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Guinness5.0
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I think pullups/cins are fantastic, especially once you can start adding weight to 'em.muscelove said:
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Best Lat Excercises
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Guinness5.0
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you haven't really said much specifically, just that pump/soreness are indicators of a good workout and that overload is defined by soreness. And that PL?OL have almost nothing in common with BBing.LT3 said:
What does good training look like in your opinion?
musketeer
New member
This thread is getting good! (well done for staying civil guys)
A year or so a go I would have been with LT3 and AAP, saying that pump, soreness and isolation/failure are key (at least I think that's the jist of what's been said) - Since I used to train bodyparts once a week and made what I believed were good gains from it. It was only when I discovered that olympic weightlifters trained up to 3x a day or 20x a week (!!!) that I began getting interested in the 5x5. The oly guys were all being tested 3 or more time a year, so any drug use had to be kept small and therefore would be condsiered a synergist as opposed to the main cause of strength gain. They have to come in at the right weight class, and actually RESTRICTED their diets in order to NOT gain weight in the offseason. Here I was stuffing myself with food, hiting each muscle as hard as I could once a week and being sore for 3-4 days for each bodypart, (which meant something was killing me all of the time) and not looking or feeling or being anywhere near as strong as the guys who were training 'wrong' in my book. If the oly lifters eat BIG and added a few more exercises to their routines, they would be huge great bodybuilders with awesome stregth to boot - with very little steroid use.
A year or so a go I would have been with LT3 and AAP, saying that pump, soreness and isolation/failure are key (at least I think that's the jist of what's been said) - Since I used to train bodyparts once a week and made what I believed were good gains from it. It was only when I discovered that olympic weightlifters trained up to 3x a day or 20x a week (!!!) that I began getting interested in the 5x5. The oly guys were all being tested 3 or more time a year, so any drug use had to be kept small and therefore would be condsiered a synergist as opposed to the main cause of strength gain. They have to come in at the right weight class, and actually RESTRICTED their diets in order to NOT gain weight in the offseason. Here I was stuffing myself with food, hiting each muscle as hard as I could once a week and being sore for 3-4 days for each bodypart, (which meant something was killing me all of the time) and not looking or feeling or being anywhere near as strong as the guys who were training 'wrong' in my book. If the oly lifters eat BIG and added a few more exercises to their routines, they would be huge great bodybuilders with awesome stregth to boot - with very little steroid use.
Protobuilder
New member
What a fun thread! You can usually tell who the truly knowledgeable people are b/c they are the least likely to be idealogues about their training methods. The more you learn, the more you come to realize that diff't programs work for diff't people and although human bodies must all follow the same gen'l laws, there may be multiple methods, all of which work, and all of which will get you to your goal.
The 5x5 is great but even madcow and Glenn have said it's just one way to grow and that it's great (a) for packing on mass on beginners & intermediates, and (2) for it's value in teaching people how to design/adjust programs in general (e.g., it's a great teaching tool b/c most people have crappy knowledge from BB'ing mags, etc.). I think lots of trad'l bodybuilding folks are following supercompensation splits that are, obviously, working for them. But they want that style of work and that style of growth. They may specifically avoid a compound exercise b/c it's too taxing and they prefer to use more isolation-type exercises to fully exhaust each specific muscle. If it's working for them, that's awesome. And I'd say it does work for quite a few people. Here's the thing -- you can continue following the "5x5" principle of adding weight to the bar (i.e., progression) AND still follow an old-school BB'r split. There are plenty of valid reasons for NOT sticking to a strict 5x5 program and I'd say this is especially true for the pure bodybuilders among us who truly care only about aesthetics. But if you're a 160 pound guy who wants to get on stage, you could probably gain a lot of mass in general from a 5x5. However, if you're already nearing that professional level, you may not want the 5x5, heavy compounds, over and over style.
My point is that the 5x5 is fantastic for lots of people, obviously, but it's still just another training style and although it's principles are sound, just b/c you're doing iso/hypertrophy work doesn't mean you're automatically IGNORING the gen'l principles that come out of the 5x5.
FWIW -- I like BB rows and chins. LoL But I'm pretty scrawny so can't say that they are the only way to get big.
The 5x5 is great but even madcow and Glenn have said it's just one way to grow and that it's great (a) for packing on mass on beginners & intermediates, and (2) for it's value in teaching people how to design/adjust programs in general (e.g., it's a great teaching tool b/c most people have crappy knowledge from BB'ing mags, etc.). I think lots of trad'l bodybuilding folks are following supercompensation splits that are, obviously, working for them. But they want that style of work and that style of growth. They may specifically avoid a compound exercise b/c it's too taxing and they prefer to use more isolation-type exercises to fully exhaust each specific muscle. If it's working for them, that's awesome. And I'd say it does work for quite a few people. Here's the thing -- you can continue following the "5x5" principle of adding weight to the bar (i.e., progression) AND still follow an old-school BB'r split. There are plenty of valid reasons for NOT sticking to a strict 5x5 program and I'd say this is especially true for the pure bodybuilders among us who truly care only about aesthetics. But if you're a 160 pound guy who wants to get on stage, you could probably gain a lot of mass in general from a 5x5. However, if you're already nearing that professional level, you may not want the 5x5, heavy compounds, over and over style.
My point is that the 5x5 is fantastic for lots of people, obviously, but it's still just another training style and although it's principles are sound, just b/c you're doing iso/hypertrophy work doesn't mean you're automatically IGNORING the gen'l principles that come out of the 5x5.
FWIW -- I like BB rows and chins. LoL But I'm pretty scrawny so can't say that they are the only way to get big.
musketeer
New member
Oh yeah,
out of respect to my fellow ef members, I tried 4 sets of cable rows at the end of my routine today and they really blasted my lats. Theyt got me right up in the armpits and at the base of the lat down by the waist. At the same time I got a pump going on in my rhomboids area, and was able to arch my lower back to fully open the lats which means my errectors got a tonic workout too.
out of respect to my fellow ef members, I tried 4 sets of cable rows at the end of my routine today and they really blasted my lats. Theyt got me right up in the armpits and at the base of the lat down by the waist. At the same time I got a pump going on in my rhomboids area, and was able to arch my lower back to fully open the lats which means my errectors got a tonic workout too.
Guinness5.0
New member
And to reiterate, I only got my panties in a bunch b/c I thought comparing a squat to a cable row was way out of place. i still do but I didn't call them useless 
.
.Question on cable rows: Sometimes I like to use 2 seperate handles for a better squeeze. Do you guys insist on leaning forward and getting a good stretch? Is that necessary, or shouly my primary focus be squeezing my lats as I contract?
BTW, I am a lover of both rowing types.
Also, can somebody please answer my question??
What is a gorilla grip??????
BTW, I am a lover of both rowing types.
Also, can somebody please answer my question??
What is a gorilla grip??????
musketeer
New member
IF you are gonna do cable rows:
The best cable row hand placing is probably the one where tour hand are about 20 inches appart. This seems to really allow a full contraction where the hands are pulled all of the way to the sternum. A close grip may encourage the lats to stretch a little more.
The best cable row hand placing is probably the one where tour hand are about 20 inches appart. This seems to really allow a full contraction where the hands are pulled all of the way to the sternum. A close grip may encourage the lats to stretch a little more.
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