If you don't train to failure, how do you know when to increase the weights?

[blut wump]

I think it's ok to visit the gym with prayer beads and meditate in the curling cage for 20 minutes. If the gods want you to grow muscle then it should come.

 

[Madcow2]

Wouldn't be safe to say that everyone is different and what works for some, may not work for others? Sheesh.

Oh it's safe, but the main problem is that that very line is used to rationalize some of the stupidest crap known to man. So while it's true to a degree, we are all carbon based life, mammals, and human - very very close to each other without much in the way of significant deviation. So while some might experience results at a certain point in time (experience/training history) or prefer to train one way vs. another there are some pretty common elements to us all. Largely, what has worked over time has been taking a given individual and increasing capacity (let's say 10,8, or 5RM or 10x3, 8x3 or whatever) in the big core exercises that train the body as a system (granted, some will take enough drugs to try to get around this creatively but that doesn't mean it's optimal or good). Now, how to go about best increasing capacity is the real issue and that's going to vary greatly based mostly on goals, training history (what a lifter has been doing) and what he or she might best do going forward rather than any type of different physiology although obviously there is a bit of varriance going on but nothing that's too significant to obscure or eclipse the major factor.

An example might be looking at a beginner vs. an advanced lifter - the best way to train a beginner (load the bar session to session and long strings of back to back PRs in the core lifts for example) has pretty much abysmal success for an advanced athlete. What works for the advanced athlete will either kill or result in very slow progress for a beginner. Very different protocols but nothing to do with physiology or being intrinsically different at that level and everything to do with the state of the athelete.

 

[EnderJE]

Oh it's safe, but the main problem is that that very line is used to rationalize some of the stupidest crap known to man....Very different protocols but nothing to do with physiology or being intrinsically different at that level and everything to do with the state of the athelete.

Fine, but at the same time, you have religous camps on this training method vs that training method.

Some say to use belts for everything, some say to not use belts no matter what. Some say to ATF. Some say not to use ATF. Some say to elevate heels, some...you get the idea.

 

[Madcow2]

Fine, but at the same time, you have religous camps on this training method vs that training method.

Some say to use belts for everything, some say to not use belts no matter what. Some say to ATF. Some say not to use ATF. Some say to elevate heels, some...you get the idea.

Oh I do, it's a good point and I'd be very leary of anyone who says something has to be one single way (although biomechanics and physics in the squat, you should at least break parallel this is a pretty exact science). A good example is in OL - Bulgarians and Russians go about things in fairly different ways but still the results are fairly comparable and excellent in both cases. Of course, both those ways are logical, systematic, based on a fair amount of science, and validated in practice. Today in PL you get a lot of people down on linear periodization but it didn't hold back Ed Coan or any of the greats in the recent past to a large degree. In bodybuilding, most people just don't have a clue so even though the statement is true that there are a lot of ways to skin a cat and that everyone is a bit different - the overwhelming majority is out hunting dogs, skinning rats. supplementing their diet with yarn without a clue what a cat might even look like. So in a bodybuilding context, I generally cringe when I see that 'everyone if different find out what works for you' because I've seen it used mostly to support horrendous garbage.

 

[EnderJE]

So in a bodybuilding context, I generally cringe when I see that 'everyone if different find out what works for you' because I've seen it used mostly to support horrendous garbage.

lol..true...true...

I guess we've all seen our own share of horror stories.

 

[Protobuilder]

Great thread. Don't know how I missed it. Anyway, Glenn and madcow both talk about "making a change" when you hit failure (ie, stop progressing) for a few weeks on end. Above, Glenn talks about changing set/rep scheme, and I understand that. I just wonder if it makes any difference what kind of change you make or how you determine whether to change to 10x3 or 2x10 or w/e. Anymore guidance on what kind of change to make?

Edit: just re-read this from Glenn Pendlay & Mark Rippetoe's interview w/ Matt Reynolds, and Glenn talks about making changes.

Matt: Second, Glenn and I touched on this in our interview earlier this year, but could you review the basics and importance of loading, unloading, and peaking while giving specific attention to manipulating the overall stress of a program by keeping intensity high and varying volume?

Glenn: It is my opinion that much of the “periodization” that is done by many people focuses too much on changing the means of training, and not enough on changing the overall difficulty or stress on the body.

Changing the means of training can be things like changing exercises, rep schemes, or rest periods. If you use these as your sole means of variation in training, you may still never load your body hard enough to evoke a response, or allow it the rest needed to realize the performance gain. Bear in mind here that I am talking about intermediate/advance athletes. I believe that an athlete needs to have periods of high stress training, and periods of low stress training. I also believe that if you do this, concentrate on changing the stress level of your training from week to week and month to month more and changing the training means less, it allows you to be more efficient in training, to stick to what works in other words. There are only so many changes you can make in rep schemes and exercises before you are doing things that aren’t of much use to your particular sport.

 

[Protobuilder]

Bump to hear any thoughts on my post immediately above. I'd really like to get as much discussion going on around here on programming as possible, seeing as how it's so critical, but so misunderstood or ignored by most lifters.