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badboybounce
New member
iv read here million times avoid nolva its shit etc outdated even dylan slates it many posts yet i hav an inbox msg from dylan to buy nolva?help me out here wtf is deal
confused on nolvadex
- Thread starter badboybounce
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badboybounce
New member
cancel read his post though stil confused
so we should never be willing to change our minds in fitness?
i change my mind on cycle all the time.. sometimes i increase dose, lower dose.. add an ancillary.. add a supplement.. take away an ancillary.
i don't understand why its wrong to be willing to change your opinion on something. as if it shows strength and its manly to be stubborn and set in your ways. its the opposite.. a real man admits when he is wrong.. a real man is willing to try new things and change things up.
i change my mind on cycle all the time.. sometimes i increase dose, lower dose.. add an ancillary.. add a supplement.. take away an ancillary.
i don't understand why its wrong to be willing to change your opinion on something. as if it shows strength and its manly to be stubborn and set in your ways. its the opposite.. a real man admits when he is wrong.. a real man is willing to try new things and change things up.
badboybounce
New member
im not slating steve i simply said i was confused as every1 including urself has steered ppl away from nolva thats all im saying
Everything you read on EF is only advice. In the end you need to find out what works for yourself. Personally, I've never had bad sides with nolva BUT it never recovered me worth a damn, so I base my recommendations on these personal experiences. Others have horrible sides with it and some even recover pretty well with it or with clomid. You have to figure it what works for you through trial and error
Nolva is less toxic with less sides than Clomid, and 20mg Nolva will raise LH, FSH, and test higher than 150mg of Clomid. Nolva even has some health benefits.
"you confused? how bout I stick your head through that window over there and make you un-confused?" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8MZZfj2m6Y
hahhaa. remember that Joe Pesci line from Casino? i had to sneak that in there
If you read the post i wrote then it will provide explanations... It didnt happen OVERNIGHT... Many of us have been conferring, testing, etc. to see if we may have had some things wrong or even misguided, thus, we concurred our assessments in the past may have been wrong... I apologized for any confusion and admitted some mistakes may have been made... If you cant accept that, especially after all i and many others have done here, then i dont know what to say... Its not about pushing nolva for sales... You think nolva is going to make anyone a million dollars by selling it? No... Actually its about caring that you are getting the best and most accurate info possible, which is exactly what i have always done for everyone...
tha_Waco_kid
New member
You guys provide tons of knowledge on here and help everyone out a great deal. Everyone appreciates that a great deal.....
......that being said, why not come on here and just be up front about why things like this change?
I really do have tons of love for the way you guys help out and give your time and knowledge to the good bros.....so I'm saying this with all due respect and I really mean that.
......that being said, why not come on here and just be up front about why things like this change?
I really do have tons of love for the way you guys help out and give your time and knowledge to the good bros.....so I'm saying this with all due respect and I really mean that.
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tha_Waco_kid
New member
"you confused? how bout I stick your head through that window over there and make you un-confused?" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8MZZfj2m6Y
hahhaa. remember that Joe Pesci line from Casino? i had to sneak that in there
One of my all time favorites!
bonacris
Banned
Its up too you guys to figure it out for yourself. Speaking from personal experience nolva made me feel like death.. I felt much better with clomid and otc test boosters.
Everyone will have a different take on it. I wont touch nolva again unless I have gyno
Sent from my GT-N7100 using EliteFitness
Everyone will have a different take on it. I wont touch nolva again unless I have gyno
Sent from my GT-N7100 using EliteFitness
Its just like anything else... some people will stand behind something all the way and others will have bad experiences... i know guys that can't take the mildest ph without sides and some guys that can dose tren 600 mg week without any sides at all... these vary from person to person... there are just things that needed to be cleared up and facts that were not properly given, and that's what i did... i will always feel nolva is better utilized to help with gyno but it can definitely provide benefits for some in pct... some people can't use clomid at all and vice versa... its a trial and error test...
Just Google Nolva vs Clomid and you will get all that info and then some. Its nothing new bro. Its been out there for years and years. Ask the big old school guys about Nolva, and they will tell you. Its been used since before the days of Arnold for a reason.
Here is an article I personally just put together for another forum recently after a lot of research. Its a big part of the reason I have changed my stance on Nolva:
Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) use with Anabolic Steroids
What is Nolvadex?
Nolvadex, or Tamoxifen Citrate is a prescription drug that is used to treat breast cancer in both men and women. It can also be used as a preventive measure for women more likely to develop breast cancer due to age, genetics, or other high risk factors.
Tamoxifen (Nolva) is an antagonist of the estrogen receptor in breast tissue via its active metabolite, hydroxytamoxifen. In other tissues such as the endometrium, it behaves as an agonist, and thus may be characterized as a mixed agonist/antagonist. Tamoxifen is the usual endocrine (anti-estrogen) therapy for hormone receptor-positive breast cancer in pre-menopausal women, and is also a standard in post-menopausal women although aromatase inhibitors are also frequently used in that setting.
Some breast cancer cells can require estrogen to grow. Estrogen binds to and activates the estrogen receptor in these cells. Tamoxifen is metabolized into compounds that also bind to the estrogen receptor but do not activate it. Because of this competitive antagonism, tamoxifen acts like a key broken off in the lock that prevents any other key from being inserted, preventing estrogen from binding to its receptor. As a result, breast cancer cell growth is blocked.
Tamoxifen was discovered by pharmaceutical company Imperial Chemical Industries (now AstraZeneca) and is sold under the trade names Nolvadex, Istubal, and Valodex. However, the drug, even before its patent expiration, was and still is widely referred to by its generic name "tamoxifen."
Estrogens effects on running anabolic steroids:
While running aromatising compounds, such as testosterone, aromatase in the male body will convert it to form estradiol. Too much estradiol (estrogen) in the male body can lead to several problems. The biggest problem being development of female breast tissue (gynocomastia) in men. Warning signs of this occurrence are usually associated with small lumps, swelling, puffiness and/or sensitivity in the nipple area. Without controlling this issue, things can worsen, often leading to surgery as the only way to reverse this condition. High estrogen also contributes to things like water retention and bloat leading to loss in definition and smoothing out your physical condition. Higher estrogen levels also contribute to fat gain. This is a big factor in why women typically have a higher bodyfat percentage than men.
The benefits of Nolvadex during an anabolic steroid cycle:
It is important to know that Nolvadex is a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM) and NOT an aromatose inhibitor (AI). Nolvadex does not lower your estrogen level, but works to keep estrogen from binding to receptors in the body.
With that said, many bodybuilders will use Nolvadex as a part of their steroid cycles.
1) Taking Nolva during cycle will not lower estrogen, but will keep estrogen from binding to receptors allowing one to run it in conjunction with multiple aromatising compounds without any issue. Since estrogen is necessary to build muscle, Nolvadex can be used on cycle to maximize gains without lowering estrogen and hindering muscle gain.
2) Nolvadex can contribute to fat burning. The effects are especially apparent with those that have very low body fat, as Nolva can significantly increase hardness and lower water retention on cycle, leading to a much more dry and shredded physique.
3) Health-It's widely known that steroid cycles can significantly put strain on your health and adversely affect your blood lipids. Estrogen is essential for a properly functioning immune system and lipid profile. Your immune system and lipid profile (both HDL and LDL) will both benefit from the administration of Nolvadex on cycle.
4) Some bodybuilders take human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG) at the end of a steroid cycle to jump start recovery. HCG, has a structure similar to that of luteinizing hormone (LH), a pituitary gland hormone that controls testosterone synthesis in the Leydig cells of the testes. The problem is, HCG stimulates estrogen synthesis as well as testosterone. So, bodybuilders often combine HCG with Nolvadex to prevent those estrogen side effects.
5) Gyno symptoms on cycle- Nolvadex exerts its effects faster than an aromatase inhibitor. So, when bodybuilders experience the symptoms of gynecomastia while they are on steroid cycle, they can rely on Nolvadex to immediately counter the problem. However, a drawback of this drug is that it exhibits only short-term effects, which means that once Nolvadex intake is discontinued, the same problems can possibly rebound sooner than later. To prevent this rebound, Nolvadex is generally use in conjunction with aromatase inhibitor. Nolvadex can deal with the problem right away while an aromatase inhibitor like Arimidex can work for the long-term results as it reduces the production of estrogen.
Nolvadex benefits for post cycle therapy (PCT):
Nolvadex can also have a VERY profound effect on recovery of the hypothalamus pituitary testicular axis (HPTA) post-cycle of running anabolic steroids. Significant increases in Luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle stimulating hormone (FSH), and testosterone are experienced with administration of Nolvadex in PCT. some research suggests that just 20mg of Nolvadex taken each day can raise testosterone by 150%. For reference and comparison, it would take roughly 150mg of Clomid each day to achieve the same level of result.
Nolvadex is also safer to use long term versus some of the other alternative ancillaries commonly used post cycle. Nolva has a much lower toxicity, and is just simply better suited for long term use without further having a negative impact on overall health, and even provides some nice health benefits.
The downside and negatives of Nolvadex:
1) As with any drug, Nolvadex does come with side effects, though they are generally very mild. Nausea, vomiting, and hot flashes are the most common.
2) Dosing Nolvadex too high can become counter productive, preventing natural production of testosterone by the testes along with increasing levels of estrogen instead of lowering them. This happens when the adrenal glands are over stimulated to produce more dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA). DHEA converts to estrogen.
3) reduction of IGF-1 levels- Nolva has been linked to reduced gains in some bodybuilders. This isn't due, as previously thought, to its reducing estrogen levels (which it doesn't), but rather to its ability to possibly reduce IGF (Insulin-like-Growth-Factor) levels, which are important for muscle growth.
The myth of using Nolva with 19-Nor Nandrolones:
There is a lot of conflicting information out there, and one of the biggest things being spread around is to not use Nolvadex during a cycle with nandrolones such as Tren or Deca, and not in PCT.The argument is that Nolva will up-regulate progesterone receptor activity, and since Nandrolones can increase progesterone levels, the combination leads to possible gyno problems.However, this is very far from the actual truth. (Nolva) Tamoxifen is a mixed ER agonist/antagonist as we said earlier and behaves as such.In certain tissues, such as the endometrium (uterus), upregulation of the PgR would be expected, since the endometrium is very sensitive to estrogen. This is where there is confusion that leads to the myth.In other tissues, such as the breast, Tamoxifen is an antagonist and blocks the estrogen receptor. The progesterone receptor is synthesized in direct response to estrogen. When the estrogen receptor is blocked, the progesterone receptor will also down regulate. This is exactly the mechanism of action that happens in cancer patients, so we can expect the same result.
There are no studies stating Tamoxifen up regulates the progesterone receptor in breast tissue, so its pure "bro-science" and speculation. As with most things on the Internet, if you spread false information around to enough people it eventually gets accepted as the truth.It is important to also note that Tamoxifen does nothing to combat prolactin. To control prolactin, caber or Prami is taken.
Nolvadex (Tamoxifen Citrate) use with Anabolic Steroids
What is Nolvadex?
Nolvadex, or Tamoxifen Citrate is a prescription drug that is used to treat breast cancer in both men and women. It can also be used as a preventive measure for women more likely to develop breast cancer due to age, genetics, or other high risk factors.
Tamoxifen (Nolva) is an antagonist of the estrogen receptor in breast tissue via its active metabolite, hydroxytamoxifen. In other tissues such as the endometrium, it behaves as an agonist, and thus may be characterized as a mixed agonist/antagonist. Tamoxifen is the usual endocrine (anti-estrogen) therapy for hormone receptor-positive breast cancer in pre-menopausal women, and is also a standard in post-menopausal women although aromatase inhibitors are also frequently used in that setting.
Some breast cancer cells can require estrogen to grow. Estrogen binds to and activates the estrogen receptor in these cells. Tamoxifen is metabolized into compounds that also bind to the estrogen receptor but do not activate it. Because of this competitive antagonism, tamoxifen acts like a key broken off in the lock that prevents any other key from being inserted, preventing estrogen from binding to its receptor. As a result, breast cancer cell growth is blocked.
Tamoxifen was discovered by pharmaceutical company Imperial Chemical Industries (now AstraZeneca) and is sold under the trade names Nolvadex, Istubal, and Valodex. However, the drug, even before its patent expiration, was and still is widely referred to by its generic name "tamoxifen."
Estrogens effects on running anabolic steroids:
While running aromatising compounds, such as testosterone, aromatase in the male body will convert it to form estradiol. Too much estradiol (estrogen) in the male body can lead to several problems. The biggest problem being development of female breast tissue (gynocomastia) in men. Warning signs of this occurrence are usually associated with small lumps, swelling, puffiness and/or sensitivity in the nipple area. Without controlling this issue, things can worsen, often leading to surgery as the only way to reverse this condition. High estrogen also contributes to things like water retention and bloat leading to loss in definition and smoothing out your physical condition. Higher estrogen levels also contribute to fat gain. This is a big factor in why women typically have a higher bodyfat percentage than men.
The benefits of Nolvadex during an anabolic steroid cycle:
It is important to know that Nolvadex is a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM) and NOT an aromatose inhibitor (AI). Nolvadex does not lower your estrogen level, but works to keep estrogen from binding to receptors in the body.
With that said, many bodybuilders will use Nolvadex as a part of their steroid cycles.
1) Taking Nolva during cycle will not lower estrogen, but will keep estrogen from binding to receptors allowing one to run it in conjunction with multiple aromatising compounds without any issue. Since estrogen is necessary to build muscle, Nolvadex can be used on cycle to maximize gains without lowering estrogen and hindering muscle gain.
2) Nolvadex can contribute to fat burning. The effects are especially apparent with those that have very low body fat, as Nolva can significantly increase hardness and lower water retention on cycle, leading to a much more dry and shredded physique.
3) Health-It's widely known that steroid cycles can significantly put strain on your health and adversely affect your blood lipids. Estrogen is essential for a properly functioning immune system and lipid profile. Your immune system and lipid profile (both HDL and LDL) will both benefit from the administration of Nolvadex on cycle.
4) Some bodybuilders take human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG) at the end of a steroid cycle to jump start recovery. HCG, has a structure similar to that of luteinizing hormone (LH), a pituitary gland hormone that controls testosterone synthesis in the Leydig cells of the testes. The problem is, HCG stimulates estrogen synthesis as well as testosterone. So, bodybuilders often combine HCG with Nolvadex to prevent those estrogen side effects.
5) Gyno symptoms on cycle- Nolvadex exerts its effects faster than an aromatase inhibitor. So, when bodybuilders experience the symptoms of gynecomastia while they are on steroid cycle, they can rely on Nolvadex to immediately counter the problem. However, a drawback of this drug is that it exhibits only short-term effects, which means that once Nolvadex intake is discontinued, the same problems can possibly rebound sooner than later. To prevent this rebound, Nolvadex is generally use in conjunction with aromatase inhibitor. Nolvadex can deal with the problem right away while an aromatase inhibitor like Arimidex can work for the long-term results as it reduces the production of estrogen.
Nolvadex benefits for post cycle therapy (PCT):
Nolvadex can also have a VERY profound effect on recovery of the hypothalamus pituitary testicular axis (HPTA) post-cycle of running anabolic steroids. Significant increases in Luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle stimulating hormone (FSH), and testosterone are experienced with administration of Nolvadex in PCT. some research suggests that just 20mg of Nolvadex taken each day can raise testosterone by 150%. For reference and comparison, it would take roughly 150mg of Clomid each day to achieve the same level of result.
Nolvadex is also safer to use long term versus some of the other alternative ancillaries commonly used post cycle. Nolva has a much lower toxicity, and is just simply better suited for long term use without further having a negative impact on overall health, and even provides some nice health benefits.
The downside and negatives of Nolvadex:
1) As with any drug, Nolvadex does come with side effects, though they are generally very mild. Nausea, vomiting, and hot flashes are the most common.
2) Dosing Nolvadex too high can become counter productive, preventing natural production of testosterone by the testes along with increasing levels of estrogen instead of lowering them. This happens when the adrenal glands are over stimulated to produce more dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA). DHEA converts to estrogen.
3) reduction of IGF-1 levels- Nolva has been linked to reduced gains in some bodybuilders. This isn't due, as previously thought, to its reducing estrogen levels (which it doesn't), but rather to its ability to possibly reduce IGF (Insulin-like-Growth-Factor) levels, which are important for muscle growth.
The myth of using Nolva with 19-Nor Nandrolones:
There is a lot of conflicting information out there, and one of the biggest things being spread around is to not use Nolvadex during a cycle with nandrolones such as Tren or Deca, and not in PCT.The argument is that Nolva will up-regulate progesterone receptor activity, and since Nandrolones can increase progesterone levels, the combination leads to possible gyno problems.However, this is very far from the actual truth. (Nolva) Tamoxifen is a mixed ER agonist/antagonist as we said earlier and behaves as such.In certain tissues, such as the endometrium (uterus), upregulation of the PgR would be expected, since the endometrium is very sensitive to estrogen. This is where there is confusion that leads to the myth.In other tissues, such as the breast, Tamoxifen is an antagonist and blocks the estrogen receptor. The progesterone receptor is synthesized in direct response to estrogen. When the estrogen receptor is blocked, the progesterone receptor will also down regulate. This is exactly the mechanism of action that happens in cancer patients, so we can expect the same result.
There are no studies stating Tamoxifen up regulates the progesterone receptor in breast tissue, so its pure "bro-science" and speculation. As with most things on the Internet, if you spread false information around to enough people it eventually gets accepted as the truth.It is important to also note that Tamoxifen does nothing to combat prolactin. To control prolactin, caber or Prami is taken.
Thanks for the great info bro... This is very informative and definitely sheds light on a lot of areas that needed to be addressed...
badboybounce
New member
think it be helpfull to post up new info to help ppl out as soon as known as i recently wasted $250 on transdermals after they wer recomended on here only to be told they are now shit n useless an i wasted my money wer as a post stating so would hav saved me my money
joonp
New member
A little advice....anytime someone recommends anything or states anything, even if its the president of he united states, well even more so lol question the motive or reasoning behind it. Gather info from multiple sources in order to make an informed decision for yourself. Emphasis on yourself.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using EliteFitness
joonp
New member
Did u try them for yourself? Or are u discounting them withput trying them b cuz i have heard they are good but need to be run at a higher dosage in order to account for some not being absorbed and ive heard they are shit. I plan on running them soon and will be keeping a log so if they are shot i will find out for myself. Everything is like a movie. Some will say its bad and some will say its good but the only way to really know is to find out. A couple hundred dollars isnt gonna break anyone
Sent from my SPH-L710 using EliteFitness
Not everyone was recommending those and that is a totally different concept... Those were fairly new and not a lot to back them up... I NEVER recommended those to anyone for that reason... Nolva is a much different concept as it has been around since the start of steroids... As soon a better perspective was given, I did not hesitate to admit being wrong and posting new information...
Idobehigh
New member
Are you talking about RSI transderm or are you talking about aas transderm? Not a lot of mods on here recommend aas transderm witch makes me think you are talking about RS?
Big Rick Rock
istrator
Guys,
Before the year 2000 there was NOTHING BUT NOLVADEX. Arnold and Ferigno did not have Aroma or Letro or even Arimidex. The one and only way to fight Gyno was and has been Nolvadex for ages now. It wasn't until between 2000 and 2002 that Arimidex became available at a whooping $10usd PER PILL!
Just an FYI for all you guys trying to shit on Dylan and Rick for spreading the info... Come to think of it, if Steroids like Dianabol have been used since the 60's and Arimidex did not come around to Bodybuilders until the year 2000 when it was the only other option besides Nolva... I guess you can say that Nolvadex has been used much longer as a stand alone Anti Gyno treatment than Arimidex, Aromasin or Letro ever have. At least 40 years of Nolvadex use by Bodybulders, well before Arimidex made an appearance in the Bodybuilding black market in the year 2000 some time. Aromasin and Letrozole are pretty new.
Back in the day, before cheap and readily available AIs were around, guys would measure their dosages carefully, stacking Masterone and/or Proviron with Test and/or Do-bol to ward off Gyno, while using Nolvadex as their go-to agent for treating symptoms as they appeared.
-BRR
Before the year 2000 there was NOTHING BUT NOLVADEX. Arnold and Ferigno did not have Aroma or Letro or even Arimidex. The one and only way to fight Gyno was and has been Nolvadex for ages now. It wasn't until between 2000 and 2002 that Arimidex became available at a whooping $10usd PER PILL!
Just an FYI for all you guys trying to shit on Dylan and Rick for spreading the info... Come to think of it, if Steroids like Dianabol have been used since the 60's and Arimidex did not come around to Bodybuilders until the year 2000 when it was the only other option besides Nolva... I guess you can say that Nolvadex has been used much longer as a stand alone Anti Gyno treatment than Arimidex, Aromasin or Letro ever have. At least 40 years of Nolvadex use by Bodybulders, well before Arimidex made an appearance in the Bodybuilding black market in the year 2000 some time. Aromasin and Letrozole are pretty new.
Back in the day, before cheap and readily available AIs were around, guys would measure their dosages carefully, stacking Masterone and/or Proviron with Test and/or Do-bol to ward off Gyno, while using Nolvadex as their go-to agent for treating symptoms as they appeared.
-BRR
I'm running the transdermals now and they are pretty amazing. Not sure who said they are shit...
NegroPops
Banned
Well.. now I see everyone jumping on the Nolva band wagon just because they read a post that supports it. This all goes back to people not knowing shit, but being an expert because they know how to copy and paste. I think there should be a rule of thumb that states you can only give your advice based on your own experience.
Actually Nolva didn't come into vogue until Dan Dunchaine introduced it to the bodybuilding world in the 80's.
Nolva was commonly used by bodybuilders in the 70s, but even if it was the 80s when it came into the mainstream, what difference does it make on the subject matter? It's still been used as a bodybuilding ancillary longer than any other in history. See BigRicks post above^
Big Rick Rock
istrator
I've had my experience with Nolva. I used it as my SERM of choice for all of my first cycles. I always recovered well on it, and had no sides.
Theres been a constant and on going battle of people saying they wont run a pct without it and others saying the sides are terrible... How many guys do you know that hate winstrol because of the sides?? A lot!! I happen to love it but im lucky enough to not get the sides...
Yes, "no one" got gynecomastia before 1970s - this must be fact because it's posted on EF. Good to know that guys who actually did train at Venice beach with Arnold (in the 70s 
) like Ric Drasin (he's 70 years old!) say otherwise.
Good to know that guys who actually did train at Venice beach with Arnold (in the 70s ) like Ric Drasin (he's 70 years old!) say otherwise.
Yes, "no one" got gynecomastia before 1970s - this must be fact because it's posted on EF.
I love Ric Drasin's vids. I've watched a ton of them, and I like the fact that he isn't afraid to be open and talk about everything from back in the day.
Yes, "no one" got gynecomastia before 1970s - this must be fact because it's posted on EF.
Not sure what you're saying about EF. But if you can conjure up a picture of anyone with gyno prior to 1977, I'll eat my words. Till then, I stand by them.
And if Franco knew about Nolva, why'd he get gyno? It's because no one knew about it until Dan Duchaine discovered its use for steroid using athletes in 1983.
I can vouch for Dbol 110%
and Arnold Schwarzenegger talked about using primoblan too.The types of gear were limited, but I've heard guys at that time running 'handfuls' of dbol (like 10+!) per day and many did have gyno. Not all bodybuilders are genetically gifted like Arnold or Lou.
Yes, that's the right way to prove something, ask for picture proof from 45+ years ago.
I'm guessing guys with mantits didn't pose for expensive photos 50 years ago.
Until the 10th century or so, people believe the earth was flat because no one knew about the facts; in fact, funny enough idiots still believe in unfounded stupidity to this day. There is even a Flat Earth Society that still believes the earth is flat:
http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/
rustilldown
New member
It takes a solid person to admit something they were preaching religiously was in fact incorrect.. And I give you props for that Dylan rather than sitting back on it and saying nothing. I'm not jumping on any wagon saying it is or isn't shit. What I will say is I have used nolva every time at 20mgs a day for as long as I felt necessary to recover. Never felt shitty, never felt depressed, and have had bloodwork done once or twice to show i had recovered fine... Nolva seems to dry me right out. I don't even use clomid most times just nolva and a cortisol blocker of some sort. ( I like rapid cuts ) I usually run 50 Mgs a day proviron also during pct ( yes shoot me everyone says it's suppressive. Doesn't suppress me ) I've used hcgenerate on cycle and liked it, ive used unleashed and liked it, and a little clen can go along ways too . post cycle I don't like I think maca fucks up my hormones, I don't like formastanzol much I think DIM fucks up my hormones, nor do I like and DAA product as it gives me a shitty stomach ( pun intended)
So you can see I think every person is individualistic in how he will respond to different chemicals , steroids ,dosage cycles and what not. The key is trial and error, bloodwork, and finding what works best for you. I ran test eq for 18 weeks a few years ago, and 4 weeks after starting pct I was ripped, horny energetic and largest I had ever been at the time, all I used was nolva. 20/20/20/20/10/10/5 .
Just my 2 cents.
So you can see I think every person is individualistic in how he will respond to different chemicals , steroids ,dosage cycles and what not. The key is trial and error, bloodwork, and finding what works best for you. I ran test eq for 18 weeks a few years ago, and 4 weeks after starting pct I was ripped, horny energetic and largest I had ever been at the time, all I used was nolva. 20/20/20/20/10/10/5 .
Just my 2 cents.
Thank you bro and i appreciate the response... Its very well said, especially the fact of people having different responses to different methods... A lot of things out there have a place but the problem is that many either misuse or dont understand what they are doing... Trial and error helps to understand your SELF SPECIFIC physiology and what your body will react to in different instances... What works for one is not a guarantee for others... It may be more likely for a majority but the only way to truly know is by trial and error and in that manner, you will learn your body and what it likes and does not like...
Peer Review after Peer Review have been written about nolva's great ability to control estrogen.
Nolva- Vs. AIs for estrogen control.
Using an aromatase inhibitor, estrogen levels still remain low, as we are actively preventing the body from doing what it's trying to do. That means the body will keep signaling for more estrogen while waiting for the testosterone levels to reduce. There's some suspicion that aromatase inhibitors make the body want to produce MORE aromatase, since it's not seeing the estrogen production increase that it's looking for. There's also potential for ending up with too little estrogen. Both of these scenarios can result in a rebound type effect where once the aromatase inhibitor is stopped, the body stays in overdrive trying to make estrogen, cause levels to spike (Pubmed).
SERM (selective estrogen receptor modulators). Instead of blocking the production of estrogen, SERMs block the effects of estrogen by preventing it from binding to estrogen receptors. Now the body doesn't know the activity of the estrogen is being blocked, so it's happy, thinking the balance between testosterone and estrogen is a-OK. IN theory, this provide for a more rapid return to stasis between the two hormones, since the body will naturally lower aromatase as testosterone levels return to normal (PubMed).
Remember, the body just outsmarts us and always strives to return to its normal state (homeostasis). Therefore, it appears a SERM would likely outsmart the body compared to an AI, which appears initiates homeostasis.
Consequently, a SERM would be way more beneficial to combat estro than an AI in almost every aspect.
Nolva- Vs. AIs for estrogen control.
Using an aromatase inhibitor, estrogen levels still remain low, as we are actively preventing the body from doing what it's trying to do. That means the body will keep signaling for more estrogen while waiting for the testosterone levels to reduce. There's some suspicion that aromatase inhibitors make the body want to produce MORE aromatase, since it's not seeing the estrogen production increase that it's looking for. There's also potential for ending up with too little estrogen. Both of these scenarios can result in a rebound type effect where once the aromatase inhibitor is stopped, the body stays in overdrive trying to make estrogen, cause levels to spike (Pubmed).
SERM (selective estrogen receptor modulators). Instead of blocking the production of estrogen, SERMs block the effects of estrogen by preventing it from binding to estrogen receptors. Now the body doesn't know the activity of the estrogen is being blocked, so it's happy, thinking the balance between testosterone and estrogen is a-OK. IN theory, this provide for a more rapid return to stasis between the two hormones, since the body will naturally lower aromatase as testosterone levels return to normal (PubMed).
Remember, the body just outsmarts us and always strives to return to its normal state (homeostasis). Therefore, it appears a SERM would likely outsmart the body compared to an AI, which appears initiates homeostasis.
Consequently, a SERM would be way more beneficial to combat estro than an AI in almost every aspect.
Lou Super Man 123
Banned
Amazing article man ¡THANKS A LOT!
Hey man, let's say that you are doing your first cycle ever and it is Test Enanth 500 mg a week, if you happen to use Nolvadex on cycle to control Estrogen levels, what dose would you use?
How does 10 mg ED sound to you?
Thanks man
Lou Super Man 123
Banned
This thread is amazing, pretty much everything what I have read on books and researches.
AI's are not the best option, especially because of the HDL/LDL shift they do, can't think of a kid doing a cycle of Test with an AI, eating simple sugars and high cholesterol foods, I almost feel the heart attack myself.
A Nolva + an AI combo is killer for Gyno but AI's are difinitely something to avoid as possible.
Killing estrogen is just wrong.
The other day a guy told me "From what I have read, you throw Nolva away" and I replied to him that it was a very very poor advice.
I thought I was going to get a truck full of crap after saying that, I'm happy that this thread exists.
Speaking of super compounds, HCG is the king for me, I would never do a cycle without HCG but Nolva is stupid amazing too!
AI's are not the best option, especially because of the HDL/LDL shift they do, can't think of a kid doing a cycle of Test with an AI, eating simple sugars and high cholesterol foods, I almost feel the heart attack myself.
A Nolva + an AI combo is killer for Gyno but AI's are difinitely something to avoid as possible.
Killing estrogen is just wrong.
The other day a guy told me "From what I have read, you throw Nolva away" and I replied to him that it was a very very poor advice.
I thought I was going to get a truck full of crap after saying that, I'm happy that this thread exists.
Speaking of super compounds, HCG is the king for me, I would never do a cycle without HCG but Nolva is stupid amazing too!
Bro, You and I are going to start a show called "Reality Check" LAYIN IT OUT FOR YOU TO PLAY IT OUT... =) Thanks, as always, for coming by and giving excellent info... It is always appreciated...
Yup some good information here
Thank you bro... I think there are a lot of underlying facts here that can be of a lot of help to others... I hope this has provided extra insight and an open mind to everyone... I also hope this shows that no matter what you know, there is CONSTANT LEARNING for all of us and that WE CAN ALWAYS IMPROVE... YOU CAN NEVER HAVE TO MUCH KNOWLEDGE AND UNDERSTANDING AND BEING ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THAT WILL LEAD TO A MUCH MORE SUCCESSFUL LIFE AND GOALS TO BE REACHED...
Lol. And we are going to make millions
. No problem, I'm glad I could help, or give my outlandish opinion. You know I developed a Dr. Mengele complex. Lol.Similar threads
