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Every Time I Watch Whale Wars

musclemom

musclemom

I Told You So ...
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I get mad at Japan. I simply can't help it.

WTF is with their culture and thinking they need to eat every fucking thing on this planet? And MUST they kill animals in the most callous, horrifyingly slow and painful way there is? Have you seen what they do to sharks for sharkfin soup? And the drive hunting of dolphins?

Nobody in an industrialized nation needs to eat dolphins, sharkfins or whales.
 
musclemom said:
I get mad at Japan. I simply can't help it.

WTF is with their culture and thinking they need to eat every fucking thing on this planet? And MUST they kill animals in the most callous, horrifyingly slow and painful way there is? Have you seen what they do to sharks for sharkfin soup? And the drive hunting of dolphins?

Nobody in an industrialized nation needs to eat dolphins, sharkfins or whales.
Click to expand...

You've probably already checked out the website, but here it is anyway :)

Sea Shepherd

I have the greatest repect for anybody who puts their life on the line to protect the vulnerable. Really, what chance does the ocean and its inhabitants have unless someone will speak for them?

Only when the last tree has died
and the last river been poisoned
and the last fish been caught
will we realise we cannot eat money

Cree Proverb
 
trex74 said:
You've probably already checked out the website, but here it is anyway :)

Sea Shepherd

I have the greatest repect for anybody who puts their life on the line to protect the vulnerable. Really, what chance does the ocean and its inhabitants have unless someone will speak for them?

Only when the last tree has died
and the last river been poisoned
and the last fish been caught
will we realise we cannot eat money

Cree Proverb
Click to expand...
One thing I'll definitely agree with the Bible on: "For the love of money is the root of all evil."

Every time I try to have hope for humans something reminds me what shits we can be.
 
Used to watch that show.

I got bored of them talking about how they were such badass rebels right before they would throw stink bombs onto a boat then shrus and say there's nothing more they can do.

lol last season when the nips started chasing them with the ray gun.
 
Used to watch that show.

I got bored of them talking about how they were such badass rebels right before they would throw stink bombs onto a boat then shrus and say there's nothing more they can do.

lol last season when the nips started chasing them with the ray gun.
 
i watched that show a few weeks ago..I had to laugh when the japs sent out a seperate ship just to chase the sea sheperd so the other ships could continue whaling.

pwnt!
 
75th said:
Used to watch that show.

I got bored of them talking about how they were such badass rebels right before they would throw stink bombs onto a boat then shrus and say there's nothing more they can do.

lol last season when the nips started chasing them with the ray gun.
Click to expand...
They're under a flag of a nation, anything worthwhile (guns, grenades, rocket launcher, mines, bombs) is a act of piracy or war. They're hearts are in the right place but their hands are tied. All they can do is be annoying.

I have to agree with you, they're not a bunch of bad-asses. They're a bunch of volunteers who care but are badly organized and not paramilitary.

The Animal Planet series is the best thing they could do, at least it's bringing it to the public attention. I honestly thought that it was illegal for everyone but native people using traditional methods to hunt whales.
 
I feel the same way about celery and licorice. I should go block the entrance of a licorice factory.

:)
 
mrplunkey said:
I feel the same way about celery and licorice. I should go block the entrance of a licorice factory.

:)
Click to expand...
Killing is one thing, but killing with no regard for compassion, ecological balance, and most importantly, killing animals that don't need to be killed? Intelligent animals with a complex social structure, a concept of community? That's just soulless.
 
The International Whaling Commission is strictly voluntary. Be nice if the IWC had something akin to NATO's Peacekeepers. Still, a nation could just withdraw from the IWC and do as they please, provided they kill whales only in international waters.
 
cryptosporidium said:
i always wonder why sea sheppard doesnt get more funding..
Click to expand...
They get private donations, the problem is nothing about boats or helicopters is cheap and the Arctic Sanctuary isn't the only place they work.

The Ady Gill boat that sunk cost about 3 million, the Bob Barker was purchased with a $5 million donation and that thing is like 60 years old. At least one of the little boats cost $100G (which I can't understand, that seems awfully high to me). Then you got fuel (BIIGGG money, I think they said to run it 20 days cost about $75Gs) food, maintenance. Boats are a hole in the water you pour money into. There's a reason yachts belong to rich people. Taking a big boat with a crew out to sea is not cheap.
 
musclemom said:
They get private donations, the problem is nothing about boats or helicopters is cheap and the Arctic Sanctuary isn't the only place they work.

The Ady Gill boat that sunk cost about 3 million, the Bob Barker was purchased with a $5 million donation and that thing is like 60 years old. At least one of the little boats cost $100G (which I can't understand, that seems awfully high to me). Then you got fuel (BIIGGG money, I think they said to run it 20 days cost about $75Gs) food, maintenance. Boats are a hole in the water you pour money into. There's a reason yachts belong to rich people. Taking a big boat with a crew out to sea is not cheap.
Click to expand...

one of my buddies back home has one of those cigarette boats (a scarab maybe)...it's like 38' long and has two 800 or 900 hp big blocks in it...at full throttle it will go just a touch under 100 mph...it has two 100 gallon fuel tanks...at full throttle he can drain them both in about 25 minutes...yeah, boats are kind of expensive to operate.
 
In principal I agree with the sea sheppards but not entirely for the reasons they do it and most of them annoy me to no end. I'm astounded that nothing has happened to them up there with how amateurish they are. What that moron did last night with that oxygen torch is one of the single stupidest things I've seen a human being do and that would EASILY have garnered a darwin award if he offed himself. When the sea sheppard crew is like "dude, wtf are you doing asshole?"....you know you're a moron. Can anyone even explain to me what his endgoal was putting that torch tip in the end of that grinder? I'm no fabricator but turning on a 5000 degree torch and then putting the tip into a spooled up grinder....I'm lost, I really am. Maybe I'm not smart enough to understand the engineering concept behing that bond move. If I had the know how I would totally get that video and overlay the bond music and put it on youtube with the caption at the end.....what did you think was going to happen?
 
Ya. lol @ them all worried because they pointed the sound at the helicopter.
 
They need to go pirate and start neutron bombing some bishes.
 
musclemom said:
Killing is one thing, but killing with no regard for compassion, ecological balance, and most importantly, killing animals that don't need to be killed? Intelligent animals with a complex social structure, a concept of community? That's just soulless.
Click to expand...
I agree. Some people will just never understand this balance. Life feeds off life, giving a life in order for another to live should be respected. I guess that's too sentimental for people with a sense of entitlement to understand.
 
musclemom said:
They get private donations, the problem is nothing about boats or helicopters is cheap and the Arctic Sanctuary isn't the only place they work.

The Ady Gill boat that sunk cost about 3 million, the Bob Barker was purchased with a $5 million donation and that thing is like 60 years old. At least one of the little boats cost $100G (which I can't understand, that seems awfully high to me). Then you got fuel (BIIGGG money, I think they said to run it 20 days cost about $75Gs) food, maintenance. Boats are a hole in the water you pour money into. There's a reason yachts belong to rich people. Taking a big boat with a crew out to sea is not cheap.
Click to expand...

i'd like to see their annual operating costs. i would figure lots of rich entrepreneurs and celebs would help fund them.
 
I'm not for killing whales, but I think what they are doing is bullshit. They are legally allowed to take the whales. How would you feel if someone went to your work and started throwing stink bombs at you and doing everything in their power to make your job more difficult? You'd be pretty fucking pissed.

Who are we to shit on their culture just because we don't agree with it? India views cows as sacred animals, how would you feel if a bunch of Indians came over and started tossing stink bombs at cattle farms? It's the same logic, but it's our culture so we're willing to defend it.
 
redshirt27se said:
I'm not for killing whales, but I think what they are doing is bullshit. They are legally allowed to take the whales. How would you feel if someone went to your work and started throwing stink bombs at you and doing everything in their power to make your job more difficult? You'd be pretty fucking pissed.

Who are we to shit on their culture just because we don't agree with it? India views cows as sacred animals, how would you feel if a bunch of Indians came over and started tossing stink bombs at cattle farms? It's the same logic, but it's our culture so we're willing to defend it.
Click to expand...
No, they are NOT.

They are hunting whales, in A REFUGE, under the premise of performing research. Through a loophole in international law, animals killed for the sake of research can be sold as meat.

You can't juxtapose the Hindu reverence for the cow against our eating beef. For that matter, you probably don't even know why they view them as sacred. This isn't cultural, this is geopolitical and one of the big problems is that none of the heavy hitters wants to get involved because of fear of losing out on trade agreements with Japan. And, frankly, you can't compare a whale to a cow. You can kill a cow damned quick and with virtually no fear or pain if the slaughterhouse is well designed. It generally takes an hour or so to kill these whales. It's death by slow drowning.

In the final analysis, nobody needs to be killing whales to survive. This is about profits, nothing more.
 
musclemom said:
Killing is one thing, but killing with no regard for compassion, ecological balance, and most importantly, killing animals that don't need to be killed? Intelligent animals with a complex social structure, a concept of community? That's just soulless.
Click to expand...



I agree again

they should be penalized heavily for what they do
 
redshirt27se said:
I'm not for killing whales, but I think what they are doing is bullshit. They are legally allowed to take the whales. How would you feel if someone went to your work and started throwing stink bombs at you and doing everything in their power to make your job more difficult? You'd be pretty fucking pissed.

Who are we to shit on their culture just because we don't agree with it? India views cows as sacred animals, how would you feel if a bunch of Indians came over and started tossing stink bombs at cattle farms? It's the same logic, but it's our culture so we're willing to defend it.
Click to expand...

Actually since 1986 there has been an international moratorium on whaling. It is not legal to hunt whales commercially, so the Japanese are acting illegally. They pretend they are whaling for scientific research, when in fact they are eating them. It's not exactly fair to compare a wild species at risk, to cattle which are bred for consumption. Apples and oranges.
Two of my cousins are half Japanese, live in Japan half the year, and they would never eat whales, it's disgusting to them. It's not part of their culture any more, no more than slavery is part of American culture.

If you are looking for unbiased information:

Cetaceans: Whales, Dolphins, and Porpoises - Office of Protected Resources - NOAA Fisheries

Status of whale populations
 
there isnt a govt that enforces these laws near antarctica, thats why sea sheppard is operating in those waters. the situation shouldnt have been allowed to go this far.
 
musclemom said:
Killing is one thing, but killing with no regard for compassion, ecological balance, and most importantly, killing animals that don't need to be killed? Intelligent animals with a complex social structure, a concept of community? That's just soulless.
Click to expand...

Are you talking about cows? Ducks? Pigs?
 
musclemom said:
No, they are NOT.

They are hunting whales, in A REFUGE, under the premise of performing research. Through a loophole in international law, animals killed for the sake of research can be sold as meat.

You can't juxtapose the Hindu reverence for the cow against our eating beef. For that matter, you probably don't even know why they view them as sacred. This isn't cultural, this is geopolitical and one of the big problems is that none of the heavy hitters wants to get involved because of fear of losing out on trade agreements with Japan. And, frankly, you can't compare a whale to a cow. You can kill a cow damned quick and with virtually no fear or pain if the slaughterhouse is well designed. It generally takes an hour or so to kill these whales. It's death by slow drowning.

In the final analysis, nobody needs to be killing whales to survive. This is about profits, nothing more.
Click to expand...

Did the Japanese sign-off and agree not to kill whales?

If so, did they realize the loophole was there?

Why not close the loophole via international law?
 
mrplunkey said:
Are you talking about cows? Ducks? Pigs?
Click to expand...
From my perspective, killing cetaceans is different from killing animals raised for slaughter for a number of reasons. As far as I'm concerned, one of the more important ones:

It is IMPOSSIBLE to guarantee a relatively quick, painless death. Due to the size of the animals being killed, the medium they live in, the fact the boat, harpoon and whales are moving, in fact, there is a very good chance that quite a few of them are conscious when they're winched onto the boat and the slaughter process begins. The fact is, biologists aren't really sure. Many of the recent studies that have been performed have been by countries that have a vested interest in the continuation of whaling.

From a wholistic perspective, I don't believe enough is understood about the ecology of the ocean to risk messing around with something so large that makes such a heavy impact.

Whales don't reproduce like deer or rats. It takes years for a baby whale to grow to maturity, and nobody really knows how long they may live if left alone. There have been whales that the Inuits have killed in recent hunts that they found harpoon heads embedded in, the style of these points dated from the 1800s (oh, and before anyone brings up the whole "Well inuits kill them" inuits have to use traditional harpoons and boats. Big difference from bomb tipped harpoons and factory ships).
 
musclemom said:
From my perspective, killing cetaceans is different from killing animals raised for slaughter for a number of reasons. As far as I'm concerned, one of the more important ones:

It is IMPOSSIBLE to guarantee a relatively quick, painless death. Due to the size of the animals being killed, the medium they live in, the fact the boat, harpoon and whales are moving, in fact, there is a very good chance that quite a few of them are conscious when they're winched onto the boat and the slaughter process begins. The fact is, biologists aren't really sure. Many of the recent studies that have been performed have been by countries that have a vested interest in the continuation of whaling.

From a wholistic perspective, I don't believe enough is understood about the ecology of the ocean to risk messing around with something so large that makes such a heavy impact.

Whales don't reproduce like deer or rats. It takes years for a baby whale to grow to maturity, and nobody really knows how long they may live if left alone. There have been whales that the Inuits have killed in recent hunts that they found harpoon heads embedded in, the style of these points dated from the 1800s (oh, and before anyone brings up the whole "Well inuits kill them" inuits have to use traditional harpoons and boats. Big difference from bomb tipped harpoons and factory ships).
Click to expand...

So do the Japanese need to invest in more efficient ways of killing them quickly to be more humane? Would it make it less unsavory if they were killed quickly and cleanly?

(and yes, I'm serious)
 
fundamentally I see no problem with whaling as a source of food....the whales themselves are afterall meateaters too, they hunt and kill other animals. The problem is that we as a species are simply not rash intellectual beings anymore which leads us to hunt and kill other species into extinction. The native americans were meat eaters and I probably respect that culture more than any I've ever read about in all of recorded human history. They hunted buffalo with respect...they knew that they could not overhunt to protect the herd for the next hunting season...they knew they shouldn't take female's or baby buffalo. They were just responsible hunters who understood that if they got greedy the risked their prized food source for the next season. The japanese will hunt and kill every last seafaring animal into extinction if left unchecked...which is why I am in total agreement with those sea sheppard people even if they are astoundingly idiotic at times.

The power boat getting drafted by the nips was purely their fault...they had the opportunity to refuel the ship by they said "nah,let's get out there and annoy the fleet". Well, that left the ship dead in the water and for that they got what was coming. If I joined that group I'd be running the show within two years. They do so much shit wrong and ass backwards it's ridiculous. If they get just one guy with half a brain on him in that organization not one whale would ever make it up to that factory ship every again in a condition that would allow them to sell the meat. You can't stop them from killing the whales but you can ruin every single catch if you find that factory ship and stay on it's ass. The stink bomb throwing shit is funny, especially when they launch it out of their spud cannon....but really? C'mon.
 
mrplunkey said:
So do the Japanese need to invest in more efficient ways of killing them quickly to be more humane? Would it make it less unsavory if they were killed quickly and cleanly?

(and yes, I'm serious)
Click to expand...

Promise them 69 whale virgins in the whale after life before you off them
 
mrplunkey said:
So do the Japanese need to invest in more efficient ways of killing them quickly to be more humane? Would it make it less unsavory if they were killed quickly and cleanly?

(and yes, I'm serious)
Click to expand...
The short answer is: It cannot be done reliably. They are trying to kill something that is, generally, moving at high speed in a liquid medium. In the case of Minke whales, which are quite a bit smaller than some of the other varieties that are hunted, it weighs 4 to 5 tons and is about 30 feet long. To give you some perspective, to stun a cow, which generally weighs about one ton, you actually need to have the barrel of the stun gun against the skull.

Think about the way whales swim, it's not just flat and level. Can you imagine how difficult a perfect shot is? Especially from the deck of a boat?! The ideal situation would be a harpoon lodges closely enough to the skull to cause brain death when the explosives detonate. Obviously considering many whales continue to swim long after they are harpooned, that doesn't happen. It's not a timed explosion so they get harpooned, the bomb goes off somewhere in their body, they keep swimming until they die of internal bleeding or get towed and drowned.

I find the killing of higher mammals that have complex social structure, like apes, elephants, cetaceans and humans, disgusting, but I also find cruelty, intentionally or through a lack of care, revolting. Don't forget I mentioned the sharks in the beginning. All the japanese do is catch the sharks, lop off all of their fins and tail while they're alive, and then throw them back into the ocean. It's disgusting. It wouldn't be quite so bad if they killed the sharks and used all of the meat, but no.

It's the behavior of people who shit in water upstream from your home.
 
musclemom said:
No, they are NOT.

They are hunting whales, in A REFUGE, under the premise of performing research. Through a loophole in international law, animals killed for the sake of research can be sold as meat.

You can't juxtapose the Hindu reverence for the cow against our eating beef. For that matter, you probably don't even know why they view them as sacred. This isn't cultural, this is geopolitical and one of the big problems is that none of the heavy hitters wants to get involved because of fear of losing out on trade agreements with Japan. And, frankly, you can't compare a whale to a cow. You can kill a cow damned quick and with virtually no fear or pain if the slaughterhouse is well designed. It generally takes an hour or so to kill these whales. It's death by slow drowning.

In the final analysis, nobody needs to be killing whales to survive. This is about profits, nothing more.
Click to expand...

Except they AREN'T. A loophole might be why they are allowed to do it, but a loophole proves that they aren't breaking any laws. If they were, they would be prosecuted as such. Especially after all the international press they receive from shows, such as, but not limited to WHALE WARS. You do realize that the whole premise of a loophole ensuses that you aren't breaking the law?

I already said I don't I support killing whales. I also don't support vigilante justice as the Sea Shephard is trying to do. You want to stop this? Use the money and resources towards changing the law. The fact is this is a TV show for ENTERTAINMENT. Maybe take the revenue from the ADVERTISING from the show and use it to stop this. The fact is, they don't want it stopped. You stop whaling, you end the fat cow that is the TV show.

I don't know why Hindus view cows as sacred? One of my best friends was born in India. As for it not being cultural, but geopolitical, that's bullshit. You're saying it's not cultural because our culture frowns upon it. Their culture doesn't. The view of other nations is irrelevent to their cultures beliefs.
 
mrplunkey said:
So do the Japanese need to invest in more efficient ways of killing them quickly to be more humane? Would it make it less unsavory if they were killed quickly and cleanly?

(and yes, I'm serious)
Click to expand...
You're creating another RS, aren't you?
 
redshirt27se said:
I don't know why Hindus view cows as sacred? One of my best friends was born in India.
Click to expand...

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/chat-conversation/whats-up-these-hindus-661683.html

9sqLQc
 
lol @ trying to take the cultural bias out of this. fuck it, just do what you do. some cultures just suck in some ways.
 
unfortunately it's a small but very wealthy part of japanese society that won't let go of their dolphin or whale diets. Most japanese subsist off of normal seafood, which they are also hunting into extinction but so is the rest of the planet so it's not all their fault. The whales though are almost "exclusively" a jap thing. Amazing that one tiny country can run the worlds whale pops. into the critical zone. They think they can and should eat whale meat with the same frequency that we eat livestock. There's also, doubly unfortunate, this sentiment in japan that it's the west trying to tell them yet again what they can and can't do. Like it's Gen. McArthur all over again. And of course that sentiment is created and driven by the whalers to people who otherwise couldn't give a fuck if there's whale meat in the markets cause they don't eat it.
 
Don't forget Iceland and Norway, they both commercially hunt whales as well, and choose not to observe the international moratorium. Norway in particular has a long history of eating whale meat., for them it is a "cultural" tradition as well. They do not hunt under the guise of scientific research like the Japanese, they are quite forthcoming about their intentions. In Iceland they don't eat it so much as supply it to other countries for fish farm food/animal feed.

MEPs debate whaling with Norwegian fisheries minister 

Illegal Icelandic whale meal exports into Denmark raises questions about the content of the Great British breakfast says WDCS | Cision Wire
 
I didn't realize all these different people at whale meat.

Am I the only person now interested in trying it? This thread has been a real awareness-raiser.
 
mrplunkey said:
I didn't realize all these different people at whale meat.

Am I the only person now interested in trying it? This thread has been a real awareness-raiser.
Click to expand...

Haven't tried whale, but shark fin soup is amazingly good. I wonder what the Omega 3 and Omega 6 content is in whale meat. Probably pretty high since they eat a lot of krill and plankton.
 
mrplunkey said:
I didn't realize all these different people at whale meat.

Am I the only person now interested in trying it? This thread has been a real awareness-raiser.
Click to expand...
Eating whale and dolphin is no different than eating human.

If cannibalism has been something that's made you curious, knock your socks off.

Without going into a great deal of detail, basically, they are far, far from "dumb animals."
 
Haven't tried whale, but shark fin soup is amazingly good. I wonder what the Omega 3 and Omega 6 content is in whale meat. Probably pretty high since they eat a lot of krill and plankton.
Click to expand...

The video is less than three minutes long and produced by National Geographic. I spent more than that looking for one that wasn't too, umm, whiney.

 
musclemom said:
Eating whale and dolphin is no different than eating human.

If cannibalism has been something that's made you curious, knock your socks off.

Without going into a great deal of detail, basically, they are far, far from "dumb animals."
Click to expand...

I wouldn't use that criteria. It would deem a few EF'ers i know fit to eat.
 
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