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How does this happen?

JKurz1

JKurz1

Banned
Qucik scenerio, I went from a complete bodybuilding physique, to a overtrained, malnutrieshed state over the course of 4 years...starting doing triatholon after traiatholn and found myself from 220, to 160 and weaker than shit.....my diet sucked, as it was 100% clean, but lacking in cals cause I was so overtrained and never hungry....used to bench 225 for easy 15, now it's a struggle with 135........how does this happen? my test levels are below the floor and I would diet to get back to where I was....doesnt help training 7 days a week, I know, but would love some help!
 
what do you want help for... you have your answer - doing triathlons. now start eating everything in sight and get a proper workout instead of figuring out how to divide body parts in the week. take flax seed/fish oil. if things are still not happening, get your test levels checked.
 
Jk - you and I have talked about this b4.

If you continue to do the marathon cardio sessions you need to PILE on the carbs and EFA's.

you are cronically overtrained
 
JK, you've been asking this same question for over a year......sometimes planning and thinking have to take a back seat to simply doing. After all your time on discussion boards, I'd bet money you have a pretty good idea of what you need to do, it is just a matter of doing it. If you can't bring yourself to do it and you're unhappy with your physique, then maybe you should seek some form of professional counseling. Seriously, I am not trying to be an ass to you.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with being a 160lb triathlete by the way, they are some of the most amzing athletes in the world.....however, if it's not what you want, then you know what to do. It all boils down to making yourself, and in turn, your family, happy.
 
JK, i've been seeing your posts just as everyone else has been and i think biggt is right about the counselling. its probably alot deeper than just gym stuff. this is apparent over the internet, and i'm sure an expert sitting face to face with you would be a good judge. seriously, man maybe you need to consider it.
 
Are you using anything - are you tested for Triathalon? Need to get out of that catabolic state - asure an anabolic diet...
 
I know I can beat this f-ing thing with your help, but this will be my last attempt before I seek counciling.......I promise. Physc. just dont know what's it's like to a bopdybuilder and eat like one......Help me out with this one last time and I swear to you, if it doesnt work, I'm done........How do you get over the mental aspect of getting fat? Every am, I check out my abs and if they look faded, I get depressed...then I see some dude who has a show coming up in 10 days who says he is 6% and I swear I have sharper abs, so I guess my outlook on physiques is flawed as no one really has diced abs, unoess they are on stage....the problem I have is I feel bloated all the time which makes me feel fat....even if I only consume 2,000 - I dont know what it is, maybe is the gum I chew, maybe the oats, maybe it's my back problems, that just makes me feel fat and now I feel like I'm getting skinny fat which is worse...sure I have abs, but are they really abs? I mean at 160, wouldnt anyone have abs? Wont they be even better when I'm 200lbs with muscle again?

Here is my dilemma, help me understand this.....if I go all out and just eat my ass off...95% CLEAN, JUST eating when I'm hungry, minimum every 3 hours, will I get stronger and build more muscle? Or will it all be stored as fat since my joints are weak and I cant go as heavy as I want.....will the weights increase as the scale moves? Much thanks fellas!
 
do you have some joint problems that can't be solved by lifting heavy (and strengthening the joints) on a high cal diet? another thing - i seem to recall that you're also on an AAS cycle right now?
 
JK,

If you're progressively adding weight to the bar on a squat, a pull, and a press and eating more calories than you burn, you'll get stronger and grow muscle. You will put a little fat on more likely than not, but you don't have to get 'fat' per se. No healthy, 30 year old guy can't build muscle with proper training and eating enough calories.

I'm not a certified therapist or a psychologist, but it really does seem like there are deepr things going on here that are underlying that go further than ''I want to build some muscle, but struggle with fat gain".

Everybody has abs, all humans have them. The contest-shape bodybuilders you mention don't hold that condition year-round.

What I would suggest is a focus on performance and strength/speed, rather than bodybuilding. Turn the focus on what you can do, rather than how you look. You're gonna look fine anyway.

As much as you may not want to believe this, calories are calories are calories.....you cannot circumvent calories in vs calories out.....if you eat 2000 cals a day of chicken breasts or 2000 cals a day of mcdonalds french fries, it is still 2000 cals. The cleaner stuff is lifestyle choice and you'll be healthier for it, but thats all there is to it. To simplify it, it is easier to eat clean and stay lean because of total calories.

For a guy like you, I say stop measuring, weighing, and counting. For breakfast eat eggs and oatmeal, the rest of your meals eat meat, a green veggie or salad, and a starch, don't eat white flour in EXCESS, don't eat fast food in EXCESS, and don't drink alcohol in EXCESS, stop looking in the mirror and stop weighing yourself and train compound lifts progressively. Don't make a pre-planned diet, don't post about them and worry about them and don't obsess whether it is better to eat 6 cashews with your whey shake pre-bed or 8 cashews....none of it matters, stop worrying about the 1% you obsess over getting right, and start worrying about the simple 99% that you're getting all wrong.

Life is filled with real problems, bodyfat percentage isn't one of them as long as you're not obese. Good luck and I wish you the best. Feel free to start a journal too.
 
It's amazing how many people ignore important concepts because it goes against their ingrained training ideas. The battle in the gym is as much mental as it is physical. Being able to overcome mental obsticals can at least as tough as overcoming physical ones. JKurz, since you agree that what you're doing obviously isn't working for you, you need to make that leap of faith and try something different.

To all this good advice I'd like to add another single word: vacation. At this stage 2-4 weeks can only help. Get your head out of the gym and rediscover the rest of this life. Play some golf, go boating, whatever. Easy physical activity that allows you to recover and reconnect with your family and the rest of the world. Now's the time to put your massive amounts of training to good use.
 
Great stuff, everybody. I put in another vote for professional help if the advice here doesn't help (which, based on your last post, it looks like you're committed to doing).

I'm not sure what your history is before the 4-year period you outlined, but if your fear of fat gain is based on a prior period of being overweight, you just have to realize things are completely different now. You're not like the average lazy guy who accidentally glances at a gym once or twice per year, throws down fast/junk food, soda/alcohol, etc. on a daily basis and doesn't even have the basic understanding of nutrition/physiology to understand why he's fat or what he could do about it.

Especially being anal about your diet, you're in complete control (or would be if you could overcome your mental obstacles). When you eat above maintenance and gain a bit of fat (look at it as a necessary side-effect of gaining muscle, not as "getting fat"), you'll know exactly what you need to get rid of it while still retaining most of that muscle.
 
Jkurz, I'm serious man, start a training journal and for diet, just think PRACTICAL. I think you're seriously concerned about yourself and would also seriously like to accomplish some lifting goals, most trolls don't send K messages, they post polls, start topics unrelated to themselves, you seem to have a genuine, albeit neurotic concern for yourself, and you just don't fit the bill of a board troll. I actually think you're seriously asking a question, so I'd like to help and get others to help you out too.

You get flamed a lot, and I have probably been guilty of throwing one or two out at ya myself, but people just get frustrated giving advice, then a week later you're asking the same question. I really do think there is an underlying issue here, your concerns are at a level that just isn't normal and there is always an underlying issue for the abnormal (not something different or unique or even eccentric, but I am talking just plain abnormal and alarming), but if you seriously want to work through it then you can certainly overcome it, this is do-able if you want it to be. I also am serious when I say I don't think you're a troll or spammer after giving it much thought. So, I really would like to help you if you're serious. We could try to slap that 60lbs back on you, and you know what? At 6'2 you'll STILL be lean at 220, so no worries.
 
When I started, I obsessed about the details. I don’t anymore and I feel a lot better about the whole thing, more well-rounded, etc. In the end, you spend a LOT of time/stress/energy focusing on stuff that AT THE MOST makes up 5% of your results. It’s not worth it. Follow BiggT’s advice. Start letting go of the details and the micro-managing and start looking at the big, long term picture. The body is in constant flux. If you strip down and examine your physique in the mirror and weigh yourself every hour, you will see changes. If you freak when the scale moves up on Wed. but then down on Thurs (the horror!! I’m shrinking!!), you’ll make drastic changes before you’ve really let it all play out. The day-to-day highs and lows are LESS important than where you wind up in, say, the next 6 months, or the next year or two.

Get your calories up, slowly but surely. Don’t dive into 5000/day if you’re now eating only 2,000. Just slowly build up the calories and keep training (after a few weeks OFF, relaxing and NOT thinking about weights/training/bodyweight/abs).
 
You guys are all right...not sure where Bigt lost us, but something about board trolls just didnt foot the bill...what in the world were u talking about? I guess I dont know the board lingo yet....anywho, I will bet this and thnx to you guys for the words....when to the chinese buffet tonight and ate my ass off....I know it's no tthte answer, its not the way to go about it, but I'm gonna crank my friggn cals one wa or another,,,,toorrow is cracker barrel and ponderosa....maybe Johnies Pizza!
 
Why don't you lay out your plan for us in a bit more detail? You could almost certainly use the mental break from obsessing about your diet, but as a long-term plan getting most of your cals by stuffing yourself at restaurants is a great way to gain more fat than you want and start the cycle over again. And, speaking of cycles, you haven't answered SS's question.
 
JKurz1 said:
You guys are all right...not sure where Bigt lost us, but something about board trolls just didnt foot the bill...what in the world were u talking about? I guess I dont know the board lingo yet....anywho, I will bet this and thnx to you guys for the words....when to the chinese buffet tonight and ate my ass off....I know it's no tthte answer, its not the way to go about it, but I'm gonna crank my friggn cals one wa or another,,,,toorrow is cracker barrel and ponderosa....maybe Johnies Pizza!
Click to expand...


The "board trolls" post similar messages to yours about every month or so. "How do I raise my bench" "How can I gain 60lbs this summer" "How can I get a 6pack for the beach". Its the same questions, from different people, who are too stupid to read the forum first, and it pisses the older members off who have to sift through that crap to find a decent post.

GOOD work at the chinese buffet! KEEP eating. People DO NOT GET FAT overnight. This is why fat people piss me off, 'cause obviously you can see it happening in the mirror, and it takes years of consistent eating to get that fat. at 6'2" 160lbs you would need to gain at least 30-40 lbs of pure fat to "look fat". so until you are around 200lbs and sitting on the couch...don't worry.
 
JK,

I meant people flame you and don't take your posts serious because they think you're just fucking around......after giving it some thought, I really feel you're being honest and looking for help/support.

The Chinese Buffet is a great way to celebrate your 'new attitude', but moderation is key and one extreme is just as bad as the one on the other end of the spectrum.

And I agree, what are your thoughts for a workout plan when you come back.
 
BiggT said:
JK,

I meant people flame you and don't take your posts serious because they think you're just fucking around......after giving it some thought, I really feel you're being honest and looking for help/support.

The Chinese Buffet is a great way to celebrate your 'new attitude', but moderation is key and one extreme is just as bad as the one on the other end of the spectrum.

And I agree, what are your thoughts for a workout plan when you come back.
Click to expand...
I just hired a pro trainer from Cleveland....had to do it, he's also a nutrionilist and understands where my current thoughts are and why they are so fluttered,,,30 day trail, and if it doesnt work, we both agreed not only would there be no fee, but he would introduce me to a reputable counsuler......my goals are to compete in a show in 15+ months......I know it sounds crazy, but it's my goal. I've seen the local dudes on stage, and have yet to be impressed. He is orchestrated a diet, to which I will have this afternoon....calories will be around 4,000 (almost double) and carbs will be the focus early in the day and around workouts with fats on off days and in the later part of the day. Cardio will be completely nixed at first, with a 2-aday training type so that I can still get in my prework fix as I sit all day. I will follow this to a tee and already caught myself asking questions and I like his attitude. For example, I asked what is meal #1, here's the conversation:

it's 3/4 cup oats, 12 egg whites, 2tbs of honey
HONEY???? Why would I want honey?????
Hey, its a good carb source for the am, plus its extra cals, + it gets you away from those damn sf products!
ummmm.....
If you wwant, you can sub in a banana or 1 cup strawberries.......but I wish you'd just listen to m....
say no more, you are right.....I will follow your lead.....


this dude take no shit, he wants me at the store today:
oats
peanut butter
almonds
cottage cheese
lean beef
chicken
round steak
salmon
brown rice
casein powder
whey
whole wheat pasta
and olive oil...........


I get a cheat day every Sunday (or whenever....) Geezus! havent had a cheat food in YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!
 
JK, I wish you the best man, and seriously think of starting a journal and posting some progress pics.
 
yep... JK, lets see a journal with pics right here in this forum... i'm sure you will get all the support you need here :)

oh and sorry for dishing out flames in the past :)

i think you're on cycle now if i remember correctly from one of your posts. hows that going?
 
silver_shadow said:
yep... JK, lets see a journal with pics right here in this forum... i'm sure you will get all the support you need here :)

oh and sorry for dishing out flames in the past :)

i think you're on cycle now if i remember correctly from one of your posts. hows that going?
Click to expand...
NO CYCLE....went to the doc had my levels checked and they are very sub par....prob. from a calorie restricted diet, so I need to crank up the cals, rest a little more and get the back to moderate before I think about going on a cycle. Post a log? Are you nuts? To get ridiculed? Trust me, you haven't been around long enough to see what happenes and all the mombo jumbo people toss at you. Encouragement is fantastic and I appreciate you guys giving it to me. Sincerely, but to post a log isn't feasible at this point. I will post the diet he designed for my training days, you can let me know what you think. Cals are much higher than I've even been accustomed to, but I will/must stick with it....I ike his philosophies of not mixing fats and carbs, and I cant imagine putting down the meals towards the end of the day, but I will follow his lead......thanks again boys!


20 MINUTE WALK WITH THE DOG – THEN, ON THE WAY TO THE OFFICE

715-730
3/4 CUP OATS
24 EGG WHITES (OR 8OZ CHICKEN)
1 BANANA OR 1 CUP BERRIES (BLUE, RASB, STRAW)

9:30
1 CUP OATS
2 SCOOPS CASEIN

NOON
6OZ PASTA W/ OLIVE OIL
8OZ CHICKEN
LARGE SALAD

2 pm
2 scoop blend
1 tbsp natural peanut butter

4 pm
10 oz round steak
1 tbsp flax oil
(SHOULD WE FLIP FLOP MEALS 2PM AND 4PM, JUST WONDERING IF TOO MUCH WILL BE SITTING IN MY STOMACH, JUST A THOUGHT)

5 pm
train large body part and sip on 2 tbsp instant Gatorade to maintain electrolyte balance and as a good carb source.

6:30/post
1 scoop whey
50 g dextrose
50 gram from musselmans pie filling(chocolate, banana, or vanilla)


7:15
50 grams dextrose
1 cup oats
1 scoops whey

8:30
3 whole eggs, 9 egg whites (4 OZ SALMON INSTEAD OF WHOLE EGGS)
½ CUP DRY MEASURED BROWN RICE

10 pm
1 scoop blend ½ cup almonds, 5OZ DRY CURD COTTAGE CHEESE.
 
Best of luck on achieving all your goals Kurtz.

Re-read what BiggT said last time around about not getting so obsessive about your diet. It's what a lot of us have been saying throughout the year and couldn't be more true.

For a guy like you, I say stop measuring, weighing, and counting. For breakfast eat eggs and oatmeal, the rest of your meals eat meat, a green veggie or salad, and a starch, don't eat white flour in EXCESS, don't eat fast food in EXCESS, and don't drink alcohol in EXCESS, stop looking in the mirror and stop weighing yourself and train compound lifts progressively. Don't make a pre-planned diet, don't post about them and worry about them and don't obsess whether it is better to eat 6 cashews with your whey shake pre-bed or 8 cashews....none of it matters, stop worrying about the 1% you obsess over getting right, and start worrying about the simple 99% that you're getting all wrong.
Click to expand...

And yes start a log to keep track of your progress. People on here only want the best for you. We'd all like to see you get back to 225 pounds.
 
You're off to the right start....POST A LOG, lol....you won't get ridiculed on the training forum, guaranteed, it won't be tolerated. I'll start the new thread for you if you want and make the first post....and I'll see to it you don't get bashed.

A log will keep you focused and it will keep you from appearing in 3 months still weighing 160 asking the same things over and over.
 
I hope it's clear from the responses in this thread from people who usually flame you (myself included) that everyone here is very willing to offer help and support. What most people object to is repetitive questions, journal/thread hijackings and the like, not genuine efforts to learn and improve.
 
I think it would be a great idea to start a log. I would love to follow it as I would love to see a success story emerge out of this.

I actually am going to start creating a diet log as I need to lean down and it will help hold me accountable for my eating. A log can help hold you accountable too. :)
 
I'll post a log.......starting tomorrow, not on this forum though....which is more suitable? Competition forum?
 
BrownDevil said:
And the almonds. I'm dying to know about the almonds.
Click to expand...
Are we talking about a handful of almonds, or a full cup? Is it craziness to eat a whole cup of almonds if you are bulking? Wouldnt you be better eating a spoonful of cottage cheese and 3cc's of skim milk?
 
bigdaddyhammer said:
Are we talking about a handful of almonds, or a full cup? Is it craziness to eat a whole cup of almonds if you are bulking? Wouldnt you be better eating a spoonful of cottage cheese and 3cc's of skim milk?
Click to expand...


I'm thinking that 3 or 4 almonds with the oats is plenty. Don't want to get too full now...right?

Cottage cheese AND 3cc's of skim milk...YOU TALKING CRAZY TALK Hammer.
 
JK, just start the log on the training board. You're training, lol, so just put it here. You'll get lots of support and there is a good group of posters over here.

Again, like I said in the PM, if you would prefer a strict, pre-planned diet, this will work, just if it were me, I'd add broccoli/spinach/brussels sprouts (not all 3, lol, but pick 1) to one of the meals (would make sense to do it with the steak). I can tell when a bodybuilder wrote somebody a diet because they don't like leafy greens for some reason. But seriously, this is a million times better than you have been eating and really is a decent looking diet template. Once you get comfortable with it, you can start subbing in like-foods for one another to help with boredom.

You won't get fat, start the journal tomorrow too, and STAY OUT OF THE MIRROR for at least 2 months.
 
BiggT said:
JK, just start the log on the training board. You're training, lol, so just put it here. You'll get lots of support and there is a good group of posters over here.

Again, like I said in the PM, if you would prefer a strict, pre-planned diet, this will work, just if it were me, I'd add broccoli/spinach/brussels sprouts (not all 3, lol, but pick 1) to one of the meals (would make sense to do it with the steak). I can tell when a bodybuilder wrote somebody a diet because they don't like leafy greens for some reason. But seriously, this is a million times better than you have been eating and really is a decent looking diet template. Once you get comfortable with it, you can start subbing in like-foods for one another to help with boredom.

You won't get fat, start the journal tomorrow too, and STAY OUT OF THE MIRROR for at least 2 months.
Click to expand...

Please, he has been told a million times. Your wasting your time on him...
 
Hi Jkurz.. you fucktard dumb-ass piece of shit.

Go eat an almond. Not almonds as in more than one, just one and only one.

Drop dead.
 
No, House, I have not... I have been working like a madman after being off sick for a couple of weeks... then with this damn tornado, we have had no power for a day and a half...

If you know anyone, let me know...
 
BiggT said:
JK, you've been asking this same question for over a year......sometimes planning and thinking have to take a back seat to simply doing. After all your time on discussion boards, I'd bet money you have a pretty good idea of what you need to do, it is just a matter of doing it. If you can't bring yourself to do it and you're unhappy with your physique, then maybe you should seek some form of professional counseling. Seriously, I am not trying to be an ass to you.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with being a 160lb triathlete by the way, they are some of the most amzing athletes in the world.....however, if it's not what you want, then you know what to do. It all boils down to making yourself, and in turn, your family, happy.
Click to expand...

Sorry Biggie, but I must spread more karma around before hitting u again.
Nonetheless, I express my approval and admiration for that post.
Way 2 go :)
 
Cynical Simian said:
When's your first appointment?
Click to expand...
Ditto Jkurz - at this stage, you owe it to yourself. Go see someone and talk about your issues. This is important. A lot more important than looking ripped or big or whatever bullshit. As a matter of fact, screw lifting and dieting all together as they are part of the problem. Go see someone and get some help getting yourself together again. You are not seeing things clearly. Go see someone ASAP.
 
get456 said:
cured in 2 weeks... i need that guys name... lol
Click to expand...
Who the fuck are you? I dont know you, so really you have no right to inquire into my personal life...these others bros Ive known for awhile now.....feel free to post somewhere else...thanks.
 
I was a little disappointed you had your other thread closed. I thought you wanted help, even if you didn't like what people said sometimes.
 
It was just gettn ou of hand.....tis all, loved the help just not able to eat as much as I'd like to with the thoughts of my levels....I am gonna get tested in 12-15 weeks after a really good pct......well see fom there brutha.........
 
JKurz1 said:
It was just gettn ou of hand.....tis all, loved the help just not able to eat as much as I'd like to with the thoughts of my levels....I am gonna get tested in 12-15 weeks after a really good pct......well see fom there brutha.........
Click to expand...

no it wasn't getting "ou of hand." you just weren't getting the answers you wanted. you need help. seriously.
 
cmdubs said:
no it wasn't getting "ou of hand." you just weren't getting the answers you wanted. you need help. seriously.
Click to expand...

amen
how many people on how many friggen boards need to tell you this
seriosuly,
 
JKurz1 said:
Who the fuck are you? I dont know you, so really you have no right to inquire into my personal life...these others bros Ive known for awhile now.....feel free to post somewhere else...thanks.
Click to expand...


if you dont want strangers inquire into your personal life dont open threads on a public board with personal questions on personal issues.
 
Strangers, or guys I known over the years...you my friend are a stranger...Shawdown, Bigt, SIlver, the responses I truly respect, I've known for years....inqiry on my personal life is ok, just repect my decision. Thanks.

Funny thing is I've done years and years of research......many dudes on this board train for a year, are 19 years old, have no idea as to how to train or eat, no pct lined up and are given the go-ahead to use 1,000g of test for 20 weeks......
 
JKurz1 said:
Strangers, or guys I known over the years...you my friend are a stranger...Shawdown, Bigt, SIlver, the responses I truly respect, I've known for years....inqiry on my personal life is ok, just repect my decision. Thanks.

Funny thing is I've done years and years of research......many dudes on this board train for a year, are 19 years old, have no idea as to how to train or eat, no pct lined up and are given the go-ahead to use 1,000g of test for 20 weeks......
Click to expand...
so how's it going then? any updates on when the cycle will start? what's the cycle like? i'm assuming you're going to go ahead with the cycle after all.
 
JKurz1 said:
Strangers, or guys I known over the years...you my friend are a stranger...Shawdown, Bigt, SIlver, the responses I truly respect, I've known for years....inqiry on my personal life is ok, just repect my decision. Thanks.

Funny thing is I've done years and years of research......many dudes on this board train for a year, are 19 years old, have no idea as to how to train or eat, no pct lined up and are given the go-ahead to use 1,000g of test for 20 weeks......
Click to expand...

yeah you respect them so much that you dont follow their advice. funny thing is that although you have done years of reseach and know so much about dieting and training, you are a 165lbs-man who is looking all over the internet for someone giving him the go-ahead to start a cycle.

I am not your friend. :)
 
petpre61 said:
yeah you respect them so much that you dont follow their advice. funny thing is that although you have done years of reseach and know so much about dieting and training, you are a 165lbs-man who is looking all over the internet for someone giving him the go-ahead to start a cycle.

I am not your friend. :)
Click to expand...
Nor do I want u to be.....but thanks....

250mg cyp 2x a week, mild dose, easier to recover, etc........all in all, it's gonna helpo me to feel better, train harder and EAT! First meal was huge, slammed it and am craving for more......it's amazing what can be donewith the mindset the test will be flowing once again....need to feed the machine!
 
so you've started the cycle already? just one thing - cycle or no cycle, you could provide training updates similar to the log you were maintaining... or continue the same log? what do you say?
 
Well, if the cycle is underway then enjoy the ride. You'll start to feel some difference in about two to three weeks, maybe a shade longer.
 
Nah.....dont need a faster response, but thanks boys...eating has gone well today, bloated, but I am cranking the cals!!
 
JKurz1 said:
Nah.....dont need a faster response, but thanks boys...eating has gone well today, bloated, but I am cranking the cals!!
Click to expand...


At least now you'll just eat already, lol. I'll be following along.
 
JKurz1 said:
nutting to follow....ill pm you
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you should have this thread locked too so it gets the heck off the board.

if there's no log and you are moving ahead and all is kosher with your therapist because you are cured, there's not much point in discussing 'how does this happen' anymore or rehashing it as you tell people you have solved the problem and have it all together now. it's in the past, lock this worthless thing, let it be gone forever, move on and good luck.
 
Yes lock it...worthless? If you say so...no need to argue with you about stupid things.....we all have our difference of opinions...I am no fan of your training style, but I would never slam it......to each his own.
 
JKurz1 said:
Yes lock it...worthless? If you say so...no need to argue with you about stupid things.....we all have our difference of opinions...I am no fan of your training style, but I would never slam it......to each his own.
Click to expand...

My training style is emphasizing progress - there is no style, one chooses the style or organization and planning that is applicable. If progress is unimportant to you - well I'd suggest rectifying that. My posts and use of 5x5 style templates are meant to teach the use of planning and methodology since they tend to be simple, effective, and intuitively easy to grasp. Despite having 24 posts and being the 10th most prolific poster in that 5x5 thread, I recall absurd levels of frustration and rock bottom levels of success trying to explain it to you. Still, most have found the information there valuable and digestable. Many have implimented it or similar methodology with good success both here and accross the internet. Given that my table of contents page (not the entire site) which links to it gets 200-400 hits per day and almost all redirect here, it's probably still pertinent and in use.

In contrast, this thread is about your personal problems and lack of success or ability to do anything about it. You have now solved these problems apparently and have no interest in addressing them again and will be contacting people via PM (basically my summary of your recent posts here). Hence this post is worthless and should be locked. It's not like this and your other thread are going to serve as models for others dealing with similar problems. If you think that it's doing any good, or are interested in continued discussion on the topic of your personal life and decisions then say so, otherwise have it locked or enlighten us as to what purpose this thing could serve.
 
I'm suprised to read that someone with a whopping 135lb bench isn't a fan of progressive poundages in the big lifts.

You'll like Madcow's new 5x5x5x5x5 template, it involves training 5 times a day for 5 hours at a time while eating 5 almonds every 5 days and posting 5 times an hour about how you're not getting any bigger
 
Madcow2 said:
you should have this thread locked too so it gets the heck off the board.
Click to expand...

+1

JKurz1, you're getting pissy at people that don’t say what you want to hear, you're bitching at people for commenting in this thread because they are not your "internet friend". You need help.

Madcow had some really good advice on page 3 of this thread. He said forget about training, all together until you get help, as the training is part of the bigger problem.

You need to deal with your insecurity issues (properly) first. Filling your body with drugs is not a solution, just another part of the problem. It is clear that yo are not "cured" after only a few sessions, no one is.
 
Tweakle said:
I'm suprised to read that someone with a whopping 135lb bench isn't a fan of progressive poundages in the big lifts.

You'll like Madcow's new 5x5x5x5x5 template, it involves training 5 times a day for 5 hours at a time while eating 5 almonds every 5 days and posting 5 times an hour about how you're not getting any bigger
Click to expand...


You're missing a verry important 5.

You must also take 5 dumps a day to completly clens the body of impurities and make room for all the muscle you're going to build.
 
ok.....im not pissy...nor do i have a 135lb bnch, and i am completely confident...my joints/spport are weak from yrs of dieting.....the cmnpd lifts i am weak in will come up to snuff after my diet is in check n my body realizes its not dying anymore...nothing to do with gear, everything to do with diet,training and rest.........
 
djeclipse said:
You need to deal with your insecurity issues (properly) first. Filling your body with drugs is not a solution, just another part of the problem. It is clear that yo are not "cured" after only a few sessions, no one is.
Click to expand...

I only read like three posts by the guy and could figure that out...

like i said... i need the name of his "therapist" if he is cured that fast... andif he was "cured" he wouldnt be here anymore...
 
boy, you guys are having too much fun on this thread....should I make u a couple more?

Hey, in all honestly I wont bore you with my problems...just gonna offer feedback to ?'s posted as I know I am pretty knowledgeable.....now applying it to myself is a different game. It's been three days and if I do need a therapist (not denying that in the least)..I am gonna have fun for a few months first....might as well enjoy this fantasy world, eh? 250mg should produce some nice gains since I know my taining (psssst. just once a dayh now, cardio only 3 x a week) and diet are spot on. 14x a week I used to go the gym..14x friggn days. Now it's 5 MAX! and for my diet, I havent cheated in many many many years....nor have I gone above 3,000k in the same time. 4400 now is crazy, work, but i's gettn done, thank u test. Cleaner than shit diet but all the better....psssst. almost 170.....55 more!

Tomorrow I get two cheat meals and I am sooo looking forward to it that I will prob. blow it cause I wont know what to get...then Ill feel like puking. My trainer had a box of oreos at 3am last week cause he woke and the commerical was on....30 pb doubx stuffed. He went to cc's and got 3 whole large pizzas and 3 plates of pasta tonight with one left for sunday....

Im thinking dinner movie , desert tomorow eve then movie food! Sun, all u can eat and more! ANy truthful ideas? I want some of those kids cereals, choc chip pudding and rice cakes...jar of pb and 8 boxes of bars Ive had in my closet for years!
 
i didnt read all the posts, but why dont you eat and find out what it does for you...

instead of asking what will eating everything do to me?

we dont know, we are not ur body.

just eat and lift... pretty simple, hmm?
 
TheOak84 said:
i didnt read all the posts, but why dont you eat and find out what it does for you...

instead of asking what will eating everything do to me?

we dont know, we are not ur body.

just eat and lift... pretty simple, hmm?
Click to expand...
u are brilliant!!!!!!!
 
I'm keeping my word as I told a few bros here that I would and posting a quick update. Not much time.

Yesterday I met with my trainer, he was happy but coulda been happier. I weighed in at a mere 169lbs, up about 14 from 21 days ago, so it's ok, not great but ok.

He's constructing a new diet today, so I should have it tonight. All I know is he is adding a minimum of 4tb of pb, 1 am, 1 more pre and 2 more on my pillow so to speak.

I also think he's reducing a little fat, or fiber as the bloat sometimes is pretty painful. I have every dig. enzyme made, none seem to really do the trick. Its that balloon feel when I sit down like in the "pussy patch" region.....prob. from 4400 cals.

He was also pissed that I should have taken 6 cheat meals thus far and havent taken any. I have two this week (TODAY!) but Ive been pretty weak about it. Too many peeps say dont cheat so I have yet to. I was planning on a huge feast last night and again tonight with a few sundaes and some double stuff (maybe 30) but it didnt happen. Problem? I saw the world trade center movie last night and am still pretty sick from it.......I literally almost walked out within the first 20 minutes.........man! :worried:
 
Okay, so it's a journal with at least periodic updates.

JKurz1 said:
He was also pissed that I should have taken 6 cheat meals thus far and havent taken any. I have two this week (TODAY!) but Ive been pretty weak about it. Too many peeps say dont cheat so I have yet to. I was planning on a huge feast last night and again tonight with a few sundaes and some double stuff (maybe 30) but it didnt happen. Problem? I saw the world trade center movie last night and am still pretty sick from it.......I literally almost walked out within the first 20 minutes.........man! :worried:
Click to expand...

Advice - the cheat meals are more important for you than any training or diet management. You must weaken the hold this stuff has on you. In your shoes it's better that you skip the gym for a week completely than miss one of these. If something is going to get in the way of your cheat meals - avoid it at all costs until you get this thing moving and some momentum.
 
JK, good to see the scale moving in the right direction.....I want to second NOT missing cheat meals.....whoever told you not to cheat is either (a) a moron, (b) someone who does not understand your situation, or possibly both.
 
Madcow2 said:
Okay, so it's a journal with at least periodic updates.



Advice - the cheat meals are more important for you than any training or diet management. You must weaken the hold this stuff has on you. In your shoes it's better that you skip the gym for a week completely than miss one of these. If something is going to get in the way of your cheat meals - avoid it at all costs until you get this thing moving and some momentum.
Click to expand...
CANT TELL IF THIS WAS SERIOUS OR ANOTHER SLAM...SOUNDS LIKE you are for real, and I realize that...it is extremely importatnt....just need some guidance.....
 
there she is....my trainer almost walked out on me when I said people are saying do not cheat it only results in fat gain...he goes, are you listening to me or them? Let me know know now so I stop wasting my time. He then went on to say it doesnt have to be the weekend, it can be tomorrow and then 1 on sat and one on sunday. So, I figure, instead of rushing into one now and not truly enoying it *as I still have my prebed meal left and bed is 2 hours away, think it over and have a good one tomorrow nught. I;ll prob do a box of bars or stone cold creamery......His analogy sounds pretty serious" During this cheat meal, your heart rate should increasem you should sweat, you should shake, and ou should feel ur body changing....#1 because you have an eating disorder and #2 because your metoblism is on fire....then you should look bloated and blured but look even better in the morning" I am in! Gomee some ideas boys. He also changed my diet, here's what I got. Dont ask for macros as he said I am not allowed to question the diet nor add it up......sorry.

730 OATS 1 CUP
TB OF PB 2
EGG WHITES 9
EGGS 3


10 OATS 1 CUP
CHX 6 OZ
PINEAPPLE 1 CUP



1230-130 CHIKEN 60Z
YAM 10 OZ




300-330 CASEIN 2 SCOOPS
PB 2TB



5:30 TRAIN

7:30:00 CREAMERY RICE 3 SERV
WHEY 2.5 SCOOPS


800-8:30 GATORADE 3 TB
VANILLA
VANIALL BLEND 50

930 BROWN RICE 3 SERV
6OZ ROGUHY
ASPARAGUS 8

PREBED FLANK 8OZ
WHITES 4
 
JKurz1 said:
cant find anyone to cheat with...no fun solo...so I might do it tonight before bed....any good ideas?
Click to expand...
I thought I'd accidentally clicked on Elite Between the Sheets for a second...

You're defeating the purpose of these cheat meals by obsessing about them.
 
If you're going to do this updates thing, start/unlock an actual journal. And don't start pouting every time one of the few people who still think it's worth their time to try to help you says something you don't want to hear.
 
give up. This is a 5-page slow-motion car wreck.

He even knows better than his trainer. jkurz why don't you fire the poor guy? You have a nutritionist and you're ignoring his diet advice! And making him work for free! That AIN'T RIGHT, give him up and let him work with people who can use him. Does he even know you're on AS so he can modify his recommendations?

It's one thing for a newbie not to know what to do, it's another to say "this is right but" and then argue for and do the wrong. Dieting while on gear... rightHow's he gonna make progress on gear while dieting?

You guys want to save 'em all but he keeps jumping back in!

The next steps are synthol, surgery and implants.
 
JK....eat whatever you like or have a craving for. I eat a cheat meal several times a day, lol, so I'm not the best to ask......but don't make a box of bars, too close to supplements/health food.....go out for some Mexican or Chinese or Italian, maybe a pizza, and some dessert.
 
JKurz1 said:
CANT TELL IF THIS WAS SERIOUS OR ANOTHER SLAM...SOUNDS LIKE you are for real, and I realize that...it is extremely importatnt....just need some guidance.....
Click to expand...

I have always been for real and I have always been interested in helping you and trying to do so. When I see someone wrecking themselves, asking for help and finding convenient mental mechanations to avoid it or rationalize otherwise and continue in folly it just fucking kills me and I'd rather not look at it. Sort of like watching a long-time alcoholic fall off the 3 day wagon and being forced to listen to his rationalization of why a drink will do him good and then see him suck it down repeatedly in slow motion again and again.

It is extremely important that you do the cheat meals - don't listen to anyone who says otherwise. You have an eating disorder and your mental/internal dialoge plays games with you convincing you to do or not to do things i.e. the world trade center movie, oh no not today only 1 meal left before bed. You haven't done a single cheat meal yet - NOT ONE and all you have are reasons and excuses for not doing it. Fuck the weight training, fuck the diet, fuck all the damn advice in the world - do one thing - just eat as planned and do not listen to the voice in your head or play rationalization games. If you are going to rationalize anything it had better be in the direction of more cheating or more food - never less.

I honestly think you should go out right now and eat, I don't care if bedtime is in 10 minutes or 2 hours ago. Go buy 2 double quarter pounders, a large chocolate shake and suck them down. Get the damn cheat meal in, do not cave for an excuse, they will be unending and every single time you cave it gets stronger.

What I am saying is that you do not realize it but your mind is running you, you are not running your mind. You mind is convincing you of your desire but really the mind is artificial and made by fear, habit and anxiety. You are alseep in the car while your retarded GPS is taking you to a cliff, you see the 'Road Closed' and Danger Ahead signs but you keep buying into it's excuses that it's only a shortcut and you'll be back on the main road anytime. You will do anything to fool yourself and the only way out is to just do it. Wake up, grab the wheel, stop the car, get in the driver's seat and get back on the road. No matter how much rationalization and mental bullshit follows, just do it. Write down your cheat meals and make absolutely sure you get them - do whatever it takes but do not just sit there sleeping while you allow yourself to be driven off a cliff.

Note the pattern - zero cheat meals and all excuses. Stop it now, can you not see it's a trap. No matter what you mind says, go and eat. No matter what comes up, go and eat. No matter how you feel afterward, go and eat again when it's time. Do not fall for the mind's bullshit and get involved with your internal dialoge no less let it run you. Wake up.
 
Shit, I've gone out to eat by myself for a cheat meal. Who cares. Pick a seat at the bar (or a table), watch the game and order whatever the hell you want. 24 oz. porterhouse, side of ribs and a baked potato. Then on your way back stop by a local diner and order a big stack of pancakes and an omelette with whole eggs and cheese. Go home, relax and raid the fridge again in a few hours. You don't have to do this with anyone but yourself. Join a book club if you want company. Good luck again.
 
Island Son said:
give up. This is a 5-page slow-motion car wreck.

He even knows better than his trainer. jkurz why don't you fire the poor guy? You have a nutritionist and you're ignoring his diet advice! And making him work for free! That AIN'T RIGHT, give him up and let him work with people who can use him. Does he even know you're on AS so he can modify his recommendations?

It's one thing for a newbie not to know what to do, it's another to say "this is right but" and then argue for and do the wrong. Dieting while on gear... rightHow's he gonna make progress on gear while dieting?

You guys want to save 'em all but he keeps jumping back in!

The next steps are synthol, surgery and implants.
Click to expand...
FUCK OFF...HONESTLY....YOU are the only one I can't stand and still slams me even though I have made great strides in my eyes (and in a few others) I am sticking to the diet to a friggn tee...it aint easy going from 2000 cals to 5000 cals, but I am managing. The only thing I have neglected is the cheat meals........they will come....settle yourself


bigt - you are a great bro...youve help me in a million ways. I wil get it down, just need to muster up a good craving...its amazing when you are strict for so long, nothing really is craving...I do have a monster sgar tooth...so thos choc chip rice cakes have been incred. I'll do ia gre blizzards, some reeces, something good....I'd love to kick back with even a huge huge bowl of oats, a few candy bars, some melted in my oats and a jar of pb....I jus dont want too much damage, but I'll get er done. Trust me...

as for the gear, it has helped already...keep in mind its a tiny tiny dose, but its helping me mentally if othing else...plus it allows me to eat more and utilize more or all the cals for muscle building!!!


If I could just beat this swollen pelvic region/bloatedness, I'd be money///tat makes it hard to eat and eat a ton. It just feels like Im sitting on a balllon...dig enzymes arent helping too much. I need to ditch the sf syrups. Today I cut em in half, and I still feel it....back pressure and stomach pressiure. Tomorrow I'll cut in half again and then Ill nix it completely!
 
Dedication doesn't end in the gym. The entire battery of people you've put your trust in have given you the same advice. You don't wait for the craving, it doesn't work that way. It's more like boot camp. You've got accomplish X amount in a given period of time no matter what . If you can't make the commitment to follow through you're just kidding yourself about the rest of it.
Time to make peace with your maker and yell Geronimo on the way out.
 
Well, JK, what did you eat tonight?? I know the feeling with killed cravings....usually after 2 weeks of dieting cravings are gone, I can't imagine 3 years.....it'll all come back though, man.
 
open phone book, find 'pizza' section, order large meat lovers with extra sauce and devour while watching spike TV. Follow with a pint of ice cream and some brownies. Enjoy the Bench Bloat the next day as you put up an extra 10lbs because of all the water you're holding.
 
p.s. if you're not cooking those oats you eat, that's why your belly feels like you're 6 months pregnant. Cook them down as much as possible to minimise oat bloat
 
JKurz1 said:
I wil get it down, just need to muster up a good craving
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I'm talking about above. Food is an insidious mental addiction because we absolutely must eat frequently so it cannot be cut out of our lives or removed. It's like a heroine addict waiting for a good day to check into rehab. Today is a good day, right now. It doesn't need to be perfect or some odd alignment of the stars, it needs to be done and the only thing preventing it is you.

JKurz1 said:
I jus dont want too much damage, but I'll get er done. Trust me...
Click to expand...

You are 0 for 6 with a long term track record that blows ass, you tend not to see clearly, find excuses or alternatives, and dismiss what you don't want to hear - this is classic addiction with flashing neon signs. Where would you put your money? Despite the fact that any sane betting man would put his cash against you, everyone here and on the planet wants you to win. You must turn and fight, do not run, do not settle for a little bit of progress and then backslide as you lower your guard over time. You must not stay down. You may take some shots and get knocked down but you must always get up and fight again - hitting it back with fury twice as hard.

Wake up. It not just a victory for you or just a food thing - this is the human condition in one form or another for everyone. Everyone has tied themselves up with their mind and has to fight a battle to break free or even catch a moment of clarity to see the situation (it is not an accident that near death experience changes people), most will fail or realize it too late. When you win, it's a victory for everyone. You don't like it when Island Son or Anthrax Invastion/Tom T talk shit to you? Well they are right until you prove them wrong and they want you to win too, they just don't believe you will. But I do, I think you will win and you are ready.

You posted this stuff here for a reason. You wanted help - you are seeing what is going on. You are your only obstacle to winning. You can start winning right now, go eat your cheat meal. Victory is in the moment, it is here and now. It is not later or tomorrow or when it won't "do too much damage" or when it's too close to bed time or when you have a craving. This is the battle and those are the tactics thrown out by your enemy and they will only keep you down while getting you to delay and push it off. You have to make your stand in the moment. There is no tomorrow or 'later' or 'better time'. It is now, you must make your stand in the now and act deliberately in the present without attachment or weakness or mental mechanations. Real simple, wake up now and be a fighter or continue sleeping while someone else is driving in a direction that is pure folly, there is no half way or baby steps or good enough. Every ounce of your being will have to turn and fight with everything you have. When you knock it down some, you must not let up or lower your guard. Wake up and fight. My sincerest wishes with you.
 
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