Freedom and Prosperity will not be achieved by the falling of America!

[Frackal]

This will not be turned into a sexual repression thread...please begin a new thread

 

[Testosterone boy]

The irony of America is we puport to be this free society, yet we are more repressed, especially sexually, than Canada or Europe.

Don't forget the Aussies.

 

[p0ink]

oh my god! we are so oppressed because there arent shows about anal sex and jacking off on prime time tv! the injustice!

if you people judge how free we are based on who has sex and where it is discussed you are all a bunch of idiots.

 

[bigschweeler]

Why do you think everybody is making a big deal about Queer Eye?

I have to apologize, being a raging heterosexual, but I really like that show! Although the episode last night was pretty weak. Good thing they replaced the guy that does "culture"...he was too quiet.

On another note the wife and I watched Boy Meets Boy and my gaydar is seriously off.

 

[beastboy]

I'm confused......you want there to be more nudity, heteor sex, and an enviroment like Amsterdam in the US? That would be great if everyone had the maturaty level to handle it.

That is like handing a kid a gun.

 

[beastboy]

Sexually repressed folks...lets move it for Frackal...he does have a good thread here.

http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=255571

 

[bigschweeler]

This will not be turned into a sexual repression thread...please begin a new thread

Sorry Frackal...that was probably my fault.

 

[Mandinka2]

Re: Re: Re: Freedom and Prosperity will not be achieved by the falling of America!

I'm 1/2 awake so I wont' address this fully but a few points:

- All countries are going to put their own needs first, do you think Germany was opposing the United States for 'moral' reasons or selfish reasons? Look, France and Germany supported this repressive regime now because it served your interests currently...we supported them in the past for the same reason...every country in the world is guilty of that, because it's simply human nature.

Sorry Frack but that is real double standards stuff , other administrations had agreements with Iraq under the entriely legal U.N. oil-for food programme but whole administrations did not "support" their regime other than to highlight the ridiculous situation ENFORCED by the U.S. sanctions causing huge levels of infant mortality. I very much doubt if modern France or Germany would put up with such a situation but perhaps im being naieve. In any case the question is moot since we do not know for sure the answer but we do know that America has behaved in a reprehensible manner subverting the very notions you claim it champions.

But I'm talking about macro issues, not micro offenses... Who but America has played a larger role in fighting the totalitarianistic movements of the 20th century? Germany, Russia, Japan, China... Certainly America rising as the victor in those bloody idealogical struggles has bettered the world over?

Look at wealth distribution , Chile , Nicaragua , East Timor , the litany of American supported dictatorships (in some cases imposed) goes on and on. Guantanamo bay etc. Worst of all , America seems to me to be one of the least democratic countries there is in the West ,there would be an absolute uproar if any European country was involved in such attempts to not just alter the truth but to feed a naiton lies as was the case in Jessica Lynch , Tony Blair's Britain is on the verge of political anarchy merely because he sided with the U.S. recently. Certainly Russia did far more to halt Germany than the rest of the World despite "educating" the world through U.S. films to the contrary. You yourself have been openly critical of the style of "democracy" (it pains me to disgrace that term) as practiced in the U.S. model (thats a good one) in this forum.

What if Germany's facism or Russia's communism had prevailed?

Germany had Nazism = national socialism , America itself has not been entirely free from the power concentrations of facism u know (witness ur President starting an illegal war without just cause almost single handedly). We will never know the answer to your point , but there are other more benevolent administrations , my own personal view is that Hitler's Germany would probably be agreat place provided you were a German Aryan much like the world is a great place at the moment provided you are an American.

In the last Century, of all the movements that had arisen, aren't YOU personally thankful that America prevailed?

Actually no I'm not , I would much prefer it if in 1914 the men in the Christmas day truce came to the realisation that they had far more in common with each other than the Kaiser and the King and fucked off home to their families instead of shredding each other on the battlefields. I think both of those administrations were more fair than the present ones , they didnt bullshit their people either.

Also, you may want to read this:

Declaration of Independence 1776

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Im sorry Frack , ive never come across old American english , it is a valid entry it seems. On the other points of the Constitution does ur current administration not seem to be in flagrant breach of those terms and demand that it be overthrown?

 

[p0ink]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Freedom and Prosperity will not be achieved by the falling of America!

1. administrations had agreements with Iraq under the entriely legal U.N. oil-for food programme....

2. U.S. sanctions causing huge levels of infant mortality.

3.I very much doubt if modern France or Germany would put up with such a situation but perhaps im being naieve.

4. we do know that America has behaved in a reprehensible manner subverting the very notions you claim it champions.

5. Look at wealth distribution , Chile , Nicaragua , East Timor , the litany of American supported dictatorships (in some cases imposed) goes on and on.

6. Guantanamo bay etc.

7. America seems to me to be one of the least democratic countries there is in the West

8. there would be an absolute uproar if any European country was involved in such attempts to not just alter the truth but to feed a naiton lies as was the case in Jessica Lynch,

9. Tony Blair's Britain is on the verge of political anarchy merely because he sided with the U.S. recently.

10. Certainly Russia did far more to halt Germany than the rest of the World despite "educating" the world through U.S. films to the contrary.

11. America itself has not been entirely free from the power concentrations of facism u know (witness ur President starting an illegal war without just cause almost single handedly).

12. On the other points of the Constitution does ur current administration not seem to be in flagrant breach of those terms and demand that it be overthrown?

1. the oil for food program was a complete and total scam in the first place on 2 ends. one, the UN was making BILLIONS off of the UN oil-for-food program and KEEPING it for themselves, not helping the fucking iraqi people. secondly, once the food was delivered the hussein regime would simply pack up the food and sell it to places like jordan and sudan. it was a total scam. read for yourself, or continue to be ignorant; your choice.
UN Oil For Food Scam Master List

2. excuse me? we were responsible for the deaths of thousands of iraqi's? let me remind you of something your state sponsored news outlets wont remind you of; the sanctions placed on iraq didnt affect the amount of food, medicine, clean water saddam could receive for his people, and he could have ended the sanctions at any time by just complying with the 17 resolutions put in place over the course of 12 years. saddam is responsible for killing and starving his own people, not the US.

3. could it be because france and germany both had large ILLEGAL oil and weapons contracts with the former hussein regiem, even though it was forbidden by the UN?

4. subverting what notions?

5. maybe europe should start worrying about their own problems with dictators and genocide before criticizing a couple of US foreign policy failures.

6. what about our prison camp for enemy combatants who want to kill us?

7. please explain. im *dying* to hear your reasoning for this.

8. that was started by some US paper with an agenda to get women in combat roles in the us military, not by the us governmentm which had since cleared up all misunderstandings about it. if stupid people continue to believe it, it is their own fault.

9. god forbid a european country actually do the right thing for a change. oh yeah, i bet you tony blair will be back re-elected.

10. didnt atlantabiolab already thoroughly cover this and how wrong that sentiment was? but yes, keep telling yourslef it was europe's 'mighty military force' who singlehandedly stopped the nazi's

11. facism? LOL! bush not only got one authorization to use force from congress, but he got two. and once again, america isnt going to risk its national security to bow down to some miniscule, irrelevant european country like fucking france or germany, both of which authorized to use force against iraq in resolution 1441. you know one of the 17 UN resolutions passed which the UN itself failed to inforce. here, let me remind you of them now.

Resolution 687, April 3, 1991: "Iraq shall unconditionally accept the destruction, removal or rendering harmless, under international supervision, of all chemical and biological weapons and all stocks of agents and all related subsystems and components and all research, development, support and manufacturing facilities ... (and) all ballistic missiles with a range greater than 150 kilometers."

Resolution 707, Aug. 15, 1991: "Condemns Iraq's serious violation of a number of its obligations ... which constitutes a material breach of the relevant provisions. ... Demands that Iraq provide full, final and complete disclosure.

Resolution 949, Oct. 15, 1994: "Underlining that it will consider Iraq fully responsible for the serious consequences of any failure to fulfill the demands in the present resolution ... demands that Iraq cooperate fully."

Resolution 1060, Oct. 12, 1996: "Deplores the refusal of the Iraqi authorities to allow access to sites ... which constitutes a clear violation of the provisions of Security Council resolutions. Demands that Iraq cooperate fully ... and that the government of Iraq allow ... inspection teams immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access to any and all areas, facilities, equipment, records and means of transportation which they wish to inspect."

Resolution 1115, June 21, 1997: "Condemns the repeated refusal of the Iraqi authorities to allow access. ... Demands that Iraq cooperate fully."

Resolution 1134, Oct. 23, 1997: "Condemns the repeated refusal of the Iraqi authorities ... to allow access. ... Decides that such refusals to cooperate constitute a flagrant violation. ... Demands that Iraq cooperate fully."

Resolution 1154, March 2, 1998: "Stresses that compliance by the government of Iraq with its obligations ... is necessary for the implementation of Resolution 687, but that any violation would have severest consequences for Iraq."

Resolution 1194, Sept. 9, 1998: "Determined to ensure full compliance by Iraq ... condemns the decision by Iraq to suspend cooperation ... which constitutes a totally unacceptable contravention of its obligations. ... Demands that Iraq ... cooperate fully."

Resolution 1205, Nov. 5, 1998: "Demands that Iraq ... provide immediate, complete and unconditional cooperation."

Resolution 1441, Nov. 8, 2002: "Decides that Iraq has been and remains in material breach of its obligations under relevant resolutions. ... Decides ... to afford Iraq ... a final opportunity to comply with its disarmament obligations ... with the aim of bringing to full and verified completion the disarmament process established by resolution 687."

12. please tell me what bush did that was unconstitutional besides CFR and his support for the assualt weapons ban.

 

[p0ink]

Re: Re: Freedom and Prosperity will not be achieved by the falling of America!

Socialism has worked pretty well in France from what I can see , and not too bad in Sweden and Norway either.

Do u think that modern capitalistic Russia is any less corrupt than before? Communism is little more than a dream , it is not realistic , at least not in the long term.

1. LOL! yeah, socialism is a huge success if you consider nearly 10% unemployment rates, shitty GDP's, excessive taxation, limited personal freedom, and dependance on the state for everything you do a sucess, then yes, it has been a HUGE success. LOL!!

2. i think russia has come a long way since the fall of communism, like no longer butchering millions of people and treatening nuclear holocaust. so yeah, i would consider that a 'minor' step in the right direction. shit, they even passed a flat tax and started selling OIL to the US. right on.