3, I would stop the dbol, but I'd be begining the gh/slin phase, while still having AAS in my system. Then at week 4 (end of the AAS) I would be layering on a cortisol and estrogen suppression layer on top of the gh/slin layer. I could stop the slin after 4 weeks of use, but continue the GH while suppressing estrogen and adding in an HPTA regenerator like HCG.
-I do like your plan alot, but if you don't layer the one over the other, than maybe you should just keep running the dbol ed through week 4, perhaps reducing the dose as you near the end so you can get your balls online during your month off more quickly.

Yea, the dbol eod was a typo, the dbol is meant to be run ed.... I see your point on "lapping" the mini-cycles over each other. One good thing about that is at least for that last week of your AAS runs you'd be getting the synergy of AAS with gh & slin. And you think nolva/HCG during the 4 "off-AAS" weeks would be sufficient?
Well guys, its gonna be a few months, but I am gonna try this. This will be my next major cycle. I will keep you guys updated.
Bionic

 

[BionicBC]

but i do think u will be shut down the whole 6 months regardless, which isnt so cool in my book.

Even running HCG/Nolva during the "off-AAS" periods? I dont know...

 

[Makavelli]

Even running HCG/Nolva during the "off-AAS" periods? I dont know...

I'm always open to new ideas for continued growth however I don't think that this gives your body enough time to adapt and grow. I hope someone can prove me wrong. On the HCG thing the author seems to contradict himself. First he recommends phase cycling which is the aforementioned short cycles, but then when he recommends using HCG, clomid, nolva, he states that the clomid and nolva need to be run at least 3 weeks after your last hcg shot. This is because hcg by itself will shut down your balls. So if you start your hcg in the last week of the cycle run it for 2 weeks then run pct for another 3 that's a total of 5 weeks. You'd already be a week deep in your next "phase" by that time. Someone clear this up if you can. I have read this in Muscular Development as well as on BB.com.

 

[BionicBC]

I'm always open to new ideas for continued growth however I don't think that this gives your body enough time to adapt and grow. I hope someone can prove me wrong. On the HCG thing the author seems to contradict himself. First he recommends phase cycling which is the aforementioned short cycles, but then when he recommends using HCG, clomid, nolva, he states that the clomid and nolva need to be run at least 3 weeks after your last hcg shot. This is because hcg by itself will shut down your balls. So if you start your hcg in the last week of the cycle run it for 2 weeks then run pct for another 3 that's a total of 5 weeks. You'd already be a week deep in your next "phase" by that time. Someone clear this up if you can. I have read this in Muscular Development as well as on BB.com.

well how about running 500iu HCG on Mon, Wed, Fri all during cycle (or at least for 1st 3 weeks), then Nolva(and clomid if needed) during off times?
Bionic

 

[Makavelli]

well how about running 500iu HCG on Mon, Wed, Fri all during cycle (or at least for 1st 3 weeks), then Nolva(and clomid if needed) during off times?
Bionic

That could work. However there's evidence that the effects of HCG will attenuate with time. Maybe you should go w/o HCG and just use clomid. Even with clomid. I don't see how you'll be recovering with all those AAS lingering around in your system. Especially with the Omnadren. This author's theories sound good, but many of them are impractical. Some of the products he recommends are hard to find. I'm not saying that this doesn't work, but I have serious doubts. Keep us posted on your results.

 

[BionicBC]

That could work. However there's evidence that the effects of HCG will attenuate with time. Maybe you should go w/o HCG and just use clomid. Even with clomid. I don't see how you'll be recovering with all those AAS lingering around in your system. Especially with the Omnadren. This author's theories sound good, but many of them are impractical. Some of the products he recommends are hard to find. I'm not saying that this doesn't work, but I have serious doubts. Keep us posted on your results.

Doesnt omnadren take about 2 weeks to clear? Thats why im using for 1st 2 weeks then switching to prop. I eve nthought about using 1 omadren ed or eod for 1-1.5 week then switching over to prop.....

 

[Makavelli]

Doesnt omnadren take about 2 weeks to clear? Thats why im using for 1st 2 weeks then switching to prop. I eve nthought about using 1 omadren ed or eod for 1-1.5 week then switching over to prop.....

Omnadren and sust can be active for 3-4 weeks! That's why I don't agree with using it in shorter cycles. Just run the prop.

 

[BionicBC]

Omnadren and sust can be active for 3-4 weeks! That's why I don't agree with using it in shorter cycles. Just run the prop.

MAybe 3, but not 4. I might use it ed for 1st week then ,and follow with prop for next 3 weeks. Only during the "bulking" portion (with NPP & DBol). For the tren & winny runs, ill use only prop.
Bionic

 

[Makavelli]

MAybe 3, but not 4. I might use it ed for 1st week then ,and follow with prop for next 3 weeks. Only during the "bulking" portion (with NPP & DBol). For the tren & winny runs, ill use only prop.
Bionic

I don't see any point in running a long acting ester when you're only going to be on for 4 weeks. Just run prop. Not only are you risking shutting yourself down for a long time, but you'll be off just when it starts hitting you. Again, this is based on experience with myself and lots of athletes that I train. If it works for you, cool. Let me know.

 

[Outtlaw]

Hmm, all good points. This is why I'd like to see the results from this. Personally, I dont like the idea of comming completely off every 4wks. I think I'd get better results if I ran something really low dosed during the 4wk off periods... but I could be wrong. I've used sust in a short cycle before, but I did 1.5grams the 1st wk to be sure I got something out of it for the 4 weeks. But you dont want to worry about being shut down hard during the off period, so its prob not in your best interest to run doses like that. Anyways, I definitely want to see how this all works out.

 

[BionicBC]

Hmm, all good points. This is why I'd like to see the results from this. Personally, I dont like the idea of comming completely off every 4wks. I think I'd get better results if I ran something really low dosed during the 4wk off periods... but I could be wrong. I've used sust in a short cycle before, but I did 1.5grams the 1st wk to be sure I got something out of it for the 4 weeks. But you dont want to worry about being shut down hard during the off period, so its prob not in your best interest to run doses like that. Anyways, I definitely want to see how this all works out.

ive contemplated this too, as far as the bridging idea goes, but i dont want to be shut down for 6 months straight. I might make this a 4 weeks on, 5 weeks off, just to make sure i recover during the "in between" times. Also, to get the protein synthesis of the T3 during AAS runs, change it up to something like this. Its complicated, but try to keep up...

GH all the way thru

Week 1-4
Dbol, Omna/Prop, NPP
HCG-m,w,f

Week 3-7...T3 (T3+AAS synergy)
Week 3-6...Slin on w/o days (Slin+AAS synergy)
Week 5-7 Nolva & maybe Clomid
Week 9...Gh only

Week 10-13
Prop/Tren/Winny
HCG-m,w,f

Week 12-16...T3 (T3+AAS synergy)
Week 11-14...Slin on w/o days (slin+AAS synergy)
Week 14-16 Nolva & maybe Clomid
Week 17-18...GH only

Week 19-22
Prop/Tren/Winny

Followed by full PCT....

 

[Outtlaw]

ive contemplated this too, as far as the bridging idea goes, but i dont want to be shut down for 6 months straight. I might make this a 4 weeks on, 5 weeks off, just to make sure i recover during the "in between" times. Also, to get the protein synthesis of the T3 during AAS runs, change it up to something like this. Its complicated, but try to keep up...

GH all the way thru

Week 1-4
Dbol, Omna/Prop, NPP
HCG-m,w,f

Week 3-7...T3 (T3+AAS synergy)
Week 3-6...Slin on w/o days (Slin+AAS synergy)
Week 5-7 Nolva & maybe Clomid
Week 9...Gh only

Week 10-13
Prop/Tren/Winny
HCG-m,w,f

Week 12-16...T3 (T3+AAS synergy)
Week 11-14...Slin on w/o days (slin+AAS synergy)
Week 14-16 Nolva & maybe Clomid
Week 17-18...GH only

Week 19-22
Prop/Tren/Winny

Followed by full PCT....

This looks better to me than the 1st outline... but I guess the only way to know for sure is to test it out.

 

[BionicBC]

This looks better to me than the 1st outline... but I guess the only way to know for sure is to test it out.

Thanx for your help. I cant wait to try this shit out. Im not gonna start this 'till about August though. :-(
Bionic

 

[BionicBC]

bump

 

[mikebzt]

So is the book worth purchasing (BTPB)?

 

[Mavy]

Eh bro .. I have seen some of the cycles mentioned in that book, and I dont really see a whole lot of logic behind them.

For isntance, what is the point of comming off like this inbetween? To make recovery easier? It seems like to much of a rollercoaster IMO. Sure its good to change things up, but right when you come off, and your body finally senses the absence of test, and wants to start firing its furnace back on, you hammer it town again.

If its hardening and bulking transitions that you want to go through, I would just change up your gear choices and yo-yo your diet to reflect the hardenining vs bulking phases. I would run a minimal amount of test as a base throughout the full cycle, maybe drop down the dosage a bit on the time off. Run the test as a base, then run in phases different stacks, and always group class1 and classII steroids together in the stacks.

For instance I like what you are doing, with the drug choice, but I think that you would be better off staying on, until you are ready to come off and fully recover. It just seems like its getting more complex than it needs to be. Based on your drug coices, and trying to phase cycle for mass then hardening, why not try something like this.

MASS:
NPP+Dbol+Test
Diet: Red meats, whole milks, whole eggs, plenty of fats and carbs.

Hardening:
Tren+Winny+Test
Diet: Leaner white meats (fish, chicken turkey etc), skim milk, egg whites, carblesss carbs like veggies etc.

Cycle the different phases as you want, or as you have mentioned, but I would stay on, at least keep the test going slightly throughout the cycle. i dont think that you are setting yourself up for an easier recovery by doing it the way mentioned above.

Dialtone had a pretty cool post on phase cycling like that for hardening and bulking, and adjusting your diet and gear accordingly to each phase. I think that he ran each phase for 3 weeks or so, cant remember, will try to dig it up.

Either way, what you have listed is interesting, i would be curious to here how you make out if you run it like that. And if you find recovery any easier.

Mavy

 

[BionicBC]

Eh bro .. I have seen some of the cycles mentioned in that book, and I dont really see a whole lot of logic behind them.

For isntance, what is the point of comming off like this inbetween? To make recovery easier? It seems like to much of a rollercoaster IMO. Sure its good to change things up, but right when you come off, and your body finally senses the absence of test, and wants to start firing its furnace back on, you hammer it town again.

If its hardening and bulking transitions that you want to go through, I would just change up your gear choices and yo-yo your diet to reflect the hardenining vs bulking phases. I would run a minimal amount of test as a base throughout the full cycle, maybe drop down the dosage a bit on the time off. Run the test as a base, then run in phases different stacks, and always group class1 and classII steroids together in the stacks.

For instance I like what you are doing, with the drug choice, but I think that you would be better off staying on, until you are ready to come off and fully recover. It just seems like its getting more complex than it needs to be. Based on your drug coices, and trying to phase cycle for mass then hardening, why not try something like this.

MASS:
NPP+Dbol+Test
Diet: Red meats, whole milks, whole eggs, plenty of fats and carbs.

Hardening:
Tren+Winny+Test
Diet: Leaner white meats (fish, chicken turkey etc), skim milk, egg whites, carblesss carbs like veggies etc.

Cycle the different phases as you want, or as you have mentioned, but I would stay on, at least keep the test going slightly throughout the cycle. i dont think that you are setting yourself up for an easier recovery by doing it the way mentioned above.

Dialtone had a pretty cool post on phase cycling like that for hardening and bulking, and adjusting your diet and gear accordingly to each phase. I think that he ran each phase for 3 weeks or so, cant remember, will try to dig it up.

Either way, what you have listed is interesting, i would be curious to here how you make out if you run it like that. And if you find recovery any easier.

Mavy

I considered something like you said, as far as keeping a minimal amount of test going thru the "off-times" but do you not think that the way i had it lined up (4 weeks on, 5 weeks off) would be better, as far as recovery, than 6 months straight? Just wonder how hard it would be to recover from a 6 month cycle!!! I also contemplated this, tell me what you think:

(GH all the way thru)

Week 1-4
Test, NPP, Dbol

Week 5-10
GH, Slin, T3, (Nolva for 1st 3 weeks)

Week 11-14
Prop/Tren Ace/Var

Week 15-20
GH, Slin, T3, Var

Week 21-24
Prop/Tren Ace/Winny

Followed by full PCT. This gives me the initial "bulking" period for 4 weeks, followed by 6 weeks of recovery, using non-AAS (Gh, T3, Slin) as a bridge. Then hit my 1st round of hardening for 4 weeks, take a break for another 6 with var, along with the "non-AAS" as a bridge, then go for the last 4 weeks with another hardening round, substituting the var for the winny, maybe throw in some Masteron. Followed by a LARGE, LONG, pct.
How's this sound?

 

[Mavy]

Eh bro .. ya, I guess I wasnt paying attention really. I didnt think that you were taking that long off in between (4 weeks on, 5 weeks off) sounds pretty decent. Enough time off to warrant being "off", and its actually longer than "time on" too. Might work out pretty good as long as you use all fast acting gear like you have mentioned.

 

[cryptkeeper]

doing 6 months of phase cycling like this is def better than 6 months straight of AAS, as i think you will retain more muscle in this fashion when you are done, BUT the shutdown issue cant be avoided regardless. even with proper pct, it still takes the body a little while to fully return to normal. at least for me, it takes about 4-6 weeks after pct is done (hcg and nolv) to feel normal again. im sure alot of bros on here would agree with me. just jump into this thing accepting that you WILL be shut down for 6 months, but youll only bee administering for 12 of those 24 weeks, which wont be as hard on your system, and recovery might be a lil easier than 6 months straight. def keep us posted though!

 

[Makavelli]

I'd like to see if this works, but I think this is making things much more complex than they have to be. Why not just bulk, come off, cut, come off, bulk, etc. If you bulk for 10 weeks, then come off for 10, you're not going to lose all your gains when you get back on. With proper pct you should be keeping the majority of those gains. And whatever you lose you'll regain quickly once back on. Regaining is easier than building new muscle tissue. Look at Levrone.

 

[BionicBC]

I'd like to see if this works, but I think this is making things much more complex than they have to be. Why not just bulk, come off, cut, come off, bulk, etc. If you bulk for 10 weeks, then come off for 10, you're not going to lose all your gains when you get back on. With proper pct you should be keeping the majority of those gains. And whatever you lose you'll regain quickly once back on. Regaining is easier than building new muscle tissue. Look at Levrone.

Not everyone likes to run long cycles, and besides, im always looking for a new and improved way to do things. If this works, and the gh/slin/T3 helps to maintain/gain even during my "off periods", ill keep running short 4-5 weekers, but increase the off time maybe up to 7 or 8 weeks, and really get my body used to maintaining gains off of AAS.
Bionic

 

[Mrflx]

I've always felt short cycles were better for long term progress. I believe you will appreciate the gains you make and retain by doing this. Personally I wouldn't run gh for 6 mo. strait.

 

[BionicBC]

I've always felt short cycles were better for long term progress. I believe you will appreciate the gains you make and retain by doing this. Personally I wouldn't run gh for 6 mo. strait.

Well how long WOULD you suggest running Gh for? All the research Ive done says to run it at least 5 or 6 months to get the full benefits...
Bionic

 

[Makavelli]

Well how long WOULD you suggest running Gh for? All the research Ive done says to run it at least 5 or 6 months to get the full benefits...
Bionic

GH is one thing that you have to run at least 4 months to see results.

 

[BionicBC]

GH is one thing that you have to run at least 4 months to see results.

s'wat i thought.
Bionic

 

[Mrflx]

I've seen some results within the first 6 weeks, while being on for 8 1/2 weeks. After that it seemed to just level off. I will admit that it was the first time using. If you are going to follow the guidelines in BTPB, it too is recommended for just a few weeks. Unless you are in precontest mode, which then I would possibly take it for about two -three months.