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How strong....
- Thread starter dood
- Start date
You're off to a bad start dood.
If you have to ask how strong you can get without juice, then you've already shot yourself in the foot.
If you have to ask how strong you can get, you'll never know.
Decide, that you can take it all the way, and that's how far you'll go. Without that mind set, without the heart, you'll never get anywhere, clean or not. All the juice in the world won't make up for a lifter that doesn't have what it takes mentally.
If you have to ask how strong you can get without juice, then you've already shot yourself in the foot.
If you have to ask how strong you can get, you'll never know.
Decide, that you can take it all the way, and that's how far you'll go. Without that mind set, without the heart, you'll never get anywhere, clean or not. All the juice in the world won't make up for a lifter that doesn't have what it takes mentally.
BigBadBootyDaddy29
New member
How strong was I before I ever juiced? Pretty fucking strong. So, to answer your question, do a search on the boards, there are a lot of guys on here who are strong as fuck before, during, after, and never with juice.
R
revexrevex
Guest
What's up with the latest trend of attacking board members when they simply are presenting their own opinion?
alright, let me tell you something else, the way you posted that thread makes me feel that you want an excuse for not reaching a certain level before using aas. you can get pretty fucking strong without drugs, but you can get even stronger with drugs. the way i see it is that with the right attitude, training program, and other factors you can get as strong naturally as your mind will take you. if you dont have the mentality to tackle the big weights then nothing can help you.
MeatHead57
New member
great words spatts you will never kno unless you i mean you!! do the hard work to reach your natural potential!!
D
DBCooper
Guest
LOL I removed my first post to see what others would say, strength is relative, at the commercial gym I was 'strong' then I went to another gym where I still get my ass kicked but am way stronger than before. It's all on how strong you thing strong is. Some handicap have the strength of ten men, some gorilla's have the same- if you ever run into a handicap gorilla run for your life because that's a strong sob! (heard that from a standup)
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DBCooper
Guest
It's before a meet thats why lol.
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DBCooper
Guest
You fix that deadlift yet Spatts?
TheProject
New member
revexrevex said:
Presentation is key.
see you this weekend you son of a bitch
S
slobberknocker
Guest
Strength is cultivated, not gained. Takes years.......of sacrifice......you'll never know when you get there, because you'll already be looking to go further......I'm rambling because I'm crazy. Sorry.
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DBCooper
Guest
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, well to make up for my lack of taking fina I took 300mg's today 
guess what I'll take tommorrow? My weights is down so no lasix!Yippeee
guess what I'll take tommorrow? My weights is down so no lasix!Yippeee
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DBCooper
Guest
Don't worry man, it was just a perception that you were saying it was needed to be strong.
R
revexrevex
Guest
slobberknocker bro get on AIM i need to tell u something
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DBCooper
Guest
and 6 d-bol and 750mgs of enathate(behind a week)
dood said:
Dood, like project said, it's all about presentation. Your first post is condescending to the people in this forum that are strong, do work hard, and are clean. Surely you can see that. I'm not personally offended by anything you said, as I'm not opperating under the illusion that I am lifetime clean or that I'm stronger off. I do think it was a bit of a presumptive slap in the face to my au naturale counterparts, though.
louden_swain
New member
You don't need the juice to get big and strong.
I have been able to get well over 200lbs without enhancements.
Here are a few athletes who are drug free and are competing athe national level:
Spatts - Female - 198lbs - 335lb bench - 440lb dead - 425lb squat
B Fold - Male - 290lbs - 440lb bench - 702lb dead - 800lb squat
Bigguns - Female - 148lbs - 235lb bench - 435lb dead - 425lb squat
There are several others. . . . if you are visiting the chat room and discussion or the anabolic board, you have 170lbers to 200lbers who are juicing, who have no physique and can't even come close to boasting these numbers.
Other noticeable athletes:
PolishHammer77
RevexRevex
Lord Suston
T3c
JOKER
You can do it all natural with hard work!
I have been able to get well over 200lbs without enhancements.
Here are a few athletes who are drug free and are competing athe national level:
Spatts - Female - 198lbs - 335lb bench - 440lb dead - 425lb squat
B Fold - Male - 290lbs - 440lb bench - 702lb dead - 800lb squat
Bigguns - Female - 148lbs - 235lb bench - 435lb dead - 425lb squat
There are several others. . . . if you are visiting the chat room and discussion or the anabolic board, you have 170lbers to 200lbers who are juicing, who have no physique and can't even come close to boasting these numbers.
Other noticeable athletes:
PolishHammer77
RevexRevex
Lord Suston
T3c
JOKER
You can do it all natural with hard work!
pwr_machine
New member
I think the original question may have been taken the wrong way by some. I'd like to know what bodyweight you're wondering about. I know tons of lifetime drug free powerlifters.
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revexrevex
Guest
Anyway, back to original post.. I definetely think that how strong you get is a function of training and time. A level of 500 deadlift, 400 squat and 300 bench is achievable to an average person in 3 - 4 years, who trains using basic exercises and not a powerlifting routine. Obviously a person training Westside will get to those numbers faster. After that level, it is just a matter of consistency, not getting injured, etc.
louden_swain
New member
As far as I am concerned there are no limits. . .all you have to do is have the drive and determination and you can achieve your goals.
D
DBCooper
Guest
ok I'll put my natural numbers crap gym meets/pr's 198-605squat 330 bench and a 550 pull at 3months after my 18th birthday, also pulled 600+ right out of the army at around 225 clean with crap training.
louden_swain
New member
dood said:
B Fold is totally natural. . . his eating habits and training methods have transformed his body.
No one trains like B Fold. . no one. These little guys who are juicing aren't even close and have no clue when it comes to training (I am talking about the 170lb and 200lb guys who have less than 4 years of training under their belt).
J
jeremys
Guest
i never make any lists 
...
anyway, shawn lattimer benched 810 in training this week...he's natural. actually i think he said he missed the very top of the lockout or somthing. but he's definitely right around 800
...anyway, shawn lattimer benched 810 in training this week...he's natural. actually i think he said he missed the very top of the lockout or somthing. but he's definitely right around 800
louden_swain
New member
dg21 said:
exactly. . .there are several of these type of athletes out there.
louden_swain
New member
dood said:
Of course some athletes deny, but you shouldn't assume that a person is juicing. . thats putting a label on someone without proof.
Also, what about the athletes who are drug tested and are able to boast huge numbers?
Never ever accept a dead end or the impossibility to achieve a unique event.
alright, i apoligize for myself and everyone else jumping on your case. personally the post pissed me off. to answer your question. i seriously think that there are natural limits for everyone, but you decide those limits, how far do you see your self going naturally? mentality and believing in yourself can take you very far. you have to think to yourself, i benched 300 natural, why cant i bench 400 natural, or even 500, and you have to beleive it. you also have to train like you want to lift some fucking weight. if you skip workouts, dont train like you have a pair, and generally arent dedicated, you might as well stick to the treadmill. weekend warriors will never lift the big weights.
JollyRogers
New member
Ids like to chime in here and say anything is possible without juice
I’m natural, been training almost a year and I have excelled without drugs...and im still climbing fast
My maxes w/o drugs
345 Bench
385 Dead
365 Squat (parallel)
Weigh 211lbs
I’m natural, been training almost a year and I have excelled without drugs...and im still climbing fast
My maxes w/o drugs
345 Bench
385 Dead
365 Squat (parallel)
Weigh 211lbs
Last edited:
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revexrevex
Guest
I thought bfold wasn't natural.
benchmonster
New member
Look, whether B Fold is still natural, or on, is nobody's business but his. It is rude to discuss such things unless he is the one talking about it.
I am clean at the moment, but have been on, and sometimes on for LONG periods of time, in the past. There are some on the boards who deny, some who don't, and regardless, it is nobody's business but their own.
As for answering the question posed by Dood. You can get insanely strong without steriods. Herman Goerner deadlifted over 700 lbs, with ONE FREAKING HAND well before steroids were even invented.
Saxon could press over 250 lbs overhead, with one hand, folks. And this was long before anyone knew what dianabol was.
Louis Cyr did a 4000+ lb backlift at the turn of the century, and that was the turn of the last century, not the one that got us into the Y2K debacle.
There have been men throughout recorded history to have done incredible feats of strength long before juice was around for the taking. Take any lifter from before the 1940's and look at his feats of strength. You can be absolutely, without any doubt at all, positive that those people were "clean" cause they had no choice.
Steroids were not widely used till the 1960's and were not used at all before the mid 50's cause they did not yet exist. And believe it or not, you little "cleanfreak" pansies, guys back then were strong too.
Saxon and Goerner did feats that have never been reproduced since. Goerner could write his name on a chalkboard while hanging a 110 lb kettlebell in the crook of his thumb. He deadlifted in excess of 800 lbs with no straps, no belt, no marathon deadlift suit and no drugs.
People get irritated about roid questions cause clean freaks like to use it as a crutch and an excuse. "well, I would be strong like that too, if I just used juice"
yeah, sure you would. If you could, then just do it. Whiners.
My training partner and I are both clean right now, but have both used in the past. We do a lot of odd lifts right now. And we are getting to a point where there are few around that can keep up. And neither of us are near to where Goerner and Saxon were, and we are both bigger than those guys.
Ask IronLion how much fun a Goerner walk is in 105 degree heat. Or how easy it is to do Russian Twists afterward.
If you are clean, and want to be strong, then quit whining, and do what guys did to get strong before steroids were even around. Train like the old time strongmen.
Don't ya kind of think that guys who are deadlifting 800+ without a belt, and putting 250+ overhead with one hand would tend to do fairly well in a powerlifting, or strongman event?
You can be, and many are, insanely strong without juice, and you can be very strong with juice. You don't need it to get strong. People have been strong without it in the past. Juice helps, in some aspects, but detracts in others. Sure it helps recovery and muscle building ability, but the excess water and hypertension can inhibit aerobic capacity, and anyone who thinks that oxygen has nothing to do with the ability to lift a weight has never passed out on a bench with 500+ lbs in their hands, due to lack of air. I have done this, it ain't fun.
Hope this answers your question.
B.
I am clean at the moment, but have been on, and sometimes on for LONG periods of time, in the past. There are some on the boards who deny, some who don't, and regardless, it is nobody's business but their own.
As for answering the question posed by Dood. You can get insanely strong without steriods. Herman Goerner deadlifted over 700 lbs, with ONE FREAKING HAND well before steroids were even invented.
Saxon could press over 250 lbs overhead, with one hand, folks. And this was long before anyone knew what dianabol was.
Louis Cyr did a 4000+ lb backlift at the turn of the century, and that was the turn of the last century, not the one that got us into the Y2K debacle.
There have been men throughout recorded history to have done incredible feats of strength long before juice was around for the taking. Take any lifter from before the 1940's and look at his feats of strength. You can be absolutely, without any doubt at all, positive that those people were "clean" cause they had no choice.
Steroids were not widely used till the 1960's and were not used at all before the mid 50's cause they did not yet exist. And believe it or not, you little "cleanfreak" pansies, guys back then were strong too.
Saxon and Goerner did feats that have never been reproduced since. Goerner could write his name on a chalkboard while hanging a 110 lb kettlebell in the crook of his thumb. He deadlifted in excess of 800 lbs with no straps, no belt, no marathon deadlift suit and no drugs.
People get irritated about roid questions cause clean freaks like to use it as a crutch and an excuse. "well, I would be strong like that too, if I just used juice"
yeah, sure you would. If you could, then just do it. Whiners.
My training partner and I are both clean right now, but have both used in the past. We do a lot of odd lifts right now. And we are getting to a point where there are few around that can keep up. And neither of us are near to where Goerner and Saxon were, and we are both bigger than those guys.
Ask IronLion how much fun a Goerner walk is in 105 degree heat. Or how easy it is to do Russian Twists afterward.
If you are clean, and want to be strong, then quit whining, and do what guys did to get strong before steroids were even around. Train like the old time strongmen.
Don't ya kind of think that guys who are deadlifting 800+ without a belt, and putting 250+ overhead with one hand would tend to do fairly well in a powerlifting, or strongman event?
You can be, and many are, insanely strong without juice, and you can be very strong with juice. You don't need it to get strong. People have been strong without it in the past. Juice helps, in some aspects, but detracts in others. Sure it helps recovery and muscle building ability, but the excess water and hypertension can inhibit aerobic capacity, and anyone who thinks that oxygen has nothing to do with the ability to lift a weight has never passed out on a bench with 500+ lbs in their hands, due to lack of air. I have done this, it ain't fun.
Hope this answers your question.
B.
jeff the lady backbreaker
Banned
who cares what your max is. what matters to me is how much i look like i can lift and symetry and being injury free
benchmonster
New member
Jeff, what your max is matters a lot. What you look like doesn't mean shit when it gets right down to it. You can look as pretty as they come, but when it gets down to nut cutting, if you ain't stout, and if you ain't got some wind, you won't stick around long.
Go piss off some collegiate wrestler who wants to tie you up into a pretzel, and then tell me how important it is to look good, vs. be strong and in good condition.
Your point about being injury free, I could not agree more, on that one.
B.
Go piss off some collegiate wrestler who wants to tie you up into a pretzel, and then tell me how important it is to look good, vs. be strong and in good condition.
Your point about being injury free, I could not agree more, on that one.
B.
benchmonster
New member
and I am not saying you can't be strong, and look good, cause, well, Hell, look at me. Adonnis asks for my autograph. LOL.
B.
B.
J
jeremys
Guest
paul anderson, mid-1900's:
bench: 625
squat: 1200
deadlift: over 1000 w/ hooks, about 800 w/o
these lifts never passed in competition because he wasn't allowed to compete. i dont remember why but it was something scandalous.
IMO, the strongest person to ever live, and natural
bench: 625
squat: 1200
deadlift: over 1000 w/ hooks, about 800 w/o
these lifts never passed in competition because he wasn't allowed to compete. i dont remember why but it was something scandalous.
IMO, the strongest person to ever live, and natural
powerforward
Well-known member
great post benchmonster
harman_2005
New member
benchmonster said:
Everybody has different androgen levels in their body, who cares if somebody wishes to raise it. Or has in the past for that matter. If you take steroids to get above a certain level once you stop taking it your body doesn't compensate and start making test at that new level, it drops down to the natural level. Accessorizing doesn't cause permanant changes unless one keeps doing so.
J
jeremys
Guest
dood said:
this was before steroids were used for athletic purposes
that guy ate a lot and trained his ass off
R
revexrevex
Guest
lol
supersizeme
New member
louden_swain said:
lol
louden, check the post that is 5 above yours. i think 1 out of the 3 on your list is not juiced
benchmonster
New member
jeremys said:
There was nowhere to compete. Powerlifting did not really exist as a sport at that time, Jeremy. Kind of like if you are really good at balancing tables on your forhead right now. You could be really good at it, but would be a little tough to compete, since there are no arranged competitions.
And the deadlift you list is a bit high. His numbers as I have seen them on a site dedicated to the old time strongmen and powerlifters were something in the 700's without hooks and in the 800's with hooks.
And lets not forget about his backlift of over 6,000 lbs. I do not disagree with your assessment that he was maybe the strongest man who ever lived. I might also put Kazmaier up there as well.
B.
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revexrevex
Guest
You people are forgetting something. Everyone is quoting old time strongmen, Saxon, Paul Anderson, whatever. Those guys were genetic freaks. Anyone disagrees?
The question asked how strong can a regular, normal person, who exercises and eats right. And BTW Why are the people who have used steroids here are the most sensitive and think people are taking away their accomplishments?
The question asked how strong can a regular, normal person, who exercises and eats right. And BTW Why are the people who have used steroids here are the most sensitive and think people are taking away their accomplishments?
J
jeremys
Guest
benchmonster said:
i understand about the competition back then now
i have seen different numbers stated for his deadlifts. your numbers are probably closer. i just listed what i found on some site a couple days ago
revex, i disagree. they were almost the only guys back then to do that kind of stuff. with the much larger number of competitors, you'd think you'd see more 'genetic freaks'
i think they just worked their asses off. i read that paul ate a couple pounds of beef a day and squatted all day on the days he wasn't training presses, taking rest breaks periodically of course
jeff the lady backbreaker
Banned
benchmonster said:
most guys who train for strength do not do any type of endurance training becuase they feel it will hinder there gains. am i right?
i wouldnt fuck with a collegiate wrestler anyways. I only box for fun sometimes spar and sometimes go at it in the ring or outside with the fellas but with gloves of course.
i noticed that the "strength only" athletes far out match the people that just want to look good.
i just like lookin gewd.
we are all different, you strength athletes need to just accept that some people lift for looks and stop hatin on us
J
jeremys
Guest
jeff the lady backbreaker said:
this may be true with the weekend warriors that claim they're powerlifters.
sled dragging, tire flipping, sprinting, etc are all great forms of GPP. yes, we do care about endurace, just a different kind of endurance; under heavy loads of weight
jeff the lady backbreaker
Banned
jeremys said:
i do these kinds of odd lifting aswell. but i still lift for looks
R
revexrevex
Guest
lol slobber it doesn't apply to you. You're out of most people's leagues
S
slobberknocker
Guest
revexrevex said:
I will speak for myself. I am offended by the question for this reason: a true warrior never, NEVER, acknowledges limits. Just the fact that this guy's brain can even formulate this question is proof that he will never be great.
S
slobberknocker
Guest
revexrevex said:
Bullshit. I crawled from the same primal ooze of smallness that everbody else is born in. I am of you. No limits, except your own.
T
t3c
Guest
slobberknocker said:
up
T
t3c
Guest
jeremys said:i never make any lists
you are on my list bro!
J
jeremys
Guest
t3c said:
louden_swain
New member
jeremys said:
Jeremy you are also on my list.
You are a natural athlete with lots of potential!!
harman_2005
New member
JOKER47 said:
I don't mean to take this thread in a completely different direction, but what is a backlift?
J
jeremys
Guest
JOKER47 said:
I honestly don't know myself. I've tried looking it up, but was not able to find a description.
If anyone can describe one, please do.
Joker
look on google for a pic
it's basically where the guy bends over and has a platform on his back and holds his hands backwards with his palms up (ever seen the guy holding the globe oh nis back?) and basically does a good morning, but the ROM is very small
benchmonster said:
http://www.mcshane-enterprises.com/ASL/anderson.html
Here's a link to a bio of Paul. It's one of the places I got the info. Lot's big lifts listed.
Just FYI,
Joker
harman_2005
New member
JOKER47 said:
Cool. Thanks for the link.
http://www.mcshane-enterprises.com/ASL/images/Anderson/squatcartwheels.jpg
This pic is so badass! Squatting with 2 huge wheels on each side!
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