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ANXIETY!! can anyone whose had it help me out here

decem

New member
thanks for coming into my thread guys..

hello.. my name is decem.. i'm about 15 days into my deca/dbol/test cycle and i have anxiety..

ok, i'm about 90% sure it's anxiety and not a heart or lung problem.

my symptoms = dull ache in chest and shortness of breath for up to an hour at a time... it doesn't seem to be provoked by anything in particular.. it's cool when i work out.. but i do feel it before i work out (so much so that i think about how i'm going to get help if i pass out on the treadmill walking).. i get it sitting at the computer.. driving.. laying in bed.. walking through the store.. but not really when i work out or have sex or walk down the street.

if you have had anxiety, can you guys please share your symptoms with me.. as well as what seems to provoke it (any certain activity or use of any certain aas) and also what you do or take to get rid of it..

i haven't taken anything for it yet.. i've dropped the dbol (my third day off today).. i have drank a few beers and that didn't really help.

any advice or input is appreciated.. thanks gents.
 
for some reason i wanna say mustang got anxiety from eq, or maybe it was something else...might want to ask him.
 
Bro I got the same thing...The main thing I can tell you to do is RELAX. You are perfectly fine. I had all the symptoms you had and I always thought I was gonna have a heart attack. I got checked out and found out I was in good health. Go get checked and it will put your mind at eas. I still had the anxiety after the cycle ended and I started a vitamin stack I got from a book and it has helped a grat deal. I agree about the E/C/A though as thermo's have been known to increase anxiety. E-mail or PM me anytime if you have any questions. I know anxiety is a hard thing to deal with and sometimes it helped to talk with someone

M18
 
I understand...

Like the above guys said.........lay off the Thermogenics or at least find one that has the least (anxiety) reaction to your body. Remember, everyones body chemistry is different. For me, if I take one Xenedrene - I am ready to cry or freak out (emotional roller coaster). The only thermogenic I can take is Hydroxycut follwed by Met-Rx's Thermocore (time released). E/C/A was totally out of the question for me after one try.

I have an anxiety/depression problem that is being treated with Paxil. I just recently began this treatment an am adjusting my Thermo dosage until I find the right one.
 
decem! I've have had/have the same thing my symptoms was/are (they change all the time) shortness of breath, chest pain, sweating, dizziness, fear of death, etc. etc. and sex makes it all go away :confused: I've been check out in every way by count less doctors and they could not find anything wrong with me so now ive been diagnosed with panic attack/anxiety so the doc put me on seroxat but i stopped taking it because I have learnt to deal with it in my own way after going to group consultation but first you must rule out all possibilities of any psychical course of this (which I don't think there is) and after that go talk to a psychiatrist its really hard to do this on your own if not impossible!

get well soon Bro

reconnect
 
thanks guys..

first off, i haven't used any ephedrine or caffeine (besides coffee) or any type of energy booster at all for over 5 months now.. so that's not it.

i had my health checked by a physician but he was a quack and only really found that my bp was 160/100 and my heart rate was high... i had chest x-rays and an ekg and everything panned out.

tr... you might want to talk to MOD before continuing you paxil treatment.. he does not recommend it at all.. (i think it's paxil)

reconnect... man, i don't know if i'm ready for group consultation yet... and then i can't get a damn psych because my insurance fucking sucks and doesn't cover enough of it for me to afford it right now.. so that's out for at least another 2-4 weeks while i search for a better hmo/ppo that i can get affordable treatment with.. anywho.. i'm hoping to be able to control this without true true meds.. thanks again reconnect..
 
bumping for a little while cause it's back...


tj24 had recommended kava kava before bed.. does anyone else successfully use kava kava for anxiety?

i'm hoping to get MOD and garywary (i think he's had anxiety as well) and some others on here... so i'm probably be bumping for awhile.
 
bumping for chest pain...


and i just remembered that MOD is helping the effort in new york.. so i won't expect his reply.. but others would be appreciated.
 
I used to have anxiety in the form of insomnia, loss of appetite, occasional irritable bowel, occasional nausea, occasional racing heart and heart palpitations. I was not using gear, but I have a stressful job.

St. John's Wort has really taken care of all this. I take 3 caps before bed and it works like a charm. It doesn't work for some people and is considered mild in effect, but it has essentially no side effects so I would recommend trying it.
 
thanks trevdog.. how long did that take to kick in.. i thought you had to build your blood levels up first?
 
Kava Kava

When ever I get strong anxiety from a cycle I hit the Kava Kava herb. Works like a charm for me...mellows you out completely. Might be worth looking into.

T
 
yeah me too it can be related to a particular drug you are taking d bol etc get some valium from a doc it will help. sometimes when you raise your hormone levels this can happen to people it mght be somethin you have to put up with when your on if that the case youll have to find some drugs to counter these sides. testosterone has been known to produce anxiety in some individuals. i know how it feels bro its horrible.
 
St. John's Wort and Kava kava pretty ineffective. Actually, liquid Kava Kava is goood in conjunction with Melatonin for sleeping, but if you want to get rid of anxiety try two teaspoons of Insositol three times a day. I just finished reading an Israeli study, and another from Harvard Med. Join the cult of Gary Wary my son and all your problems will be solved. Also, adding 400mg of SAME three times a day is great, but expensive.
 
Hey, decem...it was eq for me.Made me feel absolutly horrible at first...I dropped it back to 400 a week, and I feel a lot better now.You just have to really try to put it all in perspective,because everybody is chemically different.
Good luck,
C.P.
 
Phil King said:
St. John's Wort and Kava kava pretty ineffective. Actually, liquid Kava Kava is goood in conjunction with Melatonin for sleeping, but if you want to get rid of anxiety try two teaspoons of Insositol three times a day. I just finished reading an Israeli study, and another from Harvard Med. Join the cult of Gary Wary my son and all your problems will be solved. Also, adding 400mg of SAME three times a day is great, but expensive.
listen to this guy this shit works. I went through the same shit and i still am going through it. I have put up with anxiety for 8 weeks now and i said fuck it and now im seeing a phys tues. Good luck, by the way I have the chest pains also. Mine scare the shit out of me. pm me I have the same shit you do and i will help you out
 
I have had anxiety for over 5 years, and been on Paxil ever since. I notice that caffine affects mine the most. Well that and weed. I cut out the caffine. Hangovers are when its the worst. Once in a while I forget to refill my script, and get all loopey. Light headed, numb lips, feel like shit. I think its from the withdrawl from the chemical balance it creates, but not sure? Anyone else have problems coming off this stuff. I don't wanna take this shit forever.
 
hardrock said:
I have had anxiety for over 5 years, and been on Paxil ever since. I notice that caffine affects mine the most. Well that and weed. I cut out the caffine. Hangovers are when its the worst. Once in a while I forget to refill my script, and get all loopey. Light headed, numb lips, feel like shit. I think its from the withdrawl from the chemical balance it creates, but not sure? Anyone else have problems coming off this stuff. I don't wanna take this shit forever.
yes do a research about inositol
 
I like that everyone is telling you exactly what I told you long ago...mwahahahaha. Sorry, I'm not a gloater just couldn't resist. Dude, there are so many things you can try. The first and most important is that you're giong to have to give up being you for a while if that makes sense. You're the kind of guy who likes to analyze shit to death until you can change that 90% certainty to 99.999999999% and beyond, right? That's just going to make it worse. Forget it. You know what it is. I say, I saaaayyy, you know what it is. What can you do about it? Maybe inositol, maybe some other med, but try starting with some form of meditation. I don't do that whole sitting with you feet wrapped all up and humming like a fucking bumble bee jazz. But if you can get some shag carpeting, a big disco ball for your ceiling, lots of lotions, some Birkenstock sandals, and grow a nice long pony tail that would help. Just lie down in front of the tv and relax. If the tightness starts up try telling it to kindly fuck off and start trying think of what eating a pair of horse testicles would taste like. Stuff like that - that wasn't entirely a joke either. This is totally a case of mind over matter and you above most should be able to achieve that. So do it.
 
vegeta#1 said:
get some valium from a doc it will help.

thanks vegeta.. i actually have some vicodin around and i'm gonna start popping those.

Phil King said:

liquid Kava Kava is goood in conjunction with Melatonin for sleeping

no way.. every damn time i take melatonin for sleep i get the craziest, scariest nightmares and after them i can't fall asleep the rest of the night.. and i'm going to take the vicodin before i go spending more money i don't have on inositol.. though i have heard how garywary raves about it.. thanks for the input phil


bignuts and pitbull.. thanks guys..


hardrock.. as soon as mod gets back.. i highly recommend talking to him about getting off that shit.. it seems awfully scary to me.. good luck man..

Nathan said:
1. I like that everyone is telling you exactly what I told you long ago...mwahahahaha. Sorry, I'm not a gloater just couldn't resist.

2. The first and most important is that you're giong to have to give up being you for a while if that makes sense. You're the kind of guy who likes to analyze shit to death until you can change that 90% certainty to 99.999999999% and beyond, right? I say, I saaaayyy, you know what it is.

3. What can you do about it?

4. eating a pair of horse testicles would taste like. - that wasn't entirely a joke either.

1. dear gloater.. yah yeahhhh yeah.. i know i know you told me so.. i am sorry.. but you know.. it's better to hear it from a shit ton of people

2. dude.. i don't think i should have told you so much.. i'm serious.. you know me better than 90% of the people i hang out with.. in person.. that's scary.. are you sure you're not the guy next door with the binocs..?? just playing.. good looking out though and thanks for making me face the music..

3. i've decided.. vicodin.. fuck it.. i've got it.. i ain't gotta spend more money.. i'm taking it and it'll help

4. funny story.. well not really funny.. anyway.. raw horse is actually a delicacy in the kyushu prefecture of mainland japan.. i ate a handful of it. tasted like meat but just really really stringy meat.. now my horses look at me differently ever since then.



alright guys.. thanks for all the help and support.. i may be calling on some of you if this whole bullshit doesn't stop with the vics.. thanks again..
 
Kava Kava

Kava saved my ass-- I had anxiety so bad I was breaking out in hives!! The liquid stuff with high concentrations of kavalactones-- Buy this stuff!!:) Works
 
decem, i did get the same symtoms while doing E/C/A but you say you aren't doing that. anyway, here is what i would do to stop it. maybe this technique will help you even though you are not doing E/C/A because it still seems like anxiety.
close your eyes and breathe long deep breaths thru your nose. listen to yourself breathe. you have to concentrate on hearing yourself breathe in and breathe out. i hope this helps. it works for me. i relax so much sometimes i fall asleep.
 
can try valerian root, kava kava, and St. John's Wort. SameE also has some seratonin regulation that may help. GHB, or gbl will help, as in most case insomnia is a big part of anxiety.
 
anxiety attacks

A couple of years ago I started having these horrible attacks where I had heart palpatations, chest pain, dizziness, naseua, disorientation, thoughts that I was dying, and sometimes sheer panic where I had no idea what I was worried about. It was horrible. I know exactly how you feel. I couldn't take any kind of medication, even tylenol or advil would bring on an attack. I had no idea what was wrong, thought I was losing it or something. Well, I eventually could not take it anymore, the attacks came on all the time, couldn't sleep or even relax anytime anywhere, so I went to the doctor. She found absolutely nothing wrong except for the heart palpatations. I did as she said, staying away from any stimulants, especially caffeine. It took a while, but without any drugs, was able to learn to control it. To me, ANY kind of stress can bring it on. I now try to not let things bother me, and try not to dwell on everything that needs to be done for work, or school, or whatever. You have to found out for yourself, and KNOW FOR A FACT THAT THERE'S NOTHING PHYSICALLY WRONG WITH YOU. People telling you this is not enough. I'm not saying stay away from drugs, that's just what I did. Maybe there's some drug out there that can help you in the process of overcoming this.
 
Re: Kava Kava

capitalT said:
When ever I get strong anxiety from a cycle I hit the Kava Kava herb. Works like a charm for me...mellows you out completely. Might be worth looking into.

T


Kava and valerian root mix well - just don't try to drive after.

Also - here's agood page to check out just in case you have some serious heart trouble happening:

Heart Info

All the best bro
 
I have the same problem you do... mine turns to anger though. This can be fixed my taking either Xanax or Klonopins. I prefer the Klonopin. I think you will too.:freak:
 
Well I would have to suggest Kava Kava as well. Just started using it before my cycle due to my stomach going crazy over problems with a girl I WAS dating. Try not just before bed but 2 pills 3 times a day. So far think it had brought me back to normal and I plan to continue it into my dbol/deca/prop cycle....
 
damn... it's starting to look like majority uses kava kava... i'll try that after the vics run out if i'm still having trouble..

i'm starting to think the majority of it was the dbol cause i only had two attacks yesterday, my fourth day off dbol. the third day i must have had 5 and then the 1st and 2nd day off.. well those fucking sucked..

anywho.. thanks for everything guys.. thanks for sharing your stories, thanks for the recommendations, and thanks for the best wishes..

i appreciate it.. i really do.
 
what you are suffering is known as HPA axis disregulation, doctors don't diagnose it as it because they weren't taught it at med school, its a relatively newly recognised condition and is in the research stage.

more info : Most of us as im sure you are aware know that using anabolic steroids (alcohol;dugs and high levels of stress also cause disruption of the HPA axis through similar mechanisms, but i will use anabolic steroids in this article for example) worsens your psychology problems by disrupting your HPA axis . Most people believe that the reduction in testosterone is to blame , but this is only a very small part of the problem. Rather the major cause is due to the disregulation of the stress response within the HPA axis. Most of us know that anabolic steroids prevents cortisol from binding to its receptor sites. Although this is great for muscle building it is terrible for our stress respone system as cortisol is an integral part of this system and is ultimately used to de-activate our stress response.

You see it works like this ,once we are placed under stress the hypothalamus in our brain sectretes CRH Corticotropin Releasing Hormone(or Factor) this in turn stimulates the pituitary to release ACTH Adrenocorticotropic Releasing Hormone which in turn stimulates the realease of Cortisol from the adrenal glands. The blood cortisol level then rises , until it reaches a certain level at which point it deactivates the secretion of CRF thus completing the Negative feedback loop . Whilst taking anabolic steroids cortisol is prevented from completing the cycle ,as such the CRH remains activated. This would explain the "on cycle" anxiety as CRH is pro-inflammatory (anxiety can be described as a pro-infammatory reaction), whereas cortisol (which is being prevented from doing its job) is anti-inflammatory .This is the reason why they they give people with asthma a corticosteroid inhaler , (asthma like anxiety is a pro-inflammatory reaction which can actually be brought on by anxiety which would explain the connection) to complete the loop, which to me is like pouring fuel on the fire due to the subsequent immunosuppression but thats another story altogether.

Post cycle the cortisol is allowed to bind to its receptor sites, but the build up of CRH and ACTH results in the dreaded cortisol backlash .It can damage the hypothalamus (ironically the system that controls it) causing atrophy and dampening its response to cortisol ie The disregulation of the HPA axis as the dampend response of the hypothalamus results in constantly activated CRH and subsequent high levels cortisol . The CRH is responsible for the anxiety and the cortisol is responsible for depression (as it interupts the synthesis of serotonin) . This would explain why you are either anxious or depressed ie. either the cortisol is inhibiting the hypothalamus or it is pumping out too much anxiety causing CRH. ie your HPA axis is either over-activated or underactivated, and why everything seems to slow down when you are depressed or speed up when you are anxious.

This is where psychiatrists can't see the forest for the trees :

They know that a lack of serotonin is responsible for depression , which is why they prescribe you a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI's) {prozac,zoloft,paxil etc} to increase the amount of serotonin in your brain. However, this is where they make a crucial mistake as serotonin is a STIMULATORY neurotransmitter which stimulates the release of CRH thus aggravating the disregulation. Ironically SSRI's are the drug of choice amongst psychiatrists (who believe a disrupted HPA axis is the culprit) as clinical trials have shown it can regulate the HPA axis but this is only after four weeks, my conjecture is that it does this by tricking the mind into a false sense of tranquility through elevated serotonin levels . People ive met (and i also know from experience) on SSRI's become completely numbed out , they have no emotions whatsoever whether it be up or down . Pyschiatrists see this a succesful treatment no longer are their patients depressed ,and who really cares if they are not happy either ,right?

Wrong, take the time to educate yourself learn how the brain works and how it might be affecting your health [Long term disregulation of the HPA axis compromises the immune system which could lead to more serious illnesses further down the line ]. For example the neurotransmitter GABA (unfortunately, oral GABA wont help as it does not cross the blood brain barrier) and certain opiods (such as endorphins) play an inhibitory role on CRH , and there are various drugs available that block cortisol . Through such manipulation you may be able to re-regulate your HPA axis , but i wouldn't suggest attempting it without the advice of a "QUALIFIED HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONAL"

From www.headinjurylaw.com :

"SSRIs are only effective in 2/3rds of depressed patients. Researchers are actively seeking alternatives for the 1/3rd who do not respond. The May-June issue of the Journal of Psychiatric Research discussed a new drug now in Phase II FDA trials which offers some hope to these people. The drug works by dampening the stress response. It blocks the action of CRF (corticotropin releasing factor) in the brain. CRF is what tells the pituitary gland to secrete ACTH (adrenocorticotropic hormone) which stimulates the release of sress hormones like cortisol. People who suffer from anxiety, and some depressed patients, become highly stressed in response to small irritations and disappointments of life, because their brains produce an excessive amount of cortisol. Wylie Vale, Phd is the neuroendocrinologist at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies who has done the pioneering work on these compounds during the past 20 years"
 
decem said:
thanks trevdog.. how long did that take to kick in.. i thought you had to build your blood levels up first?

I guess it took about a week, but I can't remember exactly. I take all 3 caps before bed to help me sleep.

BTW I also have tried Kava Kava and it does seem to help, but it was so mild I could barely notice it. For me, the SJW had a dramatic effect. It may not help people with major anxiety, but it can't hurt to try.
 
bigandy.. thanks for that post man.. great info in there.. my anxiety came to me with the dbol. have you seen anything where dbol is even more likely to prevent cortisol from completing the cycle?


thanks trevdog..
 
BIG ANDY - GOOD POST!

Big Andy,

Great info...........make alot of sense as I have severe depression/anxiety and have recently been prescribed Paxil. I will ask my doc about this and about the new meds that they are working on.......thanks!
 
You may want to evaluate your diet as well....Low carbs or skipping meals fucks my world up....I cant sleep at might and anxiety freaks me out.....Seriously are you eating carbs....? Also, D-bol and T-prop give me anxiety so does Clomid.....
 
Re: BigAndy

Bro! Excellent Post!!! I hadn't thought of that being a possibility!

Well, as for the SSRIs the only one to my knowledge that is also an adjunctive treatment for the treatment of anxiety along with depression is Paxil(paroxetine). I've tried this stuff off-n-on for mostly the anxiety component and I can tell you it does work.

Its not a benzodiazipine like Alpralozam (Xanax) but once you get plasma steady-state levels up there it does offer alot of comfort for anxiety. "YES" it dulls your mental acuity, "YES" on dosages of 20 mg or more you may very well lose interest in sex or at least will experience delayed ejaculation and "YES" you will lose the Highs and lows and walk around somewhat unaffected by the events around you but it does what its supposed to.

If you can get a hold of some Xanax for immediate comfort and start the Paxil therapy you will feel better.

BigAndy makes an excellent point but for now, if you go to Joe Blow MD and complain of panic disorder, your likely to get written a script for Paxil and maybe a temp supply of Xanax. Theres a lot of money behind Paxil and the Pharm reps really give the docs alot of perks to prescribe it.
 
I would honestly steer clear of SSRI's especially paxil they almost killed me . I started suffering from depression and anxiety about two years ago , i was also drinking very heavily at the time . I went to see a psychiatrist hoping he could help, first off he starts diagnosing me all these bullshit syndromes and phobias, then he puts me on zoloft . That shit spaced me out so bad i didn't what the fuck was going on . So i went to see another doctor , same thing diagnoses me with different bullshit syndromes and give me paxil. However what she doesn't tell me is that is that it is very dangerous to drink on these drugs . So being none the wiser i go out partying like a rock star, wake up the next morning hungover from hell and decide to punish myself by doing balls to the wall squats. This is when things took a turn for the worse . As i had triggered some sort of stress meltdown , i went into this zone where i couldnt feel or touch anything , i was completely fatigued i basically couldnt move , so i decided to stop taking the paxil (but of course you can' t just stop taking these drugs cold turkey another thing my fucking psychiatrist forgot to mention) i wnet into something i have now heard being referred to as "brain shock" .I couldny sleep , I honestly wanted to kill myself anything was better than this state i was in . Eventually after two weeks it subsided . There was no way i was going to go back to that self-righteous know it all bitch of a doctor .

Now how i got to the whole disregulation of my HPA axis being the problem , was that i continued to suffer anxiety and depression , but i got alot worse when i tried to diet down , by inducing hypoglycemia by drinking pure protein and doing cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach. It proceded to get a ten times worse when i took a thermogenic . I was back in the exact same zone i had been in months earlier, that how i put the two together , as i learned that hypoglycemia triggers the release of CRH and so do thermogenics.

I wouldn't even bother trying to explain the disregulation of The HPA axis to your doctor, they'll just say you're talking bull and prescribe you some prozac or paxil (look at all the free shit pens papers ,book stands they have littered around their offices with the names of these drugs on - a coincidence i think not.

If only my doctor had actually listened to what i said made me feel better , a run (endorphins antagonise CRH release) Xanax (increase GABA which antagonises CRH) drinking (the pleasurable effects of alcohol can be attributed to the GABA system which surprise surprise antagonises CRH- however drinking then subsequently triggers the system which is why you suffer anxiety the morning after) .

By the way GHB surpresses CRH release but you have to either take it irregularly or cycle it and ween off , if you stop cold turkey you''ll suffer the same stress backlash i decribed BEWARE the same goes for Xanax valium or any other tranquilisers . This why people get addicted to these substances , beacuse they try stopp cold turkey and they suffer the reprecussions . I've stated this before but think of CRH as your body stress button if you try hold it down (ie through GHB ,tranquilisers etc)the pressure (stress) builds up .if instead of removing youre finger gently you remove it completely youl will that stress backlash
 
I'm surprised when people have significant symptoms and they cunsult this board instead of a physician. Males in this society, including myself, are irrationally reluctant to seek medical advice from a Doctor. See a doc!
 
athlete03 said:
See a doc!


umm... yeah..

actually.. i did see a doc even before posting this thread.. ekg and chest xray turned out good.. only bp was high.. and the doc didn't know where to go from there.
 
BigAndy,
Dont blame your docs. They do not expect anyone to go out and booze it up, especially on medication. Its just so obvious that it isnt the smart thing to do, but its not your doctors fault for not telling you the obvious.

You can get a rebound effect on caffeine as well as Paxil or Xanax/Valium or any benzo.


T
 
Like everyone else that has posted, I know how it feels. I have been dealing with it for eight months now. Just came out of the blue, like I contracted some strange disease. i don't do drugs and I have not used AS for about 3 years.
Inner chest wall pain is very common, and other symptons can vary from a light head to numb legs and arms like I get. I used anti depressant for about 6 months. Been off them for almost 2. They are great to help you deal with the symtons, however don't relu on them alone. you must take the time to deal with this on a pyschological and spritual level.

Notice how you feel fine when working out or having sex? because you mind is occupied and you are producing hormones that make you feel good. Notice this frame of mind and try to go there when you feel shit.

Good luck
 
DocTodd WTF i must'nt blame my doctor of course i told the stupid bitch i was going to continue drinking while taking paxil she made no objection, she actually started laughing at me when i told her about the zone i had gone into.

We have a serious problem in our society we give too much power to doctors we see them a people who have been blessed with the power to heal. BULLSHIT just because you read a few more books on the human body doesnt mean you've got anymore insight into how the body works.

"Substantial evidence indicates that stimulation of central serotonergic neurotransmission increases the secretion of ACTH/cortisol (5-HT1A, 5-HT2A/2C receptors), oxytocin (5-HT1A, 5-HT2A receptors), prolactin (5-HT2A/2C, 5-HT3 receptors), and renin (5-HT2A receptors). These hormones can be used as peripheral indicators of central serotonergic receptor function, and serve as a "window into the function of the brain".

Paxil increases serotonin good idea there buddy

"Back to biology, there is the HPA axis, which produces CRH which secretes the stress hormone cortisol, which is to mental tranquility what Osama bin Laden is to world peace. Four different companies now have a CRH drug in development. Three or four companies are also working on a substance P agonist (substance P is a neurotransmitter implicated in mood). Work is also being done on the glutamate system (glutamate is an excitatory amino acid that may be responsible for the loss of neurons in the brain), and in looking at how the growth or lack of growth of neurons can affect mood (some antidepressants increase neuron growth)."
 
paxil

I notice that alot fo you mentioned paxil.....I only took it for 3 weeks, because the sexual side effects were unbareable. Just be aware that you may experience sexual sides while on paxil or similar drugs.
 
got to fight it

I'v had all the problens told here. No antidepressant has worked for me, and I've tried everything. I mean all anti-d's, anxiety meds, sleeping pills, pain killers, recreational, etc..... Everything but the antidepressants help, but only temporarily. You wind up depending on the stuff and get a tolerance and before you know it your popping handfulls of pills or other things all day. Then when your out, you're hurting. I still almost allways have some klonopin and valium on hand for when I really need it as I am a terrible insomniac and my anger control isn't the best. Weed helps too but I have to take breaks because I wind up smoking all day. But my girlfriend prefers me smoking because I'm much nicer on it. Really need to toughen up and quit it, but it seems I constantly go back because I need my little sleep I get. But like i was saying I would love to quit it all, cause sometimes nothing helps, so why take it. I took above my recommended dose last night and didn't sleep a minute, and only a couple hours the night before. Good thing I'm laid off this weak, I've almost lost my job and have lost my freedom a couple of times due to these problems, I really need to solve this. Don't know if you have children, but learning to put thier needs first is helping me more than anything. Also, if I remember correctly you may be into Budhism, does meditation help you? May have went off base on you, sorry. But the little guys waking from his nap, gotta go. Wish I slept like him. Feel free to pm me, good luck bro.
 
If you are having problems with anxiety, you should definately check with your physician (like you said you did) to make sure everything is in check. If you really are suffering from anxiety (which can be attributed to many things such as physcial ailments, stress, and even your diet), I would try to get your doctor to give you an rx for some kind of benzo, but in a low potency, limited amount (which they will generally start you with anyways). The reason why I say this is because, benzo's really are addictive, cause they are just so damn good, especially during an attack. Most doctors will probably tell you to give st johns wort or valerian root a shot before they will give you an rx, but in my case, they didn't do a thing. They will probably end up giving you some klonopin or xanax (probably around .25mg or .5mg).

I have had anxiety on and off for the last two years, and I know how bad it sucks. I am currently using 1-1.5 mg's of xanax whenever I feel one coming on. Klonopin and Valium didnt really do much for me, I'm more of a xanax fan myself. Another thing, I highly would reccomend staying the hell away from any sort of SSRI...cause I have seen so many people I am close with come to depnd on those things way too much. Plus doctors prescribe them like they were god damn candy. I have a friend who was on 3 different meds a day for depression, and now that he has been off them for 4 months, he still isn't himself. I would not want to take any med that changes brain chemistry and that you take every day. Thats why I like benzo's ,because you take them when they are needed.
 
It seems like anxiety is the most common side effect of AAS. Definately try something natural like inositol or Kava before you go the Doc. GHB is very helpful if you use it responsibly. Cardio is something else that helped me. Paxil killed my sex drive. When I was on it, two weeks went by before I realized that I hadn't even thought about sex. Only try meds as a last resort. Take a look at your life and stress level and try to deal with the causes of your anxiety, dont just get some meds to cover up the symptoms.
 
thanks again for all your help guys..

the anxiety is no longer there... had some stressors in life that have since dissipated and stopped the dbol which i think was the biggest thing..
 
For over five years now i have suffered from depression and anxiety . Like anyone else who has suffered from these conditions i went to see psychiatrist in attempt to rid myself of this affliction.

They could not say what was causing my condition , but gave me prozac just the same saying it would help me . Needless to say it didn't work , in fact it made me about ten times worse.

I then decided to take matters into my own hands ,and spent a number of months
researching over the internet the causes of depression. Time and time again across the information that the the disregulation of HPA (Hypothalamus Pituitary Axis) and the subsequent hypersecretion of the Stress Hormone Cortisol is responible for causing depression.

From Medscape.com :

Corticotropin-Releasing Factor Triggers Depression
Carl Sherman, Contributing Writer
[Clinical Psychiatry News 28(6):27, 2000. © 2000 International Medical News Group.]



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

KEY WEST, FLA. - Adverse experience in early life appears to have a lasting effect on the stress response and thus may play an important role in the etiology of depression, Dr. Charles Nemeroff said at a meeting on psychiatry sponsored by the University of Miami.

Corticotropin-releasing factor (CRF) is most likely a central element in this process and may provide an effective point of intervention for new antidepressants, said Dr. Nemeroff, chairman of the department of psychiatry at Emory University in Atlanta.

The fact that depressed patients hypersecrete cortisol is "the most common finding in biological psychiatry," and CRF, which is secreted by the hypothalamus, appears to be "the culprit." It stimulates pituitary release of corticotropin, or ACTH, which in turn triggers cortisol.

Every study of depressed patients, except those involving atypical depression, has found increased CRF concentrations, which normalize after successful treatment. Postmortem examination of the brains of depressed patients have found 2.5 times the number of CRF-expressing neurons than in normal brains.

The importance of early trauma as a risk factor for later depression as well as other disorders has been suggested by several studies. One such study, involving 1,931 women in four community-based primary care practices, showed that the 204 women who had been physically and/or sexually abused as children had more physical symptoms, depression, and anxiety than the others. They also were more prone to substance abuse and suicide attempts.

Preclinical studies point to changes in CRF as a result of early stress. Rats subjected to maternal deprivation in the first 2 weeks of life, for example, showed a "supersensitive" stress response as well as increased CRF gene expression. They also show heightened plasma and CSF concentrations of the hormone - both basally and in response to stress. "This matches what is seen in depressed patients," Dr. Nemeroff said at the meeting, also sponsored by the South Florida Psychiatric Society.


He reported a study that brought these strands together. It compared the stress responses of 11 women who had no history of early stress and no psychiatric disorders; 12 women who had a history of childhood abuse, largely sexual, but no major depression; and 10 women who had both the abuse history and depression.

The patients were subjected to a stressful situation: They were told to give a speech on a topic for which they were unprepared and to perform a difficult arithmetic task.

The increase in ACTH was "in the Cushing's range" for the women who had a history of abuse but far less pronounced in the controls.

The increase in cortisol was marked in the previously abused women who were depressed but not in those who were abused but not depressed. The depressed-abused women also showed dramatic tachycardia in response to the stress task, while the others did not.

CRF is a promising area for potential novel antidepressants: Three pharmaceutical companies are in fact developing CRF-receptor antagonists. In addition to treatment applications, they could arguably "prevent the persistent sequelae of trauma if given in early childhood," Dr. Nemeroff said.

Studies have associated increasing doses of these agents with reduction in CRF receptors. "In the next 10 years, we'll see the introduction of such compounds," he predicted.



I have since then taken this information and others like it to numerous doctors ,however they refuse to take it into account as they weren't taught it at med school . Its a real tragedy that myself and others like me will have to wait another ten years , before we hear a doctor say :

" You know what i think your problem is too much cortisol..."
 
Decem my friend.

I have had anxiety for all my life and have been on meds for the last 10 years. It can be genetic and aggravated by situations and substances, many people get relief with counseling.

There is a program at 1-800-anxiety advertised nationally and it may be at no charge.


Personally I see a shrink every 60 days and stay on Xanax 24/7.


Good luck and I hope you feel better.
 
I have anxiety problems also. I am on medication and my doctor said that I am probably depressed and the anxiety hides the typical signs of depression. My blood is normal and I am in above average health. The weirdest thing is that it popped up out of no where and I come across to others as a normal healthy person. I would call the number above or see the doctor. The medicine seems to help. I think your orignal post was a long time ago but good luck.
KONDOR :)
 
oh no....this thread has been resurrected.

The reason your docs say that is because the body releases cortisol in times of stress....depression could be a type of stress. If you actually gave people prednisone or other corticosteroids in your practice of medicine, you would see that it makes them feel great for awhile.

So i think you are seeing the results of the depression, not the cause of it.

Try inositol.....it seems to work for guys here.

T
 
DocTodd you are a ignorant dumbass

Science Fact :" Cortisol inhibts the synthesis of serotonin thus worsening depression"

The only reason taking cortisone might make you feel better is that it would complete the HPA axis negative feedback cycle . Turning off the release of Corticotropin Releasing Hormone (CRH) . However cortisone is a catabolic hormone and an excess can actually damage the hypothalamus resluting in the diregulated release of CRH, further worsening any previous conditions.
 
inositol, 5HTP, and kava kava seems to work for many people. Try one or all three! Personally I think SSRI's are shit.
 
I've had a small amount of anxiety in certain situations all my life, but they have gotten worse since I did a cycle that included EQ. I had all the same symptoms as mentioned above, heart beating out of my chest, high heart rate, ect. It's definatley mind over matter. You have to be mentally aware that you have this condition, so when you get into a situation where you feel an attack coming on you know what to do. I was interviewing while on my EQ cycle, so it was a real pain in the ass. I'd be fine and all the sudden I'd get asked a question I wasn't expecting and my heart would jump out of my chest.
 
BigAndy said:
DocTodd you are a ignorant dumbass

Science Fact :" Cortisol inhibts the synthesis of serotonin thus worsening depression"

The only reason taking cortisone might make you feel better is that it would complete the HPA axis negative feedback cycle . Turning off the release of Corticotropin Releasing Hormone (CRH) . However cortisone is a catabolic hormone and an excess can actually damage the hypothalamus resluting in the diregulated release of CRH, further worsening any previous conditions.



so im a dumbass, huh? Do you feel better about yourself by TRYING to belittle others? Or are you just on a rage right now?

Anyway.......serotonin(or lack of it) is not the only hormone related to depression. And cortisol has many other effects...too much to get into here. Maybe you should do some reading.


T
 
Doc Todd , yes i do feel alot better about myself now that ive knocked you off your high horse, thanks for asking.

In response first off serotonin is not a hormone its a neurotransmitter, ofcourse i know cortisol has other effects - such as immunosuppression and as an anti-inflammatory, which suprise suprise works by turning off the pro-inflammatory CRH.
 
I have one quick question. How bad is it to do a cycle if you have anxiety. I see everyone talking about what they take for anxiety but are all of you currently on cycles or in the process of starting one. I think I to suffer from the same symptoms. I am going to the doctor on Thursday. I have not been on anything for two months but my anxiety started towards the end of my fina/winny cycle. I actually got scared and stopped taking the fina mid way through and tapered the winny. I have only gotten about 3 attacks, but I do get the minor chest pains frequently, short of breath and nervous not really that bad but quite often. Now my question is this, if I go to my docotor he says i have anxiety and gives me a prescription can I still do a cycle or are my days of juicing over? someone please help me out with this I am quite confussed!
 
one word - xannax, and lots of it
just kidding, layoff some of those stimulants, you'll get good enough pumps with your cycle
 
Yellowbottle , i would definitely not go on another cycle if i were you heres my reasoning:Most of us as im sure you are aware know that using anabolic steroids (alcohol;dugs and high levels of stress also cause disruption of the HPA axis through similar mechanisms, but i will use anabolic steroids in this article for example) worsens your psychology problems by disrupting your HPA axis . Most people believe that the reduction in testosterone is to blame , but this is only a very small part of the problem. Rather the major cause is due to the disregulation of the stress response within the HPA axis. Most of us know that anabolic steroids prevents cortisol from binding to its receptor sites. Although this is great for muscle building it is terrible for our stress respone system as cortisol is an integral part of this system and is ultimately used to de-activate our stress response.

You see it works like this ,once we are placed under stress the hypothalamus in our brain sectretes CRH Corticotropin Releasing Hormone(or Factor) this in turn stimulates the pituitary to release ACTH Adrenocorticotropic Releasing Hormone which in turn stimulates the realease of Cortisol from the adrenal glands. The blood cortisol level then rises , until it reaches a certain level at which point it deactivates the secretion of CRF thus completing the Negative feedback loop . Whilst taking anabolic steroids cortisol is prevented from completing the cycle ,as such the CRH remains activated. This would explain the "on cycle" anxiety as CRH is pro-inflammatory (anxiety can be described as a pro-infammatory reaction), whereas cortisol (which is being prevented from doing its job) is anti-inflammatory .This is the reason why they they give people with asthma a corticosteroid inhaler , (asthma like anxiety is a pro-inflammatory reaction which can actually be brought on by anxiety which would explain the connection) to complete the loop, which to me is like pouring fuel on the fire due to the subsequent immunosuppression but thats another story altogether.

Post cycle the cortisol is allowed to bind to its receptor sites, but the build up of CRH and ACTH results in the dreaded cortisol backlash .It can damage the hypothalamus (ironically the system that controls it) causing atrophy and dampening its response to cortisol ie The disregulation of the HPA axis as the dampend response of the hypothalamus results in constantly activated CRH and subsequent high levels cortisol . The CRH is responsible for the anxiety and the cortisol is responsible for depression (as it interupts the synthesis of serotonin) . This would explain why you are either anxious or depressed ie. either the cortisol is inhibiting the hypothalamus or it is pumping out too much anxiety causing CRH. ie your HPA axis is either over-activated or underactivated, and why everything seems to slow down when you are depressed or speed up when you are anxious.
 
BigAndy said:
Doc Todd , yes i do feel alot better about myself now that ive knocked you off your high horse, thanks for asking.

In response first off serotonin is not a hormone its a neurotransmitter, ofcourse i know cortisol has other effects - such as immunosuppression and as an anti-inflammatory, which suprise suprise works by turning off the pro-inflammatory CRH.


Big Andy,

I was just browsing through some of your previous and very eloquent posts and i think i see your side of the story now......you are pissed off im a doctor and you think im on a high horse. I guess im still riding high on my horse by the way. If you arent happy with what i or anyone else does for a living, then you have more problems than this board or any doctor can solve.

I am truly sorry about your depression and anxiety and whatever other psychiatric problems you have. Have some karma....looks like you need it.

Lastly, i will not respond to you on this board anymore if all you want to do is flame. If you want to PM me thats fine.

Good luck.


T
 
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F*ck the PAXIL

:toilet: :toilet: :toilet:


All of the suggestions seem worthwhile. However, PAXIL is not as pretty as those cool commercials they use. It seems that you have some temporary.....I repeat: TEMPORARY conditions. Use a temporary remedy. Things like valium, kavalactones, codeine, maybe even G (if you are aware of the history and effects) are all temporary band-aids that you can use to deal with the demons of a cycle. Alot of medications change your hormones over time (PAXIL) and then you are not dealing with a mind over matter type of addiction like you might experience with the short lived chemicals I listed earlier, but you would be allowing your body to be changed hormonally. In other words: Up the Sylmarin and have a couple of beers. If you can get some percocets thats cool too. Just dont make a long term decision for a temporary problem.
 
I didn't read the thread and I'd say its already been said but, Bro go to the doctor! Tell him everything youre taking. I had panick attacks for about a week and a half (feelings of suffication, feeling that youre going to die, lasting about 5 mins) I went to the doc and got on some anxiety meds and they went away within a few days. I too was begining my cycle (w/dbol) so it could be from that. Good luck bro!
 
oops just read that the anxiety is gone, congrats.

Couldve been the Dbol bro as I too was taking it when I had my panick/anxiety attacks.
 
i don't know how the hell this thread got resurrected.. but i'll fill y'all in on the situation.

i took dbol and winny along with multivitamin and milk thistle...

any time on dbol or winny for more than 3 days and my b.p. shot through the roof.. it wasn't anxiety.. it was high b.p.... 160/110 at its highest..

well.. after trying to take winny again and then taking milk thistle only to have my b.p. spike about 3 hours later.. i linked it to the milk thistle..

so then i tried an experiment..

50mg winny eod.. then 50mg every 36h.. then 50mg ed.. then 75mg ed.. have been at 50-75mg ed for over a week and a half and have had no problems at all.. maybe a slight elevation to 140/90.. but that's about it..

so.. i don't know if it was in my mind or not.. but the milk thistle and multivitamin, which i haven't taken in 3 weeks and haven't had a problem, was causing my high b.p. through some type of synergistic effects with the 17aa's..
 
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