Interesting Vitamin C post

[celica]

Gen Smedley Butler won TWO (2) MEDALS of HONOR, and deserved another; Linus Pauling won TWO (2) NOBEL PRIZES. I trust their insight over today's politicians or media or "our" DEPT. Homeland Security.

http://www.orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v01n12.shtml

Orthomolecular Medicine News Service, Vitamin C Beats Bird Flu and Other Viruses, Too (OMNS) High dose vitamin C is a remarkably safe and effective treatment for viral infections. [1,2] In high doses, vitamin C neutralizes free radicals, helps kill viruses, and strengthens the body's immune system. Taking supplemental vitamin C routinely helps prevent viral infections. The Avian Flu (or Bird Flu), so often mentioned by newspapers, magazines and other news sources, is a particularly severe form of influenza. It should probably be called Poultry Flu, since almost all of the 150 or so human infections have come from domestic poultry. [3] Interestingly, the symptoms of avian flu include hemorrhages under the skin, and bleeding from the nose and gums. These are also classical symptoms of clinical scurvy, which means a critical vitamin C deficiency is present. This means that vitamin C (ascorbate) is needed to treat it. Severe cases may require 200,000 to 300,000 milligrams of
vitamin C or more, given intravenously (IV) by a physician. This very high dosing may be needed since the Avian Flu appears to consume vitamin C very rapidly, similar to an acute viral hemorrhagic fever, somewhat like an Ebola infection. What should you do if you think you have a viral infection - any viral infection - coming on and IV vitamin C is not readily available? Nobel laureate Linus Pauling said that as soon as you feel the symptoms of sniffles, a cold or the flu, take oral doses of thousands of milligrams of vitamin C. For best results, take vitamin C in evenly divided doses during the waking hours. Continue taking vitamin C on this schedule until, Pauling says, you have loose stool (just short of diarrhea). After having loosened stool, reduce the vitamin C dosage reduce by about 25 per cent. If you have another loose stool, reduce the vitamin C again, but if the symptoms of the viral infection begin to return, increase the dosage. You will quickly learn how much
vitamin C to take; even children can learn to do this. Continue until you are completely well. Vitamin C greatly shortens the severity and duration of viral illnesses. Vitamin C expert Robert Cathcart, M.D., specifies very high therapeutic doses of vitamin C. For a severe cold: 60,000 to 100,000 milligrams/day. [4] For most influenza (flu), 100,000 to 150,000 mg/day. [5] For Avian (Bird) Flu, 150,000 to 300,000 mg/day.[6] Remember: Vitamin C replaces antiviral drugs at saturation (bowel tolerance or loose stool) levels. The reason very high doses of a vitamin can cure an illnesses is because a disease-induced deficiency of that vitamin can be a cause of the illness. As for the safety of this approach: There is not even one death per year from vitamins. Pharmaceutical drugs, properly prescribed and taken as directed, kill over 100,000 Americans annually. Hospital errors kill still more. Unlike drugs, with vitamins, the range of safe dosages is extraordinarily large. What
is Orthomolecular Medicine? Linus Pauling defined orthomolecular medicine as "the treatment of disease by the provision of the optimum molecular environment, especially the optimum concentrations of substances normally present in the human body." Orthomolecular medicine uses safe, effective nutritional therapy to fight illness. For more information: http://www.orthomolecular.org Take the Orthomolecular Quiz at http://www.orthomolecular.org/quiz/index.shtml The peer-reviewed Orthomolecular Medicine News Service is a non-profit and non-commercial informational resource. Editorial Review Board:
Abram Hoffer, M.D., Ph.D.
Harold D. Foster, Ph.D.
Bradford Weeks, M.D.
Carolyn Dean, M.D. N.D.
Erik Paterson, M.D.
Thomas Levy, M.D., J.D. Andrew W. Saul, Ph.D., Editor and contact person. Email: [email protected] To UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.orthomolecular.org/unsubscribe.html
To subscribe at no charge: http://www.orthomolecular.org/subscribe.html References:
1. Gorton HC, Jarvis K. The effectiveness of vitamin C in preventing and relieving the symptoms of virus-induced respiratory infections. J Manipulative Physiol Ther. 1999 Oct;22530-3. "Vitamin C in megadoses administered before or after the appearance of cold and flu symptoms relieved and prevented the symptoms in the test population compared with the control group."
2. Smith L. (Ed) Clinical guide to the use of vitamin C. (Also published as: Vitamin C as a fundamental medicine: Abstracts of Dr. Frederick R. Klenner, M.D.'s published and unpublished work) 1988. F. R. Klenner, M.D., "reports cases of influenza, encephalitis, and measles easily cured with Vitamin C injections and oral doses." http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/198x/smith-lh-clinical_guide_1988.htm
3. http://my.webmd.com/content/article/112/110522.htm
4. Cathcart RF. Vitamin C, titrating to bowel tolerance, anascorbemia, and acute induced scurvy. Medical Hypotheses, 7:1359-1376. http://www.orthomed.com/titrate.htm
5. Cathcart RF. Treatment of the flu with massive doses of vitamin C. http://www.orthomed.com/mystery.htm#treatment
6. Cathcart RF. Avian (bird) flu. http://www.orthomed.com/bird.htm (end)

"Do not let either the medical authorities or the politicians mislead you. Find out what the facts are, and make your own decisions about how to live a happy life and how to work for a better world." - Linus Pauling

Getting well is done one step at a time, day by day, building health and well being

 

[lanky]

ehhh...i have never given an IV or IVPB of ascorbic acid, or have seen one given in a hospital setting. 100,000-150,000 mg ascorbic acid IV....WOW. i have a headach from 750 mg oral, Most patients today in certain cases of infection/pre op/post of are prescribed IV antibiotics, when you run IV ascorbic acid at that high of levels who knows how that will effect the metabolism of other medications they are currently taking as well as Y-site compatibility. Not common, not practical.

 

[Lifterforlife]

Interesting ....Poliquin has been advocating some nonsense like 50cc bag of Vit. C 2x/week I believe it is of vit. C by IV and you can get down to 2.8% bf without changing diet or cardio.

I believe he has gone off the proverbial deep end. During the interview, he was actually getting an IV!

 

[lanky]

in high doses there are theories that vit. C ,lycopene, beta carotene, astaxanthin, other carotenoids act as pro-oxidants. there is a reason Vit C is made oral, it is not invasive(as compared to IV) and oral bioavailable, .

 

[celica]

Vitamin C: Panacea?

Perhaps the most underutilized nutrient, Vitamin C is not actually a vitamin at all. Produced in the livers of higher mammals such as goats and sheep, and in the kidneys of lower animals like fish and lizards, Vitamin C is truly a metabolic product derived from one of the sugar molecules. In our discussion we use the terms ascorbic acid and Vitamin C interchangeably. As highly evolved creatures as human beings are, it seems that we have lost the ability to produce perhaps one of the most important nutrients known to man. Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) is required in well over 400 known chemical reactions in the body in order for them to be carried out most efficiently. One of the most important ones is in the formation of the substance collagen. Collagen is the material that keeps us together and makes our skin and connective tissues more elastic and resilient.

What's the problem?

As hypothesized by Dr. Irwin stone in his book entitled The Healing Factor, some 50+ million years ago, when ape-like ancestors of ours lived an arboreal lifestyle (in trees), there was an abundance of citrus and ascorbic acid containing foodstuffs to provide the organisms with an adequate daily dose. It is believed that with the abundance of Vitamin C available, the organism no longer needed to tax its metabolism with the production of it. A crucial enzyme, L-Gulonolactone Oxidase, which is responsible for the conversion of the sugar molecule, had been mutated out of the genetic code..
All of the other organisms on the planet today who can produce Vitamin C have this enzyme. Only roughly 5 or 6 different types of creatures cannot produce it- humans, primates, guinea pigs, fruit bats, and some modern birds and fish. All others produce it in their livers and kidneys as mentioned above. Some physicians, such as Doctor Mary, recommend doses far greater than those that are usually given. These doses are based on the animal models in nature. If we look at one of these animals, a goat for instance, we will find that on any given day, just walking around, without stress, this animal will produce between 5-15 grams of ascorbic acid. If we average this out to 10 grams, this is the required dose that is recommended to aid the immune system in normal, optimal physical health. This same goat, if stressed, will produce 5-10 times its baseline levels of ascorbic acid. That is, it will produce, in its liver, between 50 and 100 grams, in response to the stresses. Without the enzyme, humans cannot provide their systems with the anti-oxidant protection that ascorbic acid was designed to provide. Back to the story.

As evolution pushed on, these organisms progressed towards a bi-pedal existence (walking on two feet). Since there was no longer a ready supply of life sustaining ascorbic acid, these organisms experienced seasonal fluctuations in health and sickness. During the spring and summer months there was an abundance of ascorbate rich food. On the contrary, during the winter months they experienced death, plague, and epidemics of infectious diseases. Perhaps the terrible plagues of the middle ages could be directly related to the lack of ascorbate in the diet during those times.

In more recent times, during the 17th and 18th centuries, thousands of apparently healthy young sailors died while on long voyages overseas from the disease scurvy, or a lack of ascorbic acid in their diet. Of note, credit should be give to the british naval surgeon Dr. James Lind, who while on a long voyage discovered that the juice of one half of a lime would prevent the terrible disease from occuring. This is the reason british sailors are referred to as "limeys".

In modern times credit should be given to men such as Albert Sczent-Gyorgi, who discovered the molecular structure of ascorbic acid, Irwin Stone, who in working closely with Sczent-Gyorgi, performed many experiments and wrote several books and articles on the subject, and Frederick Klenner, a practicing physician from North Carolina who pioneered the use of ascorbic acid in a clinical setting. Dr. Klenner successfully treated thousands of patients with every diagnosis imaginable with mega-doses of C. Also of note is Dr. Robert Cathcart who developed the concept of bowel tolerance in oral consumption of C as well as the use of high dose C therapy in serious infections such as aids, pneumonia and influenza.

Bowel tolerance dosing.

The concept of bowel tolerance dosing with Vitamin C is an important one as it can greatly reduce the severity and strength of many if not all acute disease processes. The procedure is as follows: Pure ascorbic acid powder is preferred, but if patients have gastrointestinal problems, buffered powder can be used. In general, 1 level teaspoon of powder equals 4000mg. At the onset of symptoms patients will start taking 1/2 to 1 teaspoon of Vitamin C powder in juice or water every hour on the hour until they experience loose bowels. In a healthy individual, the tolerance level may only be 10 to 15 grams, as the body has less stress and the requirement is much lower. However, in the stressed individual, patients are frequently amazed at the amount of C they can consume before loose bowels occur. This is easy to understand as the requirements increase tremendously in illness.

Side effects???????

There are many unsubstantiated claims about Vitamin C ranging from causing kidney stones to helping cancer grow. We can tell you- irrefutably- that this is one of the greatest lies in medicine. If Vitamin C caused stones, every emergency room in the Gulf South would have standing room only for patients writhing in pain from excess C consumption and their stones. The walls of the clinic would be lined with buckets full of stones. This is simply not the case. In fact, with over 30 billion milligrams given and about 1 million milligrams per day, we continue to prove this claim incorrect. It is amazing how inadequate and improper research can skew the public eye. There are, however, some things to watch out for.

Vitamin C can cause an increase in the absorption of iron. This can be good and bad. People who are iron deficient, for whatever reason, can benefit from its use. There are some patients who have a disease called hemochromatosis with excess iron in their bodies. These people may be affected by excess Vitamin C, so they must pay attention to too much use of it. Nonetheless, they can safely take several thousand milligrams without fear. Another group of patients, usually of Mediterranean descent, may have something called Glucose-6-Phosphate Dehydrogenase deficiency (aka: G6PD). G6PD deficiency patients may develop breakdown of their red blood cells, hemolysis, if exceptionally large doses of Vitamin C are given. In the last thirty years we have seen 2 or 3 of these cases, and these patients were in the hospital receiving large doses intravenously. Again, these patients may take several thousand milligrams orally with impunity. Finally, some patients may test positive on the stool occult blood test and should refrain from large doses when this testing is to be done.

Proper dosages

As mentioned above, we feel that all humans require around 10,000mg (10 grams) per day. This is easily acquired if taken in divided doses. We prefer the powdered ascorbic acid and if 1 teaspoon is taken in juice or water twice a day, it is easy to approach the level. Remember, everyone is different. Some may not need as much and some may require more. Also remember that if gastrointestinal problems occur, you may need a buffered variety that is not as acidic.

 

[SOURPUSS]

my wife also gives these drips to many of her patients, great stuff

 

[win19]

Gen Smedley Butler won TWO (2) MEDALS of HONOR, and deserved another; Linus Pauling won TWO (2) NOBEL PRIZES. I trust their insight over today's politicians or media or "our" DEPT. Homeland Security.

http://www.orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v01n12.shtml

Orthomolecular Medicine News Service, Vitamin C Beats Bird Flu and Other Viruses, Too (OMNS) High dose vitamin C is a remarkably safe and effective treatment for viral infections. [1,2] In high doses, vitamin C neutralizes free radicals, helps kill viruses, and strengthens the body's immune system. Taking supplemental vitamin C routinely helps prevent viral infections. The Avian Flu (or Bird Flu), so often mentioned by newspapers, magazines and other news sources, is a particularly severe form of influenza. It should probably be called Poultry Flu, since almost all of the 150 or so human infections have come from domestic poultry. [3] Interestingly, the symptoms of avian flu include hemorrhages under the skin, and bleeding from the nose and gums. These are also classical symptoms of clinical scurvy, which means a critical vitamin C deficiency is present. This means that vitamin C (ascorbate) is needed to treat it. Severe cases may require 200,000 to 300,000 milligrams of
vitamin C or more, given intravenously (IV) by a physician. This very high dosing may be needed since the Avian Flu appears to consume vitamin C very rapidly, similar to an acute viral hemorrhagic fever, somewhat like an Ebola infection. What should you do if you think you have a viral infection - any viral infection - coming on and IV vitamin C is not readily available? Nobel laureate Linus Pauling said that as soon as you feel the symptoms of sniffles, a cold or the flu, take oral doses of thousands of milligrams of vitamin C. For best results, take vitamin C in evenly divided doses during the waking hours. Continue taking vitamin C on this schedule until, Pauling says, you have loose stool (just short of diarrhea). After having loosened stool, reduce the vitamin C dosage reduce by about 25 per cent. If you have another loose stool, reduce the vitamin C again, but if the symptoms of the viral infection begin to return, increase the dosage. You will quickly learn how much
vitamin C to take; even children can learn to do this. Continue until you are completely well. Vitamin C greatly shortens the severity and duration of viral illnesses. Vitamin C expert Robert Cathcart, M.D., specifies very high therapeutic doses of vitamin C. For a severe cold: 60,000 to 100,000 milligrams/day. [4] For most influenza (flu), 100,000 to 150,000 mg/day. [5] For Avian (Bird) Flu, 150,000 to 300,000 mg/day.[6] Remember: Vitamin C replaces antiviral drugs at saturation (bowel tolerance or loose stool) levels. The reason very high doses of a vitamin can cure an illnesses is because a disease-induced deficiency of that vitamin can be a cause of the illness. As for the safety of this approach: There is not even one death per year from vitamins. Pharmaceutical drugs, properly prescribed and taken as directed, kill over 100,000 Americans annually. Hospital errors kill still more. Unlike drugs, with vitamins, the range of safe dosages is extraordinarily large. What
is Orthomolecular Medicine? Linus Pauling defined orthomolecular medicine as "the treatment of disease by the provision of the optimum molecular environment, especially the optimum concentrations of substances normally present in the human body." Orthomolecular medicine uses safe, effective nutritional therapy to fight illness. For more information: http://www.orthomolecular.org Take the Orthomolecular Quiz at http://www.orthomolecular.org/quiz/index.shtml The peer-reviewed Orthomolecular Medicine News Service is a non-profit and non-commercial informational resource. Editorial Review Board:
Abram Hoffer, M.D., Ph.D.
Harold D. Foster, Ph.D.
Bradford Weeks, M.D.
Carolyn Dean, M.D. N.D.
Erik Paterson, M.D.
Thomas Levy, M.D., J.D. Andrew W. Saul, Ph.D., Editor and contact person. Email: [email protected] To UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.orthomolecular.org/unsubscribe.html
To subscribe at no charge: http://www.orthomolecular.org/subscribe.html References:
1. Gorton HC, Jarvis K. The effectiveness of vitamin C in preventing and relieving the symptoms of virus-induced respiratory infections. J Manipulative Physiol Ther. 1999 Oct;22530-3. "Vitamin C in megadoses administered before or after the appearance of cold and flu symptoms relieved and prevented the symptoms in the test population compared with the control group."
2. Smith L. (Ed) Clinical guide to the use of vitamin C. (Also published as: Vitamin C as a fundamental medicine: Abstracts of Dr. Frederick R. Klenner, M.D.'s published and unpublished work) 1988. F. R. Klenner, M.D., "reports cases of influenza, encephalitis, and measles easily cured with Vitamin C injections and oral doses." http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/198x/smith-lh-clinical_guide_1988.htm
3. http://my.webmd.com/content/article/112/110522.htm
4. Cathcart RF. Vitamin C, titrating to bowel tolerance, anascorbemia, and acute induced scurvy. Medical Hypotheses, 7:1359-1376. http://www.orthomed.com/titrate.htm
5. Cathcart RF. Treatment of the flu with massive doses of vitamin C. http://www.orthomed.com/mystery.htm#treatment
6. Cathcart RF. Avian (bird) flu. http://www.orthomed.com/bird.htm (end)

"Do not let either the medical authorities or the politicians mislead you. Find out what the facts are, and make your own decisions about how to live a happy life and how to work for a better world." - Linus Pauling

Getting well is done one step at a time, day by day, building health and well being

Great post.


I'm also a vitamin C advocate. I take anywhere from some 2,000-8,000 mg/day (oral). I've also exceeded those limits. But the dosages are interspliced throughout the day - to allow an efficient absortion (not above 3,000mg at a time) and avoid diahrrea. I've noticed differences from vitamin C. Vitamin C also has a smorgasbord of benefits potentially participating in the reduction or elimination of diseases such as scurvy, cancer, obesity, cardiovascular conditions (heart disease, stroke), neurodegenerative diseases (Alzheimer's, Parkinson's disease, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis,etc), and likely supporting a reduction in mental disease in general, etc. but also supporting the immune system, healthy skin, etc. There is nothing to really indicate high doses are harmful to healthy people, but may actual be benefical to people with diseases like cancer.

 

[heavyweightchamp]

good post bro.

 

[Maxgain]

This is absolutly mental and off the walls 100-300g a day people need checking out.
Vit C is water soluble will not partition into fat and typically a level of 1.5g will reach a max blood conc before you piss it out.

And kidney stones is a problem which is why caution has been raised in the medical prescribing for doses up to and above 10g. This post is actually laughable to recommend 300g of an antioxidant a day as treatment

 

[win19]

This is absolutly mental and off the walls 100-300g a day people need checking out.
Vit C is water soluble will not partition into fat and typically a level of 1.5g will reach a max blood conc before you piss it out.

And kidney stones is a problem which is why caution has been raised in the medical prescribing for doses up to and above 10g. This post is actually laughable to recommend 300g of an antioxidant a day as treatment

In regular people you won't see any kidney stones, people like Klenner already addressed this issue (kidney stones result from metabolic perversion in processing vitamin C, and there are also small amount of people who have rare genotypes that convert most of the ascorbate into oxalate and thus cannot handle higher doses, see p.118-9 of: Cancer and Vitamin C (1993) by E. Cameron, L. Pauling). It's sad though, that high dose vitamin C does not receive more research, it's not that it is not effective, because there are other doctors swearing by the results. But it is because there is an agenda here. There's no money in vitamin C, as another researcher notes of such type of research trials: "However, such trials may never be conducted due to uncertain government financial support and lack of pharmaceutical interest in research which does not sell a product." (Some vitamins associated with decreased risk of AIDS and death. [No authors listed] AIDS Treat News. 1995 Jan 6;(No 214):3-6).