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U District needle exchange gives out free crack pipes


For more than 20 years, local heroin addicts have relied on a collection of needle exchanges for clean works. But in recent months, crack users too have quietly found an outlet in the city.

In a nondescript alley in the University District, users can pick up clean crack pipes, pipe filters and ascorbic acid for injecting crack. Heroin users can also pick up a drug that reverses a heroin overdose -- an apparent first for a city needle exchange.

"We take a different philosophy approach than most government institutions or public health departments. They have a budget, and have to pick and choose who they're going to help," said Shilo Murphy, executive director of the non-profit People's Harm Reduction Alliance, which runs the U-District needle exchange.

"We say this is our community, this is our neighborhood, and we should decide what we have at the table."

The exchange, which celebrated 20 years in the neighborhood this week, has come a long way from its roots -- when a man named Bob walked the Ave. and dispensed sterile needles from his backpack.

These days, the largely volunteer-driven exchange, which serves 400 to 600 people a month, is better known for branching ahead of its peers in the harm reduction world.

Public health officials know of no other local program that gives out crack kits or Naloxone, the heroin-overdose reversal drug. But they see the potential benefits.

Just as sterile syringes reduce the spread of HIV and other diseases, new and unbroken glass pipes are believed to prevent lip cuts and the spread of hepatitis strains. Rubber tips and new filters ward off mouth burns. Ascorbic acid helps prevent users from using lemon juice to dissolve cocaine rocks into an injectable liquid -- a common practice that can lead to fungal infections.

"Our program is primarily an HIV prevention program," said Michael Hanrahan, manager of education and prevention services of the HIV/STD program with Public Health -- Seattle & King County. The agency, which runs four exchange programs, has watched the demand for clean needles surge from 1.8 million in 2006 to nearly 3.4 million last year.

Hanrahan said research has documented HIV transmission from dirty needles, but he wasn't away of rigorous studies showing disease spread via crack sores.

"But it's certainly theoretically plausible," he said.

Last year, the Legislature passed a law allowing lay people to legally administer Naloxone, which counters the effects of an opioid overdose. Hanrahan said Public Health is interested in giving the drug to users, but because it is a prescription drug, the agency first needs to work on protocols with the state Board of Pharmacy.

At the People's Harm Reduction Alliance - partially comprised of former users who run a table at Northeast 43rd Street and University Avenue Northeast - there is less need to follow protocols and studies.

The program began giving out crack kits a few months ago, after staffers felt the need to support crack users, who still make up a major local drug trend, according to a recent University of Washington study.

And the exchange began giving out Naloxone soon after the new law took effect in June.

Murphy estimated the program, which is partially funded by Public Health, gives out two million needles a year, 10 crack pipes a day, and has so far dispensed about 200 vials of Naloxone.

"We don't have clients, we just have community members. I make it clear to everyone that everyone is family here," Murphy said.

"We believe all drug users should have the right to not get diseases and have the ability to prevent diseases."


Vanessa Ho can be reached at 206-448-8003 or [email protected].



U District needle exchange gives out free crack pipes
 
Technically, I'm considered a lib because I think society is self-regulating without fed interference but that would make me a Southern slave owner in the pop culture....don't let people fool you...it was about states rights Vs. the fed government imposing its will. I don't need a nanny fed government to tell me owning slaves or discrimination is wrong...the founders pointed out their moral dilemmas.
 
I got like 30 needles there for free.

I went to like 10 different pharmacies tryin to get some needles and they either looked at me like I was a shady criminal or from another planet.

Go needle exchange!

P.S. If you have ever been around drug users you'd realize this is actually very smart disease prevention. Druggies will do desperate shit for a high. If needles and shit are hard to come by you're looking at needle sharing. Put two and two together.

This isn't about promoting drug use. Limiting access to needles isn't going to stop addicts from getting the drug, but it will make them more likely to practice dirty using.

I went there and watched like 5 different addicts talking about how it was the greatest thing ever. You're probably thinking of course an addict would say that. But, I heard them talking about sterile injection technique, using swabs AND disposing their used/capped needles at the exchange.

This is less disease spreading, less needles laying around etc.

I especially liked it when the girls handed me 30 of the needles for the muscles as they put it, lol.

This program is also great for aas guys on a budget.
 
Technically, I'm considered a lib because I think society is self-regulating without fed interference but that would make me a Southern slave owner in the pop culture....don't let people fool you...it was about states rights Vs. the fed government imposing its will. I don't need a nanny fed government to tell me owning slaves or discrimination is wrong...the founders pointed out their moral dilemmas.

that's not liberal thinking...that's libertarian thinking...big difference...and, as usual, i feel the same as you...buddy :)
 
Druggies will do desperate shit for a high. If needles and shit are hard to come by you're looking at needle sharing. Put two and two together.

This isn't about promoting drug use. Limiting access to needles isn't going to stop addicts from getting the drug, but it will make them more likely to practice dirty using.

Super, lets start giving children to pedophiles while we're at it. You know, so they don't hurt anyone else in the process of doing what they're gonna do anyway. :rolleyes:
 
java and digi are correct. i'm a libertarian sans the "limited military" feature. the point of drug prohibition is HARM REDUCTION / DAMAGE CONTROL. even the morons who back the war on drugs understand that we can't erradicate dope.
the problem is, the war on drugs creates more problems than the drugs! clean syringes equates to less HIV, hep c and bacterial infections. when junkies get sick they're dependent on state aid. a 10 cent syringe can avert 100 k dollars
worth of public funded medical care.

there's nothing liberal about this type of thinking, it's humane and financially sound . a liberal plan would include an added state-local tax to subsidize drug addicts heroin and candy bar diet. in addition the libs would prolly insist that
any family earning more than 250 k would have to give room and board to homeless junkies.
 
Im waiting for my free pharm grade roids since i cant possibly know the risks im taking shooting up with UG gear.
Free .gov steroids for us roid addicts for the win.

Somehow i dont think so.
 
Layinback's post was well said.

As for getting aas needles from the exchange. The one I went to and plan on going back to handed me 30 1" 25g no questions asked. Of course I brought some to dispose of. Dude, they would have given me 50 of them without batting an eye. I asked for 20 and they gave me 30 and said I could have more. I assume they are given a set amount and have x amount to give away so might as well give it away.

Now I'm not sure what drug users besides aas users need that size needle for, but perhaps the exchange is smart enough to know that if you're going to prevent dirty using then even aas users count even if they are not even in the same ballpark on the same planet as a heroin addict.

This is about reducing the spread of disease, reducing the needles on the streets. I'll repeat this again. Limiting needle access doesn't stop the use or acquisition of drugs.

Equating this to handing children to pedophiles is pretty asinine.
 
As for getting aas needles from the exchange. The one I went to and plan on going back to handed me 30 1" 25g no questions asked. Of course I brought some to dispose of. Dude, they would have given me 50 of them without batting an eye. I asked for 20 and they gave me 30 and said I could have more. I assume they are given a set amount and have x amount to give away so might as well give it away.

you're a very patient man...25's would take forever and i'd have to push on the plunger way to hard with oil-based compounds, even if you warm it up first...i use 1.5 22's or 23's...i get mine from the pharmacy...along with my test...and my insurance picks up the bill...hrt...one of the few benefits of the aging process :lmao:
 
I have always used 25's so I guess I'm used to it. I do have to press fairly hard and it takes probably 20-25 seconds to push the oil in, but this is what I have done from day one.

I was under the belief that 25g causes less damage and hurts less.

What's the size difference going to 23g?
 
Lotta mean-spirited conservatism up in this thread.

I've decided the kinder, gentler, all-natural, certified organic, ecosustainable plunkey means well hence anything he does is justifiable.

Just sayin'
 
Lotta mean-spirited conservatism up in this thread.

I've decided the kinder, gentler, all-natural, certified organic, ecosustainable plunkey means well hence anything he does is justifiable.

Just sayin'

sounds to me like you're gunning for a killer paid/unpaid internship
 
sounds to me like you're gunning for a killer paid/unpaid internship

Teh vibrams have changed my life. Now that my biomechanical vectors have aligned as nature intended, I now feel the incessant need to bail hay and ponder my perpetual reincarnation using mediation crystals.

Plus I got a wikkid foot fetish particularly when combined with synthetic rubber.

Just sayin'
 
Free needles is better than having them clogging up Obamacare with their cold sores.
 
Super, lets start giving children to pedophiles while we're at it. You know, so they don't hurt anyone else in the process of doing what they're gonna do anyway. :rolleyes:

oh its already heading in that direction... after all, it's not a disease, it's a choice...

remember it wasn't that many years ago that Homosexuality was classified as a disease..

and who thinks it's ok to teach (without parent consent or knowledge) 1st graders about sexual conduct that is acceptable or not...

home schooling here we come...
 
oh its already heading in that direction... after all, it's not a disease, it's a choice...

remember it wasn't that many years ago that Homosexuality was classified as a disease..

and who thinks it's ok to teach (without parent consent or knowledge) 1st graders about sexual conduct that is acceptable or not...

home schooling here we come...

Be specific please. I work in a school district and this is NOT part of the curriculum. 6th grade is family life with parent consent but 1st grade? I find that hard to believe.
 
Im waiting for my free pharm grade roids since i cant possibly know the risks im taking shooting up with UG gear.
Free .gov steroids for us roid addicts for the win.

Somehow i dont think so.

No sir! They'll just throw you in jail. You're an EVIL steroid user! Far more dangerous than any heroin or crack addict.
 
Irrelevant to the conversation, I never asked for a war on drugs. I know it's hard for you, but try to keep up.


i'll do my best to keep up. you've been screaming liberal this, liberal that!
in the spirit of "keeping up" can you give me a rationale for your protestations
and also, can you explain how this is a liberal act. you neglected to respond
to my relevant post below. however you did respond to the war on drug
statement. are we being selective in our battles.

what's the harm in handing out crack pipes and syringes and it can't be a
unsubstantiated opinion. you've asked me to keep up and it's only fair
that you keep us as well.


you never responded to my post below.

ava and digi are correct. i'm a libertarian sans the "limited military" feature. the point of drug prohibition is HARM REDUCTION / DAMAGE CONTROL. even the morons who back the war on drugs understand that we can't erradicate dope.
the problem is, the war on drugs creates more problems than the drugs! clean syringes equates to less HIV, hep c and bacterial infections. when junkies get sick they're dependent on state aid. a 10 cent syringe can avert 100 k dollars
worth of public funded medical care.

there's nothing liberal about this type of thinking, it's humane and financially sound . a liberal plan would include an added state-local tax to subsidize drug addicts heroin and candy bar diet. in addition the libs would prolly insist that
any family earning more than 250 k would have to give room and board to homeless junkies.
 
i'll do my best to keep up. you've been screaming liberal this, liberal that!
in the spirit of "keeping up" can you give me a rationale for your protestations

Sure, I'll do this when you learn not to hit the return key every time you type four words.

and also, can you explain how this is a liberal act. you neglected to respond
to my relevant post below.

It's been in bold the entire time, last sentence of my original post. Clearly an idea that came from a liberals view.

are we being selective in our battles.

My posting habits have been consistent since '04 when I got here. I don't go around looking for long drawn out 'battles'. You should know this by now, unless I was right and you really are a little slow on the uptake.

what's the harm in handing out crack pipes and syringes and it can't be a
unsubstantiated opinion. you've asked me to keep up and it's only fair
that you keep us as well.

Well, my opinion would probably be an unpopular one. But since you asked for it I guess I'll elaborate.

I can't speak for all, but the crackheads I've encountered have long rap sheets. Most of which include several violent crimes. I've also noticed they have no remorse for their actions, they somehow justify what they've done in their head. Hell, some even brag about it on internet message boards (oh snap!). I wont get into the whole sociopath thing as I've got much bigger fish to fry today than you. :kiss:

you never responded to my post below.

ava and digi are correct. i'm a libertarian sans the "limited military" feature. the point of drug prohibition is HARM REDUCTION / DAMAGE CONTROL. even the morons who back the war on drugs understand that we can't erradicate dope.

No, but we can eradicate the repeat violent offenders who will do anything to get their dope.

the problem is, the war on drugs creates more problems than the drugs! clean syringes equates to less HIV, hep c and bacterial infections.

Dead people don't spread HIV, Hep C or infections.

when junkies get sick they're dependent on state aid. a 10 cent syringe can avert 100 k dollars
worth of public funded medical care.

A dead junkie doesn't require medical care.

there's nothing liberal about this type of thinking, it's humane and financially sound.

Not nearly as financially sound as my plan. My plan would benefit society ten fold over the current system of enabling we have.

a liberal plan would include an added state-local tax to subsidize drug addicts heroin and candy bar diet.

I'm sure it's in the works. Did anyone think we were gonna hand out crack pipes?

I'm not against everything liberal, every once in awhile they get things right. I have no problem with a woman's right to choose. It's their body, not yours. Some additional funding ideas make sense. A better educational system benefits all of us. I don't think affirmative action is the answer, but maybe something along those lines could be beneficial. As for some other topics...


Global warming: Fuck You!

Gun control: Fuck You!

More welfare programs: Fuck You!

Free healthcare for all: Fuck You!

Abolishing the death penalty: Fuck You!

More government: Fuck You!



Ok where were we? Oh yeah, I know you'll probably bring up how you're reformed and rehabilitated and now a productive member of society and free from your past and blah blah blah and how you're ok in the head now etc etc. However

A: You're definitely not ok.

3c: For every one that does get reformed there's probably a hundred that don't and continue down the path of destruction and burdening society.
 
Global warming: Fuck You!

Gun control: Fuck You!

More welfare programs: Fuck You!

Free healthcare for all: Fuck You!

Abolishing the death penalty: Fuck You!

More government: Fuck You!

i agree with all of these except the death penalty. we should ship our criminals to other countries just like other countries do to us.
 
i agree with all of these except the death penalty. we should ship our criminals to other countries just like other countries do to us.

I'd be all for abolishing the death penalty too as long as we could put something worse in its place.

Maybe a multi-year slow death by torture where they have to ask to be killed first?
 
I have always used 25's so I guess I'm used to it. I do have to press fairly hard and it takes probably 20-25 seconds to push the oil in, but this is what I have done from day one.

I was under the belief that 25g causes less damage and hurts less.

What's the size difference going to 23g?

none (pain-wise)...and i still take my time...it's just eaiser...if you're not pushing hard, your hand is steadier and there's less damage imho.
 
Practically every other fucking country has free health care.

+40% of americans don't have health care.

Health care costs in the U.S. are skyrocketing.

Yup, working real good for us this system is.
 
Sure, I'll do this when you learn not to hit the return key every time.

personal insults are the defense of a man who lacks solid ideas.

It's been in bold the entire time, last sentence of my original post. Clearly an idea that came from a liberals view.

flawed logic. since it came from a liberal is not ipso facto a liberal idea.

My posting habits have been consistent since '04 when I got here. I don't go around looking for long drawn out 'battles'. You should know this by now, unless I was right and you really are a little slow on the uptake.

you may not be looking for a battle, but when you make broad sweeping and
erroneous statements, you should at least be prepared to defend your position.
being challenged aint a bad thing.

Well, my opinion would probably be an unpopular one. But since you asked for it I guess I'll elaborate.

I can't speak for all, but the crackheads I've encountered have long rap sheets. Most of which include several violent crimes. I've also noticed they have no remorse for their actions, they somehow justify what they've done in their head. Hell, some even brag about it on internet message boards (oh snap!). I wont get into the whole sociopath thing as I've got much bigger fish to fry today than you. :kiss:

flawed logic based on anecdotal evidence and the premise that drug addicts
are sociopaths. drug addicts and alcoholics can lead productive lives as
evidenced by the millions who've recovered over the past 60 years in AA.

No, but we can eradicate the repeat violent offenders who will do anything to get their dope.

on this we agree. violent repeat offenders need to be removed from society,
one way or the other.


Dead people don't spread HIV, Hep C or infections.

are you suggesting that we kill drug addicts?

A dead junkie doesn't require medical care.

and you were referencing sociopaths earlier......... interesting.

Not nearly as financially sound as my plan. My plan would benefit society ten fold over the current system of enabling we have.

your plan sounds like hitler, mussolini and osama bin ladens plan.
kill everything that you don't understand or disagree with. okydok
y.

I'm sure it's in the works. Did anyone think we were gonna hand out crack pipes?

I'm not against everything liberal, every once in awhile they get things right. I have no problem with a woman's right to choose. It's their body, not yours. Some additional funding ideas make sense. A better educational system benefits all of us. I don't think affirmative action is the answer, but maybe something along those lines could be beneficial. As for some other topics...


Global warming: Fuck You!

Gun control: Fuck You!

More welfare programs: Fuck You!

Free healthcare for all: Fuck You!

Abolishing the death penalty: Fuck You!

More government: Fuck You!



Ok where were we? Oh yeah, I know you'll probably bring up how you're reformed and rehabilitated and now a productive member of society and free from your past and blah blah blah and how you're ok in the head now etc etc. However

A: You're definitely not ok.

3c: For every one that does get reformed there's probably a hundred that don't and continue down the path of destruction and burdening society.

of course i'm not "ok" i don't even know what "ok" means. i am a human being.
i have flaws and i'm working to be a better father, husband , friend , employer
lifes a journey bro, i think when you get "ok" somebodys reading your
eulegy.


your premise suggest that we throw the baby out with the bathwater.
dood all life is precious. if we follow your philosophy we would kill
the debilitated elderly and mentally retarded . they're a burden on society
and they're not going to get better.


puddles you are an ok guy but you're in over your head. when you engage in an
argument with a formidable opponenet, you can't operate backwards.
you form a conclusion and try to make the premises fit. hell, most of the
argument you don't even bother with premises. you say kill 'em or let 'em
die or you conjure up some anecdotal nonsense . this form of
arguing reminds me of liberals........ all opinion and emotion with
absolutely no evidence to back it up. furthermore, you take the liberals
approach in insulting your opponent or alternately dismissing them \ignoring them. it may be one of the reasons you dislike them so much. such is
usually the case in those we protesteth too much.
 
oh and by the way you're kinda sexy when you're mad and inferring i'm a psychopath. KILL THE DRUGGIES RAAAAAAAR FUCK THE LIBERALS ROAAAAAAAAAAAAAWR! LAYINBACKS NOT OK AND HE'S A SOCIOPATH GRUNT SNORT UGH!:cool:
 
lol@your response

I'm in the middle of my NCAA 11 Dynasty and I wanna play a couple more games before bed. I'll deal with you tomorrow after work sometime.

This should give you some time to edit before I throw you under the bus again :)
 
lol@your response

I'm in the middle of my NCAA 11 Dynasty and I wanna play a couple more games before bed. I'll deal with you tomorrow after work sometime.

This should give you some time to edit before I throw you under the bus again :)

lol i put you in check @ post #18. post # 60 was game.

i got K from smart peeps on 18 and 60 who understand formal argument \ logic

you can't argue bro! that's ok, you don't need to. by your own addmission
you play it safe in life. i could prolly learn a thing or two from you. i'm
always out there, leading with the chin and quite honestly i'm a little to
old and a little to tired to keep it going much further .
 


your premise suggest that we throw the baby out with the bathwater.
dood all life is precious. if we follow your philosophy we would kill
the debilitated elderly and mentally retarded . they're a burden on society
and they're not going to get better.




Okay...If all life is so precious why are you okay with the idea of handing out free syringes and crack pipes? These people are slowly killing themselves. Kinda seems foolish to argue with puddles why free crack pipes is a good thing and then post how all life is precious.

:)
 
Okay...If all life is so precious why are you okay with the idea of handing out free syringes and crack pipes? These people are slowly killing themselves. Kinda seems foolish to argue with puddles why free crack pipes is a good thing and then post how all life is precious.

:)

bro, if we hand out free crack pipes syringes etc... the dopers aint gonna
increase or decrease their usage. if you legalize drugs, peeps that don't
do drugs aint gonna start. drug prohibition doesn't deter drug use. peeps
that are gonna do drugs are gonna do them anyway. the idea is damage
control and if we can move into a direction of less punitive reaction and
more of a humane response. helping these people to avoid more damage
while they do what there gonna do anyway is the way i interpret. if we
don't have such programs they're not gonna wake up and say," wow i'm
killing myself and i better stop." i liken it to methadone. methadone
keeps junkies from illegal activities, gives them a pre measured dose
so OD's are minimized and the risk of needle related disease is minimized

i don't see this as enabling or condoning self destructive behavior. i do
see how you and others could view it like that. it's completely
understandable. i'm coming from the persective of an ex doper whos
seen every side of the coin.
 
bro, if we hand out free crack pipes syringes etc... the dopers aint gonna
increase or decrease their usage. if you legalize drugs, peeps that don't
do drugs aint gonna start. drug prohibition doesn't deter drug use. peeps
that are gonna do drugs are gonna do them anyway. the idea is damage
control and if we can move into a direction of less punitive reaction and
more of a humane response. helping these people to avoid more damage
while they do what there gonna do anyway is the way i interpret. if we
don't have such programs they're not gonna wake up and say," wow i'm
killing myself and i better stop." i liken it to methadone. methadone
keeps junkies from illegal activities, gives them a pre measured dose
so OD's are minimized and the risk of needle related disease is minimized

i don't see this as enabling or condoning self destructive behavior. i do
see how you and others could view it like that. it's completely
understandable. i'm coming from the persective of an ex doper whos
seen every side of the coin.

If you understand the true nature of addiction you understand addicts are not going to curb their use because of risks associated with use such as dirty needles and crack pipes that cut mouths.
The differing philosophies are the conflict involved with this.

Viewpoint 1. Believes making drug use as safe as possible by trying to eliminate the secondary risks is a worthwhile endeavor because addicts will use no matter what. So may as well make the experience strictly about the drug and not the associated risks. Believes by and large addicts cant stop using and will risk their lives in other ways to get high.

Viewpoint 2. Believes assisting drug users to get high in a safe manner or in a safe environment enables the users to do drugs above beyond what they already were currently doing and legitimizes the drug use itself. Believes by and large addicts can stop using so we shouldnt help them get high or make it easier/safer for them to get high.
 
bro, if we hand out free crack pipes syringes etc... the dopers aint gonna
increase or decrease their usage. if you legalize drugs, peeps that don't
do drugs aint gonna start. drug prohibition doesn't deter drug use. peeps
that are gonna do drugs are gonna do them anyway. the idea is damage
control and if we can move into a direction of less punitive reaction and
more of a humane response. helping these people to avoid more damage
while they do what there gonna do anyway is the way i interpret. if we
don't have such programs they're not gonna wake up and say," wow i'm
killing myself and i better stop." i liken it to methadone. methadone
keeps junkies from illegal activities, gives them a pre measured dose
so OD's are minimized and the risk of needle related disease is minimized
They may not increase their usage, but they are still killing themselves and will most likely eventually kill them self due to use. I understand your damage control point of view, but you said all life is precious or something like that. Do you only mean the lives that aren't already addicted to hardcore drugs? Wouldn't the money be better spent to curing their addictions instead of enabling them?


i don't see this as enabling or condoning self destructive behavior. i do
see how you and others could view it like that. it's completely
understandable. i'm coming from the persective of an ex doper whos
seen every side of the coin.
okay, I see you made your enabling point there, oopsie. But as a recovered addict wouldn't you understand it more that the need is to help the people quit drugs rather than continue use in a safer environment? Say one of your sons (God forbid) in the future gets addicted to crack or heroine or something. Would you as a father rather them use clean needles and new pipes or would you rather them get the help they need to actually quit?

Just playing devils advocate here...I know i'm not going to change your opinion on this matter, and you most likely won't change mine but I do see your side of things I just so happen to think my viewpoint is better :biggrin:
 
lol i put you in check @ post #18. post # 60 was game.

i got K from smart peeps on 18 and 60 who understand formal argument \ logic

you can't argue bro! that's ok, you don't need to. by your own addmission
you play it safe in life. i could prolly learn a thing or two from you. i'm
always out there, leading with the chin and quite honestly i'm a little to
old and a little to tired to keep it going much further .

Home from work, but you're pretty low on the priority list. First I gotta

1 ~ Eat

2 ~ Nap

3 ~ NCAA 11

4 ~ Call girl

5 ~ Masturbate

.

.

.

.

.

.

12 ~ Point out your failures
 
Home from work, but you're pretty low on the priority list. First I gotta

1 ~ Eat

2 ~ Nap

3 ~ NCAA 11

4 ~ Callgirl

5 ~ Masturbate

.

.

.

.

.

.

12 ~ Point out your failures

why are you jerking off after getting a callgirl, bor?
 
Just playing devils advocate here...I know i'm not going to change your opinion on this matter, and you most likely won't change mine but I do see your side of things I just so happen to think my viewpoint is better :biggrin:

you have some valid points! i really don't wanna change your mind. i've been
reading your post and interacting with you on and off for three years and i
respect your view points. you have a logical rationale for most of what you say
and you are confident and comftorable enough to be challenged.

i was challenging puddmonkey because i smell blood lol. he's a guy who works
with nets and stunt doubles. he's an emotional thinker and inflexible. i love
challenging peeps like that..... they don't seem to like it so much.:cool:

my 19 year old son has a drug addiction. it's very serious and it's tearing my
heart out. we have a horrible predisposition for alcoholism / addiction.
with all my money, resources and love, i am powerless to help him.
 
If you understand the true nature of addiction you understand addicts are not going to curb their use because of risks associated with use such as dirty needles and crack pipes that cut mouths.
The differing philosophies are the conflict involved with this.

Viewpoint 1. Believes making drug use as safe as possible by trying to eliminate the secondary risks is a worthwhile endeavor because addicts will use no matter what. So may as well make the experience strictly about the drug and not the associated risks. Believes by and large addicts cant stop using and will risk their lives in other ways to get high.

Viewpoint 2. Believes assisting drug users to get high in a safe manner or in a safe environment enables the users to do drugs above beyond what they already were currently doing and legitimizes the drug use itself. Believes by and large addicts can stop using so we shouldnt help them get high or make it easier/safer for them to get high.

you've framed our arguement in a concise digestible way. i would expect
nothing less from you, dave. sometimes it takes me 2 hrs to watch 60 minutes!
 
I guess I should be polite and respond to your post, although your weak retorts leave me with little motivation to do so.


personal insults are the defense of a man who lacks solid ideas.

A man who thinks crackheads are precious deserves to be insulted.

flawed logic based on anecdotal evidence and the premise that drug addicts
are sociopaths.

I was referring to you, personally, since you brought it up in another thread recently. Not sure why I'm telling you this, you already knew it was a shot at you as shown in post #61.

drug addicts and alcoholics can lead productive lives as
evidenced by the millions who've recovered over the past 60 years in AA.

Way to throw alcoholics in there with the crackies. Nobody was talking about alcoholics. Were you afraid without the alcoholics your millions quickly turn into <1,000?

on this we agree. violent repeat offenders need to be removed from society,
one way or the other.

That's been my point the entire time, thanks for subscribing.

are you suggesting that we kill drug addicts?

Yes, the violent ones with long rap sheets. Where the hell have you been this entire time?

your plan sounds like hitler, mussolini and osama bin ladens plan.
kill everything that you don't understand or disagree with.

You scared?

You keep putting words in my mouth, my previous post clearly showed I am in favor of killing repeat violent criminals. Has nothing to do with faith, religion, fascism or race. You're starting to sound like someone struggling to defend their point of view.

i have flaws

Yes, but you should save some of them for other threads.

dood all life is precious. if we follow your philosophy we would kill
the debilitated elderly and mentally retarded .

You're no longer playing too deep in left field to get a play on the ball, you've now moved on to another ballpark completely.

Last time I checked, the elderly and retarded aren't notorious for robbing and killing people for crack.

puddles you are an ok guy but you're in over your head.

lol

when you engage in an
argument with a formidable opponenet, you can't operate backwards.

You're not even operating, you've got the wrong batteries in or something.
 
i was challenging puddmonkey because i smell blood lol. he's a guy who works
with nets and stunt doubles. he's an emotional thinker and inflexible. i love
challenging peeps like that..... they don't seem to like it so much.:cool:

You've yet to challenge me in any way, shape or form. All you've done thus far is make stuff up unrelated to the topic and chase your own tail like a dog.
 
my 19 year old son has a drug addiction. it's very serious and it's tearing my
heart out. we have a horrible predisposition for alcoholism / addiction.
with all my money, resources and love, i am powerless to help him.

This explains why you've taken offense to my posts/opinions. I'll leave it alone now, I'm not looking to make you crazy in the head like I used to jon79.
 
ahhhhhhh. this explains your comment about how weak it is to depend on other peeps. " i don't need anybody" attitude. your inordinate time on internet chat boards. endless procession of casual relationships.
1000.00 bucks to a donut, you don't travel much or break routine. you hoard "stuff" and have a difficult time letting go, literally and metaphorically . being wrong , admitting flaws and general introspective
thought is a foreign concept. not married and hold others who are in a secret contempt. " i'm smarter than that." you think with a smug confidence. YOU CANNOT TOLERATE BEING CHALLENGED!
anything that even resembles being vunerable or experiencing intimacy is shunned like the plague! your cynicism and critical humor is a thin veil that hides a deep fear of being imperfect. you openly admit
to abusing xanax and lortab but you don't count that as a drug like heroin or crack.

but i'm just another internet crack pot. who cares what i think? what do i know? you should discount everything i say and rest in the satisfaction that i'm another EF nut case.

btw, alcoholics, true pure alcoholics who don't do drugs have a much harder time recovering then do druggies. any long term memeber of AA will confirm this. and as predicted you can't defend yourself intellectually
so you resort to insults and cynicism. pudds, being able to negotiate chat boards and spell checking peeps shouldn't be conflated with intelligence.
 
This explains why you've taken offense to my posts/opinions. I'll leave it alone now, I'm not looking to make you crazy in the head like I used to jon79.

my philosophical views are independent of my sons situation. these
views preceded my boys problem.

i am not jon79. i like jon, but i'm in a different place then jon.

anyone reading these post would conclude that you're the one
"getting crazy in the head" lol.

you've been lashing out with accusations and insults.

pudds, i can be a real ass. i'm methodical and calculating. you would
never admit it, but i can profile you and hit your buttons like a slot
machine. i have an ability that cuts both ways. i usually use it in
a productive way, but on occasion i get a lil nasty.

you maintain your "winning" position. you are like the guy in the ring whos had the shit kicked out of him, but he will not lay down......i sorta respect that.
but you'll also resort to playing dirty pool because your ego can't stand it.
 
btw, i have my own set of fucked upness that prolly eclipses yours. i'm sure that my son had some faulty parenting that contributed to his addiction. 15 some odd yaers ago, when he was a baby and toddler, i wasn't as in tune with
my emotional self. i think i taught him to get bigger, smarter and quicker than his problems. this is a maladaptive strategy in life. furthermore, between my marriages, he and his brother witnessed my womanizing. i feel like i've
let him down. i am not ok pudds, you are right about that.
 
they can always dispense tubes of bacofoil on the days they're out of pipes, bonus

give a man a fish, you feed him for a day
teach a crackhead glassblowing…
 
ahhhhhhh. this explains your comment about how weak it is to depend on other peeps. " i don't need anybody" attitude. your inordinate time on internet chat boards.

In a 24 hour period I'm on-line about two hours. It's been this way for awhile.

1000.00 bucks to a donut, you don't travel much or break routine.

I worked for an airline for a decade, I used to travel 5-6 times a year. Airports get old after awhile.

you hoard "stuff"

Duh

not married and hold others who are in a secret contempt

lol Marriage isn't for everyone bro. In fact, you're on your what, third?

YOU CANNOT TOLERATE BEING CHALLENGED!

Settle down BlKlNlMOM

you openly admit
to abusing xanax and lortab but you don't count that as a drug like heroin or crack.

Ah yes, the real reason you're all bent out of shape surfaces again.

lol@openly admitting to abusing xanax

Taking xanax once every 5 months is hardly abuse
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/c...mbiens-failing-me-fml-714545.html#post9597827

As for hydrocodone, lately I've been taking more than I ever have in the past, and that's averaging 1 pill a week. Hope I don't OD :worried:

but i'm just another internet crack pot. who cares what i think? what do i know? you should discount everything i say and rest in the satisfaction that i'm another EF nut case.

Ok, sounds good.

pudds, being able to negotiate chat boards and spell checking peeps shouldn't be conflated with intelligence.

Did you mean navigate?

anyone reading these post would conclude that you're the one
"getting crazy in the head" lol.

Sure

you've been lashing out with accusations and insults.

Right

i can profile you and hit your buttons like a slot
machine.

That I'd like to see.

you maintain your "winning" position.

I'm about to take my victory lap now :roadster:

but you'll also resort to playing dirty pool because your ego can't stand it.

Dirty pool? Is that some sort of prison sex slang?

i am not ok pudds, you are right about that.

I'm always right. The sooner you come to realize this the sooner we can all move on.
 
In a 24 hour period I'm on-line about two hours. It's been this way for awhile.

let's see..... 15 hrs sleep/ binge eating, 3 hrs doctor shopping for xanax -lortab
4 hrs video games........ yep, 2 hours seems bout right.


I worked for an airline for a decade, I used to travel 5-6 times a year. Airports get old after awhile.

cleaning bathrooms in an airport for 10 years must have gotten old!
and by the way, driving 2 counties over to buy weed doesn't constitute
"trave
l."

Duh



lol Marriage isn't for everyone bro. In fact, you're on your what, third?

it's ok puddles, this is the 21st century. no one cares if your gay. "i'm
not the marrying type." lol the gay mantra of every closet queen in the
world. and yes i'm on my 3rd. there's a definite correlation between
multiple marriages and a comensurate amount of divorces lol!


Settle down BlKlNlMOM

i like and i miss her presence here.

Ah yes, the real reason you're all bent out of shape surfaces again.

puddles, i deal with sharks in business almost on a daily basis. i have 4
children and 270 employees and subcontractors in 32 states. bent outa
shape is my natural condition.:biggrin:


lol@openly admitting to abusing xanax

Taking xanax once every 5 months is hardly abuse
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/c...mbiens-failing-me-fml-714545.html#post9597827

As for hydrocodone, lately I've been taking more than I ever have in the past, and that's averaging 1 pill a week. Hope I don't OD :worried:


yep, every body i know takes 1 lortab a week and would you like to buy
some prime real estate idaho?:D

Ok, sounds good.



Did you mean navigate?

nope, i meant negotiate. definition: get around over or through, to deal with.
you should put down the joy stick and pick up a book from time to time.

Sure



Right



That I'd like to see.

puddles, a wise man once said , the unexamined life isn't worth living.

I'm about to take my victory lap now :roadster:

it's hard to make that lap in a 74 pinto!:)


Dirty pool? Is that some sort of prison sex slang?

again, pick up some books bro and these common place terms won't confuse
you as much. eventually you'll be able to understand some obscure references
and you might even develop some creativity in your humor.


I'm always right. The sooner you come to realize this the sooner we can all move on.

lol you gay guys are just like womenz..... always gotta be right!
 
You kids so crazy!
 
You kids so crazy!
Shrimpy told me to tell you Hello, and that he is currently talking with some of the sponsors and the Mods here about having you Bant. TTYL
 
lol @ moboy doing anything in life other than failing.

Plus, hes been saying that for a year now. Tell him to work faster.
 
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