Dermacrine !??

[Cutt29]

PP care to adress this claim you made to me on OLM last week??

We feel that our product blows HCG out of the water. It really is a whole different kind of monster.

 

[Twoguns]

here we go (I'm giddy !)

 

[needtogetaas]

were is mrx and anthony roberts lets here what they have to say.I think they are smart guys.

 

[needtogetaas]

btw fuck clomid and nolva I always feel like a girl when I use them.only reason I ever used them was because there is so much shit on here about how you need them I felt like I had to take them.I have gon as high as a gram of test 500mg deca with 60mg ed dbol with out them and never neft a hard nip or any thing.ya I got bloated a bit but I liked it.lubed the joints and gave me more power.once I got of the bloat was gone.then I used cee,no,and other stuff and only lost a little of my gains.

I really could care less about pct I just want to see if this new tuff can raise my test levels if it can well then fuck ya if it can well then fuck no.

 

[Twoguns]

yeah, I agree with ya on the clomid thing. I am in week three and I feel like a little bitch. I wanted to cry at the end of the movie Invincible and I have been watching George Michael videos on Youtube.

 

[needtogetaas]

yeah, I agree with ya on the clomid thing. I am in week three and I feel like a little bitch. I wanted to cry at the end of the movie Invincible and I have been watching George Michael videos on Youtube.

george michael bro.dame

 

[D_Mac]

yeah, I agree with ya on the clomid thing. I am in week three and I feel like a little bitch. I wanted to cry at the end of the movie Invincible and I have been watching George Michael videos on Youtube.

Lol I know what you mean. I had the worst experience of my life on Clomid, I just ended a cycle and started clomid and then fell in love with this girl. She was nothing special but the clomid made me want to fall in love and suckle the first teet I could find. I came on WAY too strong because of the clomid and basically wanted to marry her after two weeks. She of course dumped me and I about killed myself from the grief. Two weeks later I get off clomid and it was like waking up after a hard night of drinking "what the hell did I do last month?"

-D

 

[Primordial Performance]

The things you're posting are wrong on so many levels I don't even know where to start. AI's are a poor choice for hypogonadism because they surpress T production? See: below
Test will inhibit Estrogen, and therefore water retention, and gyno, enough all by itself so men don't need an anti E while on cycles of test? That's um... revolutionary.

Ulter,

I assume your using teslac abstracts as an example because you agree that all steroidal based aromatase inhibitors share the same properties. Fair enough.

I also assume that you know estrogen is not the only hormone involved in the negative feedback loop?

Both studies you refer to are using men with an abnormaly high estrogen level. I have no doubt that reducing super-physiological estrogen to normal levels will increase testosterone every time, but this could be achieved with any AI.

Unfortunately we are probably not dealing with obese men who have abnormal levels of estrogen. I presume that most members of this board are in fairly good shape and are probably using some kind of AI during a cycle, and therefore begining PCT with a semi-normal estrogen level.

If this is the case, less estrogen does not always mean more testosterone, and when you bring estrogen down to sub-physiological levels you begin to have problems with leydig responsiveness as well as direct androgen receptor suppression coming from a molecule that …. well…. acts like an androgen.

Aromatase inhibitors prevent granulosa cell differentiation: an obligatory role for estrogens in luteinizing hormone receptor expression
M Knecht, AM Brodie, and KJ Catt
Endocrinology, Sep 1985; 117: 1156.

Effect of an inhibitor of aromatization, 1,4,6 androstatriene-3,17-dione (ATD) on LH release and steroid binding in hypothalamus of adult female rats.
Exp Brain Res. 1986;64(3):407-10.
Slama A, Gogan F, Sarrieau A, Vial M, Rostene W, Kordon C.

Now, I know you have plenty of product testers and friends on this board who may say otherwise, but from the anecdotal reports Ive seen (including my own experiences), ATD kills sex drive, negatively influences cholesterol profiles and “dry’s” out your joints… all related to having sub-physiological estrogen levels from an overly powerful steroidal AI.

The studies with rats don’t show a positive result either. ATD hurts fertility and it even appears that it promotes homosexuality…..

Antifertility effects of an aromatase inhibitor, 1,4,6-androstatriene- 3, 17-dione
AM Brodie, JT Wu, DA Marsh, and HJ Brodie
Endocrinology, Jan 1979; 104: 118.

Effects of ATD on male sexual behavior and androgen receptor binding: a reexamination of the aromatization hypothesis.
ME Kaplan and MY McGinnis
Horm Behav, Mar 1989; 23(1): 10-26.

Behavioral action of estrogen in male hamsters: effect of the aromatase inhibitor, 1,4,6-androstatriene-3,17-dione (ATD).
E Steel and JB Hutchison
Horm Behav, Jun 1988; 22(2): 252-65.

Hormonal regulation of adult partner preference behavior in neonatally ATD-treated male rats.
J Bakker, T Brand, J van Ophemert, and AK Slob
Behav Neurosci, Jun 1993; 107(3): 480-7.

Lastly, I never said AI’s would suppress testosterone production. I merely expressed the idea that steroidal-based AI’s can have an inhibitory effect at a cellular level, therefore ATD would not be an optimal choice for hypogonanal man wishing to regain natural testosterone production, especially those whom already may have normal estrogen levels.

We could throw abstracts at each other all night long, but the bottom line remains. There is no sense in using an AI with potential fertility inhibitory problems if you can choose an AI that encourages fertility, such as the AI's weve included in Dermacrine.

Next please.

-Pp

 

[needtogetaas]

Ulter,

I assume your using teslac abstracts as an example because you agree that all steroidal based aromatase inhibitors share the same properties. Fair enough.

I also assume that you know estrogen is not the only hormone involved in the negative feedback loop?

Both studies you refer to are using men with an abnormaly high estrogen level. I have no doubt that reducing super-physiological estrogen to normal levels will increase testosterone every time, but this could be achieved with any AI.

Unfortunately we are probably not dealing with obese men who have abnormal levels of estrogen. I presume that most members of this board are in fairly good shape and are probably using some kind of AI during a cycle, and therefore begining PCT with a semi-normal estrogen level.

If this is the case, less estrogen does not always mean more testosterone, and when you bring estrogen down to sub-physiological levels you begin to have problems with leydig responsiveness as well as direct androgen receptor suppression coming from a molecule that …. well…. acts like an androgen.

Aromatase inhibitors prevent granulosa cell differentiation: an obligatory role for estrogens in luteinizing hormone receptor expression
M Knecht, AM Brodie, and KJ Catt
Endocrinology, Sep 1985; 117: 1156.

Effect of an inhibitor of aromatization, 1,4,6 androstatriene-3,17-dione (ATD) on LH release and steroid binding in hypothalamus of adult female rats.
Exp Brain Res. 1986;64(3):407-10.
Slama A, Gogan F, Sarrieau A, Vial M, Rostene W, Kordon C.

Now, I know you have plenty of product testers and friends on this board who may say otherwise, but from the anecdotal reports Ive seen (including my own experiences), ATD kills sex drive, negatively influences cholesterol profiles and “dry’s” out your joints… all related to having sub-physiological estrogen levels from an overly powerful steroidal AI.

The studies with rats don’t show a positive result either. ATD hurts fertility and it even appears that it promotes homosexuality…..

Antifertility effects of an aromatase inhibitor, 1,4,6-androstatriene- 3, 17-dione
AM Brodie, JT Wu, DA Marsh, and HJ Brodie
Endocrinology, Jan 1979; 104: 118.

Effects of ATD on male sexual behavior and androgen receptor binding: a reexamination of the aromatization hypothesis.
ME Kaplan and MY McGinnis
Horm Behav, Mar 1989; 23(1): 10-26.

Behavioral action of estrogen in male hamsters: effect of the aromatase inhibitor, 1,4,6-androstatriene-3,17-dione (ATD).
E Steel and JB Hutchison
Horm Behav, Jun 1988; 22(2): 252-65.

Hormonal regulation of adult partner preference behavior in neonatally ATD-treated male rats.
J Bakker, T Brand, J van Ophemert, and AK Slob
Behav Neurosci, Jun 1993; 107(3): 480-7.

Lastly, I never said AI’s would suppress testosterone production. I merely expressed the idea that steroidal-based AI’s can have an inhibitory effect at a cellular level, therefore ATD would not be an optimal choice for hypogonanal man wishing to regain natural testosterone production, especially those whom already may have normal estrogen levels.

We could throw abstracts at each other all night long, but the bottom line remains. There is no sense in using an AI with potential fertility inhibitory problems if you can choose an AI that encourages fertility, such as the AI's weve included in Dermacrine.

Next please.

-Pp

"The studies with rats don’t show a positive result either. ATD hurts fertility and it even appears that it promotes homosexuality….."

I think this was my favorite part.lol

 

[Cauliflower Ear]

yeah, I agree with ya on the clomid thing. I am in week three and I feel like a little bitch. I wanted to cry at the end of the movie Invincible and I have been watching George Michael videos on Youtube.

hey two guns and needto...if you run clomid and aifm with it to counter the estrogen will that stop some of the crazy moody sides?