Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below hi ,i have just finished pct after 12 weeks of test ethanate at 500mgs per week,i only gained 9lbs ,and after 4weeks of nolvadex pct i have lost all of the 9lbs!!!it was my first injectable cycle after doing several oral only cycles in the past.i drank most weekends whilst on ,quite heavily so i think that accounts for only gaining 9lbs,but didnt think i would lose it all,.i am 40 yrs old,190lbs,15per cent bf.i cant wait to go back on ,and this time no drink whatsosever!!is 8 weeks after pct long enough to wait?
lost all gains after pct!!!
- Thread starter skaman007
- Start date
needtogetaas
New member
Might have needed hcg bro. I would also try using something else with the nolva for pct next time.
Yep, sounds like you really didn't train/eat correctly during and afterward. And nolva is a shitty PCT drug. No surprise.
diet was 3500 cals a day,uisually take in 3000.protein 200g.training was 4 x week ,each bodypart once a week,12 sets in the 6-8 rep range,.what is a good cycle for 8weeks and would i need hcg for that?
Tatyana
Elite Mentor
This is the thing hun, unless you are doing the grunting painful sets, exactly what you are doing, sets and reps, really makes no difference.
I see lads go through workout after workout in my gym, training like my nan.
This may not be you, this is just one thing I have observed that does seem to be a common issue.
The other issue may be that if you are slow twitch/red fiber dominant, or ectomorphic, the 6-8 rep range may not be optimal for you.
Hardgainers often fare better on an all body workout two or three times a week.
It isn't the drugs that will make a difference.
I have put on close to that amount of muscle since January, nattie, and on maintenance calories.
Chocolate_Thunder
New member
Here is what may have hurt you:
Diet, training intensity, cardio (will destroy gains after a cycle) and the drinking. Drinking will kill protein synthesis for up to 4 days after. That right there will KILL your gains.
Dugg
Banned
You beat me to it, I'm glad someone said it. My God !!! Dont mean to flame, but is it any wonder you gained only 9lbs and lost all ! I lose that after a shit
Cardinal Slin
New member
Totally agree with Tatyana.
There is one guy in my gym, he comes in each day of the week. Always the same time as me, he runs for 30 minutes then he trains chest for 1 hour doing nothing more than bench.
You can set your clock to this guy. I bet his diet is just as bad as his training. I am sure he asks himself why nothing is happening. I see this stuff all the time. People wanting to gain muscle but lifting weights that 12 year olds can lift without effort. They do a few sets then on to the next bodypart. It is often funny that it is these guys with the biggest ego problems walkin around the gym like they have two tree trunks under there arms.
Train hard, train smart, diet hard, diet smart, rest hard, rest smart and you will get it.
By the way - upping your calories only by 500 on cycle is not really enough in my opinion but that depends on how you train. Also 200 grams of protein is a little on the low side.
I personally think you need to totally rethink your programme
There is one guy in my gym, he comes in each day of the week. Always the same time as me, he runs for 30 minutes then he trains chest for 1 hour doing nothing more than bench.
You can set your clock to this guy. I bet his diet is just as bad as his training. I am sure he asks himself why nothing is happening. I see this stuff all the time. People wanting to gain muscle but lifting weights that 12 year olds can lift without effort. They do a few sets then on to the next bodypart. It is often funny that it is these guys with the biggest ego problems walkin around the gym like they have two tree trunks under there arms.
Train hard, train smart, diet hard, diet smart, rest hard, rest smart and you will get it.
By the way - upping your calories only by 500 on cycle is not really enough in my opinion but that depends on how you train. Also 200 grams of protein is a little on the low side.
I personally think you need to totally rethink your programme
Cardinal Slin
New member
Choco, just curious where this information came from? I would like to hear more on it as four days seems quite long considering how alcohol is metabolised - notwithstanding the amount of alcohol consumed plays a big role!
Thanks
Chocolate_Thunder
New member
Another thread from a long time ago. There was a study linked to it, i'll see if I can find it.
Cardinal Slin
New member
Thank you my friend!
Definitely interested in reading that and finding out the logic / reasons for it.
OneBreath
Elite Mentor
LOL, that was the nastiest callout framed in the most polite and logical way.
This says it all, not just to the OP but for anyone claiming "hardgainer". Hardwork and knowledge win out every time.
Get your diet and workout kicked up a notch. Shit! I eat 3500 cals by noon! Take every set to failure, heavy OR light.
AAS won't do you any good unless you are lifting intensely.
If you want to Booze it up... stay in the bar.
Alcohol and gear don't mix.
AAS won't do you any good unless you are lifting intensely.
If you want to Booze it up... stay in the bar.
Alcohol and gear don't mix.
daveyboy2345
New member
next time keep the test at 10 weeks and weeks 8-12 throw in an oral like winny, tbol, var
pct clomid hcg nolvadex, hcg 4 sure
fuck drinking like that your 40, not 22.
300-350 grams of protein daily, lots of complex carbs 2.
pct clomid hcg nolvadex, hcg 4 sure
fuck drinking like that your 40, not 22.
300-350 grams of protein daily, lots of complex carbs 2.
Tatyana
Elite Mentor
I think people think it will be easy, or that the gear will do it for them.
It isn't easy.
I have been training pretty much full on/full on intensity for 8-10 months, and the gains have really come in the last 8 months with the undulating periodisation in my workouts.
There are a few clever things in my diet, maximising pre and post workout nutrition, and some really clever things about my training to minimise over-training.
That being said, there are weeks I am just knackered, I haven't had a drink since Christmas, I have gone out dancing two or three times since Christmas, and I bring sugar free/healthy protein bars or chicken breasts with me.
I see how 75 % of the lads in my gym (s) train,and they train like pussies.
I train in three different proper BBing gyms.
Chocolate_Thunder
New member
I agree. It seems that taking anywhere from 2-3 minutes rest, grunting like a pig and having the forum of a jackass is what MOST people do.
Little do they know if they left their ego at the door, lowered the weight they were using and kept rest periods to 30-60 secs. They not only would be exercising the targeted muscle group they would also be burning up a ton of calories. Just sayin'.
exactly.
I get people telling me. "Damn dude, you look like you're gonna kill yourself." then I tell them how far I have come and those that regular the gym give me compliments on how good I am looking.
I'm not by any means the biggest mofo out there. I look solid, but nobody looks at me and thinks I am a beast. The fact that I was 6'2" and 160 15% BF lbs a little over 2 years ago, and now I am like 218 and 12% BF, I look way huge compared to before, and I am making good progress too. 50 solid pounds in 26 months is kicking ass if you ask me. You gotta bust your ass in the gym, and eat right or you will never get anywhere even with all the steroids in the world. Tha
True.
pappad
New member
I didn't want to read all of this cause I know most of all the bro's and gals I saw give great advice.
What I can't get away from is only gaining 9 lbs in 12 weeks with that diet. I think the gear was bunk. Like Tat said you can gain that natty. On 500mgs ew with a sos os diet and training 9 lbs doesn't seem hard!
Just sayin'
What I can't get away from is only gaining 9 lbs in 12 weeks with that diet. I think the gear was bunk. Like Tat said you can gain that natty. On 500mgs ew with a sos os diet and training 9 lbs doesn't seem hard!
Just sayin'
glennds
New member
not necessarily. 6-8 lbs/cycle is realistic and attainable goal for a cycle. you are talking about muscle, not water. if you think you going to gain 25 lbs of muscle on a cycle, think again.
RobertFontaine
New member
Bunk/not bunk you definitely didn't consume enough calories.
OneBreath
Elite Mentor
LOL @ bringing protein bars and chicken breasts out dancing. I had to play golf in a tournament with the boss today. I packed some good stuff of course because i knew the box lunches would be processed crap. I got so much shit for it too.
Its a lifestyle, can't half ass it with a mediocre diet, weekend drinking, and mediocre training. No drug in the world is going to fix that.
OP, just learn from this lesson. Regroup, get a plan in place and hit the kitchen and gym hard! And leave the booze alone of course.
Good luck!
van_wilder
New member
i'd call bull on the diet way before i call bunk gear... drinking every weekend? no way he's eating proper if he's boozing.
i can't even count the number of time people tell me they're taking in 2-300g of PRO and 3-4000clean calories daily until i ask them to write down what they eat.... that's when we figure out why they haven't gained! Let's be honest here... 3500cal of clean quality solid food is a lot of eating and discipline for 95% of people out there.
Roc86
New member
Heres a few tips:
#1) Dont drink - sets goals, have a diet, and keep disciplined. Dont cycle for the sake of it.
-have goals with regards to gains (size + strength), recovery, and retention (ie, gain 10 lbs and keep 7)
#2) Run HCG - 250mcg on mondays and thrusday. Better to "keep the horse in the barn" than to try and catch it (Im implying keeping your nuts humming along)
#3) Consider using low does adex next time. This way, the weight you gain will be primarily LBM, and not just water weight.
#4) Use nolvadex in conunction with aromasin for pct along with with any other recovery supps you wish.
An effective protocol is:
Week 1: nolva @ 40 mgs ed
Week 2: nolva @ 20 mgs ed
Week 3: nolva 20 mgs ed
Week 4: nolva 20 mgs ed + aromasin @ 25 mg ed
Week 5: nolva 20 mgs ed + aromasin @ 25 mg ed
Week 6: nolva 20 mgs ed + aromasin @ 25 mg ed
Week 7- nolva 10 mgs ed
*aromasin works fucking great when your testosterone and gonatropin levels are already high
#5 Get bloodwork done 6 weeks after you pct to see how well youve bounced back.
*ive actually seen someone use this protocol and get a total test of 1800 (range of 200-900) - and every other anabolic hormone was high aswell (IGF, Free test, low SHBG etc) - dont feel like digging up the exact #s
#6 Gauge your progress on how you feel/look after you cycle and pct - nobody will ever be as good as they are when on, but gaining permanent sustainable long term quality muscle is what you should be after.
#7 to avoid the pct blues mix dont be afraid to maybe mix up your supplements. Using something like superpump250 for pre workout, or a handful of arginines, or run some creatine monohydrate to keep your weight up etc all can keep your mind off the gear and make training natural more fun while you prep for your next cycle.
Best of luck
ps. maybe consider throwing some anavar into your next tst cycle @ like 40 mgs ed for the last 6 weeks. With a clean diet you will get hard and dense as fuck.
#1) Dont drink - sets goals, have a diet, and keep disciplined. Dont cycle for the sake of it.
-have goals with regards to gains (size + strength), recovery, and retention (ie, gain 10 lbs and keep 7)
#2) Run HCG - 250mcg on mondays and thrusday. Better to "keep the horse in the barn" than to try and catch it (Im implying keeping your nuts humming along)
#3) Consider using low does adex next time. This way, the weight you gain will be primarily LBM, and not just water weight.
#4) Use nolvadex in conunction with aromasin for pct along with with any other recovery supps you wish.
An effective protocol is:
Week 1: nolva @ 40 mgs ed
Week 2: nolva @ 20 mgs ed
Week 3: nolva 20 mgs ed
Week 4: nolva 20 mgs ed + aromasin @ 25 mg ed
Week 5: nolva 20 mgs ed + aromasin @ 25 mg ed
Week 6: nolva 20 mgs ed + aromasin @ 25 mg ed
Week 7- nolva 10 mgs ed
*aromasin works fucking great when your testosterone and gonatropin levels are already high
#5 Get bloodwork done 6 weeks after you pct to see how well youve bounced back.
*ive actually seen someone use this protocol and get a total test of 1800 (range of 200-900) - and every other anabolic hormone was high aswell (IGF, Free test, low SHBG etc) - dont feel like digging up the exact #s
#6 Gauge your progress on how you feel/look after you cycle and pct - nobody will ever be as good as they are when on, but gaining permanent sustainable long term quality muscle is what you should be after.
#7 to avoid the pct blues mix dont be afraid to maybe mix up your supplements. Using something like superpump250 for pre workout, or a handful of arginines, or run some creatine monohydrate to keep your weight up etc all can keep your mind off the gear and make training natural more fun while you prep for your next cycle.
Best of luck
ps. maybe consider throwing some anavar into your next tst cycle @ like 40 mgs ed for the last 6 weeks. With a clean diet you will get hard and dense as fuck.
Tatyana
Elite Mentor
I am helping a mate at work with her diet and training, and so far, weights have made a difference she likes.
She is not consistent though, REALLY inconsistent.
If she spent the same amount of time in the gym that she did moaning about being fat and wanting to drop a dress size, we would be there already.
haha,nah man im cool with the comments,its all true,.i have never progressed in ten years of training hard,cos of the weekend drinking,.my parents were alcoholics and i guess i have their genes!!i started training to keep me off the booze during the week,so i have cut down a heck of a lot,yes i know not enough,but i will get there,and will defo not drink on my next cycle
automaticj5
New member
marc51000r
New member
Some people do not have the physical maturity to do AAS. They start prematurely, usually at a young age way before they hit their potential. But at least they're lives outside of the gym are conducive to supporting the synthetic hormones they are taking.
I feel for you with your folks being alcoholics and everything, but it doesn't sound like you have the mental maturity to go through with a cycle properly. Mental maturity is the first and foremost requirement to support a cycle.
On behalf of all the brothers and sisters here who take this lifestyle very seriously, stop until you can (at the very least) not get liquored up on weekends.
I feel for you with your folks being alcoholics and everything, but it doesn't sound like you have the mental maturity to go through with a cycle properly. Mental maturity is the first and foremost requirement to support a cycle.
On behalf of all the brothers and sisters here who take this lifestyle very seriously, stop until you can (at the very least) not get liquored up on weekends.
mr.nitro
Banned
I agree. it seems you have the begining of what may be a drinking problem. theirs no place for that in bodybuilding.
Another common no-no I see is guys using momentum to lift the weight...there's no form and they have no clue what a negative is...basically just swinging the weights up and down.
I will say, though, that with everyone telling you to train hard- and I am by no means diminishing the importance of intensity, form and correct rest between sets- but make sure you don't overtrain, which is also a common problem when people are on cycle...I feel like a beast and even though a body part will feel completely spent, the recovery time is so quick, and I have so much mental energy, it makes me feel like I can keep going. You can hurt gains as well as get injured that way.
TheUbermensch
New member
I did a very similar cycle 600mg test e for 8 weeks. Just had nolva on hand for PCT and gyno.
I gained 20. I've lost 10 since the cycle ended.... mainly cause it's so hard to train. I've never been this tired. I need to get some HCG. I feel like I've been shot in the ass with a tranquilizer dart.
Next time I'll probably get some sustain alpha, unleashed, HCG, and clomid..... I thought I could save money by just going with the nolvadex, but I guess it's not wise to try to "cost-cut" on PCT. Seems like, to do it properly, PCT will cost about the same as the cycle. Sigh.
I'm not sure if I'll recover on Nolva alone. My nuts still seem to be about 60-75% their original size 3 weeks afterwards. If I still feel tired in a couple weeks I may try a few doses of HCG....
I gained 20. I've lost 10 since the cycle ended.... mainly cause it's so hard to train. I've never been this tired. I need to get some HCG. I feel like I've been shot in the ass with a tranquilizer dart.
Next time I'll probably get some sustain alpha, unleashed, HCG, and clomid..... I thought I could save money by just going with the nolvadex, but I guess it's not wise to try to "cost-cut" on PCT. Seems like, to do it properly, PCT will cost about the same as the cycle. Sigh.
I'm not sure if I'll recover on Nolva alone. My nuts still seem to be about 60-75% their original size 3 weeks afterwards. If I still feel tired in a couple weeks I may try a few doses of HCG....
princeshock
New member
I smell a Bogus thread and bogus training going on. Steroids are only Miracle Grow if you have an increadible workout ethic. SO GET ONE!
Well after reading all these posts about how good of a diet u should be to gain good muscle weight and no drinking on a cycle and shit... A body of mine who is 32, 6'5" 300lb 10% BF eats fucking fast food all the fucking time, drinks everyweekend, so explain that to me...? The dude is a monster, but he also has bn on GH for 5 years now, he has taken all kinds of anabolics, and yea I forgot he stays on them year round lol, not smart in my openion, but he won't listen to nobody, I am afraid soon he is gonna have major heath prob. Anyway makes me wonder if the GH is keeping him with the low body fat or is it the gear? Hard to tell!
scotty too hotty
New member
You need to realize the human body is composed of millions of tiny cells. The good news is that testosterone and other steroids give these cells the capability to grow bigger and metabolize nutrients more efficiently than they normally would. The bad news for you is that these cells die off daily. That is why people need drugs all of the time to stay big, but despite this you shouldn't have lost that much. Maybe you never learned to eat properly natural, I say this because 20 pounds is a lot of wait to gain for just a test cycle. If you don't have any foundation of muscle then you will lose everything you've gained. I know people that can't bench 315 unless they're on something. That is pathetic in my opinion. Do you squat more than you can bench? If not, then don't consider using steroids yet. And yes, hcg will definetely help restore natural levels, so def use it.
sounds like youre an alcoholic if youve had multiple failed cycles because of drinking. I would have learned my lesson after one shitty cycle.
