Everybody Here SUCKS!

[Ross]

We do not speak to each other like this on this site ross. I don't give a fucking rats ass who the fuck you think you are. Have some respect when you talk to people on this site. I am not going to say it again.

O welcome back.

Hey sexy! You know it turns me on when you talk naughty like that to me..

Hahahha good to be back bro, sorry for coming off so rude, I can get extremely PASSIONATE at times..

Glad you're still running shit my good man.

 

[*The_West*]

so come on ross, when are you going to post up some pics of you doing all the standard competition poses? im sure i remember someone asking you when you posted your last lot of pics and you agreed!

 

[needtogetaas]

Hey sexy! You know it turns me on when you talk naughty like that to me..

Hahahha good to be back bro, sorry for coming off so rude, I can get extremely PASSIONATE at times..

Glad you're still running shit my good man.

Its cool bro. I am doing good. How was your 4th?

 

[Nelson Montana]

Yes I agree with Nelson's original statement. After all we are meant to be BodyBUILDERS after all. I also agree with others that suggest there is no one fix for all. My belief is that if your continually strive to increase overall body mass, the increased muscle mass eventually becomes your "fat burner". What I think happens on forums is that there is a general belief that AAS is necessary to both increase overall body mass & increase lean muscle mass.Those that have been using gear for a while soon find out that its only part of the equation & a relatively small part at that.

Exactly.

 

[Nelson Montana]

ONE OTHER THING TO CONSIDER...

What guys don;t realize is that steroids provide a look -- a fullness, density and vascularity, that has nothing to do with weight gain. If you stop using these drugs and try to lose weight, sure, you're going to look like you're shrinking. BUT THAT IS NOT CATABOLISM!!! It's simply the act of losing weight without being on steroids.

It isn't that the steroids are preventing muscle loss. You just have less of "the look" without them.

So again, it's more a vanity issue than anything else. Gear while cutting looks better than no gear while cutting. But the gear isn't really putting on much muscle.

Bottom line. If you use steroids to cut, then go off. In a month you'll look the same as if you cut without them. However, if you GAIN muscle while on, two months after you're off, you'll still have more muscle than when you started.

 

[gjohnson5]

Try entering a calorie defecit and performing increased cardio while NOT ANY ANABOLIC STEROIDS; you will LOSE MUSCLE, plain and simple.

it depends on how clean the calories were to begin with. With properly timed and partitions nutrients you can keep muscle while dieting

 

[aquatic_glories]

ONE OTHER THING TO CONSIDER...



Bottom line. If you use steroids to cut, then go off. In a month you'll look the same as if you cut without them. However, if you GAIN muscle while on, two months after you're off, you'll still have more muscle than when you started.

what exactly did you mean in here??? Of course we are gonna have more muscle then when we started. We can train naturally at that time and have more muscle than we started.
Do you mean much more muscle??? Or if you mean otherwise, why should we lose muscle??

thanks

 

[Ross]

ONE OTHER THING TO CONSIDER...

What guys don;t realize is that steroids provide a look -- a fullness, density and vascularity, that has nothing to do with weight gain. If you stop using these drugs and try to lose weight, sure, you're going to look like you're shrinking. BUT THAT IS NOT CATABOLISM!!! It's simply the act of losing weight without being on steroids.

It isn't that the steroids are preventing muscle loss. You just have less of "the look" without them.

So again, it's more a vanity issue than anything else. Gear while cutting looks better than no gear while cutting. But the gear isn't really putting on much muscle.

Bottom line. If you use steroids to cut, then go off. In a month you'll look the same as if you cut without them. However, if you GAIN muscle while on, two months after you're off, you'll still have more muscle than when you started.

Not only do Anabolic Steroids produce a "look" which is extremely dense, hard, striated and vascular, they also PRESERVE muscle mass while DIETING!

If I even attempted to reduce my calories and incorporate cardiovascular activity in to my regimen without the use of anabolic steroids, I would lose a SIGNIFICANT amount of lean muscle tissue; I have done it before, and I am NOT willing to do it again.

Your body can barely maintain it's own muscle mass even when BULKING in a NATURAL state, and you think you can actually maintain your muscle mass while CUTTING in a natural state? You have no experience my man, plain and simple, just callling a spade a spade, not being combative.

 

[gjohnson5]

Because you do not know how to diet
Fix the diet and the problem would be fixed

 

[KnockedOutFAST]

People didnt always rely on drugs, bro. You CAN keep a lot of muscle (you will always lose some) while cutting it just takes longer and more work than if you were on steroids. Steroids get you there faster, obviously, but i dont think they are needed UNLESS you are going to do a show or if you are as big as you want to get, and dont want to gain more weight, just want to get rid of any excess BF and water.

 

[aquatic_glories]

It also depends A LOT on bodytype. For an ecto, going from low bf% to very low bf% is very very hard. Meso's can do much better job.

 

[khemix]

There are so many people kissing so much ass to others in here.

Theres a lot of bad advice in this thread.

People that tell you that you HAVE TO take steroids to lean out without losing a large amount of your muscle...I wouldn't consider that good advice.

Gee...lets make people here feel like they need steroids even more..........

Chris

 

[Big_BK]

There are so many people kissing so much ass to others in here.

Theres a lot of bad advice in this thread.

People that tell you that you HAVE TO take steroids to lean out without losing a large amount of your muscle...I wouldn't consider that good advice.

Gee...lets make people here feel like they need steroids even more..........

Chris

Best advice in here, as well as swole. Everyone has a different body type but at the end of the day we are all individual and our body react differently.

 

[*The_West*]

its simple- if you are a competitive bb, losing any muscle mass, however insignificant an amount is not acceptable, you will need to stay on whilst cutting
if you are not, then it is perfectly do-able to cut bf with correct diet and cardio, you shouldnt be taking drugs that you dont need to, we all know that. if you lose a little bit of muscle mass, dont worry about it, as long as you gained more than you lost, you can always bulk up again at a later stage.
khemix-if you were referring to me as one of these "ass kissers" i resent that, i said that ross has an incredible physique, which he does. not kissing ass, stating fact. yeah, he probably made a couple of bad moves down the line, who doesnt? but the end result is there, and you dont get to look like that without knowing what you are doing.

 

[gjohnson5]

its simple- if you are a competitive bb, losing any muscle mass, however insignificant an amount is not acceptable, you will need to stay on whilst cutting
if you are not, then it is perfectly do-able to cut bf with correct diet and cardio, you shouldnt be taking drugs that you dont need to, we all know that. if you lose a little bit of muscle mass, dont worry about it, as long as you gained more than you lost, you can always bulk up again at a later stage.
khemix-if you were referring to me as one of these "ass kissers" i resent that, i said that ross has an incredible physique, which he does. not kissing ass, stating fact. yeah, he probably made a couple of bad moves down the line, who doesnt? but the end result is there, and you dont get to look like that without knowing what you are doing.

Ross said nothing about competitive body building. He was speaking in absolutes

 

[*The_West*]

Ross said nothing about competitive body building. He was speaking in absolutes

no, he said that if you place yourself in a calorific deficit and increase cardio you will lose muscle mass. which is true. some non competitive bb'ers want to hang on to every gram of muscle, which if they do its up to them.

 

[khemix]

its simple- if you are a competitive bb, losing any muscle mass, however insignificant an amount is not acceptable, you will need to stay on whilst cutting
if you are not, then it is perfectly do-able to cut bf with correct diet and cardio, you shouldnt be taking drugs that you dont need to, we all know that. if you lose a little bit of muscle mass, dont worry about it, as long as you gained more than you lost, you can always bulk up again at a later stage.
khemix-if you were referring to me as one of these "ass kissers" i resent that, i said that ross has an incredible physique, which he does. not kissing ass, stating fact. yeah, he probably made a couple of bad moves down the line, who doesnt? but the end result is there, and you dont get to look like that without knowing what you are doing.

I 100% agree with you westie. But 99.8% of people here dont compete. So the man thats telling everyone they cant lean out and not lose all their muscle without steroids....he should be addressing the competitive guys. NOT THE AVERAGE ELITE USER. Thats why I call that bad advice. What would you call it?

That is exactly why I didn't disclose any names. I wasn't talking about you specifically. Just because someone looks good, doesn't mean their healthy and that they have the right advice to give. And just because someone isn't jacked, that doesn't mean their advice isn't every bit as good as mine.

And about that end result...that end result can be acquired in a very unhealthy manner. Gear on top of gear on top of gear WILL force you to grow. That doesn't mean their advice is smart. And no, I'm not talking about anyone in particular. This is a general statement.

Chris

 

[SpyWizard]

i lean bulk

or should i say

i stay lean while bulking??

i'm confused

cool thing is about this primo and test run i only gained about 12lbs but i'm so much bigger and leaner it's incredible

all on maintenance calories, with the occasional day of stuffing my face with everything

i just watch and listen to my body - if i'm gaining bad weight i look at what i've been eating and make changes

i don't do cardio llolool

i have to agree screw cardio,

I've never wanted to gain 30 lbs on a cycle, muscle or not, i'm bigger than most i encounter in life anyway, younger or older than myself..

what does aas do for me?? it allows me to heal, recover, and to build a stronger body..

so much in life is uncontrollable, even the illusion that we can control our body composition (to a point) so recreational use of steroids, and the diet to lean out without becoming catabolic, to heal that knee injury, and to feel better about one's self is not a bad thing..

However, the original post in this thread is correct, most here will not be pro, they will mess their hormone levels up with 1000mg test cycles and cause many to bloat, and have ed... oh well, over time they will recover..

happy lifting..

 

[*The_West*]

very true. but a lot of the time ross' posts have to be taken for what they are-information, that he knows will cause a debate.

 

[gjohnson5]

I believe you will lose lean BODY mass which is different from muscle mass.
Also I believe he used the word SIGNIFICANT... So he believe that ANYONE will lose significant muscle mass while dieting.
I believe it is totally possible to naturally lose 30 lbs without dropping muscle

What I am saying is that his diet needs work. Muscle mass losses can be minimized with a good diet and cardio which is directed at fat loss. This is the whole reason we have diet and cardio boards. If you don't read them then you can give the impression that the only way is drug use.

Use more nutrient dense meals with more competent timing as well as with 65% VO2MAX style cardio and muscle mass losses can be minimized.

no, he said that if you place yourself in a calorific deficit and increase cardio you will lose muscle mass. which is true. some non competitive bb'ers want to hang on to every gram of muscle, which if they do its up to them.

 

[airsmith2k]

I 100% agree with you westie. But 99.8% of people here dont compete. So the man thats telling everyone they cant lean out and not lose all their muscle without steroids....he should be addressing the competitive guys. NOT THE AVERAGE ELITE USER. Thats why I call that bad advice. What would you call it?

That is exactly why I didn't disclose any names. I wasn't talking about you specifically. Just because someone looks good, doesn't mean their healthy and that they have the right advice to give. And just because someone isn't jacked, that doesn't mean their advice isn't every bit as good as mine.

And about that end result...that end result can be acquired in a very unhealthy manner. Gear on top of gear on top of gear WILL force you to grow. That doesn't mean their advice is smart. And no, I'm not talking about anyone in particular. This is a general statement.

Chris

bro can i borrow that huge vein in ur biceps for a few weeks?

 

[khemix]

I believe you will lose lean BODY mass which is different from muscle mass.
Also I believe he used the word SIGNIFICANT... So he believe that ANYONE will lose significant muscle mass while dieting.
I believe it is totally possible to naturally lose 30 lbs without dropping muscle

What I am saying is that his diet needs work. Muscle mass losses can be minimized with a good diet and cardio which is directed at fat loss. This is the whole reason we have diet and cardio boards. If you don't read them then you can give the impression that the only way is drug use.

Use more nutrient dense meals with more competent timing as well as with 65% VO2MAX style cardio and muscle mass losses can be minimized.

FOR GODS SAKE WOULD YOU PEOPLE READ THIS POST. AND THEN READ IT AGAIN!!!! AND THEN ONE MORE TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you GJ.

Chris

 

[halfcenturian]

FOOD FIGHT!!!

There is so much Testosterone flowing on this thread, you can smell it!

Guys are going for position like the horses at the start of the Kentucky Derby!




TIME OUT!

 

[Para_Shoot]

Nelson says "Face it. You, me, and most everyone here will never be a pro. Stop using steroids like you're one!"


I couldn't agree more! So Nelson, when is your next topic going to come out explaining why you DON'T have to run ungodly mega-doses to see results, like a gram a week or more people run?

 

[khemix]

Nelson says "Face it. You, me, and most everyone here will never be a pro. Stop using steroids like you're one!"

I apparently missed this post. I think there should be an amendment to it: "Stop telling people to use steroids like they're pros!"

And halfy, you're not kidding about all this drama. Such bullshit.

And I want to make sure everyone sees this post. Someone has to be the fucking voice of reason, rather than the voice of a juicehead.

I believe you will lose lean BODY mass which is different from muscle mass.
Also I believe he used the word SIGNIFICANT... So he believe that ANYONE will lose significant muscle mass while dieting.
I believe it is totally possible to naturally lose 30 lbs without dropping muscle

What I am saying is that his diet needs work. Muscle mass losses can be minimized with a good diet and cardio which is directed at fat loss. This is the whole reason we have diet and cardio boards. If you don't read them then you can give the impression that the only way is drug use.

Use more nutrient dense meals with more competent timing as well as with 65% VO2MAX style cardio and muscle mass losses can be minimized.

Listen up people ^^.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Not only do Anabolic Steroids produce a "look" which is extremely dense, hard, striated and vascular, they also PRESERVE muscle mass while DIETING!


.................................................................

NOT VERY MUCH THOUGH. AS GJOHNSON SAID, YOU LOSE MASS, BUT NOT MUSCLE, IF YOU DIET CORRECTLY.


.............................................



If I even attempted to reduce my calories and incorporate cardiovascular activity in to my regimen without the use of anabolic steroids, I would lose a SIGNIFICANT amount of lean muscle tissue; I have done it before, and I am NOT willing to do it again.

............................................


THAT"S BECAUSE YOU DON:T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING. DUDE, YOU HAVE AMAZING GENETICS, BUT YOU"VE BEEN ON GEAR PRETTY MUCH NON STOP SINCE YOU"RE 20 YEARS OLD. BETWEN THE TWO, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW HOW TO GET RESULTS WITHOUT STEROIDS AND YOU SURE DON'T KNOW HOW TO ADVISE A HARDGAINER.


.................................

Your body can barely maintain it's own muscle mass even when BULKING in a NATURAL state, and you think you can actually maintain your muscle mass while CUTTING in a natural state?

...................................................


SO YOU"RE SAYING MUSCLE GROWTH IN GENERAL IS BARELY POSSIBLE WITHOUT STEROIDS???


.....................................


You have no experience my man, plain and simple,


................................................


NOW THAT IS FUNNY! DUDE, I PLACED IN THE NPC WHEN YOU WERE SPROUTING YOUR FIRST PUBES.




..........................................................


just callling a spade a spade, not being combative.


......................................

YOU"RE HILAREOUS. NOW GO HAVE A HEINEKEN.

..

 

[khemix]

..

Given the advice that Ross gave in that post, that you outlined....

I can't believe they let him return. There was a debate on whether or not to let him return due to some of the bad advice he had given in his previous stay. Now we, the mentors, the mods, and the knowledgeable, have to babysit his posts, hoping to hell we catch when he gives someone bad advice.

Thats fine though, I've been meaning to spend more time with you guys anyways .

Chris

 

[Big_BK]

Nelson says "Face it. You, me, and most everyone here will never be a pro. Stop using steroids like you're one!"


I couldn't agree more! So Nelson, when is your next topic going to come out explaining why you DON'T have to run ungodly mega-doses to see results, like a gram a week or more people run?

This is a good point that needs to be brought up on ALL board IMO. Too many people are wanting to run cycles that pro's run but they fail to realize they don't have the size the pro's have, the years of experience and growth or the genetics. I have a great life example. I know a guy who has to copy everyone on everything he does so he always has the best. One of the more recent things was getting a motorcycle. He has never rode a bike before and has no experience but goes out and gets a racing bike, expensive gloves, hemelet, etc. and can barely ride the thing and hardly does.

With that being said, the pro's do what they do because they made it that far and do what they need to in order to succeed at that level. Trying to copy a pro before you make it that far will not work, all the pieces need to be in place.

 

[Ross]

Elite Fitness is a STEROID & BODYBUILDING FORUM. LOSING MUSCLE MASS IS UNACCEPTABLE! The whole point of using steroids, as Nelson stated, is TO GROW MUSCLE.

Nelson says: "Face it. You, me, and most everyone here will never be a pro. Stop using steroids like you're one!"

Who the HECK is advising people to use steroids like a PRO? 400mgs of Primobolan is FAR from a heavy cycle, and that is ALL that is required when CUTTING.

Unless you weigh 150lbs and you have virtually no training experience, anyone who tries to reduce their calories and increase cardio in a calorie defecit will LOSE MUSCLE MASS. If you are even remotely over your natural limit, anabolic steroids are not only required when attempting to reduce bodyfat by entering a caloric defecit, they are even required to MAINTAIN your lean muscle mass when eating a calorie surplus.

You do remember Arnold said: "I only use Anabolic Steroids when dieting in preperation for a contest, so that I don't lose my muscle".

 

[khemix]

Bro....you're telling people that theres no physical way to maintain any kind of muscle, while trying to lean out, without steroids.

Thats is bad advice!! Just because you seem dependant on steroids to accomplish your fitness goals doesn't mean thats the advice you give to everyone else!

You need to be directing people to the Diet & Nutrition board for this shit man. You're exactly part of whats wrong with the world today. The only way you feel like you can do it...is the easy, steroid way. I'm sorry.

There is a reason there was such a strong debate on whether or not to let you return. And I feel like one of those reasons has been outlined here. The advice you are giving is not only bad, but it makes people feel dependant on steroids. Thanks Ross.

Chris

Elite Fitness is a STEROID & BODYBUILDING FORUM.

LOSING MUSCLE MASS IS UNACCEPTABLE!

Nelson says: "Face it. You, me, and most everyone here will never be a pro. Stop using steroids like you're one!"

Who the HECK is advising people to use steroids like a PRO? 400mgs of Primobolan is FAR from a heavy cycle.

Unless you weigh 150lbs and you have virtually no training experience, anyone who tries to reduce their calories and increase cardio in a calorie defecit will LOSE MUSCLE MASS.

If you are even remotely over your natural limit, anabolic steroids are not only required when attempting to reduce bodyfat by entering a caloric defecit, they are even required to MAINTAIN your lean muscle mass when eating a calorie surplus.

 

[Ross]

Bro....you're telling people that theres no physical way to maintain any kind of muscle, while trying to lean out, without steroids.

Thats is bad advice!! Just because you seem dependant on steroids to accomplish your fitness goals doesn't mean thats the advice you give to everyone else!

You need to be directing people to the Diet & Nutrition board for this shit man. You're exactly part of whats wrong with the world today. The only way you feel like you can do it...is the easy, steroid way. I'm sorry.

Chris

What are your stats and how many cycles have you ran?

Maybe I am overestimating the level of development on this forum, Elite Fitness used to have some bad ass bro's, are you saying everyone here is a complete NEWBIE???

 

[Big_BK]

You do remember Arnold said: "I only use Anabolic Steroids when dieting in preperation for a contest, so that I don't lose my muscle".

Arnold also said real men drink only beer. Let's not base things off what pro's have said. Now before this goes any further I'd like to see some studies thrown up by all the mudslingers in here. This he says she says bullshit is not cutting it, lets see some facts not "what i say is right and you are wrong"

 

[Big_BK]

What are your stats and how many cycles have you ran?

Maybe I am overesitmating the level of devlopment on this forum, Elite Fitness used to have some bad ass bro's, are you saying everyone here is a complete NEWBIE???

Why does his personal experience reflect his knowledge of bodybuilding. If you lined up 50 trainers from all of the highest paid athletes would you say this about them just because they coach others then try and do things them self?

 

[khemix]

What are your stats and how many cycles have you ran?

Maybe I am overesitmating the level of devlopment on this forum, Elite Fitness used to have some bad ass bro's, are you saying everyone here is a complete NEWBIE???

Stats:
6'2
195lbs
<7%bf

I've been a hardcore ecto all my life and if I dip much below 4000cals I start to lose weight.

I've ran 5 cycles. Ive been through 2 major injuries (detached tendons and slipped disks). I slipped 2 disks in my spine aprx 14 months ago. Thats the ONLY reason I'm not heavier.

You dont understand how Elite is NOW. You're talking about how it USE to be. There are A LOT more noobs here than there are anything else, and those are the guys im looking out for. You are in a position that has great influence upon people, especially the new guys. And I know if I were a new guy and didn't know anything, and just went by your pics, I'd definantly listen to you.

And thats what worries me. A man that tells people that they CANNOT maintain any kind of muscle while leaning out is not looking out for the new guys. That is NOT good advice. That is NOT what we need here at Elite.

Oh and so you know, now'a'days on elite, we try to advize very very moderate steroid use. Back when you use to be here steroid abuse was much, much more rampant. Not to mention much more accepted.

 

[Ross]

Why does his personal experience reflect his knowledge of bodybuilding. If you lined up 50 trainers from all of the highest paid athletes would you say this about them just because they coach others then try and do things them self?

Because if he has only run 1 cycle and weighs under 180lbs, then NO, he does not need AAS to CUT, because he is not a STEROID USER.

A STEROID USER is someone who has ran MULTIPLE cycles and has reached a superior level of physical development, typically weighing over 200lbs at 10% bodyfat, and being able to Bench Press at least 275-315lbs 6-8 times.

So, if you are NOT over 200lbs at 10%BF and you can NOT Bench Press at least 275lbs, then you do NOT NEED AAS to CUT.

 

[Big_BK]

Because if he has only run 1 cycle and weighs under 180lbs, then NO, he does not need AAS to CUT, because he is not a STEROID USER.

A STEROID USER is someone who has ran MULTIPLE cycles and has reached a superior level of physical development, typically weighing over 200lbs at 10% bodyfat, and being able to Bench Press at least 275-315lbs 6-8 times.

So, if you are NOT over 200lbs at 10%BF and you can NOT Bench Press at least 275lbs, then you do NOT NEED AAS to CUT.

See, this right here further proves my point. What the fuck kind of logic is this? You said earlier that you did a cut without aas and lost way to much mass right? What was your pre and post cut weight and your diet? I'm assuming everything was spot on if you are such an advance bodybuilder and know much more then us.

 

[tdidd42]

See, this right here further proves my point. What the fuck kind of logic is this? You said earlier that you did a cut without aas and lost way to much mass right? What was your pre and post cut weight and your diet? I'm assuming everything was spot on if you are such an advance bodybuilder and know much more then us.

douche bag! and i can beat u up

 

[juggy54]

I believe that many guys (rec aas users) take cutter cycles to the extreme.......ive seen crazy amounts of aas...more than i sometimes use when bulking. guys stacking test p/var/mast/win. Hell if your not going to go on stage why all that shit? If i ever run a "cutter cycle" it will a low dose of test. Why? because i dont need the hardening effects, im not worried about water/bloat ect. I am a rec aas user!!

 

[aquatic_glories]

what exactly did you mean in here??? Of course we are gonna have more muscle then when we started. We can train naturally at that time and have more muscle than we started.
Do you mean much more muscle??? Or if you mean otherwise, why should we lose muscle??

thanks

bump for Nelson

 

[chazk]

Because if he has only run 1 cycle and weighs under 180lbs, then NO, he does not need AAS to CUT, because he is not a STEROID USER.

A STEROID USER is someone who has ran MULTIPLE cycles and has reached a superior level of physical development, typically weighing over 200lbs at 10% bodyfat, and being able to Bench Press at least 275-315lbs 6-8 times.

So, if you are NOT over 200lbs at 10%BF and you can NOT Bench Press at least 275lbs, then you do NOT NEED AAS to CUT.

I'll take it you didn't know lee priest competes under 200lbs . and he is a freak

Franco columbu was not over 200lbs nor was zane and dickerson
all three of them held mr olyimpia titles
lee labrada came in a close second at 190lbs

 

[aquatic_glories]

I'll take it you didn't know lee priest competes under 200lbs .
Franco columbu was not over 200lbs ether.

why do you give 4-feet guys as an example??

 

[Big_BK]

why do you give 4-feet guys as an example??

To show that you don't need to bench 275 for reps and be over 200 to be a steroid user.

 

[aquatic_glories]

To show that you don't need to bench 275 for reps and be over 200 to be a steroid user.

you can show rare options for everything. of course you dont need to be 200 while being 4-feet

 

[chazk]

To show that you don't need to bench 275 for reps and be over 200 to be a steroid user.

exactly , zane was 5'9 dickerson was 5'7
labrada was 5'5 and priest was 5'3

but bigbk hit the nail on the head. To prove a point . Bodybuilders come in all shapes and sizes

 

[aquatic_glories]

plus colombu's lifts were definitely more than What Ross said
dunno the others

 

[aquatic_glories]

plus colombu's lifts were definitely more than What Ross said
dunno the others

Colombu was repping 3 plates easily even in his forties (posted on error)

 

[khemix]

I'm waiting...

 

[chazk]

a little bit about franco
http://www.criticalbench.com/Franco-Columbu.htm

bench press 520lbs
deadlift 750lbs
squat 655lbs

5'5 and under 200lbs .

 

[aquatic_glories]

so strengthwise he is much over that as i said.
For the size, they weren't using gear like today's pro's plus aesthetic was important during that time too. Plus he is very short. The average juicer's height isn't 4 feet.
Also olympia was divided to -200 +200 group.

 

[chazk]

Elite Fitness is a STEROID & BODYBUILDING FORUM. LOSING MUSCLE MASS IS UNACCEPTABLE! The whole point of using steroids, as Nelson stated, is TO GROW MUSCLE.

Nelson says: "Face it. You, me, and most everyone here will never be a pro. Stop using steroids like you're one!"


You do remember Arnold said: "I only use Anabolic Steroids when dieting in preperation for a contest, so that I don't lose my muscle".

arnold said " I use steroids to polish a already perfect physic to just add the finishing touches "
back in the 70's bodybuilders stayed lean and fairly smaller year long theywould only hit a cycle 3 months out from a contest to bulk up for the show. Just the opposite as today.
So in essence , when you see pumping Iron arnold was pumping up and bulking to his maximum potential and trained 6days a week to stay lean and bring out definition. Then later in the year arnold backed off the weights and became fairly soft . As we have seen in pictures over the years

 

[aquatic_glories]

Arnold was full of lies. If he was only using for cutting and gaining mass naturally, that means he wasnt over his genetic limits at the contests ROFL
so maybe he should have competed at 320 pounds if he juiced while gaining mass

 

[Tatyana]

Try entering a calorie defecit and performing increased cardio while NOT ANY ANABOLIC STEROIDS; you will LOSE MUSCLE, plain and simple.

When I am dropping bodyfat, my cutting cycles consist of a minimum dosage of testosterone(200-300mgs) in conjunction with a secondary anabolic such as Primobolan or Masteron, and perhaps an oral to facilitate hardness and vascularity, such as Anavar or Winstrol.

Furthermore, certain steroids DRASTICALLY INCREASE MUSCLE HARDNESS(Masteron, Tren, Winstrol, Anavar, Halotestin), so these steroids are best utilized while the bodyfat percentage is low, so these effects can be seen.

However, I do agree with you Nelson that the primary purpose of Anabolic Steroids is to BUILD MUSCLE MASS, and guys trying to "CUT" for their first cycle or "lean bulk" without having sufficient mass is just ridiculous.

LOLOLOLOLO, insulin is the most anabolic hormone in the body, and any good competive nattie knows how to manipulate insulin and GH naturally so that this doesn't happen.

 

[needtogetaas]

I would like to point out to some of you that we have a standard on ef now. I will not allow this standard to fall. We do not fight and act like kids. We do not call people names or give them the finger here on the aas board.

Like it or not you will abide by this standard or we will show you the door.

 

[gjohnson5]

Because if he has only run 1 cycle and weighs under 180lbs, then NO, he does not need AAS to CUT, because he is not a STEROID USER.

A STEROID USER is someone who has ran MULTIPLE cycles and has reached a superior level of physical development, typically weighing over 200lbs at 10% bodyfat, and being able to Bench Press at least 275-315lbs 6-8 times.

So, if you are NOT over 200lbs at 10%BF and you can NOT Bench Press at least 275lbs, then you do NOT NEED AAS to CUT.

The part bold is impossible natty as well?

 

[juiceddreadlocks]

LOLOLOLOLO, insulin is the most anabolic hormone in the body, and any good competive nattie knows how to manipulate insulin and GH naturally so that this doesn't happen.

el lolio @ that. You're still going to lose some muscle, plain and simple.

 

[gjohnson5]

el lolio @ that. You're still going to lose some muscle, plain and simple.

The problem I have is that we're replacing diet and cardio with drug use
And we're basically saying achieving goals is impossible natty. Well that what Ross says...

I disagree with both his scenarios that "significant muscle will be lost" dieting and "someone cannot bench be 200lb @10% and bench 275" I would say that lkeeping muscle mass while dieting is very hard. Bench 275 @ 200lb 10% is somewhat difficuly. But muscle mass losses can be minimized with the protocols I've mentioned before.

1. Slower digesting proteins and complex carbohydrates to keep some insulin elevation in the blood for extended periods
2, High protein and high fiber to feed muscle and help the proteins digest
3. Clean nutrient dense calories and say 200 calories below Basal Metabolic Rate otherwise
4. Cardio @ the 65% VO2MAX level to at most 90 minutes has shown in studies to maximize fat loss while not negatively affecting muscle mass.

I guess what I was trying to say is that cardio does not have to be destructive. We should not be sending the message that we can simply ignore diet and cardio and let drugs do all the work. The drugs should be used after you have mastered the 2 and have reached your natural potential

 

[Donnie Darko]

Some people can stay somewhat lean while bulking. It may not be near contest lean, but by no means Lee Priest going nuts on a pizza buffet either.

 

[OMEGA]

Im a big boy and not very pretty but can destroy 99.9999% of humans

 

[gjohnson5]

Im a big boy and not very pretty but can destroy 99.9999% of humans

pretty ugly?

 

[gjohnson5]

Gues that why it's called StanozoLOL

 

[OMEGA]

pretty ugly?

yeah I guess

 

[juiceddreadlocks]

The problem I have is that we're replacing diet and cardio with drug use
And we're basically saying achieving goals is impossible natty. Well that what Ross says...

I disagree with both his scenarios that "significant muscle will be lost" dieting and "someone cannot bench be 200lb @10% and bench 275" I would say that lkeeping muscle mass while dieting is very hard. Bench 275 @ 200lb 10% is somewhat difficuly. But muscle mass losses can be minimized with the protocols I've mentioned before.

1. Slower digesting proteins and complex carbohydrates to keep some insulin elevation in the blood for extended periods
2, High protein and high fiber to feed muscle and help the proteins digest
3. Clean nutrient dense calories and say 200 calories below Basal Metabolic Rate otherwise
4. Cardio @ the 65% VO2MAX level to at most 90 minutes has shown in studies to maximize fat loss while not negatively affecting muscle mass.

I guess what I was trying to say is that cardio does not have to be destructive. We should not be sending the message that we can simply ignore diet and cardio and let drugs do all the work. The drugs should be used after you have mastered the 2 and have reached your natural potential

I agree with everything you said here, especially the last part. Berardi has a good article on T-nation talking about exactly what you said here. His number was I think 60% of max HR though.

 

[xrsist]

post 126..

ross
If I even attempted to reduce my calories and incorporate cardiovascular activity in to my regimen without the use of anabolic steroids, I would lose a SIGNIFICANT amount of lean muscle tissue; I have done it before, and I am NOT willing to do it again.

............................................

nelson
THAT"S BECAUSE YOU DON:T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING. DUDE, YOU HAVE AMAZING GENETICS, BUT YOU"VE BEEN ON GEAR PRETTY MUCH NON STOP SINCE YOU"RE 20 YEARS OLD. BETWEN THE TWO, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW HOW TO GET RESULTS WITHOUT STEROIDS AND YOU SURE DON'T KNOW HOW TO ADVISE A HARDGAINER.

 

[Tatyana]

I am defo not a hardgainer, but I have comp prepped and put ON lean tissue.

My calories were between 1800-2200 (I could check, I have records).

My first qualifier I was 57 kg at about 12 % bodyfat, my last comp of the season I was 60 kg at 8-9% bodyfat.

I am not the only nattie to do this.

Some of you think that testosterone is the only way that muscle grows, not so.

Gherelin, the hunger hormone is one of the most potent stimulator of growth hormone. Oestrogen is also a secretagogue of GH.

One of the ways that testosterone works is to prime cells for increased protein synthesis (via heat shock proteins), which can also be attained with a well timed carb/protein drink (albeit to a lesser effect).

I do think far too many of you have been brainwashed thinking the drugs are necessary.

I know a few UK bber who had to come off the gear for a short period of time, and realised that they had been using gear to make up for short comings in their diet and/or training.

Some of you really don't know what you are missing in obtaining your genetic potential if you think that it is only gear use.

Personally, I like this, it gives me that fire in my belly to do that 'Oh yah, well, I guess I will have to demonstrate this'.

 

[Ross]

I'll take it you didn't know lee priest competes under 200lbs . and he is a freak

Franco columbu was not over 200lbs nor was zane and dickerson
all three of them held mr olyimpia titles
lee labrada came in a close second at 190lbs

AND THEY USED Anabolic Steroids while CUTTING! LOL

Obviously those figures I used were merely hypothetical, but my point remains; if you are a STEROID USER(several cycles under your belt) than you will require anabolic steroids for an OPTIMUM CUTTING CYCLE.

 

[Ross]

post 126..

ross
If I even attempted to reduce my calories and incorporate cardiovascular activity in to my regimen without the use of anabolic steroids, I would lose a SIGNIFICANT amount of lean muscle tissue; I have done it before, and I am NOT willing to do it again.

............................................

nelson
THAT"S BECAUSE YOU DON:T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING. DUDE, YOU HAVE AMAZING GENETICS, BUT YOU"VE BEEN ON GEAR PRETTY MUCH NON STOP SINCE YOU"RE 20 YEARS OLD. BETWEN THE TWO, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW HOW TO GET RESULTS WITHOUT STEROIDS AND YOU SURE DON'T KNOW HOW TO ADVISE A HARDGAINER.

You really believe I dont know what I am doing?

www.Myspace.com/RossErstling

 

[LoneTree]

People are trying to bark up on the 'terminology'.
Whether you call it 'bulker' or 'cutter', it is still AAS. It has the same effect whatever you call it.

I want to get big (God! I want it so bad). BUT I WANT MUSCLE, NOT FAT.
If you eat excess calories (more than you need to build muscle), you will form fat. I ate too much in my last cycle, and I developed extra fat.
Excess calories = excess fat.

I don't know which method is better: First to bulk and then cut, or have a 'lean cycle' (you just eat enough protein and calories to build muscle, without getting fat). Probably different methods work for different pdople.

If you don't want to get fat, you can not eat too many calories.
If you want to lose fat, you have to cut calories.
If you lose weigt rapidly, you will lose some muscle.
If you take AAS at the same time, that will prevent significant muscle loss, while still losing fat.

These are simple facts. If you don't agree with it, too bad.

 

[nzrodney]

You DO NOT need gear to be a competative BBer & you can go into a reduced calorie diet but you WILL LOSE a % of muscle mass.
If you use gear as a competative BBer YOU WILL RETAIN MORE muscle mass while in a reduced calorie diet plan.
Example:
On my Pacific Island we have two competative BBing Competition groups. Federation & NABBA. Federation is drug tested & most competitors will be drug free well before a competition. NABBA is not drug tested. On stage it is clearly obvious who those competitors using gear are leading up to a comp. You just cannot get the definition, fullness, hardness & muscle size & lean body mass without some AAS & ancillaries. Everyone must make their own choice. I choose NABBA

 

[Nelson Montana]

AND THEY USED Anabolic Steroids while CUTTING! LOL

Obviously those figures I used were merely hypothetical, but my point remains; if you are a STEROID USER(several cycles under your belt) than you will require anabolic steroids for an OPTIMUM CUTTING CYCLE.

This statement makes no sense. Someone who used steroids will lose more muscle than someone who does not?

 

[Nelson Montana]

You really believe I dont know what I am doing?

As far as giving advice, YES.

I saw your pics when you were a teenager Ross. I'll give it up to you, you've got great genetics. Nobody builds a great frame from knowledge. That's god-given.

As far as how much muscle you've put on with gear in inconsequential. You look good bro. But I see hundreds of guys as big as you every day.

Anyone can take gear and work out. That doesn't mean they know it all and it certainly doesn't mean they know how to best advise people. How can you endorse a product that obviously has nothing to do with your progress? I had to bust my ass for years to gain every ounce of muscle. But I learned how. I competed on dosages you would consider "bridging."

So I guess the difference here is; you see steroid use as a lifestyle. I see it as an occasional aid to bodybuilding pursuits. But irrespective of our differences, it doesn't change certain realities. And the reality is; steroids are growth drugs. That's what they're designed to do and that's what they do best.

 

[Cardinal Slin]

Over the last few days I quietly sat back and ignored this thread but after 17 pages of posts I thought I would chime in.

Honestly, I am not pinpointing anyone with this post but what makes someone capable of giving out advice on steroid use and then claiming to be the einstein of aas use?

Basically there are only two components and they are:

Reading about it so much over a long period of time (from posts and studies which anyone can do) and reading what works for everyone and following the 'suggested norm' (which is information acquired) and anyone can become knowlegable

or

Doing a number of cycles and learning what works for a particular individual which again 'he did this and got those results does not me she does that and gets the same results.

So why are some people so respected on this board and others are not?

Is it because they have been more visible than others and feel the need to reply to everything single post so their post count reads in to the 1000's and 1000's?

Is it because they have lots of green flashing stars and boxes by their names?

Is it because they have been with the same username for the last 10 years so people assume they must know everything?

Personally I don't care, I inject, I train, I am getting bigger.

I do not claim to be a professional and I do not claim to be huge, but I am slowly working on getting there and have over the last decade experimented with most substances and almost all kinds of steroid - does that make me special? NO but more often than not I can give my opinion on what has worked for me and what hasn't.

I bet half the people who post on here and provide advice would never post a photo of themselves cause they feel they are too small and will not be taken seriously if people saw how small they were - but again - what does size have to do with knowledge.

Anyone can use steroids and get quite big, but that is only a small part of the equation. A lot of people do not have the discipline or dedication needed to get big.

Should I use this or should I use that - don't do this but do that, take this but don't take that - train like this, not like that - seriously what ever.

Any smart 13 year old can read 50 medical studies on testosterone or some other steroid and then talk about it like an experienced professional but would that information being passed on mean anything?

Food for thought

 

[Cardinal Slin]

There are so many people kissing so much ass to others in here.
[/B]

+ 10,000

 

[Nelson Montana]

Over the last few days I quietly sat back and ignored this thread but after 17 pages of posts I thought I would chime in.

Honestly, I am not pinpointing anyone with this post but what makes someone capable of giving out advice on steroid use and then claiming to be the einstein of aas use?

Basically there are only two components and they are:

Reading about it so much over a long period of time (from posts and studies which anyone can do) and reading what works for everyone and following the 'suggested norm' (which is information acquired) and anyone can become knowlegable

or

Doing a number of cycles and learning what works for a particular individual which again 'he did this and got those results does not me she does that and gets the same results.

So why are some people so respected on this board and others are not?

Is it because they have been more visible than others and feel the need to reply to everything single post so their post count reads in to the 1000's and 1000's?

Is it because they have lots of green flashing stars and boxes by their names?

Is it because they have been with the same username for the last 10 years so people assume they must know everything?

Personally I don't care, I inject, I train, I am getting bigger.

I do not claim to be a professional and I do not claim to be huge, but I am slowly working on getting there and have over the last decade experimented with most substances and almost all kinds of steroid - does that make me special? NO but more often than not I can give my opinion on what has worked for me and what hasn't.

I bet half the people who post on here and provide advice would never post a photo of themselves cause they feel they are too small and will not be taken seriously if people saw how small they were - but again - what does size have to do with knowledge.

Anyone can use steroids and get quite big, but that is only a small part of the equation. A lot of people do not have the discipline or dedication needed to get big.

Should I use this or should I use that - don't do this but do that, take this but don't take that - train like this, not like that - seriously what ever.

Any smart 13 year old can read 50 medical studies on testosterone or some other steroid and then talk about it like an experienced professional but would that information being passed on mean anything?

Food for thought

.





Mmm, not really bro. This ain't bodybuilding.com

We got some guys here who are more than some kid who read a few books or have done a few cycles.

You claim there are only two ways to be an expert on AAS? I may fall into a third.

For example...

I worked with Dan Duchaine, the original mastermind of anabolic use.

I've had access to and spoken with the top doctors and medical experts in the field.

I've conversed with Olympia contenders as well as many of the old timers who were the first to use AAS.

I've had dozens of works published in the field. Outside of the internet, they don't publish just anything that anyone says. You have to know your shit.

I've trained hundreds of people naturally and enhanced.

I've made extraodinary gains with lousy genetics and became a body model at the age of 40 and with tiny dosages placed in top competition.

There's more, but you get the idea.

Not trying to brag here son, just sayin.' To be honest, there are other guys here who are bigger and more muscular than I've ever been. Tatyana is a biophycisist.

So have some respect. Don't think EF is just another sounding board for every nobody who has a computer in his mother's basement. There are some serious people here.

Of course, every once in a while somebody comes along and tries to scam the members into believing they're an expert and they do so but attacking those who really are. It fools some people, but more often than not, the smart ones see right through it.

 

[Cardinal Slin]

In no way was my post aimed or targeted at you Nelson but as stated most people come on here after reading like 100 posts, never having injected anything and then claim or would try and lead others to believe they are guru's.

I was around here back in the day when there were some real good bros around. This was very late 90's early 2000's. Very few still are but that's life after almost a decade I guess.

Oh and the son and have a little respect, a little condescending don't you think? I have been around and what I know was a result of this board.

By the way, a few of my posts from back then are in the best posts of all time forum on this site but I am definitely not going to boast about that - it was acquired knowledge that I gained much of from some of the very humble, experienced people who used to be around back then. I know I still have so much more to learn but honestly am not at the level or want to be at that level that I don't know what I need to in order to achieve the body I want to have.

Everyone is different and I am what would be considered as very hard gainer - at over 6 foot, I began training when I stop growing and was at 140lbs - I am shortly to be reaching 280

I have read a few of your posts and do not or have not infered you are a pencil pusher.

 

[Chocolate_Thunder]

You leave for a few days and come back to find all hell has broken loose.

First, I believe that AAS should be used for growing muscle.

Second, I think Ross is "flip flopping" on a few of the issues in this thread.

Next, Khemix and Gjohnson5 are giving solid advice throughout this thread. I am not kissing their ass just agreeing with what was previously posted from them.

Last, what's with all the trash talking and girlie behavior? STOP!!!

 

[Nelson Montana]

In no way was my post aimed or targeted at you Nelson but as stated most people come on here after reading like 100 posts, never having injected anything and then claim or would try and lead others to believe they are guru's.

I was around here back in the day when there were some real good bros around. This was very late 90's early 2000's. Very few still are but that's life after almost a decade I guess.

Oh and the son and have a little respect, a little condescending don't you think? I have been around and what I know was a result of this board.

By the way, a few of my posts from back then are in the best posts of all time forum on this site but I am definitely not going to boast about that - it was acquired knowledge that I gained much of from some of the very humble, experienced people who used to be around back then. I know I still have so much more to learn but honestly am not at the level or want to be at that level that I don't know what I need to in order to achieve the body I want to have.

Everyone is different and I am what would be considered as very hard gainer - at over 6 foot, I began training when I stop growing and was at 140lbs - I am shortly to be reaching 280

I have read a few of your posts and do not or have not infered you are a pencil pusher.

No offense intended bro. But since I started the thread and Ross was pretty much the one arguing the point, I felt it should be clarified. Everyone is certainly allowed to pass along their personal experiences and yours is welcome as well.

 

[Just Add Muscle]

ps LIPOFLAME + ZIP is well liked yes

LIPOFLAME+ZIP+CYCLOTREN is well liked even more.

 

[halfcenturian]

I'm going fishin'... Peace. Out.

 

[nzrodney]

In no way was my post aimed or targeted at you Nelson but as stated most people come on here after reading like 100 posts, never having injected anything and then claim or would try and lead others to believe they are guru's.

I was around here back in the day when there were some real good bros around. This was very late 90's early 2000's. Very few still are but that's life after almost a decade I guess.

Oh and the son and have a little respect, a little condescending don't you think? I have been around and what I know was a result of this board.

By the way, a few of my posts from back then are in the best posts of all time forum on this site but I am definitely not going to boast about that - it was acquired knowledge that I gained much of from some of the very humble, experienced people who used to be around back then. I know I still have so much more to learn but honestly am not at the level or want to be at that level that I don't know what I need to in order to achieve the body I want to have.

Everyone is different and I am what would be considered as very hard gainer - at over 6 foot, I began training when I stop growing and was at 140lbs - I am shortly to be reaching 280
I have read a few of your posts and do not or have not infered you are a pencil pusher.

Massive effort Slin I believe you may well be big enough now to comment on this site

 

[chuds]

Over the last few days I quietly sat back and ignored this thread but after 17 pages of posts I thought I would chime in.

Honestly, I am not pinpointing anyone with this post but what makes someone capable of giving out advice on steroid use and then claiming to be the einstein of aas use?

Basically there are only two components and they are:

Reading about it so much over a long period of time (from posts and studies which anyone can do) and reading what works for everyone and following the 'suggested norm' (which is information acquired) and anyone can become knowlegable

or

Doing a number of cycles and learning what works for a particular individual which again 'he did this and got those results does not me she does that and gets the same results.

So why are some people so respected on this board and others are not?

Is it because they have been more visible than others and feel the need to reply to everything single post so their post count reads in to the 1000's and 1000's?

Is it because they have lots of green flashing stars and boxes by their names?

Is it because they have been with the same username for the last 10 years so people assume they must know everything?

Personally I don't care, I inject, I train, I am getting bigger.

I do not claim to be a professional and I do not claim to be huge, but I am slowly working on getting there and have over the last decade experimented with most substances and almost all kinds of steroid - does that make me special? NO but more often than not I can give my opinion on what has worked for me and what hasn't.

I bet half the people who post on here and provide advice would never post a photo of themselves cause they feel they are too small and will not be taken seriously if people saw how small they were - but again - what does size have to do with knowledge.

Anyone can use steroids and get quite big, but that is only a small part of the equation. A lot of people do not have the discipline or dedication needed to get big.

Should I use this or should I use that - don't do this but do that, take this but don't take that - train like this, not like that - seriously what ever.

Any smart 13 year old can read 50 medical studies on testosterone or some other steroid and then talk about it like an experienced professional but would that information being passed on mean anything?

Food for thought

+1

 

[BigGuyPHX]

Great post Nelson!!!

But I wonder if anyone got it???

I get these questions in the gym from some of the "bros" and they drive me crazy!!! The funny part is you can tell them the truth BUT they dont want to hear it and keep doing/thinking/saying the same stupid shit.

This is what im really thinking...
"Yea ass-clown stack var, winny, t3 ,t4 t5, t6, t7, throw in some hydroxycut, cut out ALL CARBS AND FAT, do cardio 3 hours 2 times a day, and lean out you taint lickin knob-puffer!"

Cutter cycle... WTF?

Again great post.

BigGuyPHX

 

[mwm5]

Cutter cycle... WTF?

i think what a lot of guys mean when they say "cutter cycle" is they want to GROW off the aas, but they want to only GROW "lean mass." I don't think they mean they want to loose any kind of muscle mass.

so they are wanting to grow mass, just lean clean mass and loose some of the fat.

 

[searay]

i dont understand why it has to be 100% one way or the other. using aas to cut is a waste ? end of story ? i dont think so.....

yes if someone is at a point where they have not reached there genetic potential and uses aas for the first time and attempts to lose weight while on. that would be a waste.

for someone who has done several cycles and has a good amount of mass and wants to strip the body fat off not using aas would be a waste. i dont care how you stack it trying to get down to under 10% bodyfat with no gear after gaining 20+lbs of solid mass over the past couple of years equals a huge loss of muscle mass. ive tried it before and was so depressed with my strength levels that i got off the diet within 4 weeks.

for someone to say that 100% of people who cut bodyfat while on aas suck is fucking lame and what gives you the right to make such a blanket statement. it aint that black and white and anyone who thinks so SUCKS !

 

[Chocolate_Thunder]

i think what a lot of guys mean when they say "cutter cycle" is they want to GROW off the aas, but they want to only GROW "lean mass." I don't think they mean they want to loose any kind of muscle mass.

so they are wanting to grow mass, just lean clean mass and loose some of the fat.

Good post, agreed.

 

[Nelson Montana]

i think what a lot of guys mean when they say "cutter cycle" is they want to GROW off the aas, but they want to only GROW "lean mass." I don't think they mean they want to loose any kind of muscle mass.

so they are wanting to grow mass, just lean clean mass and loose some of the fat.

Yeah, I know. That's what steroids do.

But you can't grow while losing weight and using gear to preserve muscle mass while doing so will spare barely an ounce of muscle.

You DO NOT lose that much muscle while not on sterolids but YOU WILL NOT HAVE THE SAME AMOUNT OF MUSCLE AS WHILE ON STEROIDS,

Read that line again and try to comprehend it.

You you can argue all day long what you have a RIGHT to do. It will not change the facts or the laws of nature.

 

[Just Add Muscle]

Yeah, I know. That's what steroids do.

But you can't grow while losing weight and using gear to preserve muscle mass while doing so will spare barely an ounce of muscle.

You DO NOT lose that much muscle while not on sterolids but YOU WILL NOT HAVE THE SAME AMOUNT OF MUSCLE AS WHILE ON STEROIDS,

Read that line again and try to comprehend it.

You you can argue all day long what you have a RIGHT to do. It will not change the facts or the laws of nature.

Nelson I do not know if you answered me previously or I just missed it but I would like a link to the Big blast product.I am interested in trying it out for my self and maybe stocking it in our store.PM me if its easier for you.

 

[BigGuyPHX]

Yeah, I know. That's what steroids do.

But you can't grow while losing weight and using gear to preserve muscle mass while doing so will spare barely an ounce of muscle.

You DO NOT lose that much muscle while not on sterolids but YOU WILL NOT HAVE THE SAME AMOUNT OF MUSCLE AS WHILE ON STEROIDS,

Read that line again and try to comprehend it.

You you can argue all day long what you have a RIGHT to do. It will not change the facts or the laws of nature.

Again like I said and I quote...
"The funny part is you can tell them the truth BUT they dont want to hear it and keep doing/thinking/saying the same stupid shit."


BigGuy

 

[Nelson Montana]

Nelson I do not know if you answered me previously or I just missed it but I would like a link to the Big blast product.I am interested in trying it out for my self and maybe stocking it in our store.PM me if its easier for you.

Sure bro, here ya go. http://proteinfactory.com/shop/product.php?productid=145&cat=0&page=1

 

[mwm5]

Yeah, I know. That's what steroids do.

But you can't grow while losing weight and using gear to preserve muscle mass while doing so will spare barely an ounce of muscle.
.

i never said lose weight??? when i hear "cutting cycle" i think someone wants to get shredded. can you not get shredded from growing muscle BUT not gaining fat/water retention from a cycle?

 

[halfcenturian]

Great post Nelson!!!

But I wonder if anyone got it???

I get these questions in the gym from some of the "bros" and they drive me crazy!!! The funny part is you can tell them the truth BUT they dont want to hear it and keep doing/thinking/saying the same stupid shit.

This is what im really thinking...
"Yea ass-clown stack var, winny, t3 ,t4 t5, t6, t7, throw in some hydroxycut, cut out ALL CARBS AND FAT, do cardio 3 hours 2 times a day, and lean out you taint lickin knob-puffer!"

Cutter cycle... WTF?

Again great post.

BigGuyPHX

You forgot Lasix... Tell it like it is, brotha! Good to see ya!

 

[BigGuyPHX]

You forgot Lasix... Tell it like it is, brotha! Good to see ya!

Yo halfcenturian wazsup bro... it looks like I got a lot of work to do around here!!! Geez you would think Needto would have mailed me a presonal invite to the TX bash but Nooooooooo he forgot that kick ass weekend party I tried to throw him at the White House last year! (hahaha I think that thread got a few peeps ejected from EF!) RIP Holy Ghost!!!

BigGuy

Squat to ya teabag the floor and shit in the showers!!!

 

[halfcenturian]

Yo halfcenturian wazsup bro... it looks like I got a lot of work to do around here!!! Geez you would think Needto would have mailed me a presonal invite to the TX bash but Nooooooooo he forgot that kick ass weekend party I tried to throw him at the White House last year! (hahaha I think that thread got a few peeps ejected from EF!) RIP Holy Ghost!!!

BigGuy

Squat to ya teabag the floor and shit in the showers!!!

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


You're gonna have to straighten some noobs out...

Buncha cheese dick, whiney punk ass, pole smokin' twinks!

Watch your back, Big Guy. A dozen or more of these guy are cops.

Pretty sure there are one or two Feds on board too. I'm talking fucking FBI, bro.

I got a Bro at ATF who... "looked into it for me." Later!

 

[needtogetaas]

Yo halfcenturian wazsup bro... it looks like I got a lot of work to do around here!!! Geez you would think Needto would have mailed me a presonal invite to the TX bash but Nooooooooo he forgot that kick ass weekend party I tried to throw him at the White House last year! (hahaha I think that thread got a few peeps ejected from EF!) RIP Holy Ghost!!!

BigGuy

Squat to ya teabag the floor and shit in the showers!!!

Bro pm me your invited for sure.

 

[militantunionman]

GO HEAVY OR GO HOME!
I see this post and think you are reading my mind!
When you walk in the gym shut your mouth, pick up some heavy weight and get big!!!
BULKY IS BEAUTIFUL!

 

[Nelson Montana]

i never said lose weight??? when i hear "cutting cycle" i think someone wants to get shredded. can you not get shredded from growing muscle BUT not gaining fat/water retention from a cycle?

What you're describing is what a normal cycle should be. But the drugs don't get you shredded. Diet and exercise does. Come on, how many times have you seen people say they're 16% bf and want to do a "cutter." That means they need to be in a calorie deficit, and in that case, using gear is pretty much a waste other than vanity purposes. Those are the guys who usually look like shit unless they're on something. I've seen it far too many times. But once again, people can do whatever they want.

Here's a strange analogy. Training naturally is like studying but not going to college. You'll still get smarter, but it'll be limited.

Using gear without training and eating correctly is like going to college without studying. You'll maybe get a little smarter but not as much as the former example. It's even more limiting.

But if you both, each compliment the other and you'll be as smart as possible.

Make sense?

 

[Ross]

What you're describing is what a normal cycle should be. But the drugs don't get you shredded. Diet and exercise does. Come on, how many times have you seen people say they're 16% bf and want to do a "cutter." That means they need to be in a calorie deficit, and in that case, using gear is pretty much a waste other than vanity purposes. Those are the guys who usually look like shit unless they're on something. I've seen it far too many times. But once again, people can do whatever they want.

Here's a strange analogy. Training naturally is like studying but not going to college. You'll still get smarter, but it'll be limited.

Using gear without training and eating correctly is like going to college without studying. You'll maybe get a little smarter but not as much as the former example. It's even more limiting.

But if you both, each compliment the other and you'll be as smart as possible.

Make sense?

Failure to maintain any anabolic/androgenic support while cutting will inevitably result in muscle loss, which you admit, is unacceptable.

My friend who has been training for 10 years and has about 5 cycles under his belt, approached me the other day and asked me what type of cycle he should run when DIETING...

I told him:

"At your size, you'll definitely need a low dosage of Testosterone in order to preserve all of that muscle mass and strength in a calorie defecit. To further ensure minimal muscle loss and possible muscle GAIN while in a calorie defecit, include a low dosage of Primobolan throughout the cycle."

Plain and simple. "Cutting" without steroids is like "Bulking" with JUNK FOOD; When BULKING on junkfood, you'll gain muscle, but also ALOT OF FAT! When CUTTING without steroids, you'll lose fat, but also ALOT OF MUSCLE!

For an advanced trainer like myself, I need anabolic support even when eating MAINTENANCE calories, because I am so far past my natural limit. Basically, I have to stay on pretty much year-round to maintain this amount of muscle mass.

 

[nzrodney]

What Ross is saying is you use gear like anavar, clen, winny, masteron TO PRESERVE MUSCLE MASS in a calorie deficient diet. Its not about using steriods to "Cut".

 

[gjohnson5]

What Ross is saying is you use gear like anavar, clen, winny, masteron TO PRESERVE MUSCLE MASS in a calorie deficient diet. Its not about using steriods to "Cut".

Ross needs to learn how to preserve muscle mass with diet...
He makes a caloric deficit sounds like a death sentence...

 

[nzrodney]

Ross needs to learn how to preserve muscle mass with diet...
He makes a caloric deficit sounds like a death sentence...

Yes Bro you are still not going anywhere unless you have your diet & cardio dialed in. Also, I believe that its not so much about jumping on the crosstrainer or stepper for an hour or two, but just increasing the intensity of your resistance work. Too much cardio will eventually eat into your muscle mass so I prefer more intense relatively heavy workouts with 30secs to 1 min rest between sets.

 

[mwm5]

Make sense?

i get what both sides of the arguement are saying .

i think word choice in this debate is the key issue.