Dermacrine !??

[needtogetaas]

hey two guns and needto...if you run clomid and aifm with it to counter the estrogen will that stop some of the crazy moody sides?

why not not take ether and save myself some cash and some tears.

but really your saying i should take some clomid to bring back my test or combat sides from aas and then take aifm to combat the sides from clomid.not only dos that sound dumb but it sounds like some one is cashing in twice on my ass lol

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Now, I know you have plenty of product testers and friends on this board who may say otherwise, but from the anecdotal reports Ive seen (including my own experiences), ATD kills sex drive, negatively influences cholesterol profiles and “dry’s” out your joints… all related to having sub-physiological estrogen levels from an overly powerful steroidal AI.

these are normal side effects of too much estrogen suppression, brought on by use of any AI at high dosages. Just because you cant dose it properly does not make it inneffective or too suppressive. Oral ATD commonly causes these problems because of spiked plasma levels, with varying uptake between doses. they are also common side effects of letrozole. The same sides occur with aromasin and arimidex at varying doses.

The studies with rats don’t show a positive result either. ATD hurts fertility and it even appears that it promotes homosexuality…..

Antifertility effects of an aromatase inhibitor, 1,4,6-androstatriene- 3, 17-dione
AM Brodie, JT Wu, DA Marsh, and HJ Brodie
Endocrinology, Jan 1979; 104: 118.

Effects of ATD on male sexual behavior and androgen receptor binding: a reexamination of the aromatization hypothesis.
ME Kaplan and MY McGinnis
Horm Behav, Mar 1989; 23(1): 10-26.

Behavioral action of estrogen in male hamsters: effect of the aromatase inhibitor, 1,4,6-androstatriene-3,17-dione (ATD).
E Steel and JB Hutchison
Horm Behav, Jun 1988; 22(2): 252-65.

Hormonal regulation of adult partner preference behavior in neonatally ATD-treated male rats.
J Bakker, T Brand, J van Ophemert, and AK Slob
Behav Neurosci, Jun 1993; 107(3): 480-7.

-Pp

LOL. you need to learn to actually read the studies before making wild ass claims. Of course AI's will affect female fertility, estrogen is highly involved in female fertility.
study #1 is on female rats and their ovulation
study #2 has been refuted, its hypothesis was incorrect
study #3 yes, at high doses, like all AI's, atd will suppress libido
study #4 yes if you estrogen deprive males during neonatal development, they develop "female" brains- odd but true, and at least in animals this leads to same sex preference. it is however COMPLETELY irrelevant and has no bearing on adult male use of AI's. this study would apply to all aromatase inhibitors

 

[macrophage69alpha]

We could throw abstracts at each other all night long, but the bottom line remains. There is no sense in using an AI with potential fertility inhibitory problems if you can choose an AI that encourages fertility, such as the AI's weve included in Dermacrine.

-Pp

throwing abstracts really should involve understanding them first. since you mention it why dont you provide the abstracts for the studies that show that chrysin "encourages" fertility. Or even a study that shows that its effective in vivo.

 

[jmead]

throwing abstracts really should involve understanding them first. since you mention it why dont you provide the abstracts for the studies that show that chrysin "encourages" fertility. Or even a study that shows that its effective in vivo.

golf clap*.. if you didnt have so much karma id give you some.. lets hear some more from the new sponser.. OOO SPOT LIGHTS ON U NOW

 

[Cutt29]

these are normal side effects of too much estrogen suppression, brought on by use of any AI at high dosages. Just because you cant dose it properly does not make it inneffective or too suppressive. Oral ATD commonly causes these problems because of spiked plasma levels, with varying uptake between doses. they are also common side effects of letrozole. The same sides occur with aromasin and arimidex at varying doses.



LOL. you need to learn to actually read the studies before making wild ass claims. Of course AI's will affect female fertility, estrogen is highly involved in female fertility.
study #1 is on female rats and their ovulation
study #2 has been refuted, its hypothesis was incorrect
study #3 yes, at high doses, like all AI's, atd will suppress libido
study #4 yes if you estrogen deprive males during neonatal development, they develop "female" brains- odd but true, and at least in animals this leads to same sex preference. it is however COMPLETELY irrelevant and has no bearing on adult male use of AI's. this study would apply to all aromatase inhibitors

lol mac just did you, still waitin on your response to the HCG comment

 

[al420]

I feel stupid every time Ulter and Macro bust out the studies...lol

 

[Primordial Performance]

study #4 yes if you estrogen deprive males during neonatal development, they develop "female" brains- odd but true, and at least in animals this leads to same sex preference. it is however COMPLETELY irrelevant and has no bearing on adult male use of AI's. this study would apply to all aromatase inhibitors.

First of all, the homosexuality comment was a joke, taken surprisingly serious. I will edit my post if you feel this to be a unfair slanderous statement.

throwing abstracts really should involve understanding them first. since you mention it why dont you provide the abstracts for the studies that show that chrysin "encourages" fertility. Or even a study that shows that its effective in vivo.

Here are just a couple studies of resveratrol, benzoflavone and chrysin effectively increasing fertility.

53. trans-Resveratrol, a Natural Antioxidant from Grapes, Increases Sperm Output in Healthy Rats
M. Emília Juan, Eulalia González-Pons, Thais Munuera, Joan Ballester, Joan E. Rodríguez-Gil, and Joana M. Planas
J. Nutr., Apr 2005; 135: 757 – 760

54. Prevention of chronic alcohol and nicotine-induced azospermia, sterility and decreased libido, by a novel tri-substituted benzoflavone moiety from Passiflora incarnata Linneaus in healthy male rats.
K Dhawan and A Sharma
Life Sci, Nov 2002; 71(26): 3059-69.

In all honesty, we considered using a steroidal based aromatase inhibitor for months, but realized there was no way to avoid the inherent flaws associated with it.

IMO, ATD is too strong of an AI that will lead to a plethora of problems and eventually lead to suppression of the HTPA.

Speaking of spot light…

Have blood or saliva tests ever been ran on AIFM to test product efficacy?

What is the margin of error with the ATD dose?

-Pp

 

[Primordial Performance]

PP care to adress this claim you made to me on OLM last week??

Well, we still do feel that way and intend to prove it with our soon to be active testers taking hormone analyses.

I explained my stance on HCG on OLM.

-Pp

 

[Cutt29]

Well, we still do feel that way and intend to prove it with our soon to be active testers taking hormone analyses.

I explained my stance on HCG on OLM.

-Pp

no response was made on the thread i was referring to

 

[Primordial Performance]

no response was made on the thread i was referring to

The thread is right here -
http://www.outlawmuscle.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34417