Biceps - Shocking Method

[goahead]

Medium high reps are usefull in converting type 2b cells into fast-twitch. Offcourse we are talkin about people that happen to have a lot of them 'intermediate' cells, pure red musclefibre will not contvert and grow much less than white fiber, HOWEVER they do grow and theror it would be usefull for people with more red thjan white fibers to LOW and HIGH reps. While the white fibers have more RELATIVER growth potential, if u have a lot of red fibers too, this outnumbers the whites and can give you ABSOLUTELY more musclemass...

21's some claim it's the bomb others say its just burn and lactic acid. My feeling is that you can do them best every now and than to get the best results from them


About the neurologic learning process. You shouldnt change your exercise too much otherwise indeed you have to learn again optimized recruitment patterns.

I think its best to stick to an exercise as long as you make reasonable progress with it.

Hwever some pro's claimed they could finally build a refined back when they threw in muscle confusion, doing different exercises all the time in random order and reps... Maybe this is for pro's only as you already have a "memory" of known and trained neurologic recruitment pathways and you need some special treatment to learn new tricks to the old dog.

 

[Cackerot69]

Nate:

It won't necessarily take 4-6 weeks to see any gains, but the MAJORITY of the gains in that period are entirely neurological. The gains you make AFTER the initial rapid gains are where it's at, these are gains from muscle growth. This is why it's best to stick to a program until gains stop, not when they slow, but when they completely stop.

High reps can build some muscle, but not to the degree of lower reps. anything over 15 is really pointless for our purposes.

Liberator:

"If this is the case with high reps at a higher speed, then why do Powerlifters including Westsides method advocate the use of high reps at high speed as a way of contributing to overall increasing poundages? Dont say we are not powerlifters, some of there routines make sense, we all want to increase weight right; due to the correlation between strength gain with weight gain. If you want to keep doing the same routine while at a sticking point in the hope that you'll eventually overcome it, then thats up to you."

This is a classic example of misinterpreting information. Westside does NOT advocate high reps with speed, rather low reps with high speed for multiple sets (i.e. 8x3 with 45 sec rests). The point in this is to increase force production through fiber recruitement. This training is not meant to stimulate muscle fibers, just to recruit them so they can be used in the max lift attempts, thus this method of training is not effective for hypertrophy. You're great at misintrepeting info I guess, bcuz I never said to stick to a routine if you are not progressing, I said to stick to the same routine until you can no longer progress.

"What is the difference between the generation of force through faster reps and the generation of force through slower reps?"

Well, it depends on the degree of effort. If you're still referring to the westside method, then the faster reps are meant to aid the max attempts by allowing more fiber to be recruited...but the fast reps are not meant to stimulate these fibers. I didn't quite understand the Q, though.

"Tell me this and then tell me the muscle doesnt know the difference between the two of them"

Muscle don't possess the ability to think, so how could they determine a difference with their non existent little brains between exercises? The nervous system adapts differently to diffrent stresses by altering MU recruitement patterns, intra and inter muscular coordination, etc...but muscle cannot differentiate between different exercises.

Goahead:

"Medium high reps are usefull in converting type 2b cells into fast-twitch. Offcourse we are
talkin about people that happen to have a lot of them 'intermediate' cells, pure red
musclefibre will not contvert and grow much less than white fiber, HOWEVER they do
grow and theror it would be usefull for people with more red thjan white fibers to LOW
and HIGH reps. While the white fibers have more RELATIVER growth potential, if u have a
lot of red fibers too, this outnumbers the whites and can give you ABSOLUTELY more
musclemass... "

2b cells are fast twitch, "intermediate" fibers are also fast twitch, they just have more oxidative capacity making them more slow twitch like, slow twitch or "red" fibers grow much less than fast twitch and even if they vastly outnumber the FT's the FT fibers will still result in more growth due to their much larger size potential. You know I really hate when people throw around these "scientific" terms when they don't even know what the hell they are talking about..no offense of course

 

[Liberator]

First of all that was a good post

So if muscles cannot differentiate between different exercises, how does muscle memory fit into all of this?

Say you trained for 2 years then stopped until you lost all of your gains, then went back and trained hard again, you would most likely get your gains far quicker

Is muscle memory just a myth, a poor way of describing experience or psychological adaption, you will know how to train, when to train, what to eat, when to eat, what works what doesnt, how to deal with the stress of training etc

or is it true, that there is a degree of muscle memory

Also how does the CNS deal with this, would it also be able to adapt more efficiently in this example than say a beginner because it has had to adapt to this stress in the past

 

[Cackerot69]

Muscle memory isn't a myth at all. When we train and grow our muscles increase the amount of nuclei they have, and these nuclei are what hold protein - in other words they allow muscle to be built. When we stop training our muscles shrink but the increased nuclei number stay which makes rapid growth possible.

Also, there are these fibers called MHC IIX, and when we train they become either type I or II, and when we stop training the number of these fibers increases...and this means we will have more fibers to make grow when we start training again.

The nervous system will have to re-learn the exercise again, which explains the rapid strength gains.

You will also have previous experience on what works for you, which further causes rapid growth.

 

[TheBandit]

Ronnie coleman is on so much gear he could look at a barbell and grow.

LOL good call

 

[Superbabe]

21's work cos they work the upper and lower insertions of the muscle before you dive into the full range of motion. When you work a muscle, there's three bits to muscle recruitment. One third of the muscle is used to shift the weight. If you're using free weights aprox. another third is used as stabilisers. The final third the body reserves, until the rest is knackered. 21's allow you to knacker the muscle so that by the time you get to the full range of movement the every muscle fibre is recruited . . . which means more hypertrophy, MORE GROWTH.

Secondly, they help with ligamental and connective strength, ie the bits that attach your muscle to your skeleton. If these bits aren't as strong or stronger than the muscle, it don't matter how strong the muscle is, it ain't gonna move. A chain is only as strong as the weakest link . . .

Lastly, don't throw a downer on getting a "pump". Increased blood flow to the muscle whilst working out helps to clear through toxins (such as lactic acid) and also allows a more efficient supply of oxygen and nutrients to the muscle, thus allowing it to work better.

Peace peoples.

 

[Cackerot69]

Since you're a superbabe I won't disect your post

 

[Superbabe]

Thanks Cackerot . . .

 

[blaster220]

Good debating, for sure!

 

[Robboe]

er...wtf?