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3 day split, what do you think?

UFC22

New member
Mon. Chest & Triceps
- Incline BB press (3x8) not including warm up sets.
- Flat BB close-grip press (3x8)
- Weighted dips (3x8-12)
- Skull Crushers (3x10)
Weds. Back & Biceps
- Partial Deadlifts
- Wide grip pull ups
- BB Rows (3x8)
- Pulldowns close grip (3x10)
- Hammer preacher curls (3x8)
- DB alternating curls (2x12)
Fri. Shoulders & Legs
- Squats (3x10)
- leg press (3x8)
- Stiff leg DL (3x12)
- Arnold press (3x8)
- DB laterals (3x10)

I implement core work on some of my off days. Morning cardio 5 days a week. My goal is to add size while leaning up simultaneously.
 
In my opinion you doing too much arm movements, drop 'em and refocus that strenght to the big compound exercises. Drop the leg press and squat twice a week, go heavy 5x5
my two cents
 
Need to squat more than 1x per week. Kill leg press, it is useless if you can squat. Put shoulders w/ chest/tri if you have to have 'bodypart' days.
Agree w/ too much fluff, and your rep ranges are not condusive for adding size IMO (at least not strong size...maybe BB style, which for a fighter is a total waste). It might do well for Phil Barroni, but he was an aspiring BB at one time.

Look at say Couture... he trains 5x5 style (at least he sticks to compounds like back squats, etc), and focuses on Oly style lifting and kettlebells
 
Do you have a plan of progression for all that?

Think of it this way... if you put ALL your energy into deadlifting (instead of pull downs, ect), you'd be able to pull more, right?

Pulling more = more load = more strength and muscle over time.

IMO the fluff like "arm day" should be saved for Friday after your core stuff, that way your body has 2 days to recover to get ready for more heavy lifting.

That's a great goal to add size and lean up at the same time. For most people... it's not possible. If you know your body well enough and have diet on point and maybe even drugs to back that up it's very possible.
 
UFC22 said:
Mon. Chest & Triceps
- Incline BB press (3x8) not including warm up sets.
- Flat BB close-grip press (3x8)
- Weighted dips (3x8-12)
- Skull Crushers (3x10)
Weds. Back & Biceps
- Partial Deadlifts
- Wide grip pull ups
- BB Rows (3x8)
- Pulldowns close grip (3x10)
- Hammer preacher curls (3x8)
- DB alternating curls (2x12)
Fri. Shoulders & Legs
- Squats (3x10)
- leg press (3x8)
- Stiff leg DL (3x12)
- Arnold press (3x8)
- DB laterals (3x10)

I implement core work on some of my off days. Morning cardio 5 days a week. My goal is to add size while leaning up simultaneously.

Instead of this program MWF, try a three day on, one day off then repeat. Then you can hit hit each area twice a week. Seems a bit low for a weeks worth of volume if it's just 3 days a week with those exercises.
 
Thanks for the info guys... I always trained 4-5 day splits and had great results. I guess im just looking for a more efficient way to train. The 3 day 1 day off sounds great.
 
thesuaveone said:
Be sure to switch exercises up from time to time. Shock the muscles.

Exactly - you gotta shock them, and make sure you don't progress at any one movememnt, that is bad.

I like to hook my biceps up to a car battery, then just watch them get all swole from the shock. Real hardcore training broseph.
 
Kabeetz said:
Don't forget to hit each muscle from a multitude of angles!

Or just do dips and drink plenty of milk, then throw in a set or two of squats if you really want to get those biceps pumped...la
 
Wait, wait... are you saying that a caloric surplus and compound movements will create a ton of growth that includes arm circumference?

And that for all but the most advanced lifters, body part specialization is probably less efficient and not necessary at the beginner/intermediate and early advanced stage of muscular development to spur on muscle growth?

I refuse to believe such a logical and consistently proven hypothesis.
And I'm not gonna read all these countless logs that back it up over time, they are pure coincidence.
 
No, but I love how so many in this forum dismiss the experience of others who happen to have experience that differs from your own. You want to call bullshit on anyone that tries to claim that any information that comes from the bodybuilding realm is incorrect, or only attainable by the professional level atheletes in the sport. Everyone's genetics are different, and there are many routes to similar results, but the way many in here dismiss others is, imo, a bunch of crap.
 
thesuaveone said:
No, but I love how so many in this forum dismiss the experience of others who happen to have experience that differs from your own. You want to call bullshit on anyone that tries to claim that any information that comes from the bodybuilding realm is incorrect, or only attainable by the professional level atheletes in the sport. Everyone's genetics are different, and there are many routes to similar results, but the way many in here dismiss others is, imo, a bunch of crap.

First of all, dismissing others and being close minded sucks, and that does go on and it is a shame.

However... this is a weight training forum, it doesn't say Bodybuilding in the title, and therefore that's what the make up of it is going to be. Like being a Honda owner on a Nissan forum trying to debate a point, it's not always gonna be easy.

Further, a lot of guys have spent a lot of time following FLEX and M&F routines that got them nowhere, switched to compound lift oriented training, got the best progress of their lives, and now swear by it and defend it.

Beyond that, the gym is full of scrawny kids who curl all day every day and look at THEM like they are crazy for not doing "tricep day" and it can be frustrating. I've had people have conversations right next to me saying you're only supposed to squat once a week I don't understand it you hit the body part and you move on... while I'm in the hole. Lame.

Also, I find that the guys on here welcome everything that actually works. And your great experiences with BB technique are VALUABLE to this forum and help make it better, IMO. We need contributions from different view points and we need to get better. That's how it is done.

On the other hand, when a kid comes on here with no training history, doing a program for one week, nervous that his arms won't grow... his arms WILL GROW on the 5x5 if he ramps up properly, eats a surplus and rides it out until he stalls. Guaranteed. And in a few years if he is 280 and has 19 inch arms, like I believe you are/have, trying that same exact program would logically not drive his arms much further and he would probably benefit from trying something different, as long as he doesn't neglect the lifts that got him to that point.

My point is that I don't think there is really a conflict. You have a lot to pass onto some of the less experienced lifters such as myself, but posting one liners or sighs every time someone promotes the compound lifting that worked for them isn't the way to get that message across bro.
 
What's this? A rational discussion on conflicting training methods???

Good points all 'round.

IMHO, there's no reason that a beginner shouldn't be training on a linear plan, such as the 3x5 in the training vault. Just too much bang for your buck to ignore it. And you learn a lot about the bigger training picture as well, which is invaluable over time. Give a man a fish, he has lunch . .. teach him how to fish, he eats for a lifetime.

But it is very individual as well, and eventually branching out into other training styles if very helpful, if only to find out what doesn't work. And frankly, swapping back and forth between "strength" and "bodybuilding" routines may be a real formula for success for many, many people (depending on their goals).
 
Maybe it's the fact that cracks like Al's come out just about every time someone posts something that isn't in his/their routines.

Sure there are plenty of guys who go to the gym and become curl masters, but at the same time, that doesn't mean one should dismiss the "Flex or M&F" style workout routines. There are plenty of people who have used those programs and had sucess. Usually the kids that struggle with gains are the ones who do not read the article or the reasononing behind the routines. These will be the same kids who start doing 5x5 type programs and still have problems making gains because they skip steps in that program too.

I've been on plenty of forums and this type of attitude (Squats and milk) is becoming more prevelant, and it does disappointment me that is becoming more common here. Why the one liners and *sighs*? Mainly out of frustration with this type of close minded views I am seeing here on a regular basis now.
 
Did someone say my name - I feel special. Sorry my post's cause you to post - I am a powerful MoFo.

Squats and Milk will be the name of my next log.

Seriously Suaveone - I think you know your stuff, but the majority of the posts we get here are from new lifters, or weak BB's trying to get stronger. For both those trainees Squats and Deads are my answer - sorry if you disagree, but we all have our training ideas and obviously our differ.
 
thesuaveone said:
Maybe it's the fact that cracks like Al's come out just about every time someone posts something that isn't in his/their routines.

Sure there are plenty of guys who go to the gym and become curl masters, but at the same time, that doesn't mean one should dismiss the "Flex or M&F" style workout routines. There are plenty of people who have used those programs and had sucess. Usually the kids that struggle with gains are the ones who do not read the article or the reasononing behind the routines. These will be the same kids who start doing 5x5 type programs and still have problems making gains because they skip steps in that program too.

I've been on plenty of forums and this type of attitude (Squats and milk) is becoming more prevelant, and it does disappointment me that is becoming more common here. Why the one liners and *sighs*? Mainly out of frustration with this type of close minded views I am seeing here on a regular basis now.

People make those one liners because people spend their downtime during the day at work, etc. on this board... and same questions are asked by different noobs who don't have the consideration to scroll a little bit to see if it has been asked. After awhile, it begins to grate.

I'll never forget the responses I got when I asked about my right side being stronger than my left and how I could fix it. But now I see people asking that very same question a couple times a week and I can understand how people were frustrated when I asked that.

Beyond that all I can say is on my 5x5 bulk from September 1st to December 1st I gained more strength than I ever did in the previous two-three years of benching once a week and doing legs once a week and eating 6 meals a day but not eating enough because I didn't know how many calories I was actually eating COMBINED. It was no less than a revelation, and if you're telling me that this knowledge is spreading I am happy to hear that man.

Weider publications, if you read them on a monthly basis, actually promote total body lifting for beginners and evolving into a body part split by your 3rd year... but its barely written and never in headlines. Mostly it's just CUTLER'S PEC SHOCK ROUTINE!
 
IMO, the BB'ing/Weider/80s BB'ing bodypart split stuff is a TERRIBLE way to start and given the average training age of the people who ask questions online, it's a real disservice, again IMO, to hand that out as advice. I think it just steers them down the wrong path. It works great for noobs b/c well, anything works well for noobs. But the bodypart split stuff, like suaveone acknowledged, is geared toward people who are more advanced and (a) need bodypart improvements and (b) know how to use the splits without losing focus of basic, progressive training. It's like giving nitrous to a kid just learning how to drive. He'll wreck the fucking car.

Also, the 5x5-type stuff* has a rich pedigree and has built many many physiques, so it's tried and true and you can't really go wrong with it. So I see it (and similar programs) as basically foolproof and almost guaranteed to work for the vast majority of online trainees who have attention spans of a horny teen w/ ADHD.

*Basic 3x/wk. barbell training using a few compound movements and adding weight, reps, or sets in a logical, progressive fashion
 
Protobuilder said:
Also, the 5x5-type stuff* has a rich pedigree and has built many many physiques...

As has split training.

The problem I have had with poster's here is they seem to think that nobody has ever been able to progress with split training without being some sort of genetic freak. At this point, I have no interest in trying to get people to think splits or the 5x5 type programs are better. Each have their own pros and cons, and each person will react differently to each type.
 
It's like giving nitrous to a kid just learning how to drive. He'll wreck the fucking car.

Great way to put it - and for the record Suaveone I am not hating at all, even though as I re-read some of my posts it sounds that way...lol

To me, it is important to learn the core lifts first, build a base, learn your body, learn to eat, and then experiment. Not experiment w/ what "Ronnie does to blast his delts" then next month "Cutlers massive arm day"...

Also - I trained FLEX style for years, and I trained hard. I have made much better gains on a heavy weight/low rep scheme focused on increasing poundages ont he core lifts. So all I am doing is speaking from direct experience...even is I do it a little asshattedly!


attention span of a horny teen w/ ADHD.

This will be the new log name, not Squats and Milk - I like this better.
 
If you guys don't mind I'm gonna play devil's advocate here for a second just since there is actually a decent convo in this thread...

We all, I believe I can safely say, know people (or see people at the gym) who haven't progressed much in the department of overall size and strength using a 5 day BB split.

Do you know anyone who has NOT noticeably progressed in the areas of overall size and strength by progressively training compound lifts?
 
Yes. "Progressive" is easier said than done. It's required for serious strength and size, but sometimes it's akin to telling someone, "Just lift more weight." OK . . . HOW? LoL If you don't figure it out on your own, and don't make smart adjustments, you wind up "trying" to train progressively and failing. "I know, from experience dude, if you know what I mean." LoL
 
I know numerous people with the attention span of the typical ADHD kid who have given up on 5x5 programs before the end of week 4 (the typical 9 week program). Granted, many of them will quit and not succeed at any program, but then again, that wasn't the question asked.
 
thesuaveone said:
I know numerous people with the attention span of the typical ADHD kid who have given up on 5x5 programs before the end of week 4 (the typical 9 week program). Granted, many of them will quit and not succeed at any program, but then again, that wasn't the question asked.

Well it is fair to say the 5x5 is incredibly taxing, especially for someone that doesn't like to squat. As you know, going to the gym and squatting every time is physically taxing until you are acustom to the volume, and mentally taxing till you decide you like squatting. Hell, I can have 'fear' about upcoming workouts just knowing what my top set will be...

Do you think they 'gave up' due to the load, or the effort, or just didn't think it would work - the first 4 weeks are the easiest. I know a few people that use the 'I have bad knees' as an excuse to stop doing it.

To me, 5x5, HST, DC, or even some M&F routines (some is used very sparingly) all will work. Problem is most people won't eat, don't progress weight or volume, and steer clear of lift's that 'hurt'. For them the lactic acid burn on their 100th crunch is as much as they want - they don't want to be in the hole scared they won't come out. When it comes down to it, add weight to the bar, and punish yourself in the gym. I don't care how many reps you do.

I think it's important to re-iterate that the majority of the questions asked in this forum are asked by untrained, small, poorly dieted, children who 'want' but won't 'work' for size. The same people make threads in the AAS forum about 'getting ripped for summer, what cycle is best bors' This is why I 'slang' the 3x5 or 5x5 as they are perfect and fail-proof for a beginner.


FFQuads is a great example to Suaveones side (not that we have to be on sides..lol)...he didn't start the 5x5 till summer 2006 and the pics in his profile are from before that.
 
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