Freedom and Prosperity will not be achieved by the falling of America!

[Mandinka2]

Re: Re: Re: Freedom and Prosperity will not be achieved by the falling of America!

1. LOL! yeah, socialism is a huge success if you consider nearly 10% unemployment rates, shitty GDP's, excessive taxation, limited personal freedom, and dependance on the state for everything you do a sucess, then yes, it has been a HUGE success. LOL!!

2. i think russia has come a long way since the fall of communism, like no longer butchering millions of people and treatening nuclear holocaust. so yeah, i would consider that a 'minor' step in the right direction. shit, they even passed a flat tax and started selling OIL to the US. right on.

Ok , I got an ol lunch break goin on right here so I can deal with this , I'll start with the short one: 1. Go to France , limited personal freedom , what a hoot! How exactly? That dependence thing - BS , look at their GDP/capita ratio for a real indicator. Not to shabby at 17 (UK at 15 , Ireland at no. 4 , US at no. 1). Having lived in both countries , I would choose America for THINGS , I would choose France for quality of life.

2. U think Russia has come a long way huh? Ur fucking administration made a hero out of a drunkard who singlehandedly drove the Russian economy into absolute chaos (by refusing international aid to a starving country if Yeltsin didnt get in). A transitional arrangement would have been far more beneficial for all sides. I have a few Russian friends , none of whom even like to speak about Russia so bad have things become there. Absolute pervasion of mafia , alcoholism and organised crime at record levels. Threatening nuclear holocaust? Thats rich seeing as the US is the only country that has fired an atomic weapon in War , the US has for far too long seemed to be the more likely aggressor , as it was in the infamous Cuban missile saga. Funny that you mention the export of minerals , since it is precisely the Nickel industry in particular that has become looted by mafia.
Right on to the first post...

 

[Mandinka2]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Freedom and Prosperity will not be achieved by the falling of America!

1. the oil for food program was a complete and total scam in the first place on 2 ends. one, the UN was making BILLIONS off of the UN oil-for-food program and KEEPING it for themselves, not helping the fucking iraqi people. secondly, once the food was delivered the hussein regime would simply pack up the food and sell it to places like jordan and sudan. it was a total scam. read for yourself, or continue to be ignorant; your choice.
UN Oil For Food Scam Master List

U sir are a liar and a fabricator. Ur own state department called the same program and I quote "a dramatic success". Read it and weep corner boy. http://usinfo.state.gov/regional/nea/iraq/text/1221fact/htm
In an interesting twist on the above a portion of the funds generated from the program was used (0.8%) to fund the arms inspectors that u CHOSE not to believe. I challenge u to come up with a RESPECTABLE source , freerepublic.com seems slightly to the right of the KKK in both content and veracity.

2. excuse me? we were responsible for the deaths of thousands of iraqi's? let me remind you of something your state sponsored news outlets wont remind you of; the sanctions placed on iraq didnt affect the amount of food, medicine, clean water saddam could receive for his people, and he could have ended the sanctions at any time by just complying with the 17 resolutions put in place over the course of 12 years. saddam is responsible for killing and starving his own people, not the US.

That is patently ridiculous , the weapons inspectors couldnt find arms , u said he still had them , as anabolicmd rightly OWNED ur ass before on , who was he gonna use them against , space aliens? U murdered those people and u lied about why u did it to ur own people. Worse still is that Americans died for this shit , so when Timmy O' Toole didnt come home this year cos Dubya wanted to butcher some innocent folks , what are you gonna do? How can you say that this is the greatest nation on earth ? How is this democracy?

3. could it be because france and germany both had large ILLEGAL oil and weapons contracts with the former hussein regiem, even though it was forbidden by the UN?

Reputable sources or withdraw

4. subverting what notions?

Justice , freedom and this one I owe to Frack - equality of ALL peoples.

5. maybe europe should start worrying about their own problems with dictators and genocide before criticizing a couple of US foreign policy failures.

Like who pal ? You wanna talk about somethin 60 years ago - fine , just remind urself that America is a colony too.

6. what about our prison camp for enemy combatants who want to kill us?

Thats what we have war crimes tribunals for or have u forgotten? If u go into ANY country and start carpet bombing folks then naturally enough they wanna kill u , make sense? Didnt they teach u to fight back when u were being dropped on ur head by the other kids?

7. please explain. im *dying* to hear your reasoning for this.

The inability of the American people whether through incompetence , apathy or malaise to not remove an administration which lied to them , falsified evidence which led to the murders of innocent people as well as the deaths of their own soldiers seems to suggest that something with ur system of representation is seriously wrong. One hting that European elections in paritcular are free from is allegations of voter rigging.

8. that was started by some US paper with an agenda to get women in combat roles in the us military, not by the us governmentm which had since cleared up all misunderstandings about it. if stupid people continue to believe it, it is their own fault.

"Some" U.S. paper u say ? Hmmm , very interesting twist , post sources. The BBC did not investigate "some US paper" u putz , they investigated the veracity of U.S. military reports. Lest I remind you some people (I was one , BKM was the other) thought the whole thing smelled of bullshit from day one and posted as much on DCU's thread.

9. god forbid a european country actually do the right thing for a change. oh yeah, i bet you tony blair will be back re-elected.

U think so , huh? Blairs credibility now is total dog bullshit , look at the threads by British people on this board alone , he sold them down the river. Blair will never lead his socialist party back into power and he knows it. Hey poink , quick question for u , do u think Colin Powell thinks u did the right thing in Iraq now?
http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=254429&highlight=British+military

10. didnt atlantabiolab already thoroughly cover this and how wrong that sentiment was? but yes, keep telling yourslef it was europe's 'mighty military force' who singlehandedly stopped the nazi's

Post source ID , I'd LOVE to see that one. I gotta go back to work now but I'll nail you on the last one later.... make no mistake

 

[p0ink]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Freedom and Prosperity will not be achieved by the falling of America!

You are a true moron. Norway's unemployment is around 4.9%, our hospitals are free, and no-one lives under the poverty line.

Poink, please leave red neck America for at least a few months and take a look at the real world. Hopefully your idiotic, republican posts will be less frequent on this board.

our unemployment rate was nearly that while IN A RECESSION. you think that is good? plus, the nearly 10% unemployment was for france and germany, you know, the two countries who tried to hamstring us at the UN? it was my fault, i should have been more clear.

your country's entire GDP doesnt even match some american companies' yearly income.

why would i want to leave the greatest, strongest, most richest country on earth to go hang out with a bunch of limp-wristed, spineless socialists? i love how you europeans consider your continent to be the end all of everything, considering we are far younger than you guys and have been running circles around you for many years. oh well.

 

[Spanky11]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Freedom and Prosperity will not be achieved by the falling of America!

why would i want to leave the greatest, strongest, most richest country on earth to go hang out with a bunch of limp-wristed, spineless socialists? i love how you europeans consider your continent to be the end all of everything, considering we are far younger than you guys and have been running circles around you for many years. oh well.

...this is the type of post that makes it look bad for the normal American citizens out there.

Yes, Norway and every country has faults - but we at least admit to them. Your post above underlines one of the main reasons that people dislike Americans like yourself - you never take a look in your own backyard before criticising others.

On second thought, please stay in the US.

 

[p0ink]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Freedom and Prosperity will not be achieved by the falling of America!

Ok , I got an ol lunch break goin on right here so I can deal with this , I'll start with the short one: 1. Go to France , limited personal freedom , what a hoot! How exactly? That dependence thing - BS , look at their GDP/capita ratio for a real indicator. Not to shabby at 17 (UK at 15 , Ireland at no. 4 , US at no. 1). Having lived in both countries , I would choose America for THINGS , I would choose France for quality of life.

2. U think Russia has come a long way huh? Ur fucking administration made a hero out of a drunkard who singlehandedly drove the Russian economy into absolute chaos (by refusing international aid to a starving country if Yeltsin didnt get in). A transitional arrangement would have been far more beneficial for all sides. I have a few Russian friends , none of whom even like to speak about Russia so bad have things become there. Absolute pervasion of mafia , alcoholism and organised crime at record levels. Threatening nuclear holocaust? Thats rich seeing as the US is the only country that has fired an atomic weapon in War , the US has for far too long seemed to be the more likely aggressor , as it was in the infamous Cuban missile saga. Funny that you mention the export of minerals , since it is precisely the Nickel industry in particular that has become looted by mafia.
Right on to the first post...

boy, you are all over the place when you post. you might want to get checked for ADD.

1. how can people truly be free when they have to depend on the state for some of the most important issues in life, ie health care? is their system as good as the health care system in the UK? you know, having to wait two years to fix a broken nose, have a surgery, etc, and before you tell me im full of shit, it was a uk member here who was bitching about it. you know what happens when i need medical care? i go to any doctor i want, and schedule an appointment for when i want. there is a reason america has the best and most innovative health services in the world, do you know what it is? the free market.

2. your argument is ridiculous. sure russia has its problems, but it is far better today than it was under communist rule. i dont recall them butchering millions of people, invading other countries and setting up satelite states, keeping people prisoners in their own country, starving millions, etc. etc. since the fall of communism. and yes, they were threatening a nuclear holocaust. dont you recall kruschev banging his shoe on the table at the UN saying, 'we will bury you!' over and over again. i see you remember them trying to place nukes 90 miles off the coast of florida to use as a weapon against us. to say we were more aggressive than the soviet union is a joke. you must really be grabbing for straws.

 

[p0ink]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Freedom and Prosperity will not be achieved by the falling of America!

...this is the type of post that makes it look bad for the normal American citizens out there.

Yes, Norway and every country has faults - but we at least admit to them. Your post above underlines one of the main reasons that people dislike Americans like yourself - you never take a look in your own backyard before criticising others.

On second thought, please stay in the US.

what are you talking about? i point out the flaws in our country on almost a daily basis. there are *MANY* things i am unhappy with right now and would like to see them come to an end.

 

[p0ink]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Freedom and Prosperity will not be achieved by the falling of America!

U sir are a liar and a fabricator. Ur own state department called the same program and I quote "a dramatic success". Read it and weep corner boy. http://usinfo.state.gov/regional/nea/iraq/text/1221fact/htm
In an interesting twist on the above a portion of the funds generated from the program was used (0.8%) to fund the arms inspectors that u CHOSE not to believe. I challenge u to come up with a RESPECTABLE source , freerepublic.com seems slightly to the right of the KKK in both content and veracity.

typical. you dismiss everything on there because it is a conservative website. that just shows you didnt even read any of it, because IT IS ALL LINKS TO ARTICLES FROM ALL DIFFERENT SOURCES!

here. here is a good european source for you (i dont think this one is state sponsored. whatever will you do without having the government think for you?), since you wont believe anything our
media has to say.

Billions lost with loopholes in the Oil-for-Food programme
Times Online | 4/22/03
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-655976,00.html

KICKBACKS from Iraq’s oil sales have run into billions of dollars because of loopholes in the United Nations Oil-for-Food system designed to feed the Iraqi people. Diplomats said yesterday that Saddam Hussein’s regime sometimes exacted an illegal surcharge of as much as 55-75 cents (30-45p) a barrel on its daily oil sales of some two million barrels under the programme, although the amount was generally 15-25 cents.

“We thought they were getting at least $500 million a year in illegal kickbacks,” one Western official said.

The money funnelled to Baghdad helped to finance its banned weapons programmes, but it could also have been used to buy influence abroad.

Iraq was able to choose which companies were awarded lucrative contracts to export oil or to import food, medicine or other humanitarian supplies.

The main beneficiaries were companies from Saddam’s political protectors at the United Nations, some of them trading companies with little more than a brass plate on the door.

Over the seven years of the Oil-for-Food programme, Russian companies got $7.3 billion worth of Iraqi business, almost twice as much as firms from any other country. Next on the list of leading trading partners were Egypt, with $4.3 billion; France, with $3.7 billion; and Jordan, the United Arab Emirates and China with some $3 billion each.

Diplomats said that British firms won “minimal” business, almost all of it in the health sector, worth a couple of hundred million dollars over the life of the programme.

The Oil-for-Food programme began operation in 1996 after Iraq agreed to allow the UN to supervise its oil sales and the purchases of food and medicine it made with the revenue.

All oil contracts have to be approved by the UN sanctions committee, made up of the 15 Security Council members. The money is deposited in a UN escrow account at the Banque Nationale de Paris, where it can be spent to purchase goods approved by the sanctions committee.

Over the years the Security Council lifted any restriction on the amount of oil that Iraq could sell and the oil price rose, sending Baghdad’s oil revenues up to an annual rate of some $20 billion.

During the same period the council progressively lifted sanctions on civilian goods that could be purchased with the oil money.

Under the rules, Iraq can buy anything except military equipment, unless it is on a “goods review list” of dual-use items that require specific sanctions committee approval.

The opportunity for siphoning off money from Oil-for-Food business arose because of the difficulty of setting a realistic price for Iraq’s crude.

The oil price is established by UN oil “overseers”, who try to make it track the world market. The contract price must then be approved by the sanctions committee, where any single member can block it.

There were originally three overseers, but the US and Norwegian members quit, leaving only a Russian who was sometimes criticised for setting the price too high. For several years, Russia blocked new replacements. But Moscow eventually relented. Iraq was able to exploit price fluctuations to ensure that the UN-fixed price allowed enough margin for extra profits to be skimmed off.

Britain led a campaign last year to change the UN system to “retro-active pricing”, so that actual, rather than predicted, market conditions were taken into account. The result has been that illegal surcharges were reduced, before the war, to an estimated three to five cents a barrel.

Diplomats also suspect that Iraqi officials profited from trading on the world oil markets on inside information from Baghdad's oil decisions, such as its frequent moves to suspend and resume pumping crude.

The Oil-for-Food programme has a budget that is many times larger than that of the UN secretariat itself, yet it operates in great secrecy.

Although all oil contracts have to be approved by the sanctions committee, the body meets behind closed doors and details of transactions are not made public.

Members of the sanctions committee say that some 1,129 companies from 86 countries are registered with the UN to do Oil-for-Food business.

The UN escrow account currently holds some $10.3 billion earmarked for such items as $437 million of health-related material, $513 million of water and sanitation gear and $1.3 billion of electrical equipment.

A quarter of Iraq's oil revenues are set aside to settle claims from the first Gulf War and a further 3 per cent goes to finance the UN weapons inspection effort in Iraq and other administrative costs.

 

[The_Eviscerator]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Freedom and Prosperity will not be achieved by the falling of America!

---honest question

but doesnt norway have a homogenous population and a strong work ethic overall so that people actually get off government programs instead of becoming multigenerational parasites like here???

like it or not, a homogenous population seems to increase the chance of a feeling of nationalism that pervades into the nation's work ethic overall...

the swiss are the same are they not???

Not to mention that Norway is 333,000 km/2 , Where the US is nearly 10 million. To compare US and Norway is asinine. When you have a small country and a population that is almost 100% homogenous it is hard to have those in society that play the "victim" card. The US has a lot of "victims" walking around who fulfill their own prophecy every day.

 

[Testosterone boy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Freedom and Prosperity will not be achieved by the falling of America!

You are a true moron. Norway's unemployment is around 4.9%, our hospitals are free, and no-one lives under the poverty line.

Poink, please leave red neck America for at least a few months and take a look at the real world. Hopefully your idiotic, republican posts will be less frequent on this board.

Good idea, perhaps he will "fall into" a fjord.