mattie o's epistane log

[mattie o]

feel free to move this if ive posted in the wrong section...

but ive decided to log my experience taking epistane. a bit of info...

i just competed in my first bodybuilding competition, and it was a BLAST. it was a naturals show, and i plan to do another one in july. (12 more weeks)

my prep was only 13 weeks, ideally i would have like a few more weeks...but i think i made some serious transformations in a little over 3 months.

so i decided to kick it up a notch...so here is the ENTIRE supplement arsenal:

Epistane - 10 mg per day, going to do 4 weeks
Dermacrine (was just reading some of your ladies info on this - thank you)
Cytolean - finishing up a bottle, not crazy about this supplement. I ordered some ephedrine/caffeine (yay!) that i will start to take after my epi cycle.
Chromium
CLA
Flax
Acidophilous
Creatine
Multi

sooooo...after my show on March 27th, i took 6 days off of the diet (way off, hehe) but still got in some cardio and a few good lifts. the following Saturday, i was back on the program, and took my first Epistane, and my first couple squirts of Dermacrine.

Its only been 3 days, but one thing i did notice was that the next day, my libido was significantly increased...and i had NO LIBIDO during my contest prep at all. NONE. my poor husband well, not after yesterday! tee hee

also, and this could be a coincidence, but the first 2 nights after i started both of these supps, i woke up in the middle of the night with the WORST charlie horses in my calves...holy balls! joints also seem a bit achy.

the only other thing i noticed was that i seemed to weigh more than i thought i would this morning...diet is back on track, and i was steadily losing my bloat from my six days of debauchery, but this morning i was up 2 lbs. from yesterday morning. Could be nothing, but i did take note of it.

so theres that, i will keep you all posted on how i feel, strength/size gains, what have you.

any advice, im all ears, i am new to this! scott (my hubs) and i have been researching this for some time, and i decided to take the plunge.

good times

 

[superqt4u2nv]

Awesome work girl really looking forward to seeing how you progress here

 

[OrbitNutrition.com]

Subscribing to this log for sure. Look forward to your results.

 

[mattie o]

Yay! Thanks you guys

So, back day today. One think I noticed was PUMPS! Holy crap, my lower back especially...felt like it was going to pop! And my forearms as well, when I did hanging negs. WOW. Also noticed my arms were quite veiny overall, had a great lift, felt nice and strong.

Didn't really go into detail about my diet in my original post...haven't gone balls out contest prep diet, but its very clean, 1800 cals per day, 225 g protein, 75 to 100 carbs. After this week, I may cut the carbs down to 50 ish, and cals to 1700...and so on....you get the idea

 

[superqt4u2nv]

Diet sounds on track ...love to see pics if you feel comfortable posting them.

 

[mattie o]

sure, sure, ill get some pics going how do you get them in a post?

so day 4:

woke up the last 3 nights, around 2 am each time in a PUDDLE of sweat! i mean, were talkin, i thought i had peed the bed. also insanely hungry...hard not to go downstairs and eat a jar of peanut butter, lol also extra sweaty when i did my morning cardio...hmm.

feel like shit this morning actually, not sure if im catching a cold or if its because of my new supps...i remember reading here and there that some people experienced a scratchy throat from the Dermacrine...? so well see. also noticed a very slight headache the past few days...

weight has stayed the same for a few days...131 lbs. felt pretty tight this morning tho, but i do think today ill cut my cals/carbs down a bit. gonna ditch some of the dairy as well.

 

[mattie o]

feeling better this afternoon than i was this morning...perhaps my body was just getting used to it.

chest day today, felt VERY strong and had a good lift! cut down on the calories/carbs, finding this hard as im REALLY REALLY hungry!

 

[RottenWillow]

Mattie, you do mean Epistane correct? Not Epistrong? Just clarifying because it's not uncommon for people to be referring to one and type the other.

 

[mattie o]

Yup, Epistane 10 mg capsules

 

[mattie o]

good morning everyone!

so, same thing last night, woke up in a pool of sweat. felt like crap again this morning, throat was REALLY sore and im slightly stuffed up...my husband started taking Dermacrine too, and this morning he also had the same symptoms...so i dont know if were coming down with a cold, or its the Dermacrine. O well. Had a little headache this morning too, but its gone now.

Had a good cardio session this morning, went balls out on the elliptical...ive never sweat so much! WOW!

down a pount this morning, and i feel alot leaner than i did yesterday...macros for yesterday were 1650 cals, 221 g protein, 65 g carbs, 53 g fat.

LEG DAY TODAY! gonna tear it up!!!

 

[RottenWillow]

Most interesting log since QT's SARM's journal for sure. Will be following this one post-to-post.

Good luck, Mattie.

 

[mattie o]

thanks lady!

speaking of SARM's, my husband has been taking that for almost a month now. where can i find QT's log? scott has had some interesting side effects...

woot!

 

[RottenWillow]

thanks lady!

speaking of SARM's, my husband has been taking that for almost a month now. where can i find QT's log? scott has had some interesting side effects...

woot!

Should be able to find it using the "Search" function on the right end of the black bar at the top of every forum. If not, it's not that old and you can definitely find it by going to the next page in this forum.

 

[superqt4u2nv]

thanks lady!

speaking of SARM's, my husband has been taking that for almost a month now. where can i find QT's log? scott has had some interesting side effects...

woot!

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/w...raining/superqts-sarms-experiment-683265.html

 

[mattie o]

thanks pal! he seems to like it so far...

 

[superqt4u2nv]

thanks pal! he seems to like it so far...

I was really impressed as well I plan to run it a month after my contest cycle see what it does for female PCT

 

[mattie o]

BEST LEG DAY EVER!!! holy f***ing balls!

so sometimes i get anxious about leg day, because altho i enjoy totally killin it on leg day, i think we can all agree legs can suck sometimes. so today was my first leg day since the new supps, and i though, well shit, today is as good a time as any to increase the weight on every single exercise i do.

and i did. and i KILLED IT! Not only did i not have trouble at all with the increased weight, i felt, on some lifts, i had less trouble than when i was doing the lighter weight! INTENSE!!!

heres what we did:

walking lunges in the bball court, 3 times up and back (works out to approx 3 sets of 30ish), then 10 squats at the end of each set, 60 lbs (previously 50 lbs)
straight leg deads, 3 sets of 10, 135 lbs. (previously 115 lbs??? cant quite remember...)
dead lifts, 5 sets of 10, 185 lbs (again, cant remember what previous weight was...but i know it wasnt that much!!! lol)
calf raises, 3 sets of 12, 150 lbs (probably could have gone heavier, to be honest, dang it)
step backs, 3 sets of 20, 75 lbs (previously 55 lbs ???)

wow. it was alot, and it was intense. well see if i can walk tomorrow

hope my new found strength isnt due to some sort of placebo effect..but even then, who cares? im liking the way i feel in the gym now.

my sore throat/cold-ish symptoms have dissappeared as the day wore on, same thing as yesterday. strange. at this juncture, i have not noticed any sides other than the ones ive mentioned so far....(2am sweat pool, slight libido increase, strength, big muscle pumps, insatiable hunger, and possible sore throat)

yaaaaaaaaaaay!

 

[superqt4u2nv]

Awesome work on the deads girl

 

[needtogetaas]

Mattie, you do mean Epistane correct? Not Epistrong? Just clarifying because it's not uncommon for people to be referring to one and type the other.

epi-strong is 15mg

And its powerful

 

[OrbitNutrition.com]

BEST LEG DAY EVER!!! holy f***ing balls!

so sometimes i get anxious about leg day, because altho i enjoy totally killin it on leg day, i think we can all agree legs can suck sometimes. so today was my first leg day since the new supps, and i though, well shit, today is as good a time as any to increase the weight on every single exercise i do.

and i did. and i KILLED IT! Not only did i not have trouble at all with the increased weight, i felt, on some lifts, i had less trouble than when i was doing the lighter weight! INTENSE!!!

heres what we did:

walking lunges in the bball court, 3 times up and back (works out to approx 3 sets of 30ish), then 10 squats at the end of each set, 60 lbs (previously 50 lbs)
straight leg deads, 3 sets of 10, 135 lbs. (previously 115 lbs??? cant quite remember...)
dead lifts, 5 sets of 10, 185 lbs (again, cant remember what previous weight was...but i know it wasnt that much!!! lol)
calf raises, 3 sets of 12, 150 lbs (probably could have gone heavier, to be honest, dang it)
step backs, 3 sets of 20, 75 lbs (previously 55 lbs ???)

wow. it was alot, and it was intense. well see if i can walk tomorrow

hope my new found strength isnt due to some sort of placebo effect..but even then, who cares? im liking the way i feel in the gym now.

my sore throat/cold-ish symptoms have dissappeared as the day wore on, same thing as yesterday. strange. at this juncture, i have not noticed any sides other than the ones ive mentioned so far....(2am sweat pool, slight libido increase, strength, big muscle pumps, insatiable hunger, and possible sore throat)

yaaaaaaaaaaay!

Hell of a workout right there, keep it up.

 

[mattie o]

Hell of a workout right there, keep it up.

thanks man! it was a good'n! im sure tender today, but not as sore as i was afraid i was gonna be.

so: day 6. woke up feeling better, nose a little stuffed up, but i got an extra hour of sleep last night, so i felt more rested. no sweat puddle last night.

did an hour on the treadmill at 530am, and plan to do an ab circuit on my lunch break today. ive decided to make abs a "day" this time around, as looking back i think i neglected them during my last prep. so the week looks like:

mon: back
tues: chest
wed: legs
thurs: abs (and baby muscles i may have missed)
fri: arms and shoulders...(wondering if i should split these up)

cardio, at this point, is one hour every day (LISS), as the show gets closer, i anticipate going to 1.5 or 2 hours. yes, that is an ass load of cardio. but it worked wonders for the first show..who knows, maybe i can get away with less this time. ill see what my coach says.

also hoping to get my body fat tested sometime soon...curious about that.

weight was the same today (130 lbs) i think due to the fact that im constipated...i have steel bowels, people. it sucks. high protein diets, of course, are less than ideal. but ive tried EVERYTHING (this has been an ongoing problem for over 2 years) and nothing works, except drinking 2 10-oz bottles of magnesium citrate on an empty stomach, which i plan to do tomorrow morning. i understand when one is dieting and training relatively hard, theres less waste...but its going on 6 days since my last movement. im uncomfortable, and my belly is sticking out a bit. grrrrrr. it really is the bain of my existance.

one more thing on the abs...if you have any killer ab exercises, throw em my way...id like to see what i can do about getting a six pack this time around (or even a 4 pack would be sweet, lol)

thanks in advance!

 

[RottenWillow]

and i did. and i KILLED IT! Not only did i not have trouble at all with the increased weight, i felt, on some lifts, i had less trouble than when i was doing the lighter weight! INTENSE!!!

heres what we did:

walking lunges in the bball court, 3 times up and back (works out to approx 3 sets of 30ish), then 10 squats at the end of each set, 60 lbs (previously 50 lbs)
straight leg deads, 3 sets of 10, 135 lbs. (previously 115 lbs??? cant quite remember...)
dead lifts, 5 sets of 10, 185 lbs (again, cant remember what previous weight was...but i know it wasnt that much!!! lol)
calf raises, 3 sets of 12, 150 lbs (probably could have gone heavier, to be honest, dang it)
step backs, 3 sets of 20, 75 lbs (previously 55 lbs ???)

Can't say I know anything about the molecular structure of Epistane, but if it converts to DHT then yeah it's certainly possible that wasn't placebo effect. If it can convert, those serum levels will jump quick, giving you big boy stamina and strength. It's awesome! DHT also blocks T to estrogen conversion which would be great for your contest prep.

Dihydrotestosterone can cause androgenic alopecia, but it also make you strong like bull. I feel that's the reason that Dermacrine (which is primarily DHEA) increased my strength so much. DHEA is known to pretty readily convert to DHT.

 

[superqt4u2nv]

Have you tried sugar free metamucil?

Abs are made in the kitchen not in the gym. I almost never do direct ab work but they are always working every lift I make sure there strong and tight keeps the form in check as well. My first two contest preps I barely had a 4 pack the last one I pretty much had an 8 pack and my serratus anterior muscle were clearly defined as well. It was all in my diet.

 

[mattie o]

yes, i did try sf metamucil...sorta like spittin on a forest fire turned to cement in there!

you know, i think im learning that is the case (re: kitchen abs, not gym abs) tho i do think i could stand to build them a bit. i noticed i have more definition there since i started doing a lot more dead lifts...

 

[RottenWillow]

yes, i did try sf metamucil...sorta like spittin on a forest fire turned to cement in there!

you know, i think im learning that is the case (re: kitchen abs, not gym abs) tho i do think i could stand to build them a bit. i noticed i have more definition there since i started doing a lot more dead lifts...

Same thing happened to me first time I tried it. You need at least 12oz of water for just one level tablespoon or like you noticed, you'll get quickset cement.

I buy the totally natty kind you can unfortunately only get in a health food store, i.e. no artificial flavors or color of any kind.

 

[superqt4u2nv]

I have also used Internal Flush Flush the Fat with Internal Flush for a few days if I get really backed up.

 

[mattie o]

oh ya, i drank plenty of water...still no movement i even had a colonoscopy, they couldnt find anything wrong! not sure what the deal is...but ive tried it all...i even made a spreadsheet that lists everything ive tried and the results (or lack there of) to take to the doctor, haha! but the mag citrate gets me thru for now

but that flush thing sounds cool! dude, ill try ANYTHING!

off to do arms and shoulders! feeling good today

 

[trex74]

have you tried lots of really strong coffee?
lol

 

[mattie o]

have you tried lots of really strong coffee?
lol

haha, ya...along with prune juice, psyllium husks, fiber chewables, stool softener, exlax, milk of magnesia, mineral oil (inserted in both ends) miralax, metamucil, citrucil, magnesium pills, smooth move tea, probiotics (still take these tho) various chinese herbs, acupuncture, stomach massage, sodium diphosphate, hypo gest...the list goes on. i tried to stay FAR away from stimulant laxatives, never did too much of those.

to date, the only thing that works is liquid magnesium citrate, and fleet saline enemas. thankfully, these are both really cheap.

so, arms and shoulders was SWEEEEET, holy veins! and an awesome pump too.

feeling good, feeling great, nose is still a bit stuffy, but im starting to think now that its my allergies...this is the time of year when hay fever usually pays me a visit for oh, say, 4 months or so...ugh

tomorrow will be one week on both derma and epi. good so far!

hope everyone has a great weekend hehe, i like that little kitty

 

[scott29]

Lets stay on track people, this is an epistane thread, not a poop thread..

 

[mattie o]

Lets stay on track people, this is an epistane thread, not a poop thread..

Haha, thanks babe!

 

[needtogetaas]

mineral oil works wonders and its dirt cheap

 

[mattie o]

mineral oil works wonders and its dirt cheap

tried it, both ends...

today marks one week of my cycle...weight has been 130 for 5 days now...i wonder, should i be gaining? perhaps im not eating enough...?

 

[mattie o]

decided to go to 20 g per day of epi, so i took one capsule this morning, and one this evening. still feeling good...strong, hungry.

no lift today, just some balls out cardio for 45 minutes. think im still trying to fight off a little cold, so i wasnt feeling quiiiiiite 100% today. tomorrow i have a posing class...my first one since before the show. hope im not too rusty!

ive noticed no other sides...

 

[mattie o]

Day nine! Had posing class today (bit rusty) and then a great full body lift and some cardio...
Decided to do a carb up this evening, I'm sweating bullets and can feel my heartbeat in most parts of my body! Wow...

Still no sides...this was my 2nd day of 20g epi/day

 

[mattie o]

hey hey, just checkin in.

scott mentioned this morning that he went to snuggle with me a few times during the night...and immedeately changed his mind, haha...apparently i was a FURNACE. now, this could be due in part to the carb up i had, in addition to the supps.

early morning cardio session this morning, 1 hour on the elliptical...again, more sweat than i could beleive. or get a handle on, haha. wow! no more grey workout pants, i know everyone in there thought i full on peed my pants. sweat, sweat, sweat.

up 4 lbs this morning, 134 (obviously due to refeed) but after cardio...133.

feeling ok today for the most part, a bit tired...stayed up later than usual (new family guy episode, lol) feel bloated from the refeed a bit...

back day today, felt REALLY strong, increased weight on everything...we did pull downs, hanging negs (ugh) bent over corner rows, seated rows, back extensions...oh and i did some HEAVY shrugs. i hardly ever worked traps directly last time, so im making a point to add them into my regular routine.

still no other sides to report. yesterday i thought maybe my voice was deeper...but i think i was just scratchy from my allergies

 

[needtogetaas]

tried it, both ends...

today marks one week of my cycle...weight has been 130 for 5 days now...i wonder, should i be gaining? perhaps im not eating enough...?

1 week past the cycle you mean?

 

[mattie o]

I meant the epi cycle, sorry. Not the menstral kind! Haven't had one of those for almost 4 months...

 

[superqt4u2nv]

still no other sides to report. yesterday i thought maybe my voice was deeper...but i think i was just scratchy from my allergies

Keep an eye on that hun if it changes it wont change back.

 

[mattie o]

Keep an eye on that hun if it changes it wont change back.

definately. it sounds normal today, so it must have been from my allergies, or i may have had a little cold.

 

[mattie o]

day 12 today...

had a great chest workout yesterday, awesome pumps. still feeling very strong. decided to up my calories a bit more...had around 2100 yesterday, and woke up feeling tight as hell, and weighed in at 131.8

sweatiest night ever. woke up a couple hours after id fallen asleep, and was so shocked at how wet my sheets were that i took a picture of it and sent it to scott (he was working nights) un-friggin-real. i think if i had WET the bed, there wouldnt have been that much fluid. wow. scott started taking the dermacrine as well, and he said hes woken up pretty sweaty too.

thinking of lowering the dose a bit tho, as i my throat feels a bit raspy. scott swears it doesnt sound any different, but im definately going to keep an eye (ear?) on it.

hope everyone has a super day! leg day todaaaaaaay!

 

[RottenWillow]

tried it, both ends...

today marks one week of my cycle...weight has been 130 for 5 days now...i wonder, should i be gaining? perhaps im not eating enough...?

Depends on your tolerance for fat gain. Unless you're juiced to the gills and eating like a brontosaurus, it's not uncommon to see no scale changes over a five day span. You have to assume that if you're eating moderately your bw is gonna go up more slowly, but it'll be a cleaner bulk, ie. less fat gain.

 

[RottenWillow]

definately. it sounds normal today, so it must have been from my allergies, or i may have had a little cold.

mmmmm....no it probably wasn't. Don't believe in coincidental voice changes when you are on-cycle.

If you're concerned about this you need to drop back to one cap daily now. Neither you or your husband are good evaluators of your voice. Trust me. You need to talk to someone to whom you very rarely speak. Only they will be able to pick out the changes.

 

[mattie o]

mmmmm....no it probably wasn't. Don't believe in coincidental voice changes when you are on-cycle.

If you're concerned about this you need to drop back to one cap daily now. Neither you or your husband are good evaluators of your voice. Trust me. You need to talk to someone to whom you very rarely speak. Only they will be able to pick out the changes.

i did

up another lb this morning...thats about 2 lbs gained in a little over a week.

rottenwillow, thanks so much for your input!

 

[mattie o]

good morning everyone! happy friday

well, day 14 today, everything seems to be going well. dropped back down to 1 capsule, as i mentioned above. no new sides to report, basically the same...still have a middle of the night sweat pool, and awesome gnarly pumps in the gym (almost painful, and they stay a while!)...feeling super strong.

weight gain: well, this morning i was 134. now bear in mind that i have not gone "number 2" since monday, so thats about 4 days worth of bulking food in there. drank a laxative today, so well see what the weight is tomorrow morning. still seems a bit fast, its been about a pound a day, so i hope im not eating too much...i have not neglected my cardio, still doing an hour a day, but im afraid im gaining fat...im definately starting to see a change in my body, i just sorta look "buffer" in general, haha...but im totally mind fucking myself about my calorie intake...i need to stop. 2000 clean calories a day + 1 hour of cardio per day + lifting like a crazy ass 5 times a week + epi, derma, other various supplements should NOT equal much fat gain...right???!! i know everyones is different, but i just cant seem to get my head straight...i know its trial and error too, ive never really "bulked" before, but im not gonna lie, im impatient.

anyhoo, glad i got that incoherint rant off my chest.

overall, i feel really good, and i can tell for sure that i am putting a bit of nice meat.

hope everyone has a great weekend!

 

[RADAR]

Been following this one ,Great log and congrats, you have a great weekend there girl!

 

[mattie o]

hey guys. thought i should mention that i added ephedrine/caffeine to my program here. helps a bit with my raging appetite...i mean, i know im bulking, but i know i could eat twice what i am now and not be that full. i got tired of watching the clock until my next feeding (shit, ill do that plenty when i start to cut again!) and stressing about it, so i popped a couple effies, problem solved. was able to cut the cals back to 1900 and feel quite satisfied at the end of the day, i actually could have passed on a couple of my meals today (didnt, of course.) AWESOME. i forgot how much i love these little guys.

still feeling good, generally sweaty all the time now, lol.

 

[mattie o]

Been following this one ,Great log and congrats, you have a great weekend there girl!

thanks pal!

 

[mattie o]

weighed 132.8 this morning, felt VERY tight and lean...think i can safely guess that ive packed on a couple lbs of quality muscle

had a little headache this morning, im guessing due to my bod getting used to the effies, but after some cardio and some whey protein pancakes (mmmm) i feel great!

 

[mattie o]

been 2 weeks and one day, still feeling great. had a cheat meal yesterday which sadly, turned into a cheat afternoon :-/ bloated a bit this morning, 137.6 lbs. went for some fasted cardio, was sweating so much i think people were starting to stare, hehe...

still feel like i dont know what im doing as far as diet goes...?? feels like kind of a gray area and i dont like that. back to eating clean today, hope im ingesting the right foods/macros.

 

[RottenWillow]

still feel like i dont know what im doing as far as diet goes...?? feels like kind of a gray area and i dont like that. back to eating clean today, hope im ingesting the right foods/macros.

What is your level of tolerance for fat gain during this bulking phase, Mattie? The answer to that question is going to determine your diet right now.

If you want to minimize fat gain you obviously want to determine your caloric maintenance level and eat no more than 500 more than required for your activity level on any given day. If you really want to get tight, no more than a 300 caloric surplus on any given day. Just know of course this aint a science. The more you minimize that surplus, the more you jeopardize wasting your gear.

As far as the macros, the protein and the fat isn't likely to encourage fat storage, but the sugar is. Keep those GI's low! I'd recommend you completely eliminate simple sugars and < 60 GI carbs from your diet except possibly in a PWO drink.

 

[mattie o]

What is your level of tolerance for fat gain during this bulking phase, Mattie? The answer to that question is going to determine your diet right now.

If you want to minimize fat gain you obviously want to determine your caloric maintenance level and eat no more than 500 more than required for your activity level on any given day. If you really want to get tight, no more than a 300 caloric surplus on any given day. Just know of course this aint a science. The more you minimize that surplus, the more you jeopardize wasting your gear.

As far as the macros, the protein and the fat isn't likely to encourage fat storage, but the sugar is. Keep those GI's low! I'd recommend you completely eliminate simple sugars and < 60 GI carbs from your diet except possibly in a PWO drink.

thanks, RW! yup, im afraid to eat too much, but also afraid of not eating enough to make the best use of my supps. i think i need to look at the big picture as well, my bulking phase thus far has been very clean.

sounds like im on the right track with the sugars, i never have them ever. the only sources of carbs i have are oats, yams, brown rice...

 

[RADAR]

What is your level of tolerance for fat gain during this bulking phase, Mattie? The answer to that question is going to determine your diet right now.

If you want to minimize fat gain you obviously want to determine your caloric maintenance level and eat no more than 500 more than required for your activity level on any given day. If you really want to get tight, no more than a 300 caloric surplus on any given day. Just know of course this aint a science. The more you minimize that surplus, the more you jeopardize wasting your gear.

As far as the macros, the protein and the fat isn't likely to encourage fat storage, but the sugar is. Keep those GI's low! I'd recommend you completely eliminate simple sugars and < 60 GI carbs from your diet except possibly in a PWO drink.

Yep! I agree on this one.

 

[mattie o]

day 16, still feeling great...seems like i might be getting even sweatier, altho this could be due to the addition of the ephedrine, it can tend to heat me up a bit. seems im hottest at night, so last night i didnt sleep well because i was just so WARM i couldnt get comfortable! woke up feeling less than great, but hit the gym for cardio at 530am, and started to feel better once i got into that.

last night, since i was full of cheat meal, scotty and i went to the gym and enjoyed a full body i-think-i-might-puke workout...it was great! i cant beleive how strong i am. cardio is also way easier...this morning i cranked up the incline on the treadmill to 10% and walked at 4mph...for 30 minutes...normally thats really hard for me, and is something i might try and do for say, 10 minutes, but this felt like a stroll in the park and this was after id gone balls out on the elliptical for 30 minutes.

getting used to the effies again, dont feel as cracked out as the first couple days really enjoying how they take the edge off my appetite. im still hungry, dont get me wrong...but not as miserable. these are really going to come in handy when i start to cut again.

 

[mattie o]

What is your level of tolerance for fat gain during this bulking phase, Mattie? The answer to that question is going to determine your diet right now.

If you want to minimize fat gain you obviously want to determine your caloric maintenance level and eat no more than 500 more than required for your activity level on any given day. If you really want to get tight, no more than a 300 caloric surplus on any given day. Just know of course this aint a science. The more you minimize that surplus, the more you jeopardize wasting your gear.

As far as the macros, the protein and the fat isn't likely to encourage fat storage, but the sugar is. Keep those GI's low! I'd recommend you completely eliminate simple sugars and < 60 GI carbs from your diet except possibly in a PWO drink.

i know theres lots of different ways to calculate this...just out of curiousity, what do you guys think is the best way?

 

[RADAR]

i know theres lots of different ways to calculate this...just out of curiousity, what do you guys think is the best way?

Like you need it....anyway i'll throw this out here in hopes it will benefit someone
We know Diet plays an important role ,so without using dangerous drugs,How do we loose weight?



Question:
How many calories should I eat if I want to lose weight?

Answer:
It's Relative
Technically, there is no magic number of calories we should all eat each day to lose weight. While most people can lose weight eating around 1,500 calories, you can assess your own personal caloric needs with a little math.

Why Estimate Your Caloric Needs?
To estimate how many calories you should consume in order to maintain your weight, you'll need to do a little math. By using a simple formula called the Harris-Benedict principle, you can assess your basal metabolic rate -- also known as your BMR.
(Then, to lose weight, you'll need to cut calories or burn extra calories and shoot for a level lower than the results you get with this formula.)


Calculate Your BMR
Your BMR is the amount of energy your body needs to function. We use about 60% of the calories we consume each day for basic bodily functions such as breathing.
Other factors that influence your BMR are height, weight, age and sex.

Step one is to calculate your BMR with the following formula:

Women:
655 + (4.3 x weight in pounds) + (4.7 x height in inches) - (4.7 x age in years)

Men:
66 + (6.3 x weight in pounds) + (12.9 x height in inches) - (6.8 x age in years)

Please note that this formula applies only to adults.


Calculate Activity
Step two: In order to incorporate activity into your daily caloric needs, do the following calculation:

If you are sedentary : BMR x 20 percent

If you are lightly active: BMR x 30 percent

If you are moderately active (You exercise most days a week.): BMR x 40 percent

If you are very active (You exercise intensely on a daily basis or for prolonged periods.): BMR x 50 percent

If you are extra active (You do hard labor or are in athletic training.): BMR x 60 percent

Add this number to your BMR.

The result of this formula will be the number of calories you can eat every day and maintain your current weightt. In order to lose weight, you'll need to take in fewer calories than this result.

As you lose weight, you can re-calculate the formula to assess your new BMR.






.

 

[mattie o]

Like you need it....anyway i'll throw this out here in hopes it will benefit someone
We know Diet plays an important role ,so without using dangerous drugs,How do we loose weight?



Question:
How many calories should I eat if I want to lose weight?

Answer:
It's Relative
Technically, there is no magic number of calories we should all eat each day to lose weight. While most people can lose weight eating around 1,500 calories, you can assess your own personal caloric needs with a little math.

Why Estimate Your Caloric Needs?
To estimate how many calories you should consume in order to maintain your weight, you'll need to do a little math. By using a simple formula called the Harris-Benedict principle, you can assess your basal metabolic rate -- also known as your BMR.
(Then, to lose weight, you'll need to cut calories or burn extra calories and shoot for a level lower than the results you get with this formula.)


Calculate Your BMR
Your BMR is the amount of energy your body needs to function. We use about 60% of the calories we consume each day for basic bodily functions such as breathing.
Other factors that influence your BMR are height, weight, age and sex.

Step one is to calculate your BMR with the following formula:

Women:
655 + (4.3 x weight in pounds) + (4.7 x height in inches) - (4.7 x age in years)

Men:
66 + (6.3 x weight in pounds) + (12.9 x height in inches) - (6.8 x age in years)

Please note that this formula applies only to adults.


Calculate Activity
Step two: In order to incorporate activity into your daily caloric needs, do the following calculation:

If you are sedentary : BMR x 20 percent

If you are lightly active: BMR x 30 percent

If you are moderately active (You exercise most days a week.): BMR x 40 percent

If you are very active (You exercise intensely on a daily basis or for prolonged periods.): BMR x 50 percent

If you are extra active (You do hard labor or are in athletic training.): BMR x 60 percent

Add this number to your BMR.

The result of this formula will be the number of calories you can eat every day and maintain your current weightt. In order to lose weight, you'll need to take in fewer calories than this result.

As you lose weight, you can re-calculate the formula to assess your new BMR.






.

thanks dude, i actually just saw this on another post and i was playing around with it...wow! i think i need to eat a bit more....

 

[mattie o]

day 17: not the best day. woke up with a splitting headache that still has not gone away...felt really strange as i went to do my morning cardio, which i didnt make it all the way thru because i felt like i was going to pass out, puke, or something equally undesireable.

felt like dehydration, altho i drank a gallon and a half of water yesterday. however, i was sweating like a mo fo during the night, perhaps im low on electrolytes?

weight was 134.6 this morning.

 

[mattie o]

feeling a bit better this evening...still have a slight headache, and just a feeling of overall shittiness. im really bummed, because i was really feeling like a WARRIOR every day! i didnt lift today, i did finish up my cardio tho...i figured id rather lift on a day when i really felt 100%, rather than half ass it.

one thing to note: this morning i weighed 134.6, and just now, i weighed 134.4...? now, usually im about 3 or 4 lbs heavier in the evenings, you know, water, food, plus i never poop. but .2 lbs less? any thoughts on this??

 

[mattie o]

day 18: good morning! MUCH better day today...woke up feeling GREAT, enjoyed some cardio outside (weather was actually decent, and the fresh air was wonderful)

weight was 136 this morning....felt/looked pretty tight.

i only have 9 days left of the cycle i had planned...toying with the idea of maybe extending it 2 more weeks, well see. also, i ordered some clenbuterol, which i plan to use to cut later on. probably wont use it with t3 tho, ive used t3 before and i felt it made me lethargic.

have a good day everyone!

 

[superqt4u2nv]

Are you still having issues going number 2?

 

[mattie o]

Are you still having issues going number 2?

always ...although i did go "by myself" yesterday and today...???! could be from the excess sugar alcohols maybe?

heres another thought that crossed my mind: every time ive been to see a doctor about this problem, they end up, after numerous tests, that i simply have a "lazy bowel." well, the bowels are a muscle, right? well...maybe the epistane is helping! you never know either way, i was just happy to have pooped on my own, for christs sake.

(when i say "on my own", i mean without actually inducing a bowel movement. ya know.)

so well see what happens with that. i was shocked...i NEVER just "go."

in other news, had the BEST leg workout today, it was gnarly! feeling strong, awesome pumps!

 

[mattie o]

day 19: well, the morning after leg day is always a tough one...especially after yesterdays epic leg workout. so i almost skipped morning cardio...buuuut i dragged ass out of bed and hit the treadmill. holy SHIT i am sore today.

one thing to note, the past 3 or so nights, i have not been as sweaty, nor have i been as sweaty during my cardio. other than that, i still havent noticed an increase of sides, no acne, etc.

also the past few days people have really started to comment on how i look...random people too, last night a cashier at the grocery store said "well, someones been in the gym!" and today a customer at work said "woah, your arms are stacked!" pretty cool...i tend to over-scrutinize myself in the mirror, so its hard for me to tell what i really look like, lol...plus, i tend to only zoom in on the "bad parts" (right, scott? hehe)

weight was 136.6 this morning.

 

[mattie o]

yo, yo, day 20

weight was the same this morning...136.6. that puts me at 15.6 more pounds than the morning of my show almost a month ago...and i still look/feel pretty lean.

chest day was awesome yesterday, HUUUGE pumps (ow!). didnt sweat as much last night, again, nor did i get super sweaty during my cardio this morning....hmm.

arms/shoulders today.

nothing new to report, feeling great. the ephedrine has really helped take the edge off my massive appetite. so my macros have been really great the past several days.

 

[RADAR]

Great! Keep it up!

 

[mattie o]

Great! Keep it up!
http://www.primordialperformance.com/store/banner.php?bid=86

thanks man!

day 22 today. the thing im really starting to notice is that my pumps are increasing...now, i love a good pump, but WOAH. even doing 30 minutes of cardio this afternoon, my calves, shins, quads, bottoms of my feet even (??!) were just BLOWING up. ow! its really gnarly in my forearms. straps help a bit tho. strength is still great.

havent noticed anything major, i did see one pimple on my shoulder. no clitoral enlargement (yes, scott and i check it out often...such a chore, right babe? haha) i did however notice, that that area is alot more sensitive. tee hee.

i went to posing class yesterday, i was really looking forward to it...i love the mirrors there i dont really have any full length mirrors in my house. one of my classmates said, "dude, you look bigger!" yay! my coach said to be careful tho, he can tell theres a bit more body fat on me. this of course, freaked me out some, so im dropping the carbs and calories a bit, and adding 30 more minutes of cardio. im about 10.5 weeks out from my next show.

i can definately tell that my lats, arms and shoulders are bigger. i like it. might be time to start shredding off the fat tho. im already looking down the road, and id like to try this again in the future, when i have more time to bulk slowly, ya know? i feel rushed, and at this point, i think its going to be more important (for the upcoming comp) to try and get as much fat off as i can.

sooooo, thats where im at! havent decided yet if i want to extend my epi cycle 2 more weeks. ill see how i look this saturday, which will be 4 weeks. i should be able to tell a bit better, since ill be dropping my carbs, ect this week, ill be a bit tighter saturday morning.

also, this saturday im going to start taking clenbutorol. i dont like bulking, or at least i didnt like how it went this time around. but, we gotta learn sometime!

hope everyone had a great weekend!

 

[mattie o]

day 23: woke up feeling great, albeit tired. went to the gym at 530 and hit the elliptical...well, the gallons of sweat came back, and now i feel like crap, similar to the other day... ugh. trying to figure out what might be causing this...i drink A LOT of water, maybe not enough?? 1 to 1.5 gallons per day...and i didnt cut my sodium out or anything...hmm.

other than that, everything is great, had a super back workout yesterday (trying to get some width) and am going to do chest today.

ive been reading TONS about clenbuterol...alot of posts on this forum. most of which, it seems, are "my girlfriend wants to get ripped" or "hi im new and taking clen but not really dieting or training like i should"...i was hoping for some logs or something.

 

[mattie o]

uhhh....just noticed ive been counting wrong, haha!
today is day 26. clearly epistane has done nothing for me in the way of math skills

weight: 135 this morning. feel better having cut my carbs...i normally do the low carb thing, so eating "a lot" of carbs is kind of a mindfuck for me. i was more than happy to drop them. calories are around 1700...100g carbs, 240ish grams protein. i have replaced one more of my meals with fish, which makes hittin the ol macros alot easier.

nothing new in the way of sides, no pimples, no change in voice, no hair growth, etc. still pretty sweaty...especially during cardio. sleeping well, no cramps or anything.

pumps are still increasing...wow. yesterday i did chest, and incorporated some drop sets. HOLY BALLS. my front delts and chest were scorching. OW. leg day today! woot

 

[RottenWillow]

uhhh....just noticed ive been counting wrong, haha!
today is day 26. clearly epistane has done nothing for me in the way of math skills

weight: 135 this morning. feel better having cut my carbs...i normally do the low carb thing, so eating "a lot" of carbs is kind of a mindfuck for me. i was more than happy to drop them. calories are around 1700...100g carbs, 240ish grams protein. i have replaced one more of my meals with fish, which makes hittin the ol macros alot easier.

nothing new in the way of sides, no pimples, no change in voice, no hair growth, etc. still pretty sweaty...especially during cardio. sleeping well, no cramps or anything.

pumps are still increasing...wow. yesterday i did chest, and incorporated some drop sets. HOLY BALLS. my front delts and chest were scorching. OW. leg day today! woot

Sounds like you're doing really well in terms of sides.

My pumps on the 1-T Tren, particularly in the bis, eventually got sorta painful. They'd remain so pumped my arms would stay half cocked after working bis, like I was walking around consciously holding them bent.

No, no one has run a log dedicated to Clen in the 7 years I've been here. You'd just have to fish through all the times it's been mentioned to pull together results. Personally, I'm not a fan. I think there are cleaner (fewer CNS sides) and probably 90% as effective OTC fat burners without the trough people often fall into when they finish the cycle. I've always felt Clen was only talked about so much because it's "the dark side" and people assume that means it must be way better any anything OTC.

 

[mattie o]

Sounds like you're doing really well in terms of sides.

My pumps on the 1-T Tren, particularly in the bis, eventually got sorta painful. They'd remain so pumped my arms would stay half cocked after working bis, like I was walking around consciously holding them bent.

No, no one has run a log dedicated to Clen in the 7 years I've been here. You'd just have to fish through all the times it's been mentioned to pull together results. Personally, I'm not a fan. I think there are cleaner (fewer CNS sides) and probably 90% as effective OTC fat burners without the trough people often fall into when they finish the cycle. I've always felt Clen was only talked about so much because it's "the dark side" and people assume that means it must be way better any anything OTC.

ya know, the more im reading, thats sorta the conclusion in drawing. i may as well just stick with the ephedrine and caffeine...well see.

re: half cocked arms...haha! thats exactly what it was like! i was starting to feel like "imaginary lat guy" (we all know this guy right? every gym has one...hehe)

 

[RottenWillow]

ya know, the more im reading, thats sorta the conclusion in drawing. i may as well just stick with the ephedrine and caffeine...well see.

re: half cocked arms...haha! thats exactly what it was like! i was starting to feel like "imaginary lat guy" (we all know this guy right? every gym has one...hehe)

The old ECA stack I think 100% as well as Clen. Yes exactly "imaginary lat"....was actually gonna say that. It was that totally. That much pump in the bis caused tendon pain for me when I'd try to straighten my arm all the way.

 

[mattie o]

ok...for some reason, even despite my EC stack, i was REALLY lethargic in the gym today! and tired! it was leg day too i had a rough time getting thru that workout! ugh. i think i did ok, tho...took me longer than usual, but i went really heavy.

another thing i noticed...the bottoms of my feet are really hurting when i lift! almost like i get a little pump under there...strange, eh? never happened before. just thought id mention it. i have really flat feet, no arches at all.

 

[mattie o]

day 27: good morning everyone! weight was up a bit this morning, 135.6. hmm.

update: today actually turned out kind of sucking. im in a shit mood, very annoyed and i cant seem to snap out of it. everyone and everything is pissing me off. also, im bloated, hungry, and lethargic.

i know i shouldnt be so negative, and its mind over matter, im trying to reach a goal, blah blah, but ya know what? today im not having any fucking fun. i hate cardio, i hate dieting, i hate being tired and im sick of never getting to see my husband, except when were going to sleep.

yes, i know i asked for this and im not a vicitim, but sometimes it feels good, if only briefly, to piss and moan.

 

[mattie o]

day 28: well, im feeling better today

today is the last day of my cycle...i decided not to continue the epi for an additional 2 weeks. today i woke up with 2 pimples (i NEVER get pimples normally) and i feel like im holding a bit of water too. weight was 134.2 this morning.

i liked this supplement. would i do it again? yes. i have quite a bit left, so perhaps down the road ill run another cycle during my looooooong sloooooow cleeeeeeaaaan bulk that i have planned for after this next comp. i would also be interested in trying anavar, it would be interesting to see how it compares to epi. dont know where to get it tho, perhaps that will come in time.

i will say one thing tho: my voice is slightly lower. i doubt anyone has noticed at all, but scott and i can tell that its just a tad lower. to be honest, this doesnt bother me. its such a teeny difference, its not like a whole octave lower or anything.

ill keep you guys updated on how things go in the few days after my cycle is done...im anxious to see if my appetite takes a little dive...i hope it does! epi makes me hungry as shit. like i need an increase in appetite, i already have a bigg'un!

happy friday everyone...

 

[trex74]

day 27: good morning everyone! weight was up a bit this morning, 135.6. hmm.

update: today actually turned out kind of sucking. im in a shit mood, very annoyed and i cant seem to snap out of it. everyone and everything is pissing me off. also, im bloated, hungry, and lethargic.

i know i shouldnt be so negative, and its mind over matter, im trying to reach a goal, blah blah, but ya know what? today im not having any fucking fun. i hate cardio, i hate dieting, i hate being tired and im sick of never getting to see my husband, except when were going to sleep.

yes, i know i asked for this and im not a vicitim, but sometimes it feels good, if only briefly, to piss and moan.

Oh I hear you, we all get those days...it's good to vent and then be done with it
thanks for the log, I enjoyed reading it, was very informative

 

[Roxy722]

Mattie...I enjoyed the log too and have been following along as well. You're my inspiration to get out of bed and do early morning cardio! Good luck with your upcoming show!!

 

[mattie o]

wow, thanks ladies!!! glad i could inspire/inform

early morning cardio...ya. i actually surprise myself with these am sessions. but the thought of working all day, then lifing, THEN having to do an hour plus of cardio helps get my ass out of bed in the moring, hehe. i am NOT a morning person, and a HEAVY sleeper, so every morning is a struggle...poor scott has to endure many snooze buttons.

 

[mattie o]

hello all...ahhh saturdays i TIRED this weekend...i can tell i really lifted hard this week. i struggled thru 90 minutes of cardio this morning...gonna get some good rest today.

weight was up this morning, 135.4.

woke up HUNGRY. hoping my appetite subsides a bit after a while...

decided not to start clen today...yet. still want to do some more reading. going to stick with my EC stack for now.

 

[mattie o]

137.6 this morning! sheesh. where did that come from? seems like kind of alot...

actually, i think i know where. im not having a refeed today (dont feel like i earned one) but i did decide to have a tiny treat yesterday - some 85% dark chocolate and a one glass of red wine. it REALLY hit the spot. i guess i could be holding a bit of water due to my "treat".

going to have my body fat tested this morning...kinda scared. never did it right before the show, and i wish i would have. i still think im fairly lean...i was thinking back to january 1st when i decided to compete...i was 141 lbs. size 4 or 6 pants. now, i weigh almost the same, but my body looks COMPLETELY different!(size 2 pants) its really cool...i definately did some recomping.

in other news...im feeling confused about the upcoming show. i dont know if i want to do it anymore. i feel like im rushing things, and that im not going to be in that much better shape than the first one i did...sometimes i think, why dont i bulk slowly for like, 6 or 7 months, and then cut for say, 4 or 5? seems like contest prep is best done slowly like that. and then ill be in KILLER shape, and could do a bigger show even...

DAAAH i just dont know. i feel like this whole thing is just a big gray area, and its stressing me out (hello, cortisol secretion!) the first show i felt like i had a plan, and i was going to execute said plan and do the show come hell or high water. now i feel like...well, my little "bulk" diet may have been less than honorable (not too bad, but probably one or two more cheat meals than i should have had) and i have 10 weeks to cut, but i dont know if ill really be able to get SHREDDED by then...blah, blah. oh and one more thing...im REALLY tired of how massive my effing appetite is. what the hell? its constant gnawing, and now even the ephedrine isnt really taking the edge off. fml.

eh, i dont know, now im just sort of rambling. anyhoo...off to cardio

 

[mattie o]

13.3%....not too shabby!

 

[Roxy722]

137.6 this morning! sheesh. where did that come from? seems like kind of alot...

in other news...im feeling confused about the upcoming show. i dont know if i want to do it anymore. i feel like im rushing things, and that im not going to be in that much better shape than the first one i did...sometimes i think, why dont i bulk slowly for like, 6 or 7 months, and then cut for say, 4 or 5? seems like contest prep is best done slowly like that. and then ill be in KILLER shape, and could do a bigger show even...

DAAAH i just dont know. i feel like this whole thing is just a big gray area, and its stressing me out (hello, cortisol secretion!) the first show i felt like i had a plan, and i was going to execute said plan and do the show come hell or high water. now i feel like...well, my little "bulk" diet may have been less than honorable (not too bad, but probably one or two more cheat meals than i should have had) and i have 10 weeks to cut, but i dont know if ill really be able to get SHREDDED by then...blah, blah. oh and one more thing...im REALLY tired of how massive my effing appetite is. what the hell? its constant gnawing, and now even the ephedrine isnt really taking the edge off. fml.

eh, i dont know, now im just sort of rambling. anyhoo...off to cardio

Mattie...I can totally relate and am in a similar boat. My first show was very much a do or die...I was doing it no matter what. I just finished a few months of trying to gain a teeny bit of muscle and am 2 weeks in to a 10 week cut. I have those moments of confusion and doubt and STRESS but figured that I would keep going and decide further down the road. I do better knowing I have a goal and a timeline but picked a back up date for another show just in case.

Congrats on the body fat! Impressive!

 

[mattie o]

Mattie...I can totally relate and am in a similar boat. My first show was very much a do or die...I was doing it no matter what. I just finished a few months of trying to gain a teeny bit of muscle and am 2 weeks in to a 10 week cut. I have those moments of confusion and doubt and STRESS but figured that I would keep going and decide further down the road. I do better knowing I have a goal and a timeline but picked a back up date for another show just in case.

Congrats on the body fat! Impressive!

true, i guess i dont have to decide right now...hell i can send in my entry form a couple weeks before if i wanted to. the thing is tho...whether or not i do the show dictates what my diet/training is like right now...i guess thats why i feel like i need to decide for sure.

and i agree with you 100%, i do MUCH better if i have a deadline...

 

[mattie o]

little update:

my appetite has not decreased...wtf? its CONSTANT hunger. not cravings, HUNGER. the last few days i have been miserable! i wake up feeling like i havent eaten in days. it blows ass.

going to add more green veggies, i suppose. see if that helps.

 

[Rebecca D]

I felt the same way while on the epistrong. I couldn't get enough to eat. The way I dealt with it was to do what you said, eat more healthy food. If I was going to eat then make it something that would help me. But boy was I craving chocolate.

Rebecca D

 

[mattie o]

I felt the same way while on the epistrong. I couldn't get enough to eat. The way I dealt with it was to do what you said, eat more healthy food. If I was going to eat then make it something that would help me. But boy was I craving chocolate.

Rebecca D

mmm...chocolate does sound good.

im going to try and add some green veggies...to be honest, i never eat veggies, ever. naughty, i know...

 

[mattie o]

veggies are helping SLIGHTLY with appetite. still suffering.

one thing of note: i got 3 more teeny tiny pimples. on my face. probably no one would notice but me, theyre so little.