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ANXIETY!! can anyone whose had it help me out here

what you are suffering is known as HPA axis disregulation, doctors don't diagnose it as it because they weren't taught it at med school, its a relatively newly recognised condition and is in the research stage.

more info : Most of us as im sure you are aware know that using anabolic steroids (alcohol;dugs and high levels of stress also cause disruption of the HPA axis through similar mechanisms, but i will use anabolic steroids in this article for example) worsens your psychology problems by disrupting your HPA axis . Most people believe that the reduction in testosterone is to blame , but this is only a very small part of the problem. Rather the major cause is due to the disregulation of the stress response within the HPA axis. Most of us know that anabolic steroids prevents cortisol from binding to its receptor sites. Although this is great for muscle building it is terrible for our stress respone system as cortisol is an integral part of this system and is ultimately used to de-activate our stress response.

You see it works like this ,once we are placed under stress the hypothalamus in our brain sectretes CRH Corticotropin Releasing Hormone(or Factor) this in turn stimulates the pituitary to release ACTH Adrenocorticotropic Releasing Hormone which in turn stimulates the realease of Cortisol from the adrenal glands. The blood cortisol level then rises , until it reaches a certain level at which point it deactivates the secretion of CRF thus completing the Negative feedback loop . Whilst taking anabolic steroids cortisol is prevented from completing the cycle ,as such the CRH remains activated. This would explain the "on cycle" anxiety as CRH is pro-inflammatory (anxiety can be described as a pro-infammatory reaction), whereas cortisol (which is being prevented from doing its job) is anti-inflammatory .This is the reason why they they give people with asthma a corticosteroid inhaler , (asthma like anxiety is a pro-inflammatory reaction which can actually be brought on by anxiety which would explain the connection) to complete the loop, which to me is like pouring fuel on the fire due to the subsequent immunosuppression but thats another story altogether.

Post cycle the cortisol is allowed to bind to its receptor sites, but the build up of CRH and ACTH results in the dreaded cortisol backlash .It can damage the hypothalamus (ironically the system that controls it) causing atrophy and dampening its response to cortisol ie The disregulation of the HPA axis as the dampend response of the hypothalamus results in constantly activated CRH and subsequent high levels cortisol . The CRH is responsible for the anxiety and the cortisol is responsible for depression (as it interupts the synthesis of serotonin) . This would explain why you are either anxious or depressed ie. either the cortisol is inhibiting the hypothalamus or it is pumping out too much anxiety causing CRH. ie your HPA axis is either over-activated or underactivated, and why everything seems to slow down when you are depressed or speed up when you are anxious.

This is where psychiatrists can't see the forest for the trees :

They know that a lack of serotonin is responsible for depression , which is why they prescribe you a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI's) {prozac,zoloft,paxil etc} to increase the amount of serotonin in your brain. However, this is where they make a crucial mistake as serotonin is a STIMULATORY neurotransmitter which stimulates the release of CRH thus aggravating the disregulation. Ironically SSRI's are the drug of choice amongst psychiatrists (who believe a disrupted HPA axis is the culprit) as clinical trials have shown it can regulate the HPA axis but this is only after four weeks, my conjecture is that it does this by tricking the mind into a false sense of tranquility through elevated serotonin levels . People ive met (and i also know from experience) on SSRI's become completely numbed out , they have no emotions whatsoever whether it be up or down . Pyschiatrists see this a succesful treatment no longer are their patients depressed ,and who really cares if they are not happy either ,right?

Wrong, take the time to educate yourself learn how the brain works and how it might be affecting your health [Long term disregulation of the HPA axis compromises the immune system which could lead to more serious illnesses further down the line ]. For example the neurotransmitter GABA (unfortunately, oral GABA wont help as it does not cross the blood brain barrier) and certain opiods (such as endorphins) play an inhibitory role on CRH , and there are various drugs available that block cortisol . Through such manipulation you may be able to re-regulate your HPA axis , but i wouldn't suggest attempting it without the advice of a "QUALIFIED HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONAL"

From www.headinjurylaw.com :

"SSRIs are only effective in 2/3rds of depressed patients. Researchers are actively seeking alternatives for the 1/3rd who do not respond. The May-June issue of the Journal of Psychiatric Research discussed a new drug now in Phase II FDA trials which offers some hope to these people. The drug works by dampening the stress response. It blocks the action of CRF (corticotropin releasing factor) in the brain. CRF is what tells the pituitary gland to secrete ACTH (adrenocorticotropic hormone) which stimulates the release of sress hormones like cortisol. People who suffer from anxiety, and some depressed patients, become highly stressed in response to small irritations and disappointments of life, because their brains produce an excessive amount of cortisol. Wylie Vale, Phd is the neuroendocrinologist at the Salk Institute for Biological Studies who has done the pioneering work on these compounds during the past 20 years"
 
decem said:
thanks trevdog.. how long did that take to kick in.. i thought you had to build your blood levels up first?

I guess it took about a week, but I can't remember exactly. I take all 3 caps before bed to help me sleep.

BTW I also have tried Kava Kava and it does seem to help, but it was so mild I could barely notice it. For me, the SJW had a dramatic effect. It may not help people with major anxiety, but it can't hurt to try.
 
bigandy.. thanks for that post man.. great info in there.. my anxiety came to me with the dbol. have you seen anything where dbol is even more likely to prevent cortisol from completing the cycle?


thanks trevdog..
 
BIG ANDY - GOOD POST!

Big Andy,

Great info...........make alot of sense as I have severe depression/anxiety and have recently been prescribed Paxil. I will ask my doc about this and about the new meds that they are working on.......thanks!
 
You may want to evaluate your diet as well....Low carbs or skipping meals fucks my world up....I cant sleep at might and anxiety freaks me out.....Seriously are you eating carbs....? Also, D-bol and T-prop give me anxiety so does Clomid.....
 
Re: BigAndy

Bro! Excellent Post!!! I hadn't thought of that being a possibility!

Well, as for the SSRIs the only one to my knowledge that is also an adjunctive treatment for the treatment of anxiety along with depression is Paxil(paroxetine). I've tried this stuff off-n-on for mostly the anxiety component and I can tell you it does work.

Its not a benzodiazipine like Alpralozam (Xanax) but once you get plasma steady-state levels up there it does offer alot of comfort for anxiety. "YES" it dulls your mental acuity, "YES" on dosages of 20 mg or more you may very well lose interest in sex or at least will experience delayed ejaculation and "YES" you will lose the Highs and lows and walk around somewhat unaffected by the events around you but it does what its supposed to.

If you can get a hold of some Xanax for immediate comfort and start the Paxil therapy you will feel better.

BigAndy makes an excellent point but for now, if you go to Joe Blow MD and complain of panic disorder, your likely to get written a script for Paxil and maybe a temp supply of Xanax. Theres a lot of money behind Paxil and the Pharm reps really give the docs alot of perks to prescribe it.
 
I would honestly steer clear of SSRI's especially paxil they almost killed me . I started suffering from depression and anxiety about two years ago , i was also drinking very heavily at the time . I went to see a psychiatrist hoping he could help, first off he starts diagnosing me all these bullshit syndromes and phobias, then he puts me on zoloft . That shit spaced me out so bad i didn't what the fuck was going on . So i went to see another doctor , same thing diagnoses me with different bullshit syndromes and give me paxil. However what she doesn't tell me is that is that it is very dangerous to drink on these drugs . So being none the wiser i go out partying like a rock star, wake up the next morning hungover from hell and decide to punish myself by doing balls to the wall squats. This is when things took a turn for the worse . As i had triggered some sort of stress meltdown , i went into this zone where i couldnt feel or touch anything , i was completely fatigued i basically couldnt move , so i decided to stop taking the paxil (but of course you can' t just stop taking these drugs cold turkey another thing my fucking psychiatrist forgot to mention) i wnet into something i have now heard being referred to as "brain shock" .I couldny sleep , I honestly wanted to kill myself anything was better than this state i was in . Eventually after two weeks it subsided . There was no way i was going to go back to that self-righteous know it all bitch of a doctor .

Now how i got to the whole disregulation of my HPA axis being the problem , was that i continued to suffer anxiety and depression , but i got alot worse when i tried to diet down , by inducing hypoglycemia by drinking pure protein and doing cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach. It proceded to get a ten times worse when i took a thermogenic . I was back in the exact same zone i had been in months earlier, that how i put the two together , as i learned that hypoglycemia triggers the release of CRH and so do thermogenics.

I wouldn't even bother trying to explain the disregulation of The HPA axis to your doctor, they'll just say you're talking bull and prescribe you some prozac or paxil (look at all the free shit pens papers ,book stands they have littered around their offices with the names of these drugs on - a coincidence i think not.

If only my doctor had actually listened to what i said made me feel better , a run (endorphins antagonise CRH release) Xanax (increase GABA which antagonises CRH) drinking (the pleasurable effects of alcohol can be attributed to the GABA system which surprise surprise antagonises CRH- however drinking then subsequently triggers the system which is why you suffer anxiety the morning after) .

By the way GHB surpresses CRH release but you have to either take it irregularly or cycle it and ween off , if you stop cold turkey you''ll suffer the same stress backlash i decribed BEWARE the same goes for Xanax valium or any other tranquilisers . This why people get addicted to these substances , beacuse they try stopp cold turkey and they suffer the reprecussions . I've stated this before but think of CRH as your body stress button if you try hold it down (ie through GHB ,tranquilisers etc)the pressure (stress) builds up .if instead of removing youre finger gently you remove it completely youl will that stress backlash
 
I'm surprised when people have significant symptoms and they cunsult this board instead of a physician. Males in this society, including myself, are irrationally reluctant to seek medical advice from a Doctor. See a doc!
 
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