Bench press, what do you think...

[pwr_machine]

...causes my elbows to flare back towards the spotter during the ascent. It's clearly visible on reps 2-5.

http://www.angelfire.com/scary/pwr_machine/benchpress8-7-03.wmv

Could it be my shoulders overcompensating? I've always had very large front delts from my days of boxing.

 

[spatts]

Looks like your upper back isn't staying tight, your chest is doing more work than your legs, and your elbows are way out to the sides...like a bodybuilder. So if you're trying to work your chest and put stress on your shoulders, you're right on track.

 

[pwr_machine]

Looks like your upper back isn't staying tight, your chest is doing more work than your legs, and your elbows are way out to the sides...like a bodybuilder. So if you're trying to work your chest and put stress on your shoulders, you're right on track.

Good observation. Even in my powerlifting days, that's how I benched. I never could tuck my elbows. I practiced just the other day as a matter of fact, and in the position it put my wrists I just couldn't handle anything over 2 plates without a fair amount of pain. I guess I'll just try to steady things up and sit back to watch my chest grow. I'm sure I was just a little shaky because that was only my 2nd chest workout after a 1 month layoff.

 

[pwr_machine]

remember to squezze you shoulder blades together and keep the elbows tucked, took me a long time to get this and even now I always bench like a BB

I definately squeeze the hell out of my shoulder blades. The elbows tucked thing just doesn't stick with me. Oh well.

 

[Lord_Suston]

remember to squezze you shoulder blades together and keep the elbows tucked, took me a long time to get this and even now I always bench like a BB

 

[spatts]

....but he's a bodybuilder. lol

 

[pwr_machine]

....but he's a bodybuilder. lol

A wannabe... Or should I say soontobe?

 

[Exodus]

for keeping tight........ the best thing i recomend is to squeeze the bar as tight as possible. that seems to help me a lot.

but for a bodybuilder you look like a good solid bench.

X

 

[pwr_machine]

Thanks for the responses. It's just something that popped in my head and I'm curious about.

 

[Lord_Suston]

Now don't go making fun of a little boxer li

 

[Lord_Suston]

ke that... I got my groove when I realize I was trying to press the bar up toward my head and not straight up from where it touched. I tucked some more and hit some decent number as least to me they were

 

[pwr_machine]

I'm sure I'd get more out of a shirt if I ever put one on again. The thought is definately in the back of my mind and there just happens to be a meet on October 18th that Bigguns15 will be lifting in. Heck, I'll already be there. But I guess for now, be happy and work on steadying things up.

 

[pwr_machine]

I'd have my work cut out for me. It would be Joe Ladnier's meet and I refuse to bench in anything other than a single ply polyester. I'd be against the guys wearing suits of armor ready to hand my ass to me.

 

[Exodus]

why will you only bench in a single poly???

X

 

[pwr_machine]

why will you only bench in a single poly???

X

Personal goals. I won't touch anything else until I'm a 500+ pound bencher. It irritates me when I see 300 and 400 pound attempts in a double denim or something of the sort. <-- my opinion only.

 

[Exodus]

hey im with you on that, that does make sense.... but what about mendelson....... he benched his 875 in a double........ do you think if he had a tripple it would have helped???

and again, the sport of powerlifting is about using whatever means neccesary to move the heaviest weight from point a to point b within the rules.......... so wouldnt it be more logical to get the better shirt.......

(im not busting your chops, just in the mood for a debate)

X

 

[PolishHammer1977]

I see your elbow shooting out to the side in a circular pattern on your concentric. The pattern becomes more apparent with each repitition.

Do you see it? It scares me man.

 

[pwr_machine]

hey im with you on that, that does make sense.... but what about mendelson....... he benched his 875 in a double........ do you think if he had a tripple it would have helped???

and again, the sport of powerlifting is about using whatever means neccesary to move the heaviest weight from point a to point b within the rules.......... so wouldnt it be more logical to get the better shirt.......

(im not busting your chops, just in the mood for a debate)

X

Alright, I'm ready. I'm very impressed with Mendelson's bench. 875 is a tremendous amount of weight! However, I'm more impressed with the lighter guys pushing more pound for pound. I'm even more impressed with lifters moving HUGE weights in single ply and those that are definately drug free.

And again, this is a personal issue for me. I like singly ply because it does help take the pressure off my shoulders when I get to heavy weight as a competition gets closer. My biceps tendons up near my shoulders are usually shot after a few weeks of heavy training and the shirt relieves that pain. On top of that, if the shirt tears, I know it's a weight that I can push back up without being sliced in half. Usually what I can pause with a shirt is what I can touch and go with no shirt.

 

[pwr_machine]

I see your elbow shooting out to the side in a circular pattern on your concentric. The pattern becomes more apparent with each repitition.

Do you see it? It scares me man.

I see it. It doesn't scare me because I've pretty much always benched this way.

 

[pwr_machine]

I would advise keeping the bench place as strict and straight as possible.

Good luck man.

Any particular reason why?

Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer to see a steadier motion too and I will be working on that. Again, that was my 2nd workout after a 1 month layoff so I'm pretty sure it will steady up a bit as these next few weeks pass. Thanks for the advice.

 

[PolishHammer1977]

I see it. It doesn't scare me because I've pretty much always benched this way.

I would advise keeping the bench place as strict and straight as possible.

Good luck man.

 

[Exodus]

yeah i see your point........ but even for lighter guys.... like i dont know what kinda shirt tina rhienheart were at the bench america where she trippled her bodyweight. but say she was in a single poly, do you think she should get the best shirt available.... then maybe she could do a 4 x bdy bench???

X

 

[PolishHammer1977]

Any particular reason why?

Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer to see a steadier motion too and I will be working on that. Again, that was my 2nd workout after a 1 month layoff so I'm pretty sure it will steady up a bit as these next few weeks pass. Thanks for the advice.

You are lifting about 300-305 lbs with a major fault line in the motion. It is not smooth. If that was your second workout in some time I would think that you would want to focus on reintroducing your body to the weights and solid form. Lighter weights and improved form.

You lower the weight perfectly
the concentric begins in a circular motion (NO GOOD)
you raise the weight
(just to recap)

When I bench I go straight doen and straight up. there is no cicular pattern. I have only seen this pattern when myself or someone else was lifting too much or they didn't have the form.

 

[pwr_machine]

You lower the weight perfectly
the concentric begins in a circular motion (NO GOOD)
you raise the weight
(just to recap)

I will be putting some thought into it. Right now, I'm just looking for the weak link. It appears to me that my elbows move up, in line with my shoulders which I believe are stronger and overcompensate to move the weight.

I'm not really concerned with rather or not the circular motion is good or bad. So far it's been good to me. I'm getting stronger, chest is growing, and I'm remaining injury free. I'd just like to find the weak link and begin working on that.

 

[pwr_machine]

yeah i see your point........ but even for lighter guys.... like i dont know what kinda shirt tina rhienheart were at the bench america where she trippled her bodyweight. but say she was in a single poly, do you think she should get the best shirt available.... then maybe she could do a 4 x bdy bench???

X

At her level, use whatever means possible to move the weight. For me, I still have the 500 pound landmark to tackle before I consider a different shirt.

 

[pwr_machine]

Another thought...maybe on or off topic.

I often hear about rotator cuff injuries from bench press. I've never had any problems nor have I ever known anyone with a problem. I've worked with 100's of lifters and have yet to encounter a single rotator cuff injury. Just a thought that I found interesting as I watch my bench press and seek a small change in form.

 

[spatts]

A lot of benchers that go high and wide (elbows) are also using a wide grip, which decreases shoulder rotation.

I think your weak link is your form. If you're not trying to lift a lot of weight then why should it matter if you have optimal leverage? If your game is hypertrophy you should be asking about how much it targets you chest, or this or that.

 

[pwr_machine]

A lot of benchers that go high and wide (elbows) are also using a wide grip, which decreases shoulder rotation.

I think your weak link is your form. If you're not trying to lift a lot of weight then why should it matter if you have optimal leverage? If your game is hypertrophy you should be asking about how much it targets you chest, or this or that.

Even with my elbows flailing in the wind as I bench, I think I've been able to keep up with the game of hypertrophy. (check out the new avatar) I'll just keep plugging away and get the kinks worked out over the course of the next few weeks.

Thanks for the responses everyone.

 

[spatts]

Do pardon, but why did you ask for our opinion?

 

[pwr_machine]

For that reason...to ask everyone's opinion. With asking, I got everyone's opinion and recall even thanking everyone for their opinion. Like I said, I'll just keep plugging away and get the kinks worked out over the course of the next few weeks. Possible lighter weight, maybe a slight change in bar path, etc. What's the confusion, Spatts?

 

[bigguns15]

It appears to me that my elbows move up, in line with my shoulders which I believe are stronger and overcompensate to move the weight.

I'm not really concerned with rather or not the circular motion is good or bad. So far it's been good to me. I'm getting stronger, chest is growing, and I'm remaining injury free. I'd just like to find the weak link and begin working on that.

I think you are right on here. I would agree that your shoulders are stronger and trying to compensate. This is something to think about during your next bench session... keeping your elbows tight (not necessarilly in) during the concentric phase. Just thinking about my weak points helps me out.

Keep up the good work. I'm very eager to see the gains you'll be making in the next few weeks.

 

[pwr_machine]

This is something to think about during your next bench session... keeping your elbows tight (not necessarilly in) during the concentric phase. Just thinking about my weak points helps me out.

Keep up the good work. I'm very eager to see the gains you'll be making in the next few weeks.

Thanks. I'll add that to my things to do list. You know, this is going to be my best training cycle ever if I can remain free from biceps tendonitis for a change. I look forward to the next few weeks also.

 

[spatts]

Why do you have bicep tendonitis?

How many years have you been training to bench heavy and what's your 1 rep max in competition (single ply, yadda yadda yadda)?

Does bigguns bench just like you?

 

[pwr_machine]

Why do you have bicep tendonitis?

Years of abuse and the impatience to properly rest it. The last bout of tendonitis flared up after my last boxing match in April and I kept trying to train around it. Stupid mistake that I'll never make again. I'm being much more preventative now with stretching and ice after each workout.

It's also been pointed out to me by a friend (an athletic trainer), that when I stand in the anatomical position, my forearms are not inline with my upper arms. They angle outward considerably. I think this is why I have such a problem tucking my elbows, in turn, putting a huge amount of pressure on my wrists because of the crazy angle I have to assume.

How many years have you been training to bench heavy and what's your 1 rep max in competition (single ply, yadda yadda yadda)?

I've been training about 7 years. Started as a light 181 and made it up to a light 242. I did 415 in a single ply poly at 217 last year. I'm a bit stronger now and look forward to possibly competing in bench press only again.

Does bigguns bench just like you?

Not at all. I wouldn't want her to. She has much more potential than I do. She's on the edge of being number one against some of the greatest lifters in the nation. With that, there is a chance to go to worlds again and experience even greater lifting. I'll do everything I can to get her numbers up on a consistent, safe basis.

In the meantime, I like to take a moment to look for little things in my own lifts that I'd like to fix.

 

[Liftbig]

i didint get to see the video, it wont D/L for me, but im curious how your unracking the bar anyways. this can make or break your setup, and send your form in the shitter. what i do is i squeeze the bar out of the racks, with my lats. almost like a pullover of sorts. i let the handoff guy get the bar up to me. i worry about setting up right. pulling the bar out with your lats, with your elbows tucked will put you in the correct postion from the get go. after the handoff guy lets go, hold for a split second, and start your descent. if you just push the bar straight up out of the racks and then bring the bar out over your chest, you wont be set up right, and its much harder to set your lats and keep tight on the bench.

 

[pwr_machine]

i didint get to see the video, it wont D/L for me, but im curious how your unracking the bar anyways. this can make or break your setup, and send your form in the shitter. what i do is i squeeze the bar out of the racks, with my lats. almost like a pullover of sorts. i let the handoff guy get the bar up to me. i worry about setting up right. pulling the bar out with your lats, with your elbows tucked will put you in the correct postion from the get go. after the handoff guy lets go, hold for a split second, and start your descent. if you just push the bar straight up out of the racks and then bring the bar out over your chest, you wont be set up right, and its much harder to set your lats and keep tight on the bench.

The video is temporarily unavailable, but should be back up in an hour or so. That's the price I pay for a free website. I generally set up ok, especially when I have a good hand off. I'd even venture to say that I have pretty good form. I was just looking for the weak link and the reason my shoulders flare like they do. Tucking my elbows more than what is in the video is very uncomfortable.

 

[revexrevex]

I got the same problem bro. I thought it could be due to weak triceps, once it gets to the point where triceps take over, the elbows tend to flare out to the sides to compensate for the tricep weakness, and the load is distributed on delts and on the chest. Some people can just power through that sticking point with their triceps, and some can't, and thats when the elbows start to dance.

 

[slinky]

When I had actually got to sit down and talk to Ryan Kennelly; who, btw, is a extremely approachable fella. I told him my "weak area" of the bench is at the chest. I had thought it was due to weak front delts; he agreed.

It was due to my past way of benching. That was the typical style for hypertrophy. Ryan suggested I do work on a slight arch (and told me how to use a PVC pipe to do this, btw) and that would help in taking out SOME front delt work. However, I'm working to build more strength in that area...just in case

I just have to take that "bodybuilding" way of thought out of my bench and create more of a "power lifting" mindset.

Overall, very helpful thread.

 

[MULE1]

"Alright, I'm ready. I'm very impressed with Mendelson's bench. 875 is a tremendous amount of weight! However, I'm more impressed with the lighter guys pushing more pound for pound. I'm even more impressed with lifters moving HUGE weights in single ply and those that are definately drug free. "


Yes and I'd much rather watch snail races than football, or better yet, lets go watch butter melt....

By the way your form is in need of a great deal of work if your keep benching like that your gonna hurt youself, actually I'm surprised you have not already...

Another observation if your body building why are you not using weight you can control better, this way you could do smooth controled reps, your more or less bouncing the weight . I think you would get more of a chest w/o if you used weight you could control and conract the muscle.

The circular motion is a bad sign I would be willing to bet you need work on the bicep tendon and brachialis, not sure if I spelled that right, try some hammer curls, you are having trouble stabelizing the weight

 

[MULE1]

"I'm not really concerned with rather or not the circular motion is good or bad. So far it's been good to me. I'm getting stronger, chest is growing, and I'm remaining injury free. I'd just like to find the weak link and begin working on that."



You've only done two chest w/o's...you wont get away with that when you start lifting heavy

 

[BigWh1tey]

Your form is pretty poor both from a bodybuilding and/or powerlifting perspective. What are you trying to acheive benching like that ? It looks like all the stress is on your pec/delt tie-in , I have a feeling your gonna feel the zipper soon if you increase to even a moderate weight.

 

[pwr_machine]

I'm almost speechless from those that are busting my ass for asking a simple freakin question! If you don't have something positive and helpful to say, then shut the hell up!

 

[spatts]

You have 2 of the best benchers in the world telling you that your form needs work, and gave your own safety and progress as concerns. I hate to play devil's advocate, but you did ask for opinions.

 

[pwr_machine]

You have 2 of the best benchers in the world telling you that your form needs work, and gave your own safety and progress as concerns. I hate to play devil's advocate, but you did ask for opinions.

I'm looking for the weak link. Obviously, I see it and others see it. I've benched this way for 7 years light and heavy. I've never been injured from it nor do I expect to be injured from it. I just want to know if it's my shoulders overcompensating, a weak area that might be fixed with something like pullovers, etc.

 

[louden_swain]

How is his form poor? I didn't see any bouncing and nasty arching.

Not everyone is benching like a powerlifter. . .bodybuilding bench presses are totally different.

Based of the video I saw, it looked like the delts were adjusting at the bottom. This can be strengthened and modified.

I respect pwr_machines hard work and he is making progress.

FOLKS. . .HE IS NO LONGER POWERLIFTING!!!!

If anything he can lower the weights and focus on the form.

 

[pwr_machine]

How is his form poor? I didn't see any bouncing and nasty arching.

Not everyone is benching like a powerlifter. . .bodybuilding bench presses are totally different.

Based of the video I saw, it looked like the delts were adjusting at the bottom. This can be strengthened and modified.

I respect pwr_machines hard work and he is making progress.

FOLKS. . .HE IS NO LONGER POWERLIFTING!!!!

If anything he can lower the weights and focus on the form.

Exactly. Thanks Louden.

 

[louden_swain]

pwr_machine,

When I used to bench press, I had the same problem at the bottom. I think that people with longer limbs and are benching with elbows out face this. . .I see it on a number of trainers.

At your height, your delts and triceps must be strong (as you know).

A 415lb bench press is no joke!!!

 

[pwr_machine]

pwr_machine,

When I used to bench press, I had the same problem at the bottom. I think that people with longer limbs and are benching with elbows out face this. . .I see it on a number of trainers.

At your height, your delts and triceps must be strong (as you know).

A 415lb bench press is no joke!!!

I agree that my delts are strong and I rarely have problems on the lockout. If I get it moving, I will finish it. I'm guessing that my body is looking for the strongest muscles to move the weight. With that said, there must be something that's weaker. I'm looking for it so I can fix it.

 

[louden_swain]

I agree that my delts are strong and I rarely have problems on the lockout. If I get it moving, I will finish it. I'm guessing that my body is looking for the strongest muscles to move the weight. With that said, there must be something that's weaker. I'm looking for it so I can fix it.

Lockout out is the hardest thing for me .

 

[pwr_machine]

[your more or less bouncing the weight . I think you would get more of a chest w/o if you used weight you could control and conract the muscle.

I've never nor will I ever bounce the weight off my chest!

 

[louden_swain]

I am sorry. . but I don't see bouncing.

I see touch and go. We can probably find some pictures or a video of someone who is bouncing.

 

[spatts]

We're not giving him powerlifting advice. As a matter of fact, at the top of the thread, I prefaced my statements by reminding everyone that he is training for bodybuilding.

If he's not trying to be a powerlifter, why is he asking about bench competitions and leverage, and finding his weak link to lift more weight? A few of us have asked why his concern isn't on his chest, or some other hypertrophy specific issue WRT his bench. No answer. Someone who wants to do a bench comp, bench 500 pounds, and remain injury free, all while building more mass, is not going to get there benching with that form. Period. If that form worked, he would've been at 500 years ago. I don't mean that in a pointed way, I mean it literally. 7 years is a long ass time to still be in that range, even with a single ply poly. There is obviously a weakness, and he knows it, or he wouldn't be asking about it.

We have said repeatedly that his form is the issue. Someone told him the circular motion at the bottom (and whatever is causing that circular motion) is part of the problem and he replied with a rather "you don't know what you're talking about:"

I'm not really concerned with rather or not the circular motion is good or bad. So far it's been good to me. I'm getting stronger, chest is growing, and I'm remaining injury free. I'd just like to find the weak link and begin working on that.

Basically he said: I don't care about the circular motion that may be my weak link, I just want to find my weak link.

WRT the elbow tucking, how can you NOT tuck your elbows? Your two biggest issues here are the circular thing at the bottom, which is probably lats, and this elbow thing. If you can stand with your arms against your body and bend them to 90 degrees, then you can do it laying down too. This form critique was ruled out in post #4.

So what are we supposed to tell you? The obligatory, "Good work man! Keep the numbers coming! Stay strong!"

Bottom line, IMO, if you want to be a body builder start asking about your chest development and use less weight. If you want to bench 500, do a bench comp, etc...then take the quality advice and get better form.

 

[PolishHammer1977]

I'm almost speechless from those that are busting my ass for asking a simple freakin question! If you don't have something positive and helpful to say, then shut the hell up!

Honestly, if you only knew who some of us were man.



Were here to help you never to hurt you.

 

[pwr_machine]

We're not giving him powerlifting advice. As a matter of fact, at the top of the thread, I prefaced my statements by reminding everyone that he is training for bodybuilding.

If he's not trying to be a powerlifter, why is he asking about bench competitions and leverage, and finding his weak link to lift more weight?

Over the course of the last few years, I trained like a powerlifter. I tried lifting heavy weights...low and behold, I grew. Right now, I'm not particularly training for powerlifting. But if I get stronger along the way, I'll take it.

A few of us have asked why his concern isn't on his chest, or some other hypertrophy specific issue WRT his bench. No answer. Someone who wants to do a bench comp, bench 500 pounds, and remain injury free, all while building more mass, is not going to get there benching with that form. Period.

Would you think that's why I asked the question? Here's an example, someone comes up to me and asks to critique a lift. I watch the lift and make a few suggestions on what I think they can improve. I don't immediately jump into basically saying you suck and your form sucks. I try to help the lifter as much as I can with constructive criticism. That's how I view the greatest lifters and coaches responding.

If that form worked, he would've been at 500 years ago. I don't mean that in a pointed way, I mean it literally. 7 years is a long ass time to still be in that range, even with a single ply poly.

That was just plain rude. Those 7 years powerlifting were all drug free. I also started out at a very light bodyweight and more of an endurance athlete with boxing, running, etc. I'm also 6' so I have a pretty good range of motion, but also know that I can carry more size and it will come with time. Most of the big benchers that everyone gets so excited about have been heavier since high school or even earlier. I haven't. I'm playing this game with the deck of cards that I have been dealt.

We have said repeatedly that his form is the issue. Someone told him the circular motion at the bottom (and whatever is causing that circular motion) is part of the problem and he replied with a rather "you don't know what you're talking about:"

Basically he said: I don't care about the circular motion that may be my weak link, I just want to find my weak link.

I saw the circular motion. I am very aware of it. I just want to know what's causing it, not just see it. PolishHammer and I have since agreed that it might be my shoulder girdle that is overcompensating. That's what I want to hear. The root of the problem.

So what are we supposed to tell you? The obligatory, "Good work man! Keep the numbers coming! Stay strong!"

That's not what I'm looking for, but I am looking for a bit more than "your form sucks".

Bottom line, IMO, if you want to be a body builder start asking about your chest development and use less weight. If you want to bench 500, do a bench comp, etc...your words not mine, then take the quality advice and get better form.

I said numerous times in this thread that I'll be working on things over the course of the next few weeks.

 

[pwr_machine]

Honestly, if you only knew who some of use were man.



Were here to help you never to hurt you.

I think some of you are, but I think there is a tactful way to approach the subject. It's not saying your form sucks and you'll never be a good lifter. Thanks for grasping what I have asked in the original post.

 

[PolishHammer1977]

to more clear,

you have strong shoulders. lucky for your sake right now that it is strong enough to handle what it being put upon it.

you may have to back-track and work the chest, over and over until the whole ENTIRE area is caught up entirely. It is a lengthy process but the results speak for themselves.

Based on your upper back development I would think about putting a ratio into your workouts to compensate for this weakness.

 

[pwr_machine]

to more clear,

you have strong shoulders. lucky for your sake right now that it is strong enough to handle what it being put upon it.

you may have to back-track and work the chest, over and over until the whole ENTIRE area is caught up entirely. It is a lengthy process but the results speak for themselves.

Based on your upper back development I would think about putting a ratio into your workouts to compensate for this weakness.

Thanks. You make some really good suggestions.

 

[Screwball]

pwr_machine,

Perhaps you should follow the advice of the only person that really matters to you. YOU... I've read more than a few of your postings where you ask for advice and then you disregard or belittle the advice you were given. Your approach is alienating some of the more valuable resources on this board and I'm sure it will be to your detriment. Good luck!

 

[pwr_machine]

pwr_machine,

Perhaps you should follow the advice of the only person that really matters to you. YOU... I've read more than a few of your postings where you ask for advice and then you disregard or belittle the advice you were given. Your approach is alienating some of the more valuable resources on this board and I'm sure it will be to your detriment. Good luck!

I can't think of anytime that I have done this. I value all constructive and helpful comments, tips, and advice. Sure, I may disagree, but I have reasons for that. Just because I disagree doesn't mean I don't value the opinions of others.

 

[spatts]

You don't listen to tact, pwr_machine. I wish you could see yourself from our shoes. You seem like someone with a shit load of potential that's too damn bullheaded to take a critique. Someone tactfully told you about form and the circular motion, and you basically said, "I don't care," in so many words. You said it had always worked for you. If it worked for you, then why are you asking? As you refused and refused tactful advice, people got fed up and took a more abraisive approach.

I meant what I said about your bench numbers. If you think that what you're lifting was ok because you were drug free and in single ply, then you're selling youself short. Man, you have a GREAT base! What could you do if you listened now and then? I see so many people making excuses for their lifts because they're drug free. They get a mindset that it's ok to expect a ceiling because they're not juiced.

So many coaches are like you. They are SO good at teaching that they get defensive when they have to be taught...and I don't mean defensive in a testy way, but resistant to advice. For example, saying the circular thing doesn't bother you and that you don't like to (can't?) tuck your elbows. How bout this: If you tucked your elbows, it would probably SOLVE the circular problem by stabalizing your range of motion through LAT RECRUITMENT. Kill two birds with one stone.

Please be more open minded to advice. I hate asking for help too, but I do it. I hate having to be retold shit over and over again. I hate it when people don't recognize how far I've come in a short time, etc...but if you stop learning, you stop improving.

Since you're picking and choosing the kind of advice you want to hear, I want to now pick and choose your reply:

"Interesting observation. I will try tucking my elbows and using my lats more to bench and see if it helps."

Not:

"No, that doesn't work for me as well as what I'm doing now."

 

[pwr_machine]

Since you're picking and choosing the kind of advice you want to hear, I want to now pick and choose your reply:

"Interesting observation. I will try tucking my elbows and using my lats more to bench and see if it helps."

Not:

"No, that doesn't work for me as well as what I'm doing now."

I tried benching this way. I would love to be able to bench this way. I can clearly see the benefits for benching this way for strength. But, it HURT to bench this way. The anatomical structure of my arms makes it more difficult for me to tuck my elbows in this manner. So, it seems that I am stuck with the form I have and wanted to know what was causing the circular motion so I could try and fix it.

 

[sinjinsmythe33]

i know very little compared to most of the people on this board, but even barry bonds, the best offensive player in baseball in the last forty years has a personal hitting instructor. they work together on a daily basis and bonds continues to refine his swing and make history. abrasive critcism can still be constructive, its all in how you take it. best of all, its free! good luck.

 

[spatts]

So, it seems that I am stuck with the form I have and wanted to know what was causing the circular motion so I could try and fix it.

...and I'm telling you that it's your lats, and that you could probably improve that by tucking your elbows and/or strengthening your lats. If your form is your weak link, and you can't do what you need to do to change it due to your anatomy, then there's your answer: The problem is your anatomy.

What's wrong with the anatomical structure of your arms, btw?

 

[pwr_machine]

...and I'm telling you that it's your lats, and that you could probably improve that by tucking your elbows and/or strengthening your lats. If your form is your weak link, and you can't do what you need to do to change it due to your anatomy, then there's your answer: The problem is your anatomy.

What's wrong with the anatomical structure of your arms, btw?

Thanks. That's what I was looking for. Come to think of it, my lats could be a weak point. I will make an effort to bring those up. I haven't trained my back in a while because of the bicep tendonitis I was experiencing. I just recently started training my back again.

When I'm in the anatomical position, my forearms are not in a straight line with my upper arm. My forearms extend away from my body. When I tuck my elbows in, it forces me to change the position of my hands on the bar and that put a tremendous amount of pressure on my wrists.

 

[spatts]

Come to think of it, my lats could be a weak point.

Augh! That's what I've been saying!!!!!!!


lol

 

[bigguns15]

Yes and I'd much rather watch snail races than football, or better yet, lets go watch butter melt....

So let me get this straight... you are comparing watching the lighter guys bench to watching snail races and watching drug free single ply lifters to watching butter melt?

 

[Liftbig]

personally bigguns, and i dont mean to disrespect your lifting for being drug-free(i still am too) but i could care less what someone uses or does to put up the numbers they do. i want to see the big lifts, i want to perform the big lifts. i hate hearing people say they do this or that, and oh yeah im drug free, so its ok that im not lifting as much as the guys/gals that do. thats a crock of shit and you and pwrmachine both know it. pwrmachine im going to tell you the truth, a 415 bench is good, but its not great, you are capable of so much more, more than you think. and you dont have to use drugs or single ply to do it. you have one of the greatest resources of training knolwedge in this board, there are numerous elite and world class lifters, mule is one of the best benchers in the world, and im telling you he knows his shit. take his advice, you WILL benefit. stop being so close minded about taking advice from some of us, maybe its becuase some of us choose to use drugs, or "crazy ply" shirts. if someone like mule told me my technique was terrible, i would ask him how i can change it! not tell him to say something nice or shut the hell up. im glad you guys are here, but as long as you're here, use all the resources you have! we all want to see you succeed, it doesnt matter if we like you or not, you're a fellow lifter and i want to see you improve yourself. and i want to see bigguns set world records, and if we all have to be harsh and tell you like it is, and stop being so politically correct, then maybe thats what we need to do.

 

[pwr_machine]

I've gathered enough info for now to begin working on my bench. In fact, I bench press on Thursday and hope to see a difference. I've already thanked everyone for their input and respect your opinions.

I have to clear something up because it appears to be taking a turn where I don't want it to. I have nothing, absolutely nothing, against drug free or drug using lifters. I've never once meant to indicate that I only bench 415 because I'm clean. There are so many other factors there. I went from 165 to 235. That was a long road to travel over 7 years. In those years, I've been working on 2 graduate degrees...master's and doctoral. That's a struggle in itself that can make you slack on training here and there. In those years, I also got the urge to do some boxing because it's a brutal sport that I love. That plays a role in strength gains due to the amount of cardio I had to perform. In no way do I see 415 as the limit to my bench press. I just took a longer road than some to get my numbers up. It wouldn't have mattered if I were clean or using, the road would have been a long one due to numerous factors. That doesn't emply that I see the end of the road.

In regards to crazy ply gear, that is purely personal choice. It's a personal goal. For me, not anyone else. I will bench 500 before I put on anything other than a single ply poly. Your goals may differ from mine, but that's a goal I chose for myself and no one else.

if someone (it doesn't matter who to me) told me my technique was terrible, i would ask him how i can change it! not tell him to say something nice or shut the hell up.

I saw the problem and asked what's causing it. It's easy to sit back and say "hmm, dat ain't right". Well aren't you the rocket scientist. Tell me how to fix it. After several pages of replies, I think we got on the right track. Like I said earlier, I recognize some things that might help improve my bench and I'll try to get things worked out over the course of the next few weeks.

I have no idea why the thread took such a negative turn as I was being as polite as possible in responding to each post with thanks. I just kept the thread moving because I needed an answer. I need more than "poor form" or the you'll never make it with this form attitude. I simply wanted to know what biomechanically makes my elbows flare on bench press. And, I finally got some answers.

 

[Liftbig]

ok. i saw the vid, and your defianatly not staying tight. go back and reread my post about taking the bar out of the rack. i think it will help you alot. and rememeber youve got to keep not just your shoulder blades and traps tight, but your lats must be tight as well, and squeezed in hard, or you will lose your tightness in the bottom the the bench which is why your elbows flare out almost immediatly.

 

[pwr_machine]

ok. i saw the vid, and your defianatly not staying tight. go back and reread my post about taking the bar out of the rack. i think it will help you alot. and rememeber youve got to keep not just your shoulder blades and traps tight, but your lats must be tight as well, and squeezed in hard, or you will lose your tightness in the bottom the the bench which is why your elbows flare out almost immediatly.

Thanks. Those are some of the things I will be working on.

 

[Liftbig]

thats what i like to hear. now get to work!

 

[MULE1]

PWR amchine let me say something real quick.....
1. what the fuck are your goals to powerlift or body buid

2. benching heavy weight and getting maximum defined muscle growth require two diffrent techniques.

3. You stated you want to bench 500lbs. i assume raw and I'm telling you now if you use the same technique I saw in that video, you better stock up on anti biotics and a new zipper for that pec cause its gonna blow, ask Bill Kazmier, Glenn Chabbot and anyone else who has benched heavy like that.

4.In order to stop the cirular crap you need to strengthen your brachialus period end of story. Try it do hammer curls for a mointh 5-6 sets heavy weight and tell me if that does not help.

5. Louden is right your technique is not bad for body building but benching 500lbs with this style is a bad idea, I'm sure it coulkd be done , without injury is another story

^. just because you have not been injured using this technique is like saying I drive my car 120 mph everywhere I go and have never been in an accident, wait it wwill be a big one.

7. If you don't want help don't ask. I personaly tell it how it is without candycoating it, your an adult experienced lifter you should be able to handle it. If you want your ego stroked just post , hey look I did 350 for 10 , we will all say congrats. When you ask for opinions thats what you will get.

 

[MULE1]

That was just plain rude. Those 7 years powerlifting were all drug free. I also started out at a very light bodyweight and more of an endurance athlete with boxing, running, etc. I'm also 6' so I have a pretty good range of motion, but also know that I can carry more size and it will come with time. Most of the big benchers that everyone gets so excited about have been heavier since high school or even earlier. I haven't. I'm playing this game with the deck of cards that I have been dealt.

This is bullshit, your making genetic esxcuses for your self, I had a 181 lb 25 yr old kid, lew einfalt DRUG FREE since we are all soconcerned with this squat 655 bench 465 almost gopt 505 and d/l 555
DRUG FREE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yes he was tested...

 

[pwr_machine]

PWR amchine let me say something real quick.....
1. what the fuck are your goals to powerlift or body buid

2. benching heavy weight and getting maximum defined muscle growth require two diffrent techniques.

3. You stated you want to bench 500lbs. i assume raw and I'm telling you now if you use the same technique I saw in that video, you better stock up on anti biotics and a new zipper for that pec cause its gonna blow, ask Bill Kazmier, Glenn Chabbot and anyone else who has benched heavy like that.

4.In order to stop the cirular crap you need to strengthen your brachialus period end of story. Try it do hammer curls for a mointh 5-6 sets heavy weight and tell me if that does not help.

5. Louden is right your technique is not bad for body building but benching 500lbs with this style is a bad idea, I'm sure it coulkd be done , without injury is another story

^. just because you have not been injured using this technique is like saying I drive my car 120 mph everywhere I go and have never been in an accident, wait it wwill be a big one.

7. If you don't want help don't ask. I personaly tell it how it is without candycoating it, your an adult experienced lifter you should be able to handle it. If you want your ego stroked just post , hey look I did 350 for 10 , we will all say congrats. When you ask for opinions thats what you will get.

Everyone knows that my goals have changed from powerlifting to bodybuilding due to lower back problems. And, yes, I'll probably do a bench meet here and there for fun. As I've already stated over a dozen times, I'm taking everyone's suggestions and working on it as early as tomorrow with my regular chest workout.

I asked a question and it took alot of beating around the bush to get answers. But guess what, I have answers finally. As I've already stated over a dozen times, I'm taking everyone's suggestions and working on it as early as tomorrow with my regular chest workout.

 

[pwr_machine]

That was just plain rude. Those 7 years powerlifting were all drug free. I also started out at a very light bodyweight and more of an endurance athlete with boxing, running, etc. I'm also 6' so I have a pretty good range of motion, but also know that I can carry more size and it will come with time. Most of the big benchers that everyone gets so excited about have been heavier since high school or even earlier. I haven't. I'm playing this game with the deck of cards that I have been dealt.

This is bullshit, your making genetic esxcuses for your self, I had a 181 lb 25 yr old kid, lew einfalt DRUG FREE since we are all soconcerned with this squat 655 bench 465 almost gopt 505 and d/l 555
DRUG FREE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yes he was tested...

Good for him. I would congratulate him if I saw him. Well, I know a 165 lber that can bench 465 and squat over 700 drug free. Now, I know I can be a great lifter too. Those aren't genetic excuses. Those are facts. You will rarely come across an endurance athlete with a skinny build that can move alot of weight. That's what I'm saying. I went from running 3-6 miles per day and boxing 2 hours a night to weight training. That's a whole different sport. I couldn't just hit the ground running and pull off 400, much less a 300 pound bench. It took a little time to get adjusted. Even in an earlier post, I stated a few other factors that come into play and still do. They're not excuses. They're milestones in my life that I am trying to tackle while having fun weight training. Is that so bad? As I've already stated over a dozen times, I'm taking everyone's suggestions and working on it as early as tomorrow with my regular chest workout.

 

[pwr_machine]

Just an added thought, meaning no harm.

As a lifter and coach, I use tact in the way I respond to questions. I try to remain polite and thank you for what you have shared. To me, that's the way to go about things as a mature adult. It's not candycoated, it's tactful.

Let's try a common approach. Mule, your bench form sucks. Your legs are pulled up behind your knees and you wobble all over the bench. You'll never get 815 lifting like that! Fix it!

I meant no harm in that statement because you have been successful in the bench press.

However, this is how I would prefer to respond if I truly had something to say. Mule, I noticed that when you missed 815 you were a little wobbly on the bench. Do you think getting your feet flat on the floor to steady yourself and provide a little leg drive would have helped?

Then, he would respond accordingly.

No need to answer the questions. That was purely an example of a logical way to approach a lifter as a coach and as a helper.

This thread was started asking a question about what causes my elbows to flare. Several people gave their opinions and I agreed to put those to work starting Thursday. Then others decided to beat a dead horse and just keep pounding words at me like I've done something wrong for asking a question. It was a simple question of biomechanics and suggestions for fixing the problem. Thanks to those that grasped what I was trying to ask. I apologize for some of the responses as many of you reading this post may have a similar problem. As I've already stated over a dozen times, I'm taking everyone's suggestions and working on it as early as tomorrow with my regular chest workout.

 

[Screwball]

pwr_machine,

I'll take "Lost Cause" for $200, please.

You are a riot. I think you and your wife should start your own forum and post to each other how wonderful your training is going and how no one else has a clue on how to train. I think you will be a lot happier having someone tell you what you want to hear. Your training should improve and the amount of stress in your life should decrease. Just a thought...

 

[bigguns15]

pwr_machine,

I'll take "Lost Cause" for $200, please.

You are a riot. I think you and your wife should start your own forum and post to each other how wonderful your training is going and how no one else has a clue on how to train. I think you will be a lot happier having someone tell you what you want to hear. Your training should improve and the amount of stress in your life should decrease. Just a thought...

WTF!! Don't you bring me into this! I take every piece of advice I get to heart and think about it. I value all the quality comments I have gotten so far. The only reason I'm on here is to learn. That being said, I'm not going to run out and do everything some jackass tells me to do. I need more than just someone's word.

My form has changed so much since I've been on here. It has been such a resource to have other experienced people look at my form and give me feedback, and I think my lifts are improving because of that. I've been gracious to everyone for even taking the time to look at my videos and post their thoughts on them. I can't speak for pwr_machine, but that's how I feel.

So thanks so much for insulting me. It means so much.

 

[Screwball]

I thought everyone loved Jeopardy? Hmmm, I guess not.

I would respond but it really doesn't matter anyway, does it? Keep on, keepin' on and good luck to you.

 

[bigguns15]

personally bigguns, and i dont mean to disrespect your lifting for being drug-free(i still am too) but i could care less what someone uses or does to put up the numbers they do. i want to see the big lifts, i want to perform the big lifts. i hate hearing people say they do this or that, and oh yeah im drug free, so its ok that im not lifting as much as the guys/gals that do. thats a crock of shit and you and pwrmachine both know it...

...and i want to see bigguns set world records, and if we all have to be harsh and tell you like it is, and stop being so politically correct, then maybe thats what we need to do.

I don't think I have ever tried to use my drug free status as a crutch to say I can't lift more. In fact, I've done the opposite. I want to beat everybody!

I just got a little offended that someone compared watching drug free lifting to watching butter melt, as if the only exciting part of powerlifting are the big guys doing the big weight. I like watching the big guys as well, but as one of little drug free people, I like watching them too.

 

[MULE1]

You know whats funny PwrMachine Bill Crawford said to me after I missed 815, you stupid fat fuck your feet are way to close to the bench your wobbleing all over the fucking place, I said, thanks Bill C. I'll make sure I get my feet out more.

Bill C. tells me my form sucks just about everytime he sees me, My form is better than 90% of the benchers out there, but if I refined it more I would be hitting alot more.
But I don't look at Bill and go gee wilikers Bill could you please be nice when you tell me my form sucks, holy shit man grow up

 

[MULE1]

Let's try a common approach. Mule, your bench form sucks. Your legs are pulled up behind your knees and you wobble all over the bench. You'll never get 815 lifting like that! Fix it!


One comment putting your feet flat on the floor , will cause you to loose leg drive, my feet were to close to the bench this is what caused me to wobble, center of gravity was to close . Also by forcing your feet behind your knees, locks your hips into place so your ass wont come up:

By the way my man, you dind't hurt my feelings by posting your comment. If you told me my mom was an ugly bitch, well that would bother me

 

[MULE1]

I asked a question and it took alot of beating around the bush to get answers. But guess what, I have answers finally. As I've already stated over a dozen times, I'm taking everyone's suggestions and working on it as early as tomorrow with my regular chest workout.


That a boy now go hit those hammer curls heavy and do some big lat pulls and rows and your probem will be solved...

Here is to 500 my man, when you get it I'll send you a cold one in the mail. Do yourself a favor fuck that poly shirt allit's gonna do is fuck up your shoulders by forcing them foreward....get a denim single ply and bench 600!!!!!!!!

 

[pwr_machine]

pwr_machine,

I'll take "Lost Cause" for $200, please.

You are a riot. I think you and your wife should start your own forum and post to each other how wonderful your training is going and how no one else has a clue on how to train. I think you will be a lot happier having someone tell you what you want to hear. Your training should improve and the amount of stress in your life should decrease. Just a thought...

I'll take "Fat Ass Comedians" for $1000, please.

Where the hell in this post do you get the impression that my training is the best and no one else has a clue how to train? If I knew everything, would I have asked the question about my bench press?

 

[pwr_machine]

Bill C. tells me my form sucks just about everytime he sees me, My form is better than 90% of the benchers out there, but if I refined it more I would be hitting alot more.
But I don't look at Bill and go gee wilikers Bill could you please be nice when you tell me my form sucks, holy shit man grow up

You guys are trying hard to twist and bend my words into more than what they are. You're very clever eh. You just stated exactly my argument. Your form sucks, but Bill C. also tells you how to fix it. My concern was that I initially got "you have poor form", but no indication how to fix. Again, after a few pages of beating around the bush, I got answers on how to make some good adjustments. And thanks to everyone for that. I'll be working on it.

 

[pwr_machine]

IHere is to 500 my man, when you get it I'll send you a cold one in the mail.

I'll be expecting a cold one in the future. I'm partial to Guinness, St. Pauli Girl Dark, and Blackened Voodoo.

 

[benchmonster]

Pwr Machine, you are becoming quite the running joke around here. You ask for advice, then shit all over the people who give it to you. And you are getting advice from Elite level lifters, but that, I guess is not good enough for you cause they are not nut swingers like Louden who just tell you how great you are.

I benched 550 at 247 about 2 months or so ago. I was very excited about that as it set a state record in the APF. Someone who went to the meet was kind enough to film it, and put the video up on this site. I messaged the video link to Sebastian Burns (perhaps you have heard of him, Mule knows him) and sat back waiting for all the praise in the world cause I had gone from a 355 bench to a 550 bench in under 2 years of training time. . .

Well, I am going to be waiting a long time, cause Sebastian spent the next 20 minutes telling me what awful form I had. Told me right then and there that I was leaving 50 lbs on the platform cause of my piss poor form. He was not nice about it, but as I am not a sniveling little bitch, I took what he was saying to heart, and have worked on getting better.

At my next comp, I will bench over 600 lbs. There is no doubt about this. But it would have been difficult, if not impossible to do so if I was so hard headed that I did not take advice from those who know better.

You know what? Fuck Mule and his 700 plus bench, fuck Spatts and her training knowledge, fuck everyone else on this thread who have tried in vain to be helpful. You just stick to your poly shirts, and ever so clean lifestyle and best of luck to you on that 500 bench.

Keep those elbows high, cause you are somehow physically incapable of doing something so complex as holding an elbow close to the body, stay away from those denim shirts, cause of course, it is just the shirt that does the work, unless of course that shirt is a single ply poly, and just go on knowing everything about everything.

Oh, and just so we are clear. I am being hateful, I am being a smartass, and everyone who has responded to you thinking you are a jackass is right. Also, I am completely clean at the moment, have far more ring experience than you could possibly have, and would gladly accept any physical challenge you could throw down.

To some of the members who have been around for more than a fortnight, I think we have found our new SSAlexSS

B.

 

[bigguns15]

Pwr Machine, you are becoming quite the running joke around here. You ask for advice, then shit all over the people who give it to you. And you are getting advice from Elite level lifters, but that, I guess is not good enough for you cause they are not nut swingers like Louden who just tell you how great you are.

I benched 550 at 247 about 2 months or so ago. I was very excited about that as it set a state record in the APF. Someone who went to the meet was kind enough to film it, and put the video up on this site. I messaged the video link to Sebastian Burns (perhaps you have heard of him, Mule knows him) and sat back waiting for all the praise in the world cause I had gone from a 355 bench to a 550 bench in under 2 years of training time. . .

Well, I am going to be waiting a long time, cause Sebastian spent the next 20 minutes telling me what awful form I had. Told me right then and there that I was leaving 50 lbs on the platform cause of my piss poor form. He was not nice about it, but as I am not a sniveling little bitch, I took what he was saying to heart, and have worked on getting better.

At my next comp, I will bench over 600 lbs. There is no doubt about this. But it would have been difficult, if not impossible to do so if I was so hard headed that I did not take advice from those who know better.

You know what? Fuck Mule and his 700 plus bench, fuck Spatts and her training knowledge, fuck everyone else on this thread who have tried in vain to be helpful. You just stick to your poly shirts, and ever so clean lifestyle and best of luck to you on that 500 bench.

Keep those elbows high, cause you are somehow physically incapable of doing something so complex as holding an elbow close to the body, stay away from those denim shirts, cause of course, it is just the shirt that does the work, unless of course that shirt is a single ply poly, and just go on knowing everything about everything.

Oh, and just so we are clear. I am being hateful, I am being a smartass, and everyone who has responded to you thinking you are a jackass is right. Also, I am completely clean at the moment, have far more ring experience than you could possibly have, and would gladly accept any physical challenge you could throw down.

To some of the members who have been around for more than a fortnight, I think we have found our new SSAlesSS

B.

Why do you have to post crap like this. He is taking their advice, he is going to make changes. What's your problem? And what is so bad about lifting clean in single ply gear?

 

[pwr_machine]

Ok "Benchmonster", you've said quite enough. I see your point. But obviously you missed mine. I took what everyone told me and said as I've already stated over a dozen times, I'm taking everyone's suggestions and working on it as early as tomorrow with my regular chest workout. Did you catch that this time around? With that said, I took the advice of Elite level lifters and will put it to work soon. Still following me?

Congrats on your 550 at 247. That's a good bench. Good luck with 600. Maybe I could clear this up a bit for you too. I'll be working on mine too. As I've already stated over a dozen times, I'm taking everyone's suggestions and working on it as early as tomorrow with my regular chest workout.

And I think you missed this part too. It's not the fact that my form may have sucked, it's the fact I wasn't being told how to fix it. Since then, I have been enlightened. As I've already stated over a dozen times, I'm taking everyone's suggestions and working on it as early as tomorrow with my regular chest workout.

And you're disappointed by the fact I have personal goals to wear single ply shirts for the time being? I'm sure you have personal goals too, but I'm far from disappointed that your goals aren't the same as mine.

Originally posted by benchmonster Oh, and just so we are clear. I am being hateful, I am being a smartass, and everyone who has responded to you thinking you are a jackass is right. Also, I am completely clean at the moment, have far more ring experience than you could possibly have, and would gladly accept any physical challenge you could throw down.

Another comedian. I almost pissed my pants after reading that one! Funny stuff. I tell ya what, save your breath for the day we cross paths in person. If we don't have that opportunity, chalk this up as a "sit-behind-your-computer win" and the glory goes to you.

Anyway, as I've already stated over a dozen times, I'm taking everyone's suggestions and working on it as early as tomorrow with my regular chest workout.

 

[louden_swain]

Benchmonster,

You are way out of line. First of all pwr_machine never said anything about reaching a 500lb bench. For the last fucking time, he isn't a powerlifter. . he is training for bodybuilding!!!! He asked a simple question, then everyone who thinks they are hot shit decides to make negative comments.

Also you think a 550lb pound bench is good for 247lbs?? There are high schools students who are much lighter who are able to put up better bench to bodyweight ratios. Thats what a lot of big boys forget about ratios. . . besides how is your overall athletic ability? Can you out wrestle someone, swim, run, or bike?? Just because you are a good bench presser doesn't mean you are a supreme athlete. Thats a whole another can of worms.

I happen to live in the same state with you and I would be interested in watching you compete. After the attitude you display towards certain members. . .I am wondering if you are like this in person. Maybe the whole thing is a huge misunderstanding.

Think about this stuff.

For now, it is time to get back to the original question. Everyone has forgotten that pwr_machine is training for bodybuilding.

Any weaknesses he has can be corrected.

 

[benchmonster]

I find it hard to believe that you could not understand why a person would have a problem with what pwr machine has been doing, but oh well, I guess maybe you don't see what everyone else does.

And re: having a problem with clean and single ply, I could care less what anyone else puts in or on their body, the clean freaks and single ply fanatics are the ones who get bent out of shape over that stuff.

I lift in the open division with the real men. If someone outlifts me, he outlifts me. Whether it is cause he is stronger, gets more out of his gear, or whatever, I make no excuses.

You won't hear a serious lifter hide behind such things as "he had multi layers, or he has better juice"

B.

 

[pwr_machine]

And Mule, Spatts, Louden, Bigguns, PolishHammer and others that have tried to help...thank you. I may even try to get another video up one of these days that shows that I've put your suggestions to use.

 

[pwr_machine]

I find it hard to believe that you could not understand why a person would have a problem with what pwr machine has been doing, but oh well, I guess maybe you don't see what everyone else does.

State this problem clearly. Enlighten me.

And re: having a problem with clean and single ply, I could care less what anyone else puts in or on their body, the clean freaks and single ply fanatics are the ones who get bent out of shape over that stuff.

I lift in the open division with the real men. If someone outlifts me, he outlifts me. Whether it is cause he is stronger, gets more out of his gear, or whatever, I make no excuses.

You won't hear a serious lifter hide behind such things as "he had multi layers, or he has better juice"

B.

I never said that I have anything against anything other than single ply gear nor juice. I'm making a switch from powerlifting to bodybuilding because of lower back injuries. If I can grab an occasional bench only meet, I will. I'd like to bench 500 one day in a single ply shirt. That's my personal goal. I could careless what the other competitors or wearing or how much juice they are taking. It is my personal goal to bench 500 in a single ply shirt. That's plain as day to me.

 

[spatts]

Louden, pwr_machine mentioned doing a bench comp soon and having the ultimate goal of 500. Perhaps you need to reread the thread.

...and I wouldn't get started on benchmonsters athleticism. We may have the next UFC champ on our hands.

Pwr_machine, I think you got your answers. This thread is tired.