An Interesting Conversation about Faith and God...

[ceo]

holy shit. Was that rally posted somewhere or is that photo shopped?

not sure? Just saw it online and thought it was oft true.

You never did take a look at that website I posted some time ago to you did you? http://www.toolong.com/index.htm

I read the book long before there ever was a website. Written by a christian too. It's about the blending of pagan sun worship and early chrisitanity.

 

[Tatyana]

I have read 'The Selfish Gene' by Richard Dawkins, and recently saw him lecture at the Uni of Arizona.

It was very entertaining, he was gracious, funny, considerate, intelligent and very logical.

At no point in time was he disrespectful of any religion, however, many have interpreted him that way.

You could see it in the questions after, people had thought he had said something or meant something offensive (as they were looking for it), but everyone else in the audience was perplexed as to where they had gotten it from.

I would highly recommend his book the God Delusion. I have it, only into the first chapter though.

 

[Pat_McCrotch]

nah i forgot about it? Ill book mark it.

 

[heatherrae]

Java just feels intellectually superior bashing Christians. Whatever his ego needs...

 

[HunterUk]

I have to admit Java makes sense with what he says on here at times. it rubs me the wrong way but it makes me think.

Think about how christianity sounds. Jesus= Son of God, born of a virgin never sinned. if you think about it it does sound silly. having Faith in this is illogical.

Then you read about how peole made a pact/covenant with God to kill their first born if he would deliver their enemies to their feet. The win the battle and they kill the ones they love. Is this a loving God?

My faith is irrational and illogical because despite all this I still have faith there is a God despite all that is being said. I am however looking at it much differently now.

Religon to control the masses? what better way to control the masses when someone comes in and questions jesus with sound logic and say(I forget what verse it is so this is a parphrase). Man will try to disprove God with science and their intelligence but blessed is he who keeps his faith and is not shaken. Faith is beliving what you can not see or understand. Seriously guys. Does this not sound like "brainashing"?

That is seriously one of the best things I've seen or even heard someone say on the matter. It's very very rare that someone will come away from a discussion on a topic that they have long-held strong opinions on with an altered viewpoint.

To put this in context I myself am what people could call religious, but can't say I belong to an organised religion as they all have too many questions that are left unanswered or answered badly for me to be able to accept with the blind faith that is always asked.

I would never say to someone that their religion is wrong but i find it incredibly closed minded to just accept that what was written down two thousand years ago by people who were not even there at the time of Jesus' life as infallible. Especially when the Bible was put together by a council of religious leaders and many many of the more 'crazy'/unbelievable stories and writings were left out and only the ones that they deemed most appropriate and believable left in.

People are indoctrinated into a religion when they are too young to know any better and told never to question this. I was born and raised in England so therefore I was raised Christian. If I was born in Iran I would be a Muslim, does that mean i would go to hell, just because i was born in the wrong place? What if I was born in the jungle somewhere and lived and died not knowing of organised religion and worshiped the sun, again do I deserve eternity in hell?

I'd say by all means people should follow whatever religion they believe is correct but don't just follow because you were always raised to follow. That's just accepted brain-washing.

I have the utmost respect for someone who joins a religion later in life when they are old enough to understand and gain faith for their own reasons (perhaps religious experiences or callings).

 

[heatherrae]

That is seriously one of the best things I've seen or even heard someone say on the matter. It's very very rare that someone will come away from a discussion on a topic that they have long-held strong opinions on with an altered viewpoint.

To put this in context I myself am what people could call religious, but can't say I belong to an organised religion as they all have too many questions that are left unanswered or answered badly for me to be able to accept with the blind faith that is always asked.

I would never say to someone that their religion is wrong but i find it incredibly closed minded to just accept that what was written down two thousand years ago by people who were not even there at the time of Jesus' life as infallible. Especially when the Bible was put together by a council of religious leaders and many many of the more 'crazy'/unbelievable stories and writings were left out and only the ones that they deemed most appropriate and believable left in.

People are indoctrinated into a religion when they are too young to know any better and told never to question this. I was born and raised in England so therefore I was raised Christian. If I was born in Iran I would be a Muslim, does that mean i would go to hell, just because i was born in the wrong place? What if I was born in the jungle somewhere and lived and died not knowing of organised religion and worshiped the sun, again do I deserve eternity in hell?

I'd say by all means people should follow whatever religion they believe is correct but don't just follow because you were always raised to follow. That's just accepted brain-washing.

I have the utmost respect for someone who joins a religion later in life when they are old enough to understand and gain faith for their own reasons (perhaps religious experiences or callings).

I was raised in a Southern Baptist church, completely lost faith and was agnostic, then had a religious experience a few years ago and returned to faith.

I don't believe everything the bible says for the reasons you have pointed out. I don't think that only christians go to heaven. I'm not even sure what "heaven" is.

That is part of faith to not have to have all the answers laid out in front of you and to still love God. Why love God? Why believe? Because deep down in our hearts all men know that love, faith, kindness, and altruism are right and good and born of the Divine.

This isn't to say that Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, etc instantaneously become perfect God like beings. We are still flawed. Some murder, many lie, many cheat, etc. This isn't the word of God causing us to be this way. It is us exercising our free will in a destructive manner.

 

[chazk]

I was raised in a Southern Baptist church, completely lost faith and was agnostic, then had a religious experience a few years ago and returned to faith.

I don't believe everything the bible says for the reasons you have pointed out. I don't think that only christians go to heaven. I'm not even sure what "heaven" is.

That is part of faith to not have to have all the answers laid out in front of you and to still love God. Why love God? Why believe? Because deep down in our hearts all men know that love, faith, kindness, and altruism are right and good and born of the Divine.

This isn't to say that Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, etc instantaneously become perfect God like beings. We are still flawed. Some murder, many lie, many cheat, etc. This isn't the word of God causing us to be this way. It is us exercising our free will in a destructive manner.

then you are not a baptist . baptist believe that you must fallow son father and the casper. To reach heaven and only those who did get in.
You should find another church to attend if you can't even follow your own churchs belief system

 

[heatherrae]

then you are not a baptist . baptist believe that you must fallow son father and the casper. To reach heaven and only those who did get in.
You should find another church to attend if you can't even follow your own churchs belief system

You are a really bitter person based on your past experiences, which were very negative. I wouldn't have liked the people at that church you attended, either. You need to have some fun. Go to a picnic, a festival, make friends with some new Christians unlike the mean ones you encountered in the past. Release some of those negative emotions and then, and only then, begin again to bridge the gap.

 

[mrplunkey]

That is 100% correct! Faith = No sense realm evidence!

So I guess you are right when you say to live by faith is Non-Sense!!!

John 20:29 Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

I find it hilariously hypocritical that if this had been the post that started the thread, complete with the bible verse from John 20:29 that it would have been buried into the "Mind Body and Spirit" forum before it got viewed even two times.

Don't the Christian-bashers realize anything they do that can be perceived as "persecution" only energizes Christians and re-affirms their faith? Maybe that's Java's goal... he's probably reinforced more positive feeling within Christians than most televangelists.

Wait... maybe he's a double-secret genius and that's what he's trying to do!

 

[cindylou]

actually the clip WAS very civil.

Anyone who says they have all the answers is a fool to me. Neither of these men seem foolish or arrogant