Gonna try and revamp old school. Advice?

[burnthiscorpse]

Ok right now I am doing a split like this:

Monday : Chest(along with military BB)
*flat db press
*low incline smith BB (use smith cause it doesnt hurt my shoulders)
* seated dip machine (tri insertion tendonitis keeps me off real dips)
* military BB


Tuesday : off

Wednesday: Back (deads on this day)
* deads
* bent over BB rows
* close/reverse grip pulldowns (soon as I reach body weight with them I will do reverse grip chins)
* not been doing good mornings cause deads have been frying lower back

Thursday : off

Friday : Bi's tri's
*45 minutes of supersets back and forth

Saturday : Legs
Just leg sled for now, I cannot squat again yet (had meniscus surgery in june) will be back to squat asap.

Sunday : either off or start day one over again.

It works ok for me. But I think I wanna try an oldschool approach. Since I cant squat yet I dont want to get into the 5x5 yet. But I will list a bunch of shit below to pick from and maybe some of you hardcore guys can give me some suggestions on what to do what days ect....

Flat DB press
Incline press
Decline BB
Pullovers
Seated dip machine
Military DB/BB

Deadlifts
Rack pulls (from knee)
Bent over BB rows
Chins/close grip pull downs (reverse grip)
good mornings
high pulls

leg press
squats

any other suggestions?

 

[burnthiscorpse]

I should also mention that as long as my blood work (namely liver) comes back ok tomorrow I will be starting the second blast of this cycle probably in a week or two.
wk 1-8 sustanon 250mg EOD
wk 1-8 NPP 100mg EOD (or deca)
wk 1-4 or 5, 50mg anadrol ED

 

[ExtraMile]

flat db press, pullovers, deadlifts, reverse grip chins, leg press and squats are my favourites of the ones you listed!

for legs it looks kinda empty, now Im not sure what meniscus surgery is, but have you tryed/considered RDL, GHR or leg curls for hammies/glutes? And how bad are front squats, leg extensions, step ups and walking db lunges? Do they hurt too?

 

[burnthiscorpse]

flat db press, pullovers, deadlifts, reverse grip chins, leg press and squats are my favourites of the ones you listed!

for legs it looks kinda empty, now Im not sure what meniscus surgery is, but have you tryed/considered RDL, GHR or leg curls for hammies/glutes? And how bad are front squats, leg extensions, step ups and walking db lunges? Do they hurt too?

A torn meniscus to be exact. The meniscus' are the cartiledge plates that sit between your tibia and femur so they dont move bone on bone. They are like little donuts and when you tear one they have to go in and cut out or repair the torn piece. In my case it was a fucking huge piece so they had to cut it out. I also have a torn medial meniscus AND a totally torn ACL in my left knee. However because my legs are the way they are developement wise (quads are 28" cold) it protects my knee. Plus from the mouth of my ortho "you are one of the few people whos knee function doesnt 99% revolve around the acl. So i can squat, press, ect...whatever I want. If I need to be athletic then I wear a don joy brace like you see NFL guys wear.
Squats, stiff legs, or ham curls, along with extensions and leg sled would make up a normal day for me if I were totally healed.
Legs arent my issue though per-say. I more or less wanted to throw in the old school movements for upper body that I dont currently do.
As far as pullovers I am about to go do chest and plan on doing them. Honestly I have never done them in my life ever. I am using the smith for deads currently cause it takes the stress off my patellar tendon for now. Leg strength isnt the issue. When I injured my leg it was a traumatic injury so my quad lost alot of strength. So while I try to build it back up, the patella (knee cap) tendon and the quad tendon are taking the brunt of the load. thats why I cant go heavy yet. The knee joint itself can handle it.

 

[the.gladiator1987]

Damn bro thats about the same cycle im doin! keep a log for sure. what do you mean by old school approach? like whole body 3x a week? like HST?

how do you like having an arm day by itself? im at a stubborn 16.5". Anyway gl with whatever you do brotha

 

[bblazer]

OK, here's my $0.02.

Machines are for rehab. With your knee, now you get to use them. Specifically, I like your upper body work out although, I would want to see some more volume in the DL to compensate for a lack of squatting.

As for the legs and machines, here is what I would do.

1) Seated leg extensions. Using 4 sets, work up to a 10RM, then take a 4 min break. Then come back and do 2 sets of 60% of your 10RM for as many reps as you can get in 30 seconds. Take 3 min in between each set for a rest.

2) Do the same for leg curls. If possible, get on a standing leg curl machine.

B-

 

[timtim]

are you bbing or power training? i dont reps or tempo listed so thats why i ask.

 

[burnthiscorpse]

To try and answer all your questions.
Gladiator, yeah kinda the whole body 3 x wk once I can squat. I like the arm day by itself but due to the tri insertion tendonitis i cant brutalize my tri's like i would like to. I do alot of sets of press downs with lighter weights and higher reps. To be honest I hate working bi's. Thats why i figured I would try something old school without arm movements but the heavy compound lifts that trigger growth everywhere. I am hoping to get to 300 lbs by the end of febuary. Then attempt to cut to 7%

bblazer, I really dont like machines except for things like ham curls and leg extensions. Like I said Its not the knee itself right now or the quad. Its the tendons having to re-acclimate to heavy work. I just started deadlifts last month. Just in the last two weeks the weight has been climbing alot. I wouldnt have a problem doing them on leg day also but at this point after doing them on back day I'm still sore in the glutes and hams when back day comes. I am going to try and squat this friday. Or at least hack or machine squat if I cant pull off "real" ones. I'm starting leg extensions and ham curls this week too. Standing ham curls are actually my preference.

timtim , I'm going for size so body building purposes. Rep wise, i'm in the 8-12 range. 15-20 for warm up sets. moderate rep speed.

 

[the.gladiator1987]

Ok, well your lifts seem great to me. I would do it and see what works, and see how far you can push yourself for squats. I agree, dont use machines unless you have to. what about GHR's for the hammys? I would do the heavy compund movements but at a light enough weight for you to get back in it. No machines

 

[timtim]

To try and answer all your questions.
Gladiator, yeah kinda the whole body 3 x wk once I can squat. I like the arm day by itself but due to the tri insertion tendonitis i cant brutalize my tri's like i would like to. I do alot of sets of press downs with lighter weights and higher reps. To be honest I hate working bi's. Thats why i figured I would try something old school without arm movements but the heavy compound lifts that trigger growth everywhere. I am hoping to get to 300 lbs by the end of febuary. Then attempt to cut to 7%

bblazer, I really dont like machines except for things like ham curls and leg extensions. Like I said Its not the knee itself right now or the quad. Its the tendons having to re-acclimate to heavy work. I just started deadlifts last month. Just in the last two weeks the weight has been climbing alot. I wouldnt have a problem doing them on leg day also but at this point after doing them on back day I'm still sore in the glutes and hams when back day comes. I am going to try and squat this friday. Or at least hack or machine squat if I cant pull off "real" ones. I'm starting leg extensions and ham curls this week too. Standing ham curls are actually my preference.

timtim , I'm going for size so body building purposes. Rep wise, i'm in the 8-12 range. 15-20 for warm up sets. moderate rep speed.

if youre going for size i would change a few things personally. youre looking for hyperthropic workouts. you could definately train differently and get more out of your sessions. thats just my opinion.

 

[burnthiscorpse]

Squats are gonna take some time for sure to get the weight back up there. I think for now I will keep it as is til I can get a meaningful squat going on. Then I will make leg day friday with deads, squats, leg ext. ham curls. maybe leg press if time permits.

Here's some questions though...Deads....if i do them on back day and leg day, which day should be lighter weight/high rep, and which day should be balls to the wall with lower reps?

question 2, keeping the above split at the top of my origional post.....if I were to throw in some of the old school stuff i'm not doing now, which days would be best to throw what in? Obviously something like high pulls would go on back day. I assume ofcourse any sort of cleans should be on chest day. I would like to have the big movements make my arms grow and get away from an actual "bi/tri" day. Especially with the tri insertion tendonitis issue. When I do heavy chest, like this evening I hit it pretty hard. Came home and iced elbows. But it would be nice not to have to do direct tri work til next chest day so I can recover fully from tonight. I have been doing ok mind you. Just saying.

 

[burnthiscorpse]

if youre going for size i would change a few things personally. youre looking for hyperthropic workouts. you could definately train differently and get more out of your sessions. thats just my opinion.

Dont be shy bro, pony up the suggestions

 

[timtim]

Dont be shy bro, pony up the suggestions

i would go with an arnold approach and up the volume, break down the muscle groups into smaller areas, and target growth.

an example would be for shoulders:
db or bb presses - 3 to 4 sets, 8 to 15 rep sets, 4-2-4-2 tempo
bent over flies - same as above
lateral raises - same as above
this is what i would consider a bbing style workout. 3 heads are targeted, time under tension is longer, rest periods 60 to 90 seconds.done in 40 minutes or so.

i would treat all bodyparts similar and really work all angles. i also love to split hams and quads and do them on seperate days. if you want more info, please let me know. you might not be into the volume workouts but if you want to shape and really fine tune weak and strong areas, i would be recommending this style over others. you already have the large base size. i would be focusing on really bringing them out now. just an opinion.

 

[SaiBoT]

i would go with an arnold approach and up the volume, break down the muscle groups into smaller areas, and target growth.

an example would be for shoulders:
db or bb presses - 3 to 4 sets, 8 to 15 rep sets, 4-2-4-2 tempo
bent over flies - same as above
lateral raises - same as above
this is what i would consider a bbing style workout. 3 heads are targeted, time under tension is longer, rest periods 60 to 90 seconds.done in 40 minutes or so.

i would treat all bodyparts similar and really work all angles. i also love to split hams and quads and do them on seperate days. if you want more info, please let me know. you might not be into the volume workouts but if you want to shape and really fine tune weak and strong areas, i would be recommending this style over others. you already have the large base size. i would be focusing on really bringing them out now. just an opinion.

+1

With that size i wouldn't go with an old school aproach either. Imho you need to start working on the details, something like FST-7 just crossed my mind.

 

[burnthiscorpse]

+1

With that size i wouldn't go with an old school aproach either. Imho you need to start working on the details, something like FST-7 just crossed my mind.

The wanting to do oldschool is because I would like to get more size

 

[burnthiscorpse]

also on a side note, the fore mentioned cycle will NOT be happening. I have to get my kidneys out of the red zone first. Just talked to doc. creatinine(CKD) range is 0.6-1.5 mine is 1.7 . Its not from AAS its from all the goddamn celebrex i was taking last 6 weeks. Plus being a shit bag last month and drinking next to no water and way too many shakes. Awsome huh!! I just cleaned my shit up last week to cause I knew i was fucking up.

 

[Captain FT]

Time to bust out Arnolds Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding

Hmm...my wife moved it, I'll be back for this one, I have to find it.

 

[Captain FT]

Found the book.

Alright, the Level 1 Basic program is as follows

Monday
Chest
Back

Tuesday
Shoulders
Upper arms
Forearms

Wednesday
Thighs
Calves
Lower back

Thursday
Chest
Back

Friday
Shoulders
Upper arms
Forearms

Saturday
Thighs
Calves
Lower back

Abdominal work every day

Workout 1
Monday and Thursday

Chest
Bench Press
Incline Press
Pullovers

Back
Chin-ups
Bent-over rows

Power Training
Deadlift, 3 sets of 10, 6, 4 reps to failure

Abs
Crunches, 5 sets of 25 reps

Workout 2
Tuesday and Friday

Shoulders
Barbell Clean and Press
Dumbbell Lateral Raises

Power Training
Heavy Upright Rows, 3 sets of 10, 6, 4 reps to failure
Push Presses, 3 sets of 6, 4, 2 reps to failure

Upper Arms
Standing Barbell Curls
Seated Dumbbell Curls
Close-Grip Press
Standing Tricep Extensions with Barbell

Forearms
Wrist Curls
Reverse Wrist Curls

Abs
Reverse Crunches, 5 sets of 25 reps

Workout 3
Wednesday and Saturday

Thighs
Squats
Lunges
Leg Curls

Calves
Standing Calf Raises, 5 sets of 15 reps each

Lower Back

Power Training
Straight-Leg Deadlift, 3 sets of 10, 6, 4 reps to failure
Good Mornings, 3 sets of 10, 6, 4 reps to failure

Abs
Crunches, 5 sets of 25 reps


Usually all exercises are 5 sets, 1 set warm up of 15 reps and then 10, 8, 6, 4 repetitions respectively.

That's back to basics.

 

[SaiBoT]

The wanting to do oldschool is because I would like to get more size

you still can with bodybuilding routine...

As long as you don't hurt yourself again with near limit weights...

 

[timtim]

charles glass gets the best out of his clients using hypertrophic bbing routines. all time under tension and hitting angles. he is my trainer of choice if i had to use 1.

 

[SaiBoT]

charles glass gets the best out of his clients using hypertrophic bbing routines. all time under tension and hitting angles. he is my trainer of choice if i had to use 1.

Mine too! The stuff he comes up with it's just way ahead of time!

 

[timtim]

Mine too! The stuff he comes up with it's just way ahead of time!

i saw a couple of videos with him just dissecting physiques and talking about dead spots that needed filling in. one was with chris cormier who was aesthetically one of the greatest ever and glass was talking about dead spots throughout his upper and middle back. the guys a genius. he knows how to train people who are already built enough. once you reach a certain size, its time to even it out and chisel it up. i wouldnt use his theories on a beginner or intermediate level trainer, but on more massive, experienced trainers, he is the path.

 

[burnthiscorpse]

Found the book.

Alright, the Level 1 Basic program is as follows

Monday
Chest
Back

Tuesday
Shoulders
Upper arms
Forearms

Wednesday
Thighs
Calves
Lower back

Thursday
Chest
Back

Friday
Shoulders
Upper arms
Forearms

Saturday
Thighs
Calves
Lower back

Abdominal work every day

Workout 1
Monday and Thursday

Chest
Bench Press
Incline Press
Pullovers

Back
Chin-ups
Bent-over rows

Power Training
Deadlift, 3 sets of 10, 6, 4 reps to failure

Abs
Crunches, 5 sets of 25 reps

Workout 2
Tuesday and Friday

Shoulders
Barbell Clean and Press
Dumbbell Lateral Raises

Power Training
Heavy Upright Rows, 3 sets of 10, 6, 4 reps to failure
Push Presses, 3 sets of 6, 4, 2 reps to failure

Upper Arms
Standing Barbell Curls
Seated Dumbbell Curls
Close-Grip Press
Standing Tricep Extensions with Barbell

Forearms
Wrist Curls
Reverse Wrist Curls

Abs
Reverse Crunches, 5 sets of 25 reps

Workout 3
Wednesday and Saturday

Thighs
Squats
Lunges
Leg Curls

Calves
Standing Calf Raises, 5 sets of 15 reps each

Lower Back

Power Training
Straight-Leg Deadlift, 3 sets of 10, 6, 4 reps to failure
Good Mornings, 3 sets of 10, 6, 4 reps to failure

Abs
Crunches, 5 sets of 25 reps


Usually all exercises are 5 sets, 1 set warm up of 15 reps and then 10, 8, 6, 4 repetitions respectively.

That's back to basics.

Thats insanity brother lol. There is no way I could train 6 days a week. Even with AAS. Alot of the stuff in there I cant or wouldnt do. Because of tri insertion tendonitis I cant do any skull crushers, over head extensions. Press downs need to be light weight and high rep. Close grip bench press are a no-no too. unless they are reverse grip. I also never do abs. I just dont see the point. They get stressed with almost everything you do. If i were 7-9 % I would probably do them. I never do calves either. Call me crazy but I have big calves and once you get into huge calves such as the way pro BBr's look I'm not really a fan of thet look. Plus I just despise working calves.
I actually tried to have a light arm day today and found I wasnt recovered from going super heavy on tuesday and thursday (chest and back) But I also noticed my arms were fuller before I even went to the gym. So I definatley am dropping arm day in favor of more of a "powerlifting" sort of program. But not "really" powerlifting if ya get my meaning.
I am thinking 3 big days a weel m/w/f. until I want to puke each day. With reverse grip flat bench thrown in for tri's and DB curls for bi's.

 

[burnthiscorpse]

I did attempt to squat today though also. I did a few sets of leg press to warm up and tried to squat. most I got was 225 for 4. Its pretty pathetic but its not bad for the first time in about 4 months and post surgery. Quad was fine but the patella tendon kept me from going heavier.

 

[SaiBoT]

i saw a couple of videos with him just dissecting physiques and talking about dead spots that needed filling in. one was with chris cormier who was aesthetically one of the greatest ever and glass was talking about dead spots throughout his upper and middle back. the guys a genius. he knows how to train people who are already built enough. once you reach a certain size, its time to even it out and chisel it up. i wouldnt use his theories on a beginner or intermediate level trainer, but on more massive, experienced trainers, he is the path.

What about the work he did with Silvio Samuel? I know about Silvio back when he was living in Spain, he always had a great body (spanish fans called him La Bestia) but his mid section always looked kinda swole... do you know how Charles managed to shrink Silvio's waist? I heard of breathing techniques, maybe ab vacuum... but do you know any facts about it?

@ burnthiscorpse 225lbs after those many months isn't bad. Good luck.

 

[timtim]

What about the work he did with Silvio Samuel? I know about Silvio back when he was living in Spain, he always had a great body (spanish fans called him La Bestia) but his mid section always looked kinda swole... do you know how Charles managed to shrink Silvio's waist? I heard of breathing techniques, maybe ab vacuum... but do you know any facts about it?

@ burnthiscorpse 225lbs after those many months isn't bad. Good luck.

i only know they worked together from what ive read. i dont know the specifics.

 

[Captain FT]

Thats insanity brother lol. There is no way I could train 6 days a week. Even with AAS. Alot of the stuff in there I cant or wouldnt do. Because of tri insertion tendonitis I cant do any skull crushers, over head extensions. Press downs need to be light weight and high rep. Close grip bench press are a no-no too. unless they are reverse grip. I also never do abs. I just dont see the point. They get stressed with almost everything you do. If i were 7-9 % I would probably do them. I never do calves either. Call me crazy but I have big calves and once you get into huge calves such as the way pro BBr's look I'm not really a fan of thet look. Plus I just despise working calves.
I actually tried to have a light arm day today and found I wasnt recovered from going super heavy on tuesday and thursday (chest and back) But I also noticed my arms were fuller before I even went to the gym. So I definatley am dropping arm day in favor of more of a "powerlifting" sort of program. But not "really" powerlifting if ya get my meaning.
I am thinking 3 big days a weel m/w/f. until I want to puke each day. With reverse grip flat bench thrown in for tri's and DB curls for bi's.

I know, and that's Arnold's recommended beginner, Level 1 workout... INSANE!

No wonder he got so big off d-bol only cycles back in the day. His advanced workout is Chest/Back in the morning Legs in the afternoon in one day. you end up hitting every body part 3 times a week. I'm starting to think as time went on after Arnold's era, the bodybuilders got lazier and the drugs got stronger which is how they got so big today. I don't think any bodybuilder would follow Arnold's advanced work out.

If the Advanced routine is what Arnold really followed, I think the hard work paid dividends more than the d-bol.

 

[burnthiscorpse]

^^^ arnolds genetics didnt hurt much either.

back when I was 21 and on my first cycle I used to hit everything 3 times a week.

mon/wed/fri: chest/back/bi/calves/abs

tues/thurs/sat: shoulders/tris/legs/calves/abs

Fuck that bullshit. I could never do that now. Or at least do it and keep it heavy. I would certainly get injured.
I have decided that I am dropping arm movements. I will throw in close/reverse grip BB flat bench on chest day to touch on tri's. And a few sets of db curls on back day if needed. I am finally really liking the compound movements that I hated when i was younger. as stated earlier, fuck calves and abs.

 

[Captain FT]

^^^ arnolds genetics didnt hurt much either.

back when I was 21 and on my first cycle I used to hit everything 3 times a week.

mon/wed/fri: chest/back/bi/calves/abs

tues/thurs/sat: shoulders/tris/legs/calves/abs

Fuck that bullshit. I could never do that now. Or at least do it and keep it heavy. I would certainly get injured.
I have decided that I am dropping arm movements. I will throw in close/reverse grip BB flat bench on chest day to touch on tri's. And a few sets of db curls on back day if needed. I am finally really liking the compound movements that I hated when i was younger. as stated earlier, fuck calves and abs.

Haha, yeah when i was younger I use to never do legs and now I love squats (when my knee's don't hurt) and legs have bencome one of my best attributes. Also playing ice hockey from age 5 thru college didn't hurt them much, but I never did squats.

I plan on buying some Adidas Iron Works shoes for squatting, but I'm holding off so my wife doesn't kill me. One of those purchases where I have to wait until its my birthday or something. She's like "$180 for shoes you're only going to squat in...whats wrong with your New Balance shoes". I didn't feel like explaining .