continue with school or stay at union job?

[digimon7068]

Here's PA's child healthcare assistance program: CHIP Eligibility & Benefits

If they're making less than $47,100 then the kid's care is free
If they're making less than $58,875 then the kid costs $48 per month
If they're making less than $64,763 then the kid costs $67 per month
If they're making less than $70,650 then the kid costs $77 per month

and there's still people running around PA with uninsured kids...nice, huh??

you have to take tests before they'll issue you a driver's license but you can procreate at will...fucking ponderous, man...

 

[mrplunkey]

Yeah, it's about 40-50% of America on some sort of gov't assistance. Wonder how they vote?

Oh, we know which way they'll vote.

This has been Barry's approach all along. It's genius -- and I don't mean that as a backhanded compliment. It is a well-formed, ruthless, pragmatic and even reasonably-well executed strategy.

And it's so simple: Secure over 50% of voters on government assistance, then let them keep voting themselves more and more things. Barry and his ilk can stay in power effectively forever.

Really the only downside are the people left over in the system. While the wealthy and the portable can move on to greener pastures, the core of Americans will be trapped in a poorer and poorer environment where they vote themselves a larger portion of an ever-shrinking tax base. Want to see where it's already happened? Look no further than Detroit. That's what the entire US will be like in ten to twenty years. And do you think the guys who looted Detroit stay there now? Well of course not. They've moved on and left the voters to wallow in their own filth.

In other words, the system is working as intended. Have you seen the Dow lately? Somebody's getting rich!

 

[digimon7068]

Oh, we know which way they'll vote.

This has been Barry's approach all along. It's genius -- and I don't mean that as a backhanded compliment. It is a well-formed, ruthless, pragmatic and even reasonably-well executed strategy.

And it's so simple: Secure over 50% of voters on government assistance, then let them keep voting themselves more and more things. Barry and his ilk can stay in power effectively forever.

Really the only downside are the people left over in the system. While the wealthy and the portable can move on to greener pastures, the core of Americans will be trapped in a poorer and poorer environment where they vote themselves a larger portion of an ever-shrinking tax base. Want to see where it's already happened? Look no further than Detroit. That's what the entire US will be like in ten to twenty years. And do you think the guys who looted Detroit stay there now? Well of course not. They've moved on and left the voters to wallow in their own filth.

In other words, the system is working as intended.

actually they moved out and bears and raccoons and packs of wild dogs moved into the abandoned houses...

 

[musclemom]

The quantity, size and scope of the safety nets out there are unbelievable.

Can you believe 47 million people get food stamps?

Nine million people get social security disability.

108,592,000 people received benefits from means-tested government programs in Q4 of 2011 (I know, it's a little dated).

And when you add in non-means tested programs like Medicare and Social Security, that number rises to 151,014,000

* Source: 2011 Census data

You do realize that a lot of the assistance programs for the working poor are based on an income scale and people who are working full time and making about $8.00/hour qualify (in my state) for about $16.00 a month in food stamps, right?

As for it being "easy" to get SSD, I can tell you for a fact it's NOT. I have a freaking autistic stepdaughter and it still took a lawyer and an appalling amount of medical/psychological tests that were not covered by her insurance to get her SSD award, and they didn't make it retroactive to her birth, but to when the definitive test was done. Apparently as far as the government is concerned she "became" autistic when she was properly diagnosed.

People who don't know the system from the inside don't understand just how humiliating and dehumanizing the system is, how hard it is to get the proper help, how little that help actually does help. Yeah, it keeps you alive, but get you into a position to better your life? No. And forget working and continuing to collect assistance. People bitch about welfare but the problem is welfare doesn't help you get OUT of welfare. There is no job assistance, there is no bridge that helps you build job skills or a cash cushion, there is no system that bridges you off welfare and into the job market. You get a job that bumps you off welfare even by a PENNY you're done, even if that job still has you at poverty levels.

The system makes it nearly impossible for an honest person to get their life straightened out if they're on welfare.

 

[digimon7068]

You do realize that a lot of the assistance programs for the working poor are based on an income scale and people who are working full time and making about $8.00/hour qualify (in my state) for about $16.00 a month in food stamps, right?

As for it being "easy" to get SSD, I can tell you for a fact it's NOT. I have a freaking autistic stepdaughter and it still took a lawyer and an appalling amount of medical/psychological tests that were not covered by her insurance to get her SSD award, and they didn't make it retroactive to her birth, but to when the definitive test was done. Apparently as far as the government is concerned she "became" autistic when she was properly diagnosed.

People who don't know the system from the inside don't understand just how humiliating and dehumanizing the system is, how hard it is to get the proper help, how little that help actually does help. Yeah, it keeps you alive, but get you into a position to better your life? No. And forget working and continuing to collect assistance. People bitch about welfare but the problem is welfare doesn't help you get OUT of welfare. There is no job assistance, there is no bridge that helps you build job skills or a cash cushion, there is no system that bridges you off welfare and into the job market. You get a job that bumps you off welfare even by a PENNY you're done, even if that job still has you at poverty levels.

The system makes it nearly impossible for an honest person to get their life straightened out if they're on welfare.

bottom line?? most employers don't like to hire people off of welfare...there is a high degree of skepticism directed at someone that got themselves on welfare in the first place...the problem with welfare is that too many of the people that are on it are too shiftless and lazy to get off their own ass and find a job(s) to support themselves...they just sit and wait for the government to provide them with one, either directly through government job creation or indirectly, by offering tax credits to employers that are desperate enough to take the risk.

you can be anything that you want to be in this country...including a welfare recipient.

 

[mrplunkey]

You do realize that a lot of the assistance programs for the working poor are based on an income scale and people who are working full time and making about $8.00/hour qualify (in my state) for about $16.00 a month in food stamps, right?

As for it being "easy" to get SSD, I can tell you for a fact it's NOT. I have a freaking autistic stepdaughter and it still took a lawyer and an appalling amount of medical/psychological tests that were not covered by her insurance to get her SSD award, and they didn't make it retroactive to her birth, but to when the definitive test was done. Apparently as far as the government is concerned she "became" autistic when she was properly diagnosed.

People who don't know the system from the inside don't understand just how humiliating and dehumanizing the system is, how hard it is to get the proper help, how little that help actually does help. Yeah, it keeps you alive, but get you into a position to better your life? No. And forget working and continuing to collect assistance. People bitch about welfare but the problem is welfare doesn't help you get OUT of welfare. There is no job assistance, there is no bridge that helps you build job skills or a cash cushion, there is no system that bridges you off welfare and into the job market. You get a job that bumps you off welfare even by a PENNY you're done, even if that job still has you at poverty levels.

The system makes it nearly impossible for an honest person to get their life straightened out if they're on welfare.

I don't doubt that you personally had a bad experience getting SSDI. But look at the larger picture:

And then ask yourself: How far do you have to go to find an ad for a firm helping someone receive SSDI? Isn't it on every other billboard? What about TV commercials? They are everywhere. And radio ads? Yup, more SSDI ads there too.

So are we supposed to believe that thousands of these SSDI specialty firms are tricking millions of people to give them money (or a percentage of their benefit) all to no avail?

Again, I don't doubt you had a bad experience. But in the macroeconomic sense, the floodgates are wide open.

 

[musclemom]

I don't doubt that you personally had a bad experience getting SSDI. But look at the larger picture:

And then ask yourself: How far do you have to go to find an ad for a firm helping someone receive SSDI? Isn't it on every other billboard? What about TV commercials? They are everywhere. And radio ads? Yup, more SSDI ads there too.

So are we supposed to believe that thousands of these SSDI specialty firms are tricking millions of people to give them money (or a percentage of their benefit) all to no avail?

Again, I don't doubt you had a bad experience. But in the macroeconomic sense, the floodgates are wide open.

It's in my nature to find reasons for observable phenomenon. Something like the obvious increase in SSD enrollment as illustrated by the chart you provided made me curious. Made the government curious too. A report was generated last year addressing that very issue. It's a PDF, the most pertinent information starts on page 6. http://1.usa.gov/LVaqgB

I admit I got bored and stopped reading after page 7 or so but from what I read it says the increase in SSD/SSI enrollment comes from the aging workforce/increase in age of retirement (and I can tell you from personal experience, you can eat right, exercise, and your body still starts to fall apart after a certain age, it's inevitable, you can't stop it and it hits women harder and younger than men), the increase in women in the workforce, and rule changes that were enacted in 1980 and 1984 that loosened the definitions of qualifying conditions. IOW, you want to be irked at anyone, get irked at Reagan (the graph mirrors that, with the jumps starting in Bush, Sr.'s administration). That would have been when the oldest baby boomers would be hitting their mid 40s and that's the age the first chronic health conditions love to start cropping up particularly in women.

So here we are 20+ years later and baby boomers are forced to keep working because a lot of them lost their retirement investments during the crash and/or their homes lost resale value and/or companies have discontinued pension plans -- can you imagine it? You get a letter in the mail, you've worked for a company for 30+ years and you had this money, you got these statements, you were counting on it and with the strike of a pen that extra $100k or so you expected to be there when you retired is just gone. My husband was lucky, his company just decided to freeze his but I've heard of them just being ... deleted (I'm sure there's another word for it but I can't think of one right now).

BTW, the report does address the issue of health insurance and how many potential workers may stay on SSD because they need health care benefits and there is a question of how the Affordable Health Care act may impact SSD enrollment.

Old age for a lot of us (in the middle to lower end of middle class especially) is a scary, scary place. It's one of the reasons you go into a fast food joint and often as not the person taking your order has wrinkles and gray hair instead of acne and braces. You can't make over a certain amount of money and continue to receive your cash and medical benefits. Plus, you usually get one meal a day at a fast food place for free or reduced cost and every little bit helps, even if it is only calories and not real food.

 

[mrplunkey]

I'm not irked at Reagan. I'm irked at FDR for starting this whole mess.

Pick the war... War on Poverty, War on Drugs, War on Terrorism... our government can take any bad thing and make it much, much worse.

And you do often accurately portray the plight of the middle and lower classes, but there's one and only one sustainable way to help them -- private sector employment. We need to eradicate this silly notion that you can take something from one group of people and hand it to another group of people without repercussions. We need explosive private sector growth to get out of this mess and instead we get more taxes, more regulation, more government waste, more public schools, more lawsuits and an ever-expanding social safety net. I love listening to politicians talk about helping people without jobs. Who destroyed their jobs in the first place? It's like someone who murders their parents in cold blood then asks the court for leniency because they are an orphan.

But until people decide it's time to do something differently, we're destined to stay on our course of being the United States of Detroit. So far, the system is working as intended. Have you seen the Dow today? Somebody is doing really well!