How's this for some hardcore shit?

[koolkatarbtl]

I'm 19 and been on TRT for about 3 months now (legit, endo prescribed, as I have secondary hypogonadism).

Anyway, the "cool trend" around these parts nowadays is injecting T Sub-Q in the abdomen. My endo said it is the best way to go and has all his patients doing Sub-Q.

With all the Sub-Q T and HCG all going in the same area constantly, I was running out free space so I decided "fuck it" and pulled out a fresh 1" 20g needle that I normally use to DRAW with, and went IM in the left delt.

I gotta say, I was surprisingly calm for my first IM shot. It didn't hurt at all. Almost less painful than Sub-Q. Once it penetrates the skin, it goes in slow, but smooth. I made sure to aspirate... no blood. Perfect. Injected it, pulled it out and was good to go.

The only thing that worried me as an abnormal amount of the oil leaked out of the injection site (nothing to get worried about, but more than injecting sub-Q). I'm guessing because of the thicker hole the needle created, it would have an easier time traveling back up, but it's still pretty weird considering I had the whole 1 inch needle deep in the delt.

 

[pappad]

How long did you leave the needle in? Oh and props for hitting with a 20g log!!!! LOL

 

[sopac]

I'm 19 and been on TRT for about 3 months now (legit, endo prescribed, as I have secondary hypogonadism).

Anyway, the "cool trend" around these parts nowadays is injecting T Sub-Q in the abdomen. My endo said it is the best way to go and has all his patients doing Sub-Q.

With all the Sub-Q T and HCG all going in the same area constantly, I was running out free space so I decided "fuck it" and pulled out a fresh 1" 20g needle that I normally use to DRAW with, and went IM in the left delt.

I gotta say, I was surprisingly calm for my first IM shot. It didn't hurt at all. Almost less painful than Sub-Q. Once it penetrates the skin, it goes in slow, but smooth. I made sure to aspirate... no blood. Perfect. Injected it, pulled it out and was good to go.

The only thing that worried me as an abnormal amount of the oil leaked out of the injection site (nothing to get worried about, but more than injecting sub-Q). I'm guessing because of the thicker hole the needle created, it would have an easier time traveling back up, but it's still pretty weird considering I had the whole 1 inch needle deep in the delt.

I was wondering being on TRT and all how much T are you allowed to get from your endo? Can you get more than prescribed?

 

[hesnobradpitt]

I've been ready about this subq trend it seams to be only with small shots and tne = test no ester or susp , so what are you using, transgender use 1 water based shot a week and thats the only people who i have found info on .

Brad.

 

[airsmith2k]

u can shoot oil based test with a slin pin?

 

[koolkatarbtl]

I've been ready about this subq trend it seams to be only with small shots and tne = test no ester or susp , so what are you using, transgender use 1 water based shot a week and thats the only people how i have found info on .

Brad.

Nope. Believe it or not I was using sesame-oil based testosterone enanthate Sub-Q with a .5" 27g needle. Took ages to inject. There are a couple of studies done showing it's able to "maintain steady testosterone levels" in men who were previously doing their shots IM for a certain amount of years.

Believe it or not, if your gear is clean (mine is prescription, so I know it's legit), the worst side effect you will experience is a slight bump at the injection site that dissapears after about a week.

No stinging, no burning and NO absesses. All the studies done so far were used with T enanthate (and it's what my endo and others use with their patients).

We know it works and causes minimal side effects. The only thing we don't know right now are
1) Long term sides of injecting oil Sub-Q.
2) Aromatisation ratio compared to IM.

Of course, there is no way you can inject 500mg of test Sub-Q, so I guess that's why it's absolutely unheard of on AAS boards and relatively common practice on HRT boards.

 

[koolkatarbtl]

I was wondering being on TRT and all how much T are you allowed to get from your endo? Can you get more than prescribed?

Yes, I can use up to 250mg a week without anyone noticing with the way the automatic refills work in this part of the country. I choose not to, though. Did I mention I don't pay a dime?

 

[koolkatarbtl]

u can shoot oil based test with a slin pin?

Slin pin would *really* be pushing it, but yes, it would be possible if you're willing to wait half an hour to inject, and another to draw (since you can't change needles on slin pins).

27g at most. Takes about 1 minute for the injection. Use a bigass needle to draw.

 

[Tux]

Actually, you could easily shoot 1g/week of test sub-q. I've made painless test enanthate at 500mg/ml with 1/2 ethyl oleate that was thin enough that 1cc would go through a slin pin in 20 seconds or less. 1cc, twice a week, alternate sites on the abs... and since ethyl oleate is thinner and absorbs a little quicker than the oil part of the solution, you wouldn't even have the same size bump YOU do. Hmm.. now that I think about it, why wouldn't this work? Insulin/GH/IGF/HCG all work basically just as well IM or sub-q.. but they are all water-based. Anybody willing to try this? If no one volunteers, I will next time I cycle, but I have a competition in august and don't want to try something new this close! Seems to me though, that the oil forms a slowly-dissolving depot in your muscle... it would do the same in your sub-q fat, it's just that it's more visible in the sub-q fat and muscle has a better blood supply than fat in most cases. I bet it would work though, I'll try this next bulker if no one else has by then.

 

[advanced-stealth]

20g Ohhhhh

 

[koolkatarbtl]

Actually, you could easily shoot 1g/week of test sub-q. I've made painless test enanthate at 500mg/ml with 1/2 ethyl oleate that was thin enough that 1cc would go through a slin pin in 20 seconds or less. 1cc, twice a week, alternate sites on the abs... and since ethyl oleate is thinner and absorbs a little quicker than the oil part of the solution, you wouldn't even have the same size bump YOU do. Hmm.. now that I think about it, why wouldn't this work? Insulin/GH/IGF/HCG all work basically just as well IM or sub-q.. but they are all water-based. Anybody willing to try this? If no one volunteers, I will next time I cycle, but I have a competition in august and don't want to try something new this close! Seems to me though, that the oil forms a slowly-dissolving depot in your muscle... it would do the same in your sub-q fat, it's just that it's more visible in the sub-q fat and muscle has a better blood supply than fat in most cases. I bet it would work though, I'll try this next bulker if no one else has by then.

How do you mix oil and a water-base together?

Also, as for "why";

No stinging, no burning and NO absesses. All the studies done so far were used with T enanthate (and it's what my endo and others use with their patients).

We know it works and causes minimal side effects. The only thing we don't know right now are
1) Long term sides of injecting oil Sub-Q.
2) Aromatisation ratio compared to IM.

Also, if you run out of place on your abdomen and decide to do Sub-Q with more than 1CC in the thigh or arm area, what would happen if someone accidentally hits you on that bulging pocket of oil? What if you bump into something?

Another problem I'm encountering with Sub-Q is that I approach sub-10%BF territory, it's becoming increasingly impossible to inject anywhere.

 

[smtimelevi]

HRT at 19? WTF? Why come?

Maybe I can get some RX Test E

 

[Tweakle]

Be sure to have some antibiotics and a scalpel on hand if you plan on doing multiple SubQ shots & mixing oil and water in one shot

the reactions I've had from accidental subQ leakage from a depot are always unpleasant, I can't comprehend anyone wanting to do it deliberately unless there was a different carrier involved.. some pharm companies are working on replacements for oil which might make this feasible (biotech worker on another board posted their research a couple of years back), but oil/BA/BB? Ouch.

Absorbtion cannot be anything like as good as from muscle tissue, and the chance of encapsulation must be way higher

 

[GUARDIAN]

I reported something on this awhile back.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/s...cutaneous-injections-testosterone-577997.html

 

[chazk]

I read online about docs doing this with 200mg a week or one CC and that was all
the lump was down by the following week and the shots are rotated in the adomen.

prob is fat has very low circulation the deposit does not release as effective or as quick.
A major issue for someone that is steroid tested. later if they loose bodyfat the trapped steroid will release from the fat and could pop a postive on a test .

 

[dabuffguy]

Yes, I can use up to 250mg a week without anyone noticing with the way the automatic refills work in this part of the country. I choose not to, though. Did I mention I don't pay a dime?

You don't pay a dime? You son of a bitch, hook me up. Damn that's some sweet shit dude. good for you.

 

[koolkatarbtl]

I read online about docs doing this with 200mg a week or one CC and that was all
the lump was down by the following week and the shots are rotated in the adomen.

prob is fat has very low circulation the deposit does not release as effective or as quick.
A major issue for someone that is steroid tested. later if they loose bodyfat the trapped steroid will release from the fat and could pop a postive on a test .

Very, very interesting. Still too many unknowns. That's why I'm gonna stick to IM for now. So far, I'm luvin' it.

TRT at 19? Why? Because I have T levels of a 60 year old without it. Could I live a normal life without it? Yep. What is the point? Same as a 30 year old injecting tons of gear. Quality of life.

Hell, I'll make all of you a promise. I'll be the first ever documented kid who started TRT at 19. As soon as I hit 25, I'll make a new thread, and we'll see where I'm at.

 

[Powerbuilder333]

I'm against injecting anywhere with a 20 guage - lol.
Next time man up and use a pencil !!!

 

[bbulla00]

I'm against injecting anywhere with a 20 guage - lol.
Next time man up and use a pencil !!!

don't let this steal the 20g glory or anything but when I used to give plasma (I didn't do it long, and I know it isn't good for me...at least now I do) we used 16 gauge needles that stayed in the arm vein for 1 1/2 hours.

Haha. those crazy sons of a bitch take your blood out then run it through a "plasma filter" to steal the plaz, then they put your red blood cells only back in your body through the needle.

After 3 times of that, they put a big bag of room temp. saline in your arm which is as COLD as ANTARTICA IN JANUARY!

....don't give plasma bodybuilders.

 

[hesnobradpitt]

. I bet it would work though, I'll try this next bulker if no one else has by then.

I know of some one who did a subq 2 ml , 250 test 1/2 ml EQ 1/2 ml Tren the lump stayed there a week and hurt to touch he said it was the worst experinent he'd done , i had some leak from a quad shoot and got a skin infection that infected a 12inch patch of my leg so im not up for it .


Brad.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Oil based = IM. Don't fuck around with rumors from retards.

 

[Mac173]

I'd be leary of sub q w/ an oil based compound. Maybe the research will prove otherwise over time.

 

[koolkatarbtl]

I'd be leary of sub q w/ an oil based compound. Maybe the research will prove otherwise over time.

You guys just are not listening. Sub-Q oil-based T enanthate injections have a "so far so good" status, not "holy fuck why did I decide to be a guinea pig and inject this shit half an inch into my skin".

Patients, from all over, are reporting that it works just fine and has a very minimal side effect profile. All you guys that tried it and have gotten infections or massive burning and stinging are doing something terribly wrong, as the whole process is completely painless if done right. Even post-injection, the site should not be warm, itchy or red. Just a slight "bump" or elevation under the skin that goes away in time. I should know, I've done at least 20 Sub-Q T enanthate injections and the *worst* that ever happened was oil leaking out, which can often be remedied by simply holding the needle in for 30 seconds after finishing the injection. Coincidentally, I am using the same brand (delatestryl) t. enanth. as used in all the studies and its the only brand and type of T used for Sub-Q in this part of the world. Guys use prop or cypionate often report adverse effects such as stinging.

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/men-...ng-testosterone-subcutaneously-134237662.html

STABLE TESTOSTERONE LEVELS ACHIEVED
WITH SUBCUTANEOUS TESTOSTERONE
INJECTIONS
M.B. Greenspan, C.M. Chang
Division of Urology, Department of Surgery, McMaster University,
Hamilton, ON, Canada
Objectives: The preferred technique of androgen replacement
has been intramuscular (IM) testosterone, but wide
variations in testosterone levels are often seen. Subcutaneous
(SC) testosterone injection is a novel approach; however,
its physiological effects are unclear. We therefore investigated
the sustainability of stable testosterone levels using
SC therapy. Patients and methods: Between May and
September 2005, we conducted a small pilot study involving
10 male patients with symptomatic late-onset hypogonadism.
Every patient had been stable on TE 200 mg IM for
41 year. Patients were instructed to self-inject with
testosterone enanthate (TE) 100 mg SC (DELATESTRYL
200 mg/cc, Theramed Corp, Canada) into the anterior
abdomen once weekly. Some patients were down-titrated
to 50 mg based on their total testosterone (T) at 4 weeks.
Informed consent was obtained as SC testosterone administration
is not officially approved by Health Canada. T
levels were measured before and 24 hours after injection
during weeks 1, 2, 3, and 4, and 96 hours after injection
in week 6 and 8. At week 12, PSA, CBC, and T levels
were measured however; the week 12 data are still being
collected. Results: Prior to initiation of SC therapy, T
was 19.14+3.48 nmol/l, hemoglobin 15.8+1.3 g/dl, hematocrit
0.47+0.02, and PSA 1.05+0.65 ng/ml. During
the first 4 weeks, there was a steady increase in
pre-injection T from 19.14+3.48 to 23.89+9.15 nmol/l
(p¼0.1). However, after 8 weeks the post-injection T
(25.77+7.67 nmol/l) remained similar to that of week 1
(27.46+12.91 nmol/l). Patients tolerated this therapy with
no adverse effects. Conclusions: A once-week SC injection
of 50–100 mg of TE appears to achieve sustainable and
stable levels of physiological T. This technique offers
fewer physician visits and the use of smaller quantity of
medication, thus lower costs. However, the long term
clinical and physiological effects of this therapy need further
evaluation.

There's no doubt that it works - it does work. Sayin "oil based compounds go into muscle only" is basically like covering your ears and going "LALALALLA I DONT CARE" I'm only switching over to IM because it's a lot less painful and scary as I once thought. Kicks in faster, too. I woke up this morning with the most raging hard-on I've gotten in a while, no doubt from yesterday's IM injection kicking in.

 

[GUARDIAN]

I'd be leary of sub q w/ an oil based compound. Maybe the research will prove otherwise over time.

check out the link i put up a few posts earlier

 

[koolkatarbtl]

check out the link i put up a few posts earlier

According to convention if we inject oil-based AAS into the fat layer beneath the skin and above the muscle (subcutaneous) it will impair absorption and could delay dissapation of drugs for many weeks or months. New research conducted at the Royal Victoria Hospital in Canada at the endocrine clinic tested the viability of subcutaneous shots.

The study involved 22 patients who were using the clinic for testosterone replacement therapy. The AAS was testosterone enanthate. The subjects were instructed to self-administer their testosterone subcutaneously once per week. The same 1ml that would have been injected once every 2 weeks was divided up into .5ml weekly injections. Blood tests which were conducted periodically throughout the 1 year investigation were suprisingly and unquestionably consistent. For exactly 100% of patients enrolled, testosterone levels remained in the physiological (normal) range for the entire duration of the study. This included both peak and trough levels (high & low during each week). Furthermore injections were extremely well tolerated. Each patient took over 50 injections and not one single adverse reactionn was noticed at the injection site.

The investigation concluded that not only was subcutaneous testosterone enanthate a viable option as far as drug release , but it was safe, cheap and far more comfortable for their patients compared to intramuscular injections.

Well it may be unrealistic to inject a full throttle cycle via subcutaneous. Recall the patients were injecting .5ml a week. And we all know there are many aas users who far exceed this volume/dosage on a weekly basis. It also does not mean that every oil-based aas, even in low to moderate dosages, will be viable for subcutaneous. It is possible that some aas based on their preservatives, carriers, concentrations, or natural properties of active substances may be more irritating to local tissues when given subcutaneously.

Still the possibility of a subcutaneous cycle cannot be excluded especially for those using reasonable doses in the 1 ml range.

Saudi Med J, 2006 Dec;27(12):1843-6 courtesty of W. Llewellyn

 

[centy]

Oil based = IM. Don't fuck around with rumors from retards.

Haha. Eloquent.

 

[koolkatarbtl]

Haha. Eloquent.

I'm glad we still live in a world where people view scientists that conduct peer-reviewed studies as "retards that spread rumors".

Nelson, my man, you are a pionear and you don't even know it. Perhaps one day, with your help, you and your bros can find a cure for cancer using nothing more anecdotal evidence, bullshit conjecture and (lets not forget) a heaping spoonful of UNLEASHED!!111oene, until then, I still think you're a fucking idiot.

 

[needtogetaas]

How long did you leave the needle in? Oh and props for hitting with a 20g log!!!! LOL

Way back in the day i use to hit with 18's bit it was all I could get.

 

[koolkatarbtl]

Way back in the day i use to hit with 18's bit it was all I could get.

Where were you injecting? How was it?

 

[bbulla00]

Oil based = IM. Don't fuck around with rumors from retards.

agreed!

 

[bbulla00]

Way back in the day i use to hit with 18's bit it was all I could get.

definitely not pleasant

 

[chazk]

stop being a pussy and shove the needle in your muscle.

 

[Tux]

Nelson, normally you actually seem rather intelligent, but you lost ANY respect you ever had with that comment. I've DONE sub-q injects of oil-based stuff... small amounts... it works, and no sides. Never done large amounts which is why I'm willing to be a guinea-pig. Also, what about nutropin depot? That was a 2ML injection sub-q in the stomach... that's gonna cause a big lump water or oil-based. I know, I used it, and it worked just as well as nutropin AQ. Granted, you probably can't run a full-scale cycle this way, not enough sites... but like I said, with super-thin 500mg/ml ethyl oleate-based test enth, I could easily run 1g/week with no problems. I just don't understand why you're calling multiple medical studies, all with controls, all showing positive results, as rumors from retards? Obviously most of these guys have a high IQ, as do I( quite a bit higher than yours I imagine, though let us not degrade ourselves by trying to prove who's smarter lol). My best guess is you're just mad you didn't think of it first