Ketosis and fat burning

[PwB]

Wow, u really are NOT up to date on any research or information on ketogenic dieting. Start off reading THE book on ketogenic dieting, Lyle McDonald's "The Ketogenic Diet". Mr X writes some good articles, (and if he keeps up to date with the research, he'd agree the ratios need not be adhered to, if not, he's just wrong)but no one knows more about ketogenic diets than Lyle, and I've conversed on-line with him personally, as well as read it strait from his book, that the ratio of protein to fat (70% fat, 30% protein is actually what Duchaine reccommends in BodyOpus) means absolutely nothing in terms of fat loss or adapting to ketosis. Again, a diet of 100% protein will allow just as deep ketosis as 30% protein, if protein levels are the same (obviously calories wouldnt be) Fat just acts as a calorie ballast to prevent too much of a slowing of metabolic rate in a ketogenic diet, as well as to provide food varietiy, fullness, EFA's, test. production. You are VERY WRONG, and need to keep up to date on the info, your spouting info thats dead wrong and its been for years (hell, at least since 98 when Lyle wrote his book)

BMR is Basal Metabolic Rate, calories burned at rest. I said 8-12 calories per lb. bodyweight for fat loss, I didnt say this is his BMR. And actually, the majority of bodybuilders don't follow a high fat, low/no carb diet. Most follow a high protein, moderate or low carb, moderate or low fat diet for precontest. But u don't seem to know much about dieting other than Duchaine's outdated BodyOpus book (which is a great, entertaining book, BTW).

 

[Ted_SFD]

Pwb great info. I'll follow your directions for next two weeks and we'll see. Furthermore, I need to put my hands on Lyle McDonald's book, it seems like best sorce of knowledge abot ketodiet.
Anyway, today is my carbup day so finally some bread potatoes and orange juice (not some aspartam shit )
Have a great weekend

 

[shackabolan]

I thought one of the primary reasons for a higher fat intake was to avoid entering a primarily gluconeogenisis state, or using protein as the predominant energy source. with a higher fat intake theoretically you would experience less muscle catabolizing. Once you enter a gluconeogenesis dominant state it's challenging to keep the body from catabolizing the energy expensive muscle. As far as the body is concerned protein is protein (muscle) and in a panic sitation (Ketosis) it will use any means necessary to survive. It's easier to breakdown burdenous muscle rather than wait for another protein refeed. Eating higherfat for most people on ketogenic diet is mandatory to maintain muscle.

 

[MrMakaveli]

The only reason to add fat to a ketogenic diet is too keep calories from going too low. Fat is NOT required to hold on to your muscle. If you fill the brains glucose needs for the day plus a little extra for lifting, etc but protein is still low-enough to establish ketosis muscle will not be catabolized unless you are very very lean, in which case sort of a anti-ketosis measure is developed by the body.

 

[MrMakaveli]

The above being said.feed the body only whey protein and it will use muscle for energy due to the rate whey enters the blood-stream, so stick with meat.

 

[PwB]

MrMakaveli, on your last 2 posts. Right and right (except perhaps the last part about the anti-ketosis. What is happening basically is very low levels of leptin screwing up other hormones, making the brain sense starvation. At this point (very lean) muscle might be sacrificed no matter what diet unless taking steroids. Ketosis wont stop, just that muscle will be cannibalized regardless b/c at very lean many people are near death and the way the body ultimately works is to lose muscle and fat relatively evenly so that when death is reached, the body has depleted muscle and fat fairly evenly) . Besides, that, listen to the man.