First Cycle Check: Which of these two options?

[Stallbro]

I am ready to place an order after some great insight and assistance from several bros on this board. I now need to choose the best option with maybe some final tweaks.

Stats:
30yrs
6'
175lbs
BF 11-12%
Weight training regularly since college (4 days/wk)

Goals:
Extremely lean, cut and vascular. I don't want to bulk. 10lbs gain max. 8-9% BF.

Diet:
Clean 2200cals 5 even meals/day (50g protein shake, egg whites, oatmeal, fresh fruit, salmon, chicken breast, fresh veggies, cottage cheese, salad, almonds)

Option 1:
Test E 500mg 1-10wks
Anavar 50mg ED 4-10wks
HCG 250IU EOD
Aromasin 12.5mg ED
Clomid 50mg ED 11-14wks
(May test Dermacrine Sustain during PCT since regular Dermacrine worked well for me already)

Option 2:
Test E 250mg 1-10wks
Primo 600mg 1-10wks
Anavar 50mg ED 4-10wks
HCG 250IU EOD
Aromasin 12.5mg ED
Clomid 50mg ED 11-14wks
(May test Derma Sustain)

 

[Wulfgar]

bor I think you can gain 10 lbs and stay ripped without any drugs if you stay on point with your diet and training in a pretty quick amount of time.
and if this is your very first cycle ever, then IMHO, that is ALOT of gear for a 175 lb guy. you wont need anymore than maybe 200-300 TOTAL MG a week to achieve a maximal androgenic/anabolic response.
I alwyas recommend a Deca only cycle for 1st timers. 200 mg every 8 days for 8 weeks. lock in the nutirtion, do a little cardio, dont sweat the PCT, just take some OTC stuff at the end like creatine,arginine, glutamine and save all the rest of the gear and ancillaries for a few cycles down the road
remember bro, MINIMAL amounts for MAXIMAL results goes a long way with this stuff.

 

[lifthard2005]

I am ready to place an order after some great insight and assistance from several bros on this board. I now need to choose the best option with maybe some final tweaks.

Stats:
30yrs
6'
175lbs
BF 11-12%
Weight training regularly since college (4 days/wk)

Goals:
Extremely lean, cut and vascular. I don't want to bulk. 10lbs gain max. 8-9% BF.

Diet:
Clean 2200cals 5 even meals/day (50g protein shake, egg whites, oatmeal, fresh fruit, salmon, chicken breast, fresh veggies, cottage cheese, salad, almonds)

Option 1:
Test E 500mg 1-10wks
Anavar 50mg ED 4-10wks
HCG 250IU EOD
Aromasin 12.5mg ED
Clomid 50mg ED 11-14wks
(May test Dermacrine Sustain during PCT since regular Dermacrine worked well for me already)

Option 2:
Test E 250mg 1-10wks
Primo 600mg 1-10wks
Anavar 50mg ED 4-10wks
HCG 250IU EOD
Aromasin 12.5mg ED
Clomid 50mg ED 11-14wks
(May test Derma Sustain)

Bro, this seems complicated for what you want. Test E will bloat you.

Try this:

wk 1-8 prop @ 100mg eod
wk 1-7 tren a @ 75mg eod
wk 1-6 winny @ 50mg ed

OR
wk 1-12 Test Prop 100mg eod
wk 1-12 Eq @ 600mg/wk
wk 4-12 var @ 60-80mg ed
wk 1-12 proviron @ 50mg ed

 

[galaxy]

Looks way to complicated for a first cycle. I mean I know it isnt, and it defiantely shows research but I would just keep it simple and go with 250mgs test a week, maybe 400mgs and then do a basic 2 weeks of hcg by 2 weeks of clomid at the end.

 

[Stallbro]

Ok, these responses are all across the board. While I do want to keep it simple I also know that your first cycle is always the best so I want to make it count, so to speak.

I'm leaning towards Option 2 since it is like most people's "cutting" cycles. Please advise why it looks too complicated.

 

[digit0x]

Ok, these responses are all across the board. While I do want to keep it simple I also know that your first cycle is always the best so I want to make it count, so to speak.

I'm leaning towards Option 2 since it is like most people's "cutting" cycles. Please advise why it looks too complicated.

agreed. your option two will yeild leaner results. cannot stress nutrition enough here. at 6'ft 2200 calories seems a little light givin your height/weight. consider option two at 250-300 mgs test-e / week.

 

[needtogetaas]

agreed. your option two will yeild leaner results. cannot stress nutrition enough here. at 6'ft 2200 calories seems a little light givin your height/weight. consider option two at 250-300 mgs test-e / week.

option two looks ok except imo primo should be run at least 12-14 weeks and with that cycle I dont see him really needed a lot of Aromasin I would just keep that or nolva on hand maybe even just run aifm during the hole cycle.... see I can say it.lol

deff go with derma sustain for pct bro if you liked the derma before then why not......

 

[Stallbro]

agreed. your option two will yeild leaner results. cannot stress nutrition enough here. at 6'ft 2200 calories seems a little light givin your height/weight. consider option two at 250-300 mgs test-e / week.

I know 2200cals is light but I don't want to bulk so if my cals are light and clean I should stay tight throughout the cycle. This is why I presented two options. If the 500mg of Test is too much or may cause too much bloat then I'll scale it down. If people think bloat will be too much with even 250mg of Test then I may just do a Primo/Var cycle. The only worry there is that I don't want to screw with Libido.

 

[hesnobradpitt]

Option 2:
Test E 250mg 1-10wks
Primo 600mg 1-10wks
Anavar 50mg ED 4-10wks
HCG 250IU EOD
Aromasin 12.5mg EDafima
Clomid 50mg ED 11-14wks12to15 wks
(May test Derma Sustain.
Brad.

 

[Stallbro]

Option 2:
Test E 250mg 1-10wks
Primo 600mg 1-10wks
Anavar 50mg ED 4-10wks
HCG 250IU EOD
Aromasin 12.5mg EDafima
Clomid 50mg ED 11-14wks12to15 wks
(May test Derma Sustain.
Brad.

Ok, I'm either going to do this Option 2 or Option 2 without the Test E (since I don't want bloat or bulk). I just don't know what I could take for Libido (besides Provi, which I don't want to take because of sides).

 

[UFC22]

Alot of out of control options is what I see. If this is truly his first cycle then keep it simple, please no tren.

1-10 - Test (long ester Enanthate or cypionate) 250-500mgs/EW
1-4 - Dianabol 20mgs/ED

Run a low dose AI throughout. Consider Aromasin 12.5mgs/ED, Armidex 1mg/ED.

I know you want to run var, primo, and those are very good choices. See you are doing that because you want "lean" gains. You can get lean gains of ANYTHING as long as your diet is clean. Primo and var are among the safer anabolics to use but thats not what you are using them for by the looks of your post.

 

[Bruce]

I am ready to place an order after some great insight and assistance from several bros on this board. I now need to choose the best option with maybe some final tweaks.

Stats:
30yrs
6'
175lbs
BF 11-12%
Weight training regularly since college (4 days/wk)

Goals:
Extremely lean, cut and vascular. I don't want to bulk. 10lbs gain max. 8-9% BF.

Diet:
Clean 2200cals 5 even meals/day (50g protein shake, egg whites, oatmeal, fresh fruit, salmon, chicken breast, fresh veggies, cottage cheese, salad, almonds)

Option 1:
Test E 500mg 1-10wks
Anavar 50mg ED 4-10wks
HCG 250IU EOD
Aromasin 12.5mg ED
Clomid 50mg ED 11-14wks
(May test Dermacrine Sustain during PCT since regular Dermacrine worked well for me already)

Option 2:
Test E 250mg 1-10wks
Primo 600mg 1-10wks
Anavar 50mg ED 4-10wks
HCG 250IU EOD
Aromasin 12.5mg ED
Clomid 50mg ED 11-14wks
(May test Derma Sustain)

i like option two. however i would lower the test to 125mg ew personally. you just need a maintenence dose, and i'd go with 800mg or primo. run the var the first weeks man you want an oral to kick off. everything else looks good.

 

[Pump2356]

primo at 200mg and test at 250mg for about 10 weeks is going to give him the 10 pounds of quality muscle he wants. Also, adding in anavar for 6-7 weeks is nice too to harden up

600mg of primo is way to high and 500mg of test will just bloat you unless your running an AI but still will be overkill to run for the results you want.

 

[Stallbro]

Primo at 200mg? Dbol? Does anyone else think this is bad advice for my goals? I have read enough know I need more than 400mg of Primo for any positive effect.

 

[samoth]

Six feet tall, 175lbs? You don't need steroids.

If you want to gain weight and put on muscle, eat more than 2200 calories a day.

If you want to lose weight... well, I'd say the anabolic board is probably the wrong place.

You state that you don't want bulk or bloat... well, this is just what steroids do. With goals of 175-185 @ 6" and 8-9%, you need the diet forum, not the steroid forum. There exists a linear relationship between muslce gains and overall body weight gains when it comes to steroids -- and you've stated that this is not what you are looking for.

HTH

 

[samoth]

I have read enough know I need more than 400mg of Primo for any positive effect.

Correct. Primobolan is chemically inert until it reaches a critical mass of 400mg, after which it's density sufficiently large enough to begin nuclear fusion thus creating an anabolic environment within the user.

HTH

 

[digit0x]

Correct. Primobolan is chemically inert until it reaches a critical mass of 400mg, after which it's density sufficiently large enough to begin nuclear fusion thus creating an anabolic environment within the user.

HTH

rofl.

are we building nukes here or....

 

[Stallbro]

Six feet tall, 175lbs? You don't need steroids.

If you want to gain weight and put on muscle, eat more than 2200 calories a day.

If you want to lose weight... well, I'd say the anabolic board is probably the wrong place.

You state that you don't want bulk or bloat... well, this is just what steroids do. With goals of 175-185 @ 6" and 8-9%, you need the diet forum, not the steroid forum. There exists a linear relationship between muslce gains and overall body weight gains when it comes to steroids -- and you've stated that this is not what you are looking for.

HTH

Don't get me wrong here. I have gotten to 175 after a calorie restricted, cardio focused regimen. All this to prepare for my first cycle. If my 2200 calories are too low then I can raise them (perhaps you could offer a more appropriate range). Again, my goal is 10lbs of muscle that I can keep.

 

[digit0x]

Kinda getting mixed signals here...

Like Samoth said, steroids produce mass. Its what they're made for. If you want to lean then try eating clean, more cardio and maybe some other supps that can stimulate your metabolism.

But at your height/weight you have more frame to fill and that will go a longer way to making you look shredded than just shooting up a bunch of primo.

 

[Pump2356]

200mg of primo is great advice and not bad. It will give you results because your also stacking it with 250mg of test and will allow you to take a lower dose of the more anabolic drug , hence good advice! However, the best advice would be to go get your diet in check and stay away from bulking if you want to lose bf

You don't need more than 400mg of primo for a positive effect sir...I would love to know who told you nothing will happen at under 400mg. I know a few guys in my gym that have gained 10-12 pounds in 14 weeks of just muscle with just 300mg. They train hardcore and diet is ideal, so they are rewarded since you shouldn't just expect the juice to do everything for you. Now if you want to gain 20-25 lbs in a cycle then its a waste to use at that dosage or on its own.

I'm just trying to give you helpful and safe advice..steroids are not to be messed around with .

 

[Stallbro]

Kinda getting mixed signals here...

Like Samoth said, steroids produce mass. Its what they're made for. If you want to lean then try eating clean, more cardio and maybe some other supps that can stimulate your metabolism.

But at your height/weight you have more frame to fill and that will go a longer way to making you look shredded than just shooting up a bunch of primo.

My diet is in check and I can adjust it easily. I already have experience with stims and other diet supps (TRex, Glucorell, Sesapure, YES, etc.).

I don't want to add confusion. I just don't want to follow the pattern of many of my friends who bulk and bloat during cycle only to have to lean and cut after. If I can fashion a cycle that allows for slow, steady, lean growth then I will be satisfied.

 

[Wulfgar]

rofl.

are we building nukes here or....

I literally LOL'ed at that

 

[Stallbro]

200mg of primo is great advice and not bad. It will give you results because your also stacking it with 250mg of test and will allow you to take a lower dose of the more anabolic drug , hence good advice! However, the best advice would be to go get your diet in check and stay away from bulking if you want to lose bf

You don't need more than 400mg of primo for a positive effect sir...I would love to know who told you nothing will happen at under 400mg. I know a few guys in my gym that have gained 10-12 pounds in 14 weeks of just muscle with just 300mg. They train hardcore and diet is ideal, so they are rewarded since you shouldn't just expect the juice to do everything for you. Now if you want to gain 20-25 lbs in a cycle then its a waste to use at that dosage or on its own.

I'm just trying to give you helpful and safe advice..steroids are not to be messed around with .

No, I appreciate the assistance. I learned about Primo in a couple technical articles but a quick opinion can be found on www.isteroids.com


My history with Primobolan Enanthate (the injectable version) has been less than impressive. I used it at 200mgs/week about a decade ago, and wasn’t impressed at all. A couple of years ago I went back to it and used 350mgs/week (100mgs/Every other Day), and got much better results, but still wasn’t overly impressed with it. Add to that the fact that it is an expensive chemical, and I really wasn’t impressed.

 

[2excel]

This is going to sound pretty mundane next to all the ideas being proposed here, but I think there's another perspective that should be presented:

Your body will take time to adapt. Give it some time.

Both of the options you propose are way too heavy, in my opinion, for a first cycle.

I'd suggest something more like:
test 250/wk
primo 250/wk

If you want to push it (and it's clear you do), go up to 300 for each. That's it.

I'd recommend an 8 week cycle. I'd recommend at least 300cal/day more. (definitely!!)

Primo is healthier than anavar. No need for both.

Don't do the hcg for that long or you risk LH desensitization, which is not something you want. Try to keep track of how much testicular shrinkage you have during the cycle, and also how much less your ejaculate. You may not need the hcg at all if the changes are small (unless you're planning another cycle soon after, in which case you probably should). If you need to do the hcg I recommend 1000IU/3d for 9 days.
Ideally wait a week or two after cycle to start the hcg so your body is starting to put out the LH that the hcg is trying to potentiate.

Clomid post cycle, maybe. It may not help much, and may make you feel pretty shitty (and if you stop working out it'll cost you more than the clomid gets you!)

If you can afford it, I'd recommend getting a blood test before to see what your natural test levels are. It'll give you a reference down the road in case you want to see how effective your pct is.

Like I said, very boring. You'll probably ignore the advice in all the excitement to get ripped - I know how it is. But just think about it for a moment...I have little doubt it you'll get much better results in the long run...

More is not better. More complicated is not smarter.

 

[digit0x]

I literally LOL'ed at that

ha yea and you know someone read that and said "hmm, ok critical mass etc etc primo under 400 etc etc, ok im gonna add this to my notes!"

 

[digit0x]

My diet is in check and I can adjust it easily. I already have experience with stims and other diet supps (TRex, Glucorell, Sesapure, YES, etc.).

I don't want to add confusion. I just don't want to follow the pattern of many of my friends who bulk and bloat during cycle only to have to lean and cut after. If I can fashion a cycle that allows for slow, steady, lean growth then I will be satisfied.

Aight then have you considered EQ? Thats exactly what it does. Maybe low dose test and 400-600 mgs/week eq.

or

400-600 EQ/week
proviron/week

Read up about EQ it sounds like its what you want.

 

[Pump2356]

Yes but was he a beginner using that dose? I doubt it , he probably completed many cycles and acourse would need a higher dose. Plus maybe he was using ug and it was underdosed.

This is the same website that states an updated cycle of what arnold should have used in this day and age. Well...he shouldn't change it because it worked for him and produced the greatest body ever. Arnold had access to any drug he wanted and he chose the diabbol, primo stack.

Also if you keep your dosages in a sane amount and have a two month or less cycle there is no need to play around with hcg or clomid and a real pct. I know a couple trainers who don't use anything and recover fine after a few weeks but they use low dosages of deca(300) and dianabol(25mg). Only nolvadex is needed maybe and an AI throughout to keep water down for blood pressure issues..

Its that everyone nowadays is using crazy amounts of drugs.

but if you want to add weight your going to gain fat and water weight with drugs like test enanthate and dianabol. But you said you don't want to bulk and bloat ,then primo won't bloat you, will give you a consistant gain in muscle mass and is the only drug to work great on a poor diet, but if you go higher than 500mg you may get side effects and will cost a lot.

But your tall so you can easily gain muscle mass naturally so just up the calories and then cut with a small dose of primo to maintain your mass. Its hard to bulk and cut at the same time...unless maybe you run hgh and primo it mght work in a 3-4 month cycle, maybe..