GH experts, need opinion on dosing times

[DrJMW]

HGH induces insulin resistance. Adding insulin only worsens the problem. It is better to approach this problem with diet: keeping fat low and carbs clean. I have tried using metformin (glucophage) and avandia to counteract the HGH-induced resistance, but neither worked. the diet modification worked every time. Very advanced athletes with years of experience use insulin with HGH and other pharmaceuticals, for their pancreases cannot produce enough insulin as it is. Joe Average bodybuilder does not and should not add insulin. JMHO.

As far as sub-Q injections, do not pinch the thigh. Make the injection spot taut and inject. For some this will be part sub-q and part IM, but it is an excellent injection anyway. Do not attempt to create a "bubble." You will see better all-around results injecting, as I described, into the anterior mid-thigh.

I do not know if ZIP will be adequate to counteract HGH-induced hypothyroidism. Why take chances? Have your wife use one 15mcg tab of T3 daily before breakfast. There is no harm and the dose will be adequate to keep the thyroid optimized. oxandrin is not necessary for a fat burning cycle with HGH and T3, but if it is available, I would use low dose (10mg daily).

As far as higher doses: this is a tough one. You can tell your doc that you aren't feeling any benefits from the lower dose. If the doc is satisfied with GH function via blood testing, then there is nothing you can do.

 

[shortstack]

thank you doc.

 

[GenSci26]

How long can one safely run T3 at that dose along with the gh?? Thanks

 

[DrJMW]

Studies have shown that T3 can be run as long as necessary without fear of permanent shutdown. These studies have been posted on the EF Board by various members. T3 should only be run (assuming a normal, healthy thyroid) ONLY when running HGH. 25mcg for a female and 25-50mcg for a male is considered low-dose.

 

[majutsu]

This is good to know Dr.JMW. BTW I tried anterior mid thigh. Pros: I felt a stronger effect, more tingling in both legs, and a little euphoria for about 2 hours. Cons: It was partly IM/SQ so pressure had to be held a sec or two with a cotton ball etc as opposed to the belly SQ which required no needle withdrawal care. I used 3.6 u a day so after this AM shot I should have had 1u left (3.6Sun+3.6Mon+1.8Tue AM) but had 1.2U, so I underdosed some shots. Also, didn't feel like reconstituting, so I just went with 1.2U mid-day instead of 1.6U. Even if only 1U is left, I may keep doing that every third day, so a kit lasts 5 weeks instead of 4. So that would be 3.6U ed except every third day PM which is 1-1.2U. So I doubt that will make a big difference. I have really seen nothing yet, but I'll keep you posted. Over time, I may also slowly up dose to 4-5U ed and add T3 25 mcgs ed. Again, on top of 500ew test+400ew deca with 25ed dbol for right this sec (that's in and out). I have heard, Dr.J, that non-AR anabolics (presumably active through glucocorticoid receptors etc) like dbol and winny, are extra effective in stacks with growth. That's the anecdotal scoop, any truth to this synergy?

 

[GenSci26]

Thank you for clearing that up DrJmw

 

[DrJMW]

Orals do tend to boost IGF-1 more than injectables--along with exogenous HGH.

 

[NJextreme2]

Hey drjmw so your saying NOT to add isulin to your regiment while on GH?
I don't understand this as mnay guys I know who are top amatures use insulin when they awake and after they train, some only use it after they train like myself, but I am not on GH..I feel the insulin works very well post workout, great pumps, quicker recovery etc...

I am about to start GH at 4iu/ed 2 upon waking and 2iu post workout (1pm) stacked with T3, 1500mg test, 75mg/D Fina, 800mg Deca, 50 mg anadrol... ANy input on this? Especially on the insulin??

 

[DrJMW]

Hey drjmw so your saying NOT to add isulin to your regiment while on GH?
I don't understand this as many guys I know who are top amatures use insulin when they awake and after they train, some only use it after they train like myself, but I am not on GH..I feel the insulin works very well post workout, great pumps, quicker recovery etc...

THE TOP PROS ARE EXPERTS WITH INSULIN AND THEY HAVE SUPERVISION. ADDITIONAL INSULIN IS NEEDED WHEN THE ATHLETE HAS SO MUCH SIZE TO MAINTAIN AND HIS PANCREAS CANNOT PUT OUT ENOUGH INSULIN FOR THE SIZE OF HIS BODY. THIS IS MAYBE 1% OF THE BB'ING COMMUNITY. AS AN ASIDE, INSULIN IS THE MOST DANGEROUS OF THE MEDS USED BY THE BB'ING COMMUNITY. MANY TOP BB'ING EXPERTS THAT I HAVE CONSULTED WITH, AS WELL AS MYSELF, HAVE WITNESSED DEATHS BECAUSE OF IMPROPER INSULIN USE. EXOGENOUS INSULIN IS NOT NEEDED FOR THE PROPER FUNCTION OF EXOGENOUS HGH FOR JOE AVERAGE BB'ER.

POST-WORKOUT IS THE TIME WHEN THE BODY PUTS OUT THE MOST INSULIN. THAT IS THE TIME TO GET YOUR BCAA'S AND QUALITY CARBS IN. EXOGENOUS INSULIN IS REALLY NOT NEEDED. JOE AVERAGE BB'ER USING AAS DOESN'T NEED EXOGENOUS INSULIN EITHER. IF YOU CHOOSE TO USE INSULIN, JUST BE CAREFUL. HYPOGLYCEMIA LEADS TO INSULIN SHOCK AND THIS IS A MEDICAL EMERGENCY. ALWAYS HAVE A PROTEIN/CARB DRINK WITH YOU WHEN USING EXOGENOUS INSULIN.

I am about to start GH at 4iu/ed 2 upon waking and 2iu post workout (1pm) stacked with T3, 1500mg test, 75mg/D Fina, 800mg Deca, 50 mg anadrol... ANy input on this? Especially on the insulin??

YOU DO NOT NEED THE INSULIN. YOU WILL NEED DOSTINEX TO PREVENT PROLACTIN-RELATED GYNO FROM THE FINA, DECA, AND ANADROL. YOU WILL NEED AROMASIN OR ARIMIDEX TO OVERCOME ESTROGEN-REALTED GYNO FROM THE 1500MG'S OF TEST YOU WILL USE. TAKE 3IU GH MIDMORNING, AND 3IU MIDAFTERNOON. TAKE THE T3 (50MCG) FIRST THING IN THE AM BEFORE BREAKFAST. YOU WILL NEED HCG/NOLVADEX/CLOMID FOR YUR EIGHT-WEEK RECOVERY CYCLE. USE INSULIN AT YOUR OWN RISK.

 

[NJextreme2]

Thanks for the info Dr. I appriciate it...

I have never had a problem with water retention or Gyno from as high as 1200mg test/week, thank god...I always keep Proviron and Nolvadex on hand. Would you mind if I pm'd you for a few more questions bro? Let me know, anyway thanks for the help.