Bravo to Israel for not giving in!!!

[JohnyJuice]

maybe if the Palestinians received the billions in aid that the Israelis receive from the United States and Israel stopped taking away their recources, they would have those things which they presently lack.

Why don't any of their "muslom brothers" help them out? Oh yeah, this whole "muslim unity" is a crock of shit. They dont give a fuck about one another. Why should we give them cash, they seem to spend most of the excess money they have on weapons shipments. And what has Israel taken away?

 

[Zirakzigil]

maybe if the Palestinians received the billions in aid that the Israelis receive from the United States and Israel stopped taking away their recources, they would have those things which they presently lack.

This is not an argument. This is an unrelated statement. It has nothing to do with whether or not the Israelis should be cracking down on terrorism.

BUT: We give aid to Israel for three reasons.

1) Jews in the USA are a formidable political force.
2) Israel is a democracy. What little government the Palestinians have is autocratic.
3) Israel has the moral high ground. Once the Palestinians crack down on their suicide bombers, they might start gaining a moral position too.

 

[Zirakzigil]

BTW RyanH, I have to go now, but I wanted to say: you don't seem very informed about this issue (not trying to be a jackass) - go to the library, and pick out the most unbiased book you see. It'll be sort of hard to judge which ones are unbiased, so maybe read two or three of them - or a bunch, like I have. I believe you will come to the same conclusions I have:

1) The creation of the state of Israel was wrong.
2) Terrorism (attacks on innocent civilians designed to disrupt a way of life) is always wrong.
3) The Palestinians are being treated as pawns by the other Muslim nations in the region.
4) There will not be true peace for many decades.

 

[thebabydoc]

Is anyone beginning to see a common thread in ryan's bullshit?

Methinks he has been getting anal injections of camel semen.

 

[RyanH]

If you recall, Israeli agression after Sharon took office started because of a suicide bombing. Previously, the IDF had made no military overtures.

But anyway, I agree, the Palestinians live like rabble - but the irony is, they depend for what little they have, on jobs they do for the Israelis. Furthermore, they are being used as a pawn by the other Muslim nations - why do you think Jordan and Saudi Arabia won't let them immigrate?

Was it not the Israeli army that invaded the Jabaliya refugee camp in Gaza? Was it not Israeli tanks that were moved into Ramallah? Was it not the Israeli Army that continued a raid on Ramallha and otehr West Bank towns, including a helicopter attack that killed, if I remember correctly, three Palestinians?

Finally, President Bush isn't even sure what his policy is towards the conflict. One minute he says Israel should back off, the next minute he's condemning the Palestinians. Consistency from Washington, isn't it?

 

[vinylgroover]

The thing that gets me about this whole issue, is that in the space of 6 months, the suicide bombings which have been going on for two decades are suddenly being called acts of terrorism.

Prior to September 11, these acts were asssociated with fanatical zealouts and madmen, but no one called them acts of terrorism. It seems you can pretty much coin a phrase to suit your particular circumstance post September 11, especially incorporating the word 'terrorism' and use it as a justification for military action against defenceless civilians in order to gain a military, political or diplomatic stronghold in a given situation.

The whole situation is intractable, but people like George Bush ought to keep his mouth shut unless he has something useful to add, which at the moment, he doesn't.

Unfortunately, Yasser Arafat has little influence over the situation, therefore Israel is flogging a dead horse and they know it. Hezbollah and Hamas hold all the cards, and it is highly unlikely that they will rest until Israel is plunged into war.

 

[RyanH]

BUT: We give aid to Israel for three reasons.

1) Jews in the USA are a formidable political force.
2) Israel is a democracy. What little government the Palestinians have is autocratic.
3) Israel has the moral high ground. Once the Palestinians crack down on their suicide bombers, they might start gaining a moral position too.

Americans really reward democracy, don't we? That's why we are in bed with the Saudis and why we gave China most favored nation trade status (MFN).

I'm outta here for the night, I'm tired of arguing the facts.

Ryan.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Was it not the Israeli army that invaded the Jabaliya refugee camp in Gaza? Was it not Israeli tanks that were moved into Ramallah? Was it not the Israeli Army that continued a raid on Ramallha and otehr West Bank towns, including a helicopter attack that killed, if I remember correctly, three Palestinians?

NO. If you recall the facts, the sequence of events went:
1) Sharon visited the Temple Mount.
2) Suicide bombing and Palestinian attack.
3) IDF retaliation.
Get your facts straight, hoss.

Finally, President Bush isn't even sure what his policy is towards the conflict. One minute he says Israel should back off, the next minute he's condemning the Palestinians. Consistency from Washington, isn't it?

I agree. Why do you think I'm a Bush supporter?

Americans really reward democracy, don't we? That's why we are in bed with the Saudis and why we gave China most favored nation trade status (MFN).

Do you not comprehend simple logical statements? We in general reward democracy. That doesn't mean we don't reward other regimes - we reward other types of govts if they do something for us, c.f. Saudi oil and Chinese strategic location and production.

Seriously, dude - stop getting your facts off the web, and go read a few books at the library.

 

[Jimsbbc]

I read this whole thread and here is what I have to say:


I think that this is not going to get any better because everyone knows that Israel is not going to give land back to the Arabs for their word to keep the peace.

I also think Bush is right for requiring Arafat to denounce suicide bombing attacks (in arabic) to his people before calling on Israel to stop their aggression.

I was also impressed by Sharon and Barak after reading their address/statement about the situation. I think the Israelis are being sensible, while having a firm hand in this matter.

I honestly hope this situation will work out for the best as it hurts to see such a tragic loss of innocent life on BOTH sides.

 

[thebabydoc]

Leave it to Ryan to "argue the facts"

Since Sharon took office, Israeli aggression has increasingly grown
worse. The reason for the recent string of terrorist attacks can all be
attributed to Sharon's aggression.

Really! Is this yet another FACT, Ryan? Perhaps you should have said: "Since ARAFAT turned down Barak's offer to return 95% of the "occupied territories" in exchange for peace and formal recognition of the sovereign State of Israel..."
The REAL reason for the recent string of attacks is that many pussy-ass liberals are saying shit like "...the only way to end the terrorism to is to give the Palestinians the lands taken in the 1967 war..." So rather than deterring, we are reinforcing their behavior.

While terrorism should always be
condemned, it is the only solution to a large group of people who have
no hope, no land, and live as second inviduals all underneath the nose
of those who took away their land.

Of course, forget about peace talks where you are treated with the respect normally reserved for REALcountries.

the only way to end the terrorism to is to give the Palestinians the
lands taken in the 1967 war.

And what should the US have done in response to the September 11th attacks, asked for more KY?

What a fucking crock!!!! "Aggression?" Who the fuck are you kidding. Look at the facts. Every "act of aggression" by Israel has been PRECEEDED by an act of terrorism by palestinians. That makes it RETALIATION, not aggression. In this country's legal system it would be called deterrence.

Your use of language is akin to calling the death penalty "voluntary manslaughter."
Or taking a dick up the ass as "female impersonation."

BTW, nice avatar Ryan. Is that like an arm only smaller?
Or is that merely your Left Wing?

(guess who's on Ryan's ignore list?)