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Any creationists on the board?
- Thread starter EnderJE
- Start date
dang.
It's not a book per see. It's a collection of religious articles and op/ed papers that outline why global warming and evolution is just a myth. It also outlines how we (not the sun) are the center of the universe. Amazing stuff. Almost Jonestown type thinking...
It goes against everything that I was taught in grade school science, but it's being touted as some of the finest work that these religious minds have come up with. I just want to find someone rational who can defend it with the backup materials because I want to know what makes a person think this way with no proof.
It's not a book per see. It's a collection of religious articles and op/ed papers that outline why global warming and evolution is just a myth. It also outlines how we (not the sun) are the center of the universe. Amazing stuff. Almost Jonestown type thinking...
It goes against everything that I was taught in grade school science, but it's being touted as some of the finest work that these religious minds have come up with. I just want to find someone rational who can defend it with the backup materials because I want to know what makes a person think this way with no proof.
needtogetaas
New member
science forum please.
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heatherrae
Guest
no, no creationist here.
sardonicone
New member
JavaGuru said:My ex-GF also thinks homosexuality is 100% choice, no using that genetic argument on her pick3.
I would have dumped someone that ignorant, then made sure to have a bunch of lesbos call her house at all hours.
redsamurai
Banned
creatonists.....trying to set back human intellectualism 2000 years. Their time is just about up....and they know it, so they're trying some 11th hour shenanigans to keep people in line.
mountain muscle
New member
sardonicone said:
It is a choice, genius.
javaguru
Banned
She's a no sex before marriage girl but she did sleep with me on two seperate occasions and went through a major guilt trip over it. She almost stopped seeing me when we first started dating becasue, "I was too attractive" and she was afraid she wouldn't be able to control herself around me, she was right.Nathan said:
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UA_Iron
Guest
I'm a creationist.
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Gambino
Guest
healother
Nathan
New member
JavaGuru said:She's a no sex before marriage girl but she did sleep with me on two seperate occasions and went through a major guilt trip over it. She almost stopped seeing me when we first started dating becasue, "I was too attractive" and she was afraid she wouldn't be able to control herself around me, she was right.
So if she were to take the Bible literally, doesn't that LITERALLY seal her a place in Hell when she dies? I love how rules change post-error for many people - unless of course I'm wrong and the Bible doesn't actually say that. But then what is the point of having the commandments if you are allowed to break them?
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heatherrae
Guest
Even my diehard Catholic stepmother who wanted to take us all to Yugoslavia during a war because some little girl claimed to have visions of the Virgin Mary has come around to saying that the bible can't be literally interpreted. I nearly fainted. I think literal creationism is on the outs even in the most religious circles.redsamurai said:
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heatherrae
Guest
Nah, according to the bible we are all sinners and Christ died for our sins so that if we repent with sincerity and believe in JC, we will have a spot in heaven. Grace is the word for it.Nathan said:
I'm not arguing if that is true or not, just saying what the bible says about sin.
Extra_Strong
Well-known member
polytheistic yes the human race is "God" We fucking rock!!
javaguru
Banned
How about Dionysis?samoth said:Personally, if I had to pick a religion, I'd go with something polytheistic.
Hail Odin!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysis
Christianity is the Microsoft of religions...
"It is possible that Dionysian mythology would later find its way into Christianity. There are many parallels between Dionysus and Jesus; both were said to have been born from a virgin mother, a mortal woman, but fathered by the king of heaven, to have returned from the dead, to have transformed water into wine, and to have been liberator of mankind. The modern scholar Barry Powell also argues that Christian notions of eating and drinking "the flesh" and "blood" of Jesus were influenced by the cult of Dionysus. Certainly the Dionysus myth contains a great deal of cannibalism, in its links to Ino (however, one must note that Dionysian cannibalism has no correlation with self-sacrifice as a means of propitiation). Dionysus was also distinct among Greek gods, as a deity commonly felt within individual followers. In a less benign example of influence on Christianity, Dionysus' followers, as well as another god, Pan, are said to have had the most influence on the modern view of Satan as animal-like and horned.[11] It is also possible these similarities between Christianity and Dionysiac religion are all only representations of the same common religious archetypes. Furthermore, it is worth noting that the story of Jesus turning water into wine is only found in the Gospel of John, which differs on many points from the other Synoptic Gospels. That very passage, it has been suggested, was incorporated into the Gospel from an earlier source focusing on Jesus' miracles.[12]"
myway
Banned
My father was kicked out of the synagogue when he was 12 years old. He was from a strict, jewish family. He made the Rabbi so angry, my father was never allowed to come back to synagogue. He was in a lot of trouble for it for a long time. His parents were very upset. Plus, the whole neighborhood was very strict about the religion. He even lost some friends because of parents not wanting him around them. He's no longer bitter about it. Actually, it's a funny story when he tells it. He was debating with the Rabbi about the burning bush. I guess he had caused several problems with such debates. The rabbi finally gave him the boot. Now, he's a lawyer. Has been for a gazillion years. I guess he started practicing early, lol. He never forced any religion down my throat. He thinks it's all a crock of shit.... but he let me chose for myself.
myway
Banned
Hi! Wow. Thanx for stopping by. Wow. You adopted your daughter. My father, jewish, from New York adopted me, too. Wow. Great minds think alike. Plus, my dad taught at a university. Isn't that nutz?!??!?!?! O-wait.... maybe I'm nutz. I'm responding to ur post and u died almost 20 years ago.Feynman said:
myway
Banned
Whoa! If anyone could pull it off, it would be him. If he is alive, he would be in his 70's. Wow. Wouldn't it be cool to hear what he's been able to come up with while in complete solitude from the world? Do you think he would go crazy after all this time? Well, more crazy? Even better.samoth said:Rumor has it that Dick faked his death with the help of Cal-Tech students, and now studies in secrecy attempting to unify quantum mechanics and the theory of gravitation.
needtogetaas
New member
super dick any one.myway said:Whoa! If anyone could pull it off, it would be him. If he is alive, he would be in his 70's. Wow. Wouldn't it be cool to hear what he's been able to come up with while in complete solitude from the world? Do you think he would go crazy after all this time? Well, more crazy? Even better.
needtogetaas
New member
lol good one.samoth said:
Shortly after Feynman "died", a couple of students climbed over the face of Millikan Library on ropes, and hung this sign. This of course happened at the California Institute of Technology. Photo taken by Patricia Schwarz.
mountain muscle
New member
samoth said:
Shortly after Feynman "died", a couple of students climbed over the face of Millikan Library on ropes, and hung this sign. This of course happened at the California Institute of Technology. Photo taken by Patricia Schwarz.
I really need to find a pic, if one exists, of the sign hung in a giant tree off the river into Aspen that said "Inhale the Cheif" when Clinton came to look for interns. God bless his heart.
I don't proscribe to any single organized religion, but I believe in God.
Not Christian God or Muslim God or Jewish God or whatever religion God .. just 'the' God. I believe in 'the Creator'.
I also believe in evolution. I have very strong back ground in Science.
I don't know about 'creationism'.
Why is it not possible that God the Creator caused the big bang?
It was His or Her great design. He/She designed it the way it happened.
To me it is more logical than something coming from nowhere just 'banged'.
Not Christian God or Muslim God or Jewish God or whatever religion God .. just 'the' God. I believe in 'the Creator'.
I also believe in evolution. I have very strong back ground in Science.
I don't know about 'creationism'.
Why is it not possible that God the Creator caused the big bang?
It was His or Her great design. He/She designed it the way it happened.
To me it is more logical than something coming from nowhere just 'banged'.
needtogetaas
New member
yes it is.good point.LoneTree said:
needtogetaas
New member
see people dont understand I know a lot of things and could get involved in just about any convo but I chose to just fuck around and see who can catch my clues.not many.most people just say dame he is dumb.lol jokes not on me.samoth said:
Shortly after Feynman "died", a couple of students climbed over the face of Millikan Library on ropes, and hung this sign. This of course happened at the California Institute of Technology. Photo taken by Patricia Schwarz.
myway
Banned
Spooky. I wonder where those students are, now? They just might hold a secret or two.samoth said:
Shortly after Feynman "died", a couple of students climbed over the face of Millikan Library on ropes, and hung this sign. This of course happened at the California Institute of Technology. Photo taken by Patricia Schwarz.
In school, I hated people telling me what to read, and who to study. I especially hated learning about presidents, ect. I wanted to read what I wanted to read. I was very stuborn, I guess. College was not the same. I got to pick my classes. My classes were about what I wanted to study. One of my professors really liked to quote Feynman. He thought quoting people would make us think about people in life and not just the classroom. He quoted people constantly. At times, it was almost annoying.... but I think he was right.
javaguru
Banned
I think my ex actually hated the fact I would bring up things that she actually struggled with trying to maintain a belief in the literal interpretation. She tried to use the rationalization that six of God's days may not match six human days but that very rationalization breaks down the literal belief in the Bible, you can apply the same, "God didn't mean this" to any passage once you accept that premise. Also, you have issues where the original text differs with the Bible accepted by her religion. For example, the original has written, "Thou shalt not commit murder." The text of her Bible states, "Thou shalt not kill." Those are two different meanings. The list goes on...
foreigngirl
New member
lolheatherrae said:
at Bosnia, right? I believe it was muslim kids that saw that vision. I just find it...well......weird
I cant remember where it says I'll have to look it up but to summarize it says this:
to God 1,000 years = a day and a day = 1,000 years.
I think that means that God is somehow outside of time and time is something that you can step into and out.
I know I'm not the person to explain this though.
I believe that there are things that our little minds will never be able to grasp.
to God 1,000 years = a day and a day = 1,000 years.
I think that means that God is somehow outside of time and time is something that you can step into and out.
I know I'm not the person to explain this though.
I believe that there are things that our little minds will never be able to grasp.
mountain muscle
New member
cindylou said:
I am amazed at what explainations people can come up with and believe to escape actually having to think for themselves.
look I'm just saying what it says to explain the whole creation issue.
The bible says this about creation:
1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
on and on it never says a day was 24 hours.
Then in Genesis 2:
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
He said replenish in 28. So the word replenish means there was something there before.
Maybe dinosaurs???
What I'm saying is that religion and science can go hand in hand.
That was a quick post I just got back from the gym
And this is me taking the bible literally. It literally never says anything about the earth being created in a week.
The bible says this about creation:
1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
on and on it never says a day was 24 hours.
Then in Genesis 2:
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
He said replenish in 28. So the word replenish means there was something there before.
Maybe dinosaurs???
What I'm saying is that religion and science can go hand in hand.
That was a quick post I just got back from the gym
And this is me taking the bible literally. It literally never says anything about the earth being created in a week.
mountain muscle
New member
cindylou said:
I have read it. I am curious about 6,7,8 though.
6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Is the bible saying heaven is on earth? Read closely.
A day being 24 hours is a creation of man. Just like the bible.
javaguru
Banned
Genesis 2:31 "And God saw every thing that he had made,and,behold it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."
There are many mistranslations in my ex's "literal" word of God Bible. For example, Exodus 20:13 "Thou shalt not kill." The generally accepted translation is thou shalt not murder, two totally different concepts.
In Deuteronomy it says to "safeguard the Sabbath day" while in Exodus it says to "remember the Sabbath day."
Taking the Bible literally as the word of God and accepting science are hard to reconcile. Not to mention reconciling modern morality Vs. Biblical morality.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvGDAedDqS4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESfJh3h-sgA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnaO0ccDXu0
There are many mistranslations in my ex's "literal" word of God Bible. For example, Exodus 20:13 "Thou shalt not kill." The generally accepted translation is thou shalt not murder, two totally different concepts.
In Deuteronomy it says to "safeguard the Sabbath day" while in Exodus it says to "remember the Sabbath day."
Taking the Bible literally as the word of God and accepting science are hard to reconcile. Not to mention reconciling modern morality Vs. Biblical morality.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvGDAedDqS4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESfJh3h-sgA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnaO0ccDXu0
Its not hard for me to understand how science and religion go hand in hand ; but I only use one version which I believe to be infallible
The KJV 1611
Any other translation to me is useless.
On come the flames! lol!
read the prophetic books of the bible you will be amazed.
The KJV 1611
Any other translation to me is useless.
On come the flames! lol!
read the prophetic books of the bible you will be amazed.
mountain muscle
New member
cindylou said:
I see. So now we have water between heaven and earth?
Also please explain the "firmament" of the heavens.
About chapter 5 of Genesis it starts talking about time in years relating to lifespans. They seemed to live much longer back then. If the world in the bible wasn't created in 7 days, on our 24 hour day, how do we interpret the lifespans? And why is it important to mention them?
Apparently Adam lived 930 years. Is that our years or open to interpretation years?
mountain muscle
New member
cindylou said:
huh? answer the questions.
mountain muscle
New member
cindylou said:oh and:
I'll have a friendly debate today but I'm not going to argue with anyone.
if you want an argument I'm the wrong lady.
I see.
Argument/debate is open to interpretation.
I asked for answers. You bowed out because you have none. No worries.
U
UA_Iron
Guest
Here's a debate on teaching/not teaching evolution in school that was my school newspaper today:
http://media.wildcat.arizona.edu/me...rizona.edu&MIIHost=media.collegepublisher.com
http://media.wildcat.arizona.edu/me...rizona.edu&MIIHost=media.collegepublisher.com
I'm not saying the world was not created in 6 days but I'm not saying that it was. all I'm saying is that however the world was created God created it. It can be explained and even though I dont have all the answers they are still there. Science is not going to disprove God because God exists ; he created the earth ; there is an explanation even if I dont know it.
You can go through and pick apart the Bible all you want ; Christians do it all the time and get things screwed up all the time like baptism and the Commandments.
Trust me you are not the first person to have these questions. there are answers even If I dont have them. Especially now I'm still shaky from my leg workout.
If you just read the bible in the context it was meant to be written things are very clear.
Its not meant to be confusing.
You can go through and pick apart the Bible all you want ; Christians do it all the time and get things screwed up all the time like baptism and the Commandments.
Trust me you are not the first person to have these questions. there are answers even If I dont have them. Especially now I'm still shaky from my leg workout.
If you just read the bible in the context it was meant to be written things are very clear.
Its not meant to be confusing.
I guess I dont understand what question I did not answer.
I answered both questions about Adam's age and heaven from what I got out of reading the bible.
If you think you have a better answer I'm open to hear what you think besides the general "the bible is man made".
what do you think that verse is saying about heaven?
I answered both questions about Adam's age and heaven from what I got out of reading the bible.
If you think you have a better answer I'm open to hear what you think besides the general "the bible is man made".
what do you think that verse is saying about heaven?
mountain muscle
New member
cindylou said:I'm not saying the world was not created in 6 days but I'm not saying that it was. all I'm saying is that however the world was created God created it. It can be explained and even though I dont have all the answers they are still there. Science is not going to disprove God because God exists ; he created the earth ; there is an explanation even if I dont know it.
You can go through and pick apart the Bible all you want ; Christians do it all the time and get things screwed up all the time like baptism and the Commandments.
Trust me you are not the first person to have these questions. there are answers even If I dont have them. Especially now I'm still shaky from my leg workout.
If you just read the bible in the context it was meant to be written things are very clear.
Its not meant to be confusing.
Which edition should I start with then?
mountain muscle
New member
cindylou said:
Wasn't King James responsible for editing the original, or one of them to suit his own needs? Why should I trust him? Why is there a bible version named after him?
If it is indeed the word of god, one is there more than one version? If god created everything, couldn't he have kept his original word intact?
mountain muscle
New member
cindylou said:
You really want me to have to ask every qestion twice?
Why the KJV 1611 is the Word of God:
God Promised to Preserve His Words
Psalm 12:6-7 says, "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." Then we read in Psalm 100:5 that ". . . . his truth endureth to all generations," and Jesus said in John 17:17 that God's WORD is truth.
So God's word is promised to be available to us and God has promised to preserve it for us: There MUST be an infallible Book somewhere.
Not all of the variations are the Word of God because the various translations contain different readings, and God is not the author of confusion (I Cor. 14:33).
In Revelation it warns about adding and subtracting from the word of god.
here is some stuff link below:
So how are we to trust an English Bible?
The Authorized Version Was Translated Under A God-Ordained English King
Ecclesiastes 8:4 says, "Where the word of a king is, there is power: and who may say unto him, What doest thou?" Unlike the modern versions, the KJV was translated under a king. In fact, the king's name was "James," which is the English word for "Jacob," whom God renamed "Israel," because he had power with God and with men (Gen. 32:28).
Because It Has No Copyright
The original crown copyright of 1611 does not forbid anyone today from reprinting the Authorized Version. It was only copyrighted then for the purpose of allowing the printer to finance the publication. For nearly four hundred years now we have been printing millions of copies of KJV's without requesting permission from anyone. Over eight-hundred million copies of the Authorized Version have been printed without anyone paying royalties. This cannot be said of any of the new translations.
The new "bibles" are the work of MEN, but the KJV is a divine work of the Holy Spirit. The term "Authorized" has traditionally been applied to the King James Version alone, for this is the one Book which the Holy Spirit has blessed and used for so long. The fact that it bears no copyright allows printing ministries throughout the world to print millions of copies each year for the mission field. I know the King James Bible is the word of God because it has no copyright.
Some copy /paste stuff in there from this site. If you really wanna read it here:
http://www.av1611.org/kjv/knowkjv.html
Because i could go to the work to explain it or copy and paste all of that and you not even read it! lol.
Again, this is my belief.
God Promised to Preserve His Words
Psalm 12:6-7 says, "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." Then we read in Psalm 100:5 that ". . . . his truth endureth to all generations," and Jesus said in John 17:17 that God's WORD is truth.
So God's word is promised to be available to us and God has promised to preserve it for us: There MUST be an infallible Book somewhere.
Not all of the variations are the Word of God because the various translations contain different readings, and God is not the author of confusion (I Cor. 14:33).
In Revelation it warns about adding and subtracting from the word of god.
here is some stuff link below:
So how are we to trust an English Bible?
The Authorized Version Was Translated Under A God-Ordained English King
Ecclesiastes 8:4 says, "Where the word of a king is, there is power: and who may say unto him, What doest thou?" Unlike the modern versions, the KJV was translated under a king. In fact, the king's name was "James," which is the English word for "Jacob," whom God renamed "Israel," because he had power with God and with men (Gen. 32:28).
Because It Has No Copyright
The original crown copyright of 1611 does not forbid anyone today from reprinting the Authorized Version. It was only copyrighted then for the purpose of allowing the printer to finance the publication. For nearly four hundred years now we have been printing millions of copies of KJV's without requesting permission from anyone. Over eight-hundred million copies of the Authorized Version have been printed without anyone paying royalties. This cannot be said of any of the new translations.
The new "bibles" are the work of MEN, but the KJV is a divine work of the Holy Spirit. The term "Authorized" has traditionally been applied to the King James Version alone, for this is the one Book which the Holy Spirit has blessed and used for so long. The fact that it bears no copyright allows printing ministries throughout the world to print millions of copies each year for the mission field. I know the King James Bible is the word of God because it has no copyright.
Some copy /paste stuff in there from this site. If you really wanna read it here:
http://www.av1611.org/kjv/knowkjv.html
Because i could go to the work to explain it or copy and paste all of that and you not even read it! lol.
Again, this is my belief.
redsamurai
Banned
"Under a god ordained british king" eh??? OMG, that's the funniest thing I've ever read!! YOu must read up on your english histroy cindy babe.......never was there a "god ordained" english king. Sure they claimed to be, of course.......but the British kings were typically some of the most vile people on the planet........save Henry the 2nd of course..... 
So you really beleive that a British king edited the bible through divine inspiration? Why...because he said he did? I don't get it........
So you really beleive that a British king edited the bible through divine inspiration? Why...because he said he did? I don't get it........
cindylou said:
mountain muscle
New member
cindylou said:
WOW. No need to ask anything more of you, except...
Does the holy spirit have a stamp of approval? How exactly do you know this?
What do you think about previous versions? Your reasoning is, so far, so completely unreasonable and indoctrinated that I really don't want to hear anymore of your justifications.
I'll end with this. The bible is absolute fiction, used to control people. It was effective in doing so for an unimaginable amount of time, for certain people. Belief in the fiction, in this day and age, should be unimaginable were it not for the multitudes that still do, without reason.
mountain muscle said:
yes his stamp of approval is the works from the bible called the fruit ; and also if I'm unreasonable and indoctrinated why do you keep asking me questions if you dont want to hear my justifications?
I know my belief on this is unpopular. I'm used to this.
I am not trying to get you angry or riled or try and get you to believe what I believe. You have rejected what I belive and that is fine.
Thanks for the discussion ; I have to go now its Friday and I'm looking forward to going out. Have a good weekend.
redsamurai
Banned
Ok, the "buggery act of 1533"??? I've read enough........no divine inspiration here, sorry. It was worth a good laugh though.....for sure!
cindylou said:
mountain muscle
New member
cindylou said:
Comprehension hun. I said I don't want to hear anymore of your justifications in my last post. I don't get angry nor riled over this topic. Usually amused and sometimes shocked.
Your belief is not all that unpopular. Nearly half the nation feels as you do.
You have a good weekend as well.
javaguru
Banned
http://atheism.about.com/b/a/258326.htmJavaGuru said:
