Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below muscledog95
New member
Does one lose what they gained on creatine?
creatine gains
- Thread starter muscledog95
- Start date
muscledog95
New member
after they stop taking it...haha sorry forgot the last part
J
jeremys
Guest
when i first used creatine, i JUST started doing squats and deads and i started eating as much as i could. i went from flex magazine crap to smart training and eating. needless to say i gained 30 lbs with only a little bit of fat, but i'm pretty damn sure it wasnt the creatine. lol..
oh yeah, i used it again and it didnt do much. maybe a little extra strength endurance
oh yeah, i used it again and it didnt do much. maybe a little extra strength endurance
J
jeremys
Guest
well the funny thing for me is that when i used it, i didnt lose anything after i stopped. i wonder where that water went 
R
revexrevex
Guest
I gained 10 lbs of water on it first time, and about 6 pounds of water second time. Somehow I never lost it. NO idea where all the weight went
pwr_machine
New member
A muscle contraction is fueled by energy coming from dephosphorylation of ATP to ADP. ATP is depleted quickly and must be resynthesized. Shorts burst of exercise lasting for mere seconds primarily involves the phosphocreatine system. As PCr stores are depleted, muscular performance decreases.
Hence, we have the need for creatine supplementation which has been shown to effectively increase muscular PCr stores. That's the energy Spatts was referring too that allows us to do more work. More work means more potential for muscle mass and increased strength.
Typically, the strength gains stick around while the associated water weight is lost. Creatine supplementation may only increase strength by a small percent, but that could percent could mean the difference between winning and losing.
Hence, we have the need for creatine supplementation which has been shown to effectively increase muscular PCr stores. That's the energy Spatts was referring too that allows us to do more work. More work means more potential for muscle mass and increased strength.
Typically, the strength gains stick around while the associated water weight is lost. Creatine supplementation may only increase strength by a small percent, but that could percent could mean the difference between winning and losing.
Spatts... the link you posted contradicts your own view on creatine:
You said: "Creatine doesn't put muscle on you..."
One can't claim that the additional muscle experienced by the Cr supplemented group was due to increased intensity or workload; both groups performed the same routine.
You said: "Creatine doesn't put muscle on you..."
One can't claim that the additional muscle experienced by the Cr supplemented group was due to increased intensity or workload; both groups performed the same routine.
muscledog95
New member
im familiar with creatine. I used it a lot in high school and my lifts shot up. I guess what im saying is the strength gains some get from the energy creatine supplies..Do they lose it after they got off of creatine?
In response to your original question, yes and no.
The water weight you gain you will lose, but the net weight gained AFTER loading will be kept.
For instance, you weigh
180. After loading you weigh
185 (+5 water lbs). Then you bulk up to
195 (+5 water, +10 tissue lbs). You go off creatine, and normalize to
190 (+10 tissue lbs.)
creatine is definitely underrated, esp. considering how cheap it is.
The water weight you gain you will lose, but the net weight gained AFTER loading will be kept.
For instance, you weigh
180. After loading you weigh
185 (+5 water lbs). Then you bulk up to
195 (+5 water, +10 tissue lbs). You go off creatine, and normalize to
190 (+10 tissue lbs.)
creatine is definitely underrated, esp. considering how cheap it is.
True, true...
Coincidentally, that study was discussed on the HST site. Bryan Haycock (HST founder), who I assume has seen the full text, claimed that after an initial fat-free mass weight gain, the fat free mass gain actually accelerated through the rest of the study. That would seem to support either increases protein synthesis or decreased protein catabolism.
Coincidentally, that study was discussed on the HST site. Bryan Haycock (HST founder), who I assume has seen the full text, claimed that after an initial fat-free mass weight gain, the fat free mass gain actually accelerated through the rest of the study. That would seem to support either increases protein synthesis or decreased protein catabolism.
pwr_machine
New member
"Typically, the strength gains stick around while the associated water weight is lost. "muscledog95 said:
pwr_machine
New member
Vandenberghe K (1997) have determined that on cessation of creatine intake, muscle PCr in females returned to normal within 4 weeks.spatts said:
From personal experiences with a lifter, I know that the strength gains are most likely not lost.
Backlash
New member
Hmm, I never seemed to get much benefit, but then again I never really was too serious about lifting until recently. Maybe I'll try it after my vacation this week since it sounds pretty good from what you guys are saying.
2 questions:
1. From that study, it seems that you only have to load (20 g a day) for 2 days rather than the standard 5? Is that right?
2. Is the pill form as good as the powder? It is much easier to take, especially during loading when I'd have to take it twice at work.
2 questions:
1. From that study, it seems that you only have to load (20 g a day) for 2 days rather than the standard 5? Is that right?
2. Is the pill form as good as the powder? It is much easier to take, especially during loading when I'd have to take it twice at work.
pwr_machine
New member
In response to your 2 questions....1) I have seen studies that have shown that the loading phase is not necessary. 2) I'm sure if you do a search, you'll find more information. I prefer the premixed powders since they include both creatine and sugar that is VERY important to Cr ingestion.
pwr_machine
New member
I'll elaborate...
Terjung RL et al (2001), reported in the American College of Sports Medicine's journal, Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, that high dose loading phase of 20 g x d(-1) that is common to many research studies is NOT necessary.
In my opinion, it's a waste of money to consume the loading phase recommendations.
Terjung RL et al (2001), reported in the American College of Sports Medicine's journal, Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, that high dose loading phase of 20 g x d(-1) that is common to many research studies is NOT necessary.
In my opinion, it's a waste of money to consume the loading phase recommendations.
Last edited:
So a proper cycle would be 5 g a day for 1 month, followed by a month off? And it is important to take it with some sort of juice or something with simple sugars rather than mixing it in water? Some of those premixes seem sketchy to me...
Just buy the straight powder. You don't really need to take it with sugar, just dump it into your preworkout shake.
Don't buy pills either. They use it as an excuse to jack up up the price. 1200 g of optimum pure creatine monohydrate (my favorite!) is like 25 bucks. That should last you literally 8 months.
Don't buy pills either. They use it as an excuse to jack up up the price. 1200 g of optimum pure creatine monohydrate (my favorite!) is like 25 bucks. That should last you literally 8 months.
casualbb said:
Argh, where do you come up with these theories? How would you even know which 5lbs you lost, the one from the begining or the end???
This is complete and utter nonsence, spatts had it right:
"Well, the "gain" from creatine is IM water and other fluids. So yeah, you lose it. Creatine doesn't put muscle on you, it just helps you do more work so that you may put on more muscle through training. It's not like a steroid."
-sk
muscledog95
New member
thanks for all the replies everyone
bigguns15
New member
casualbb said:
It's actually more effective to be taken with sugar, particularly dextrose, due to the elevated insulin levels it produces. Also, if you use a creatine mix in your post workout shake, your muscles are glycogen depleted and much more likely to take up the creatine.
slinky
New member
I also mix my creatine in with my dextrose/maltodextrin post workout shake; however haven't done this in awhile.
Since creatine can also cause dehydration I've discontinued using it. You know, dehydration can also be catabolic. I know, I know, the "but it causes that famous bloat".
Heh, funny: I believe creatine is overrated. I'm much more concerned with my protein intake than I am with my creatine intake.
Since creatine can also cause dehydration I've discontinued using it. You know, dehydration can also be catabolic. I know, I know, the "but it causes that famous bloat".
Heh, funny: I believe creatine is overrated. I'm much more concerned with my protein intake than I am with my creatine intake.
ffknight84
New member
i take it purely for the strength gain...
pwr_machine
New member
I think Bigguns15 hit the nail on the head.
Yes insulin makes it more effective, but the amount of spike you get from the sugar does in one of those creatine formulas doesn't really give you that big a spike. So a homemade formula would be a better option.
Also studies have shown that creatine is taken up more effectively when ingested pre-workout, same with protein.
Huh? Okay I'll spell it out for you. Creatine causes an uptake of water and PCr into the muscles. This causes weight gain. This weight gain and thus the water and PCr will remain as long as you stay on it. They go away when you go off. But any muscle you grew while on stays. Is that simple enough?
Also studies have shown that creatine is taken up more effectively when ingested pre-workout, same with protein.
Huh? Okay I'll spell it out for you. Creatine causes an uptake of water and PCr into the muscles. This causes weight gain. This weight gain and thus the water and PCr will remain as long as you stay on it. They go away when you go off. But any muscle you grew while on stays. Is that simple enough?
R
revexrevex
Guest
Spatts do yoou have the subscription to pubmed?
The amount of insulin that is required to augment creatine uptake is near supraphysiologic (means really high). To get there it would take at least 100 grams of pure glucose or maltodextrin to spike the insulin to that level.
See the following paper:
Am J Physiol. Vol. 275, Issue 6, E974-E979
Stimulatory effect of insulin on creatine accumulation in human skeletal muscle
G. R. Steenge, J. Lambourne, A. Casey, I. A. Macdonald, and P. L. Greenhaff
School of Biomedical Sciences, University Medical School, Queen's Medical Centre, Nottingham NG7 2UH, United Kingdom
This study investigated the effect of insulin on plasma and muscle creatine accumulation and limb blood flow in humans after creatine administration. Seven men underwent a 300-min euglycemic insulin clamp combined with creatine administration on four separate occasions. Insulin was infused at rates of 5, 30, 55, or 105 mU · m2 · min1, and on each occasion 12.4 g creatine was administered. During infusion of insulin at rates of 55 and 105 mU · m2 · min1, muscle total creatine concentration increased by 4.5 ± 1.4 (P < 0.05) and 8.3 ± 1.0 mmol/kg dry mass (P < 0.05), and plasma creatine concentrations were lower at specific time points compared with the 5 mU · m2 · min1 infusion rate. The magnitude of increase in calf blood flow (plethysmography) was the same irrespective of the rate of insulin infusion, and forearm blood flow increased to the same extent as the three highest infusion rates. These findings demonstrate that insulin can enhance muscle creatine accumulation in humans but only when present at physiologically high or supraphysiological concentrations. This response is likely to be the result of an insulin-mediated increase in muscle creatine transport rather than creatine delivery.
See the following paper:
Am J Physiol. Vol. 275, Issue 6, E974-E979
Stimulatory effect of insulin on creatine accumulation in human skeletal muscle
G. R. Steenge, J. Lambourne, A. Casey, I. A. Macdonald, and P. L. Greenhaff
School of Biomedical Sciences, University Medical School, Queen's Medical Centre, Nottingham NG7 2UH, United Kingdom
This study investigated the effect of insulin on plasma and muscle creatine accumulation and limb blood flow in humans after creatine administration. Seven men underwent a 300-min euglycemic insulin clamp combined with creatine administration on four separate occasions. Insulin was infused at rates of 5, 30, 55, or 105 mU · m2 · min1, and on each occasion 12.4 g creatine was administered. During infusion of insulin at rates of 55 and 105 mU · m2 · min1, muscle total creatine concentration increased by 4.5 ± 1.4 (P < 0.05) and 8.3 ± 1.0 mmol/kg dry mass (P < 0.05), and plasma creatine concentrations were lower at specific time points compared with the 5 mU · m2 · min1 infusion rate. The magnitude of increase in calf blood flow (plethysmography) was the same irrespective of the rate of insulin infusion, and forearm blood flow increased to the same extent as the three highest infusion rates. These findings demonstrate that insulin can enhance muscle creatine accumulation in humans but only when present at physiologically high or supraphysiological concentrations. This response is likely to be the result of an insulin-mediated increase in muscle creatine transport rather than creatine delivery.
Protein- and carbohydrate-induced augmentation of whole body creatine retention in humans
G. R. Steenge, E. J. Simpson, and P. L. Greenhaff
School of Biomedical Sciences, University Medical School, Queen's Medical Centre, Nottingham NG7 2UH, United Kingdom
It is concluded, first, that the ingestion of creatine in conjunction with ~50 g of protein and CHO is as effective at potentiating insulin release and creatine retention as ingesting creatine in combination with almost 100 g of CHO. Second, the stimulatory effect of insulin on creatine disposal was diminished within the initial 24 h of supplementation.
G. R. Steenge, E. J. Simpson, and P. L. Greenhaff
School of Biomedical Sciences, University Medical School, Queen's Medical Centre, Nottingham NG7 2UH, United Kingdom
It is concluded, first, that the ingestion of creatine in conjunction with ~50 g of protein and CHO is as effective at potentiating insulin release and creatine retention as ingesting creatine in combination with almost 100 g of CHO. Second, the stimulatory effect of insulin on creatine disposal was diminished within the initial 24 h of supplementation.
pwr_machine
New member
Definately a good point.spatts said:
here's the one on protein. I'll dig up the creatine one later.
http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=220838&highlight=phenylalanine
http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=220838&highlight=phenylalanine
