Front Loading

[wzkid]

Who has front-loaded enanthate with prop? If you have, then when did you start the enanthate? 1wk before the last prop shot or what?

Was thinking about this for my next cycle.

wk 1-2 prop 50mgED
wk 1-9 ace 50mgED
wk 2-14 enanthate 250mg bi-weekly
wk 8-16 winny 50mgED

Any thoughts?

 

[jjmac]

Enanthate takes 3-5 weeks average to kick in, so start it first or a week before if anything.

This is what I would do if I wanted a kick start with the test : Enth wk 1-14
Prop wk 1-4

The rest looks good to me.

 

[Brewers17]

Enanthate takes 3-5 weeks average to kick in, so start it first or a week before if anything.

This is what I would do if I wanted a kick start with the test : testosterone enanthate wk 1-14
testosterone propionate wk 1-4

The rest looks good to me.

good advice ^

 

[needtogetaas]

Enanthate takes 3-5 weeks average to kick in, so start it first or a week before if anything.

This is what I would do if I wanted a kick start with the test : testosterone enanthate wk 1-14
testosterone propionate wk 1-4

The rest looks good to me.

nice

 

[advanced-stealth]

Good advice bro.

Enanthate takes 3-5 weeks average to kick in, so start it first or a week before if anything.

This is what I would do if I wanted a kick start with the test : testosterone enanthate wk 1-14
testosterone propionate wk 1-4

The rest looks good to me.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Enanthate takes 3-5 weeks average to kick in, so start it first or a week before if anything.

This is what I would do if I wanted a kick start with the test : testosterone enanthate wk 1-14
testosterone propionate wk 1-4

The rest looks good to me.

Testosterone enanthate will increase circulating testosterone levels twofold within a few hours.

 

[nydj66]

I have tried front-loading long esters like test-e and decanoate and never seen a difference in the results over just starting with a dosage and sticking with it.

 

[Mrpumped]

What's the ace you're using, Tren?

 

[Nelson Montana]

I have tried front-loading long esters like test-e and decanoate and never seen a difference in the results over just starting with a dosage and sticking with it.

Exactly. That's because there isn't any.

I'm astounded that the myth of short and long acting esters still exist. No matter what, the body needs time to start building muscle. But the esters are active form day one!!! For some reason, a lot of people don't want to accept what is fact. They have a notion in mind and there are enough people will a similar misconception so they don;t have to change their way of thinking.

Does anyone see a big difference a week after using propp but not enth?

I doubt it. At least dboll will increase blood volume quickly so you'll see some fullness quickly but that's not necessarily muscle growth.

Then again, I always noticed a difference within 10 days or so of taking most anything, yet there are those who claim it takes over a month for a compound to work... which is ridiculous. Steroids for the most part are very fast acting drugs.

Prop hits a little harder a little faster, but again, the body can only build so much muscle so fast. If propp built muscle faster than other drugs then why don't we all use nothing but propp all the time?!

Propp LEAVES the system faster than enth. That doesn't mean enth takes longer to enter the bloodstream!

Please re-read that last line.

There are certain advantages to propp -- the most significant being it's a strong androgen that doesn't cause much water retention. It's also undetectable in about 3 days. But it does not begin building muscle quicker or more effectively than longer acting esters. In fact, I always found propp to be more trouble than its worth. If you like it, that's great. But if we're to be the arbitors of reliable steroid information it's time to get the facts straight and not promote myth and rumor.

 

[nydj66]

Exactly. That's because there isn't any.

I'm astounded that the myth of short and long acting esters still exist. No matter what, the body needs time to start building muscle. But the esters are active form day one!!! For some reason, a lot of people don't want to accept what is fact. They have a notion in mind and there are enough people will a similar misconception so they don;t have to change their way of thinking.

Does anyone see a big difference a week after using propp but not testosterone enanthate?

I doubt it. At least dboll will increase blood volume quickly so you'll see some fullness quickly but that's not necessarily muscle growth.

Then again, I always noticed a difference within 10 days or so of taking most anything, yet there are those who claim it takes over a month for a compound to work... which is ridiculous. Steroids for the most part are very fast acting drugs.

testosterone propionate hits a little harder a little faster, but again, the body can only build so much muscle so fast. If propp built muscle faster than other drugs then why don't we all use nothing but propp all the time?!

Propp LEAVES the system faster than testosterone enanthate. That doesn't mean testosterone enanthate takes longer to enter the bloodstream!

Please re-read that last line.

There are certain advantages to propp -- the most significant being it's a strong androgen that doesn't cause much water retention. It's also undetectable in about 3 days. But it does not begin building muscle quicker or more effectively than longer acting esters. In fact, I always found propp to be more trouble than its worth. If you like it, that's great. But if we're to be the arbitors of reliable steroid information it's time to get the facts straight and not promote myth and rumor.

I completely agree that enanthate and other long esters will get into your system very quickly but they will not reach the target dosage (entering your bloodstream) as quickly as short esters.

The difference may not be as significant as many people believe but there is still a difference. To say that prop leaves your system fatser than enanthate but that doesn't mean enanthate takes longer to enter the bloodstream, makes no sense mathematically. If enanthate leaves the system more slowly, it has to enter more slowly as well.

Remember that esterified gear is inert; it has to enter the bloodstream and react with esterase to remove the ester before it can activate any receptors. Once it's reduced to the base steroid it has roughly 30 minutes before it will pass through the liver and be deactivated.

 

[Nelson Montana]

To say that testosterone propionate leaves your system fatser than enanthate but that doesn't mean enanthate takes longer to enter the bloodstream, makes no sense mathematically. If enanthate leaves the system more slowly, it has to enter more slowly as well.

Not at all. That's what the ester is all about.

Drugs do not enter an leave at the same rate. Some drugs are effective in seconds, that doesn't mean its effect leaves just as quickly.

Propp is only active for approx 40 hours. Are you saying ALL testosterones are only active for that long but enth takes weeks for that period to come into effect?

 

[gyle]

Not at all. That's what the ester is all about.

Drugs do not enter an leave at the same rate. Some drugs are effective in seconds, that doesn't mean its effect leaves just as quickly.

I agree. I had a bad injury from a wrestling accident n' was put on pain meds. Over the whole time I took the pain meds., and some lasted much longer than others. Some 1 dose 4-6 hrs. n' some 1 dose almost 24 hrs., but they all kicked in around 30 min. after taking.

 

[Wulfgar]

I like frontloading
I feel that establishing the supraphysiological steroid plasma levels in the shortest possible time is essential to maximizing results from highly androgenic compounds such as testosterone.
To me it would depend on what daily theoretical plasma threshold you are trying to attain and maintain and for how long.
If you are taking test enan remember its active life is 8 days, so by day 4 half the drug is already released and working in your blood stream. obviously test E shots should be administered on even numbered days(preferably 4 or 2 depending on other compunds, cycle length and goals.
I personally prefer to load on Prop for 8 days in a downward spiraling dosage so that as more and more of the test E is released Im keeping my steroid plasma levels constant by quickly tapering off the faster acting ester.

good luck bro

 

[wzkid]

Good advice guys, thanks for the input

 

[nydj66]

Not at all. That's what the ester is all about.

Drugs do not enter an leave at the same rate. Some drugs are effective in seconds, that doesn't mean its effect leaves just as quickly.

Propp is only active for approx 40 hours. Are you saying ALL testosterones are only active for that long but testosterone enanthate takes weeks for that period to come into effect?

testosterone enanthate and testosterone propionate and all testosterone esters are inert. They cannot increase serum testosterone levels until esterase removes the ester which only happens in the bloodstream.

If you did a single injection of 100mg of test propionate (79mg of testosterone), it will somewhat gradually enter the bloodstream where esterase will do it's thing and leave free testosterone (which is the active drug in this case). Any particular molecule of free testosterone has a very short amount of time to provide any benefit because it will not survive a pass through the liver (which filters all your blood about every 30 minutes).

So the test prop is slowly entering your blood, being de-esterified and then destroyed by the liver. The serum level will peak, then gradually drop being somewhat back to normal after 40 hours when the 100mg you injected is gone.

If you inject a single shot of 114.5mg of test enanthate (the same 79mg of base testosterone) it will enter your bloodstream more slowly, the peak serum level will be lower than it was for test prop, and it will take longer for serum testosterone levels to return to normal. If you had a graph of serum testosterone level vs. time for both cases, the area under both curves would be identical because you injected 79mg of testerone in both cases and that's all you had to work with.

However, the 100mg of prop lead to a higher peak serum level (as stated) and it happened sooner than the peak did for enanthate.

For the same reason, if you start injecting 100mg/day of test prop, your bloodstream will start seeing 79mg/day of testosterone about a week sooner than if you start injecting 340mg of test enanthate E3D. All you have to do is put the relevant info into roid calculator and look at the resulting dosage level graph.

I'm not saying that test enanthate doesn't increase serum test levels almost immediately, I'm saying that it doesn't increase serum levels as quickly as test prop does. Since the effect of testosterone is dosage dependent, that has to make some difference.

 

[Nelson Montana]

testosterone enanthate and testosterone propionate and all testosterone esters are inert. They cannot increase serum testosterone levels until esterase removes the ester which only happens in the bloodstream.

If you did a single injection of 100mg of test propionate (79mg of testosterone), it will somewhat gradually enter the bloodstream where esterase will do it's thing and leave free testosterone (which is the active drug in this case). Any particular molecule of free testosterone has a very short amount of time to provide any benefit because it will not survive a pass through the liver (which filters all your blood about every 30 minutes).

So the test testosterone propionate is slowly entering your blood, being de-esterified and then destroyed by the liver. The serum level will peak, then gradually drop being somewhat back to normal after 40 hours when the 100mg you injected is gone.

If you inject a single shot of 114.5mg of test enanthate (the same 79mg of base testosterone) it will enter your bloodstream more slowly, the peak serum level will be lower than it was for test testosterone propionate, and it will take longer for serum testosterone levels to return to normal. If you had a graph of serum testosterone level vs. time for both cases, the area under both curves would be identical because you injected 79mg of testerone in both cases and that's all you had to work with.

However, the 100mg of testosterone propionate lead to a higher peak serum level (as stated) and it happened sooner than the peak did for enanthate.

For the same reason, if you start injecting 100mg/day of test testosterone propionate, your bloodstream will start seeing 79mg/day of testosterone about a week sooner than if you start injecting 340mg of test enanthate E3D. All you have to do is put the relevant info into roid calculator and look at the resulting dosage level graph.

I'm not saying that test enanthate doesn't increase serum test levels almost immediately, I'm saying that it doesn't increase serum levels as quickly as test testosterone propionate does. Since the effect of testosterone is dosage dependent, that has to make some difference.

A negledgable difference. And as you said yourself, you saw no dramatic difference from front loading prop as opposed to starting right in with enth.

 

[nydj66]

A negledgable difference. And as you said yourself, you saw no dramatic difference from front loading testosterone propionate as opposed to starting right in with testosterone enanthate.

Fair enough.

 

[enacer420nj]

Exactly. That's because there isn't any.

I'm astounded that the myth of short and long acting esters still exist. No matter what, the body needs time to start building muscle. But the esters are active form day one!!! For some reason, a lot of people don't want to accept what is fact. They have a notion in mind and there are enough people will a similar misconception so they don;t have to change their way of thinking.

Does anyone see a big difference a week after using propp but not testosterone enanthate?

I doubt it. At least dboll will increase blood volume quickly so you'll see some fullness quickly but that's not necessarily muscle growth.

Then again, I always noticed a difference within 10 days or so of taking most anything, yet there are those who claim it takes over a month for a compound to work... which is ridiculous. Steroids for the most part are very fast acting drugs.

testosterone propionate hits a little harder a little faster, but again, the body can only build so much muscle so fast. If propp built muscle faster than other drugs then why don't we all use nothing but propp all the time?!

Propp LEAVES the system faster than testosterone enanthate. That doesn't mean testosterone enanthate takes longer to enter the bloodstream!

Please re-read that last line.

There are certain advantages to propp -- the most significant being it's a strong androgen that doesn't cause much water retention. It's also undetectable in about 3 days. But it does not begin building muscle quicker or more effectively than longer acting esters. In fact, I always found propp to be more trouble than its worth. If you like it, that's great. But if we're to be the arbitors of reliable steroid information it's time to get the facts straight and not promote myth and rumor.

good post bro....very informative