Late-night post-workout carbs.

[SteelWeaver]

Sorry, I know this question has been asked before, but just want to double-check. So many contradictory posts.

Workout is approx. 7-9pm. Post-workout protein shake with some high GI carbs 9:30 or so, final meal 11:00 or so. When cutting, assuming calories are below maintenance level, is it better to stop eating complex carbs by 4 or 5pm or so, or to have some in the last 2 hours before bed to refill glycogen stores?

MS - I know you said one time it didn't make any difference, and that refueling was more important, but that was for gaining mass. You recommended 2g carbs per kg. Is it the same when cutting?

I know there are people here who've tried both ways - any differences?

 

[diamonddiceclay]

In MY opinion, when cutting, do not have carbs late in the day

 

[wilson6]

Depends on what is happening the next day (heavy workout or cardio only).

But, I would say some simple carbs with the post wo meal, but then the final meal should be food protein (was going to say meat) and veg for carbs. Keep it really low glycemic but high protein (slow protein).

If only cardio the next day, then low carbs (veg) and protein.

2g/kg is OK on high carb days, and about 0.5/kg on low carb day.

Sure wish we could get you to start eating meat, I personally think it would make a big difference in helping you achieve your lifting goals and body composition.

If I remember, when Ms Wilson gets back from the gym she has a Met-Rx, then a couple hours later some chicken breast and veggies before going to bed. Cutting or no cutting, and always higher carbs the day before a heavy day.

If she splits her routine as she is doing now (Hannibal would approve, 2-a-days ), she will have a Met-Rx after both workouts morning and evening). She is still only working each bodypart once a week, heavy everyother regardless, just has to make time to do cardio after the weight routine. She is still able to cut very well on this system as well as maintain size and strength. The carb thing is all timing. Gotta have them to hold muscle size and keep the strength up but can't have too much or too often or the fat will not be burned, and everyone is DIFFERENT.

W6

 

[MS]

Yup, what Wilson6 said. Stick with cottage cheese or eggwhites for you last meal (plus veggies).

 

[SteelWeaver]

Thank you - that helps.

2g/kg is OK on high carb days, and about 0.5/kg on low carb day.

Er ... well, after weeks of huge and frustrating indecision I finally decided to try a 40/40/20 split, so I'm not going high/low carb right now. I figured that way, if I hit a wall along the way, I can still try carb cycling to mix things up, and in the meantime it's less complicated. (???) Dunno - never worked with macronutrients dietwise, only extreme caloric deficits.

Let's just say it's 2g/kg - would that be about half high GI immediately postworkout, then the rest low GI later?

Sure wish we could get you to start eating meat, I personally think it would make a big difference in helping you achieve your lifting goals and body composition.

If that's true, then I wish so, too. There are just so many reasons, GOOD reasons, for me to stay with vegetarianism. Besides which, I'm still a real novice. I'd like to see how far I can really push myself, for at LEAST 5 years, to build some decently mature muscle, before I even think about looking at changes like eating meat or AAS or whatever as options. It's unlikely I ever will resort to them, but I still think at this stage it would be inappropriate for me to consider them. (I know I shouldn't lump those 2 in the same category, but they're both the same no-no to me).

Anyway, thanks again.

 

[Suzie]

Eating meat...

I think W6 has right, on that eating meat thing.
Trust me, I have also been a vegetarian, but when I began eating meat, I made huge changes in my body!
Much more harder and fuller etc. I wasn`t the only one who noticed that.
I wish I had (before&after) pictures to show You that... but I have only after...

 

[AE86Turbo]

Would love to see those pics suzie.

Anyway you gotta have protein. Whether it comes from food or not, It is very important

 

[wilson6]

"far I can really push myself, for at LEAST 5 years, to build some decently mature muscle, before I even think about looking at changes like eating meat"

1) mature muscle is meat. You want to build it but not eat it?

2) you're not getting any younger you're only slowing you're progress that age will slow regardless. In five years it may be harder to build muscle than it is now, so it makes no sense not to optimize as much as possible now.

3) Eating meat cannot be compared to taking steroids from a health perspective. No comparison.

" Er ... well, after weeks of huge and frustrating indecision I finally decided to try a 40/40/20 split, so I'm not going high/low carb right now. I figured that way, if I hit a wall along the way, I can still try carb cycling to mix things up, and in the meantime it's less complicated. (???"

Come on Steel, get with the program. You're line of thinking here makes no sense. You ask for all this advice, we take the time to post, use your head and plan out a diet. Others have done what you are planning on doing and have had better results with carb cycling, why take the half-ass approach to this?

How hard is 2.0 x bodyweight in kilos and 0.5 x bodyweight in kilos? and a 3 day at 2.0 and 2 day at 0.5?

This ain't rocket science. A pencil, paper and calculator will do the job. Quit making excuses and work out a program for yourself.

W6

 

[SteelWeaver]

1) mature muscle is meat. You want to build it but not eat it?

Heh heh - better rippling on me than putrifying on my plate or in my gut! If Clarence Bass, Bill Pearl and MS can do it, why not me?

2) you're not getting any younger you're only slowing you're progress that age will slow regardless. In five years it may be harder to build muscle than it is now, so it makes no sense not to optimize as much as possible now.

Point taken - but who knows where I'll be even 2 years from now? I don't think I'm making terrible progress - maybe it's a little slow - I don't know - everyone's DIFFERENT. But I DO know that I'm making better progress even than some of the skinny guys over on the training board. And according to one of MS's posts about gains in LBM, I'm gaining LESS LBM right now than I will be once my bodyfat drops and I start eating more again after my comp. I would like to go through a few comp. prep, cycles to see how my body responds. This is reasonable, no?

3) Eating meat cannot be compared to taking steroids from a health perspective. No comparison.

There are many more levels besides health upon which the two cannot be compared, but from a psychological perspective, they're very similar for me.

Come on Steel, get with the program. You're line of thinking here makes no sense. You ask for all this advice, we take the time to post, use your head and plan out a diet. Others have done what you are planning on doing and have had better results with carb cycling, why take the half-ass approach to this?

How hard is 2.0 x bodyweight in kilos and 0.5 x bodyweight in kilos? and a 3 day at 2.0 and 2 day at 0.5?

This ain't rocket science. A pencil, paper and calculator will do the job. Quit making excuses and work out a program for yourself.

Well, actually, I've planned out about 6 or 7 diets, down to the last half gram, in the past few weeks. I've posted several of them, here and on the diet board - I got practically zero response. It took two weeks before I could even nail down the calorie numbers.

I have pages and pages of calculations, and more pages and pages of daily meal plans. I've read Mr X's and Par Deus' articles on carb cycling, and have read many other posts on the same subject. I still don't understand EXACTLY why it's supposed to be better, but I got the idea that basically, it keeps the body guessing with regard to glucose metabolism (??)

Anyway, on the other hand, MS swears by a 40/40/20 or 45/45/10 split, and has stated that she and her clients have come in totally shredded on this type of diet. I figured, with her being vegetarian, and generally knowing what she's talking about, that if it could work for her, then it could work for me.

So what's a girl to do? You and MS can generally be regarded as being the most knowledgable and experienced people on this board with female BB'ing diets, but you have entirely opposing philosophies. How'm I supposed to choose??

2.0 x bodyweight in kilos and 0.5 x bodyweight in kilos is easy. How much protein, how much fat? How many calories? I'm on 2000/day (170lbs/77kg).

And please don't think I don't appreciate your posts, or the time it takes - I do - I don't know what I'd do without this forum.

 

[SteelWeaver]

Bump for W6