Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below I did a fina conversion using Bill Roberts no BB/BA method. Used grapeseed oil and did a triple filtration using a coffee filter, .45 micron and .20 micron Whatman. I don't know if I got it more concentrated or lost a lot of tren in the filters but I ended up with somewhere between 30-35 mL of oil. I figure 40 mg/mL would be a reasonable assumption. This was my very first IM injection and very first use of an AAS. Used a 25 gauge, 1.5 in pin and felt virtually nothing when I jabbed. I barely felt the oil going in (I can understand why it would give you a cough with the BA, something tightened in my lungs I think, but very slightly) It was much less dramatic than I thought it would be so I started to wonder if the tren was really there. But it's about 15-20 minutes later...I feel power!!!! It almost feels a bit like an initial dose of Adderall. How long should I wait before assaulting the gym? Any other feedback besides the whole tren is not a first time AAS drug? After my experience with the ADD drugs, I've determined that more potent=more benefit, less sides for the buck. I am going to do 1cc injections ED or EOD for 2-3 weeks now and see how it goes. Plan to just assault my GI tract with vitamins, minerals, and as much amino acids as it will take.
Broke my AAS cherry with 120 mg or so of Tren Ace
- Thread starter tornpie
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Damn!!! That was a fun workout!!! I don't know if it was a psychological thing but I was cranking out sets like nothing at nearly 90% of my one rep max on many exercises. I kept going until my energy completely gave out. Almost forgot that I am 32 and not 19 anymore. Feel like I am going to explode from drinking nearly a gallon of milk mixed with whey powder. Never hit the protein this hard either. Worried about my appetite not being able to keep up with the demands of the tren.
Boxingheels
New member
Not really sure Tren is the best choice for your first cycle bro. I think you started this before doing enough research. You may want to discontinue and do some research. Not trying to burst your bubble bro but I would discontinue.
brandonp005
New member
^^^First cycle ever, using Tren and guessing on the dosage huh....sounds like a disaster waiting to happen...be careful with this shit....scenerio's like this is what gives Anabolics a bad name!
dr.shavargo
New member
I read constantly as much as I could for six weeks. I read LLewelyn, Hart, Rea, etc. I visited all the major forums and read everyone's experiences. I read whatever medical research I stumbled across (for tren this was effects on livestock). I got my bloodwork done. I consulted my PCP, visited an endocrinologist, etc. I guess there are many medical reasons other than bodybuilding I chose tren.
I understand fully. I can feel the desire to keep going at that dose, push myself beyond reason, and not have the rest of my body keep up. Fortunately, I have some people I talk to IRL with a lot of experience with BB and AAS. Oddly enough, they've only used things like winny, d-bol, a-bomb, and t-bol. Have yet to talk to someone using tren. I guess people don't run around with a tattoo on their foreheads announcing this shit.
I am making this a test run of 2-3 weeks to get a feel for the tren alone. I want to make tren a basic building block of any stack I put together for it's high quality lean mass and prevention of cortisol induced catabalism PCT. From everything I've learned, I think using anything to get quick massive gains that are lost immediately to be a bad trade off between the potential problems of AAS to the benefits.
Next tren cycle will definitely be run with test. My first cycle was meant to be a test run of getting familiar with tren alone since I want to make it the core of my stacks. From what I've read, the test/tren is core to many people's ultimate stack.
I think it was slightly more than a placebo. I admit I think a lot was, but something felt so different within minutes of the IM. I think the tren set a bunch of biochemical things into action. I don't think it takes much of a change biochemically to cause major strength and other changes.
I'm not too concerned about AI or PCT for the moment. I am on selegiline(Emsam 9mg/24hr transdermal) already, have plenty of B6 and dl-phenylalanine to cause dopamine induce prolactin inhibition at will. The endocrinologist seemed to want to wait it out before writing a script for dostinex. I can get either PCP or Endo to write for nolva. Many that I've talked to didn't use a PCT cycle, so at least for my initial first two week cycle, I want to see how it is without PCT. In fact, I am a bit more interested in the cortisol receptor properties of tren and want to witness first hand the anti-catabolic effect of post tren muscle retention.
My age is 32, height is 5'11", weight is 330, bf around 30-35%, obviously male. Have been fairly athletic most of my life. Wrestled, played football, but was more of a scholar. What actually led me to doing a tren only cycle and actually getting me to try it is the science of it. Furthermore, I think cortisol definitely played(still possibly plays) a role in my athletic and personal plateaus in my life.
I didn't say they advised it. In fact they are very anti-all AAS. Some didn't know what they were talking about. From what I've read, tren itself is pretty safe compared to most. Little if any metabolism in the liver, the kidney thing is probably false, and its potency seems to make it so that since one gets such a major anabolic effect, the side effects can be contained. The trouble is in what is stacked with tren and the preparation of the injectable. I am highly suspicious that the BB/BA addition to tren, particularly the BA causes many of the harsh side effects of tren acetate at least. 50-100 mg/day of tren A itself over a reasonable time (say 12-16 weeks or less) period should not cause any problems. Of course I'm not including the fact that people may overtrain on tren causing ligament and tendon issues, improper nutrition and supplementation,poor training technique and other non-tren caused issues.
dr.shavargo
New member
^ you have no clue what your doing...
only did 6 weeks of research? most on here research for months if not years before they try anything
and saying that running tren for 12-16 weeks would not cause problems is highly false
its one of the more toxic compounds to lthe liver and shouldnt be run past 8 weeks
also nolva should never be used with tren either...
you have contradicted every know rule of tren in all your post!
listen to the people here that KNOW what they are doing for your own good and well being.
only did 6 weeks of research? most on here research for months if not years before they try anything
and saying that running tren for 12-16 weeks would not cause problems is highly false
its one of the more toxic compounds to lthe liver and shouldnt be run past 8 weeks
also nolva should never be used with tren either...
you have contradicted every know rule of tren in all your post!
listen to the people here that KNOW what they are doing for your own good and well being.
Only1eagle
New member
I will not say you need to stop since it seems you have already gotten all your tests in place and have done some research.
Tren is a great drug but it isnt a wonder drug. I have run many tren cycle alone myself and had great results.
The one thing that really bothers me is your BF%. at 30-35% BF your not even in a state of mind to do any AAS. You surely do not have your diet in check nor are you serious about your time in the gym.
Please be careful as we all look out for each other here on the boards and I think everyone here does not want to see someone hurt themselves with something they do not yet know.
Tren is a great drug but it isnt a wonder drug. I have run many tren cycle alone myself and had great results.
The one thing that really bothers me is your BF%. at 30-35% BF your not even in a state of mind to do any AAS. You surely do not have your diet in check nor are you serious about your time in the gym.
Please be careful as we all look out for each other here on the boards and I think everyone here does not want to see someone hurt themselves with something they do not yet know.
In fact, for every mg of tren I plan to use, I've probably spent at least 10 minutes of research. For every dollar I've spent on tren itself, I've spent/will spend at least $10 on supplementation and nutrition. It was to the point if I waited for everything to be perfect, it would become uneconomical, theoretical exercise. Sometimes you just gotta grab the bull by the horns and accept that life will never hand you a perfect pre-made scenario and the only way to find things out is to go for it.
I took 120mg the first IM because I am a firm believer in front loading, particularly for a two week cycle. Granted, I don't have any AAS experience, but I do have pharmacokinetic experience. I would almost say one of my golden rules to any exogenous substance administered medicinally is safest and most effective when the plasma levels are as consistent as possible. Furthermore, pragmatically speaking, since it is a 2-3 week cycle, I want as much on time as possible. That doesn't leave me much time to mess around waiting for the level that makes gains possible.
I took 120mg the first IM because I am a firm believer in front loading, particularly for a two week cycle. Granted, I don't have any AAS experience, but I do have pharmacokinetic experience. I would almost say one of my golden rules to any exogenous substance administered medicinally is safest and most effective when the plasma levels are as consistent as possible. Furthermore, pragmatically speaking, since it is a 2-3 week cycle, I want as much on time as possible. That doesn't leave me much time to mess around waiting for the level that makes gains possible.
dr.shavargo
New member
^ yes i forgot to mention that your size and BF% of 30-35% is no where near being close to even consider AAS compunds. get you diet in check first!
I agree about the BF. I walk at least 3 miles 3-5 a week with at least 1 mile of it being hills. Some days I walk upwards of 12. My thyroid always checks out ok and my diet isn't great but it's not obscenely out of whack right now due to economics. My lipids are usually fantastic, but due to the less than desirable diet they are merely "really good". My bp is usually 130/80. I am nearly bulletproof physiologically so far. That day may be coming to a close which is part of the personal, non-scientific reason for doing my cycle.
dr.shavargo
New member
well it seems that your not going to listen to anyone here cause your so dead set on doing this so goodluck
brandonp005
New member
with your weight and body fat, i would have stuck with diet and cardio rather than Tren...my opinion is your heart isn't in the best shape and the tren will not help the matter
I still wish you the best of luck and please keep a close eye on your health. Plus I wouldn't listen much to your buddies that only have experience with winny, abombs, dbol, and tbol. Notice all the orals? Dont think they know much about taking care of their bodies in my opinion.
I still wish you the best of luck and please keep a close eye on your health. Plus I wouldn't listen much to your buddies that only have experience with winny, abombs, dbol, and tbol. Notice all the orals? Dont think they know much about taking care of their bodies in my opinion.
I agree about the orals. They do stack them with test though. They may not care too much about their bodies but they are super strong. I think they only use that which they have the easiest access to. I may eventually try short oral tests though.
As far as bodyweight, I agree with you somewhat. I was in much better shape aerobically when I was younger. My plan is to alternate intense cardio with intense lean muscle gain. I think I think I've failed in weight control because of focusing too much on one or the other. My heart is a champ though but I don't know how many more years I have left giving that guarantee.
I know it's very premature, but I'm starting to feel very vindicated with my choice of tren. My stress level seems lowered, general optimism is very high, and I feel strong. The biggest side effects I was concerned about were the anxiety, insomnia, and aggression issues. I bought plenty of kava kava extract to address these issues. However, I think in my case, the mental issues were the biggest obstacle to serious gains in my physical aptitude. I would like to think that trens ability to so heavy handedly suppress cortisol activity will give benefits to more than offset the negatives with my course of action. Furthermore, the strength and lean mass gains will add to a general sense of optimism. These will probably be of enormous benefit to my heart, even though my lipids and blood pressure may suffer temporarily. I'm even suspicious that the reduction in stress may totally suppress any hair loss issues.
Right now I am cautiously optimistic. I'm of the opinion that as long as things stay generally within reason I have nothing to worry about. I'm also of the opinion that if things would head south, the short half life of tren ace will be of great service if I need to suddenly stop.
One thing I am really hoping for is that my method of preparation reduces the respiratory problems associated with tren to the point that I can engage in meaningful cardio. So far, I've experienced little of the sides normally associated with tren. Again, all of this is premature, but there will be only one way to find out.
I think what I'm bothered by is the constant opinion that tren is not a novice drug. I guess if your goal is to take your body building to the highest levels, it is a valid point. However, I am looking to tren to bust my ass out of a rut which will probably carry much more serious long term effects than tren. I would consider my use to be more medicinal and somewhat experimental. We need to remember that most medicine or exogenous substances do have toxicity associated with them. It should always be viewed in cost/benefit terms. Can my heart handle two weeks of elevated bp, increased lipids, increased exertion? Absolutely. Probably more than many people even on these boards. My heart has been constantly checked over the years and always seems unremarkable to cardiologists. Will my heart benefit long term from the cortisol reduction, increased lean muscle mass, increase in confidence, breaking through previously insurmountable obstacles? I would say it is extremely likely. Will I have insight on the widespread problem of cortisol causing neurodegenerative and autoimmune disorders I am consistently confronted with from very much younger friends with far less bf than me? I'm hoping so.
That was the main reason to really rouse me to action. I'm very suspicious that since my friends are usually highly intelligent, some of them have had high cortisol and norepinepherine through their lives which made them highly intelligent. Many were victims of child abuse and suffer from complex post traumatic stress disorder. One day one tells me they are likely coming down with multiple sclerosis, another day one tells me they are coming down with type II diabetes. Something that I think that is a real credit to bodybuilding and the use of ergogenic aids is the fact that if what they know would be organized and analyzed, many people suffering from so many diseases could be helped.
Obviously, I have had problems with depression, body dismorphic disorder, and low self-esteem. It was caused by unimaginable emotional abuse by my mother. I could only perform so well when this hardwired need to earn my mother's love would cause me to collapse into self-doubt. I did a bit of drug abuse and while getting clean realized that many that were getting clean had these strange issues come to light. I believe that for many, drug and alcohol abuse suppressed hormonal issues that would emerge as autoimmune or neurodegenerative disorers. My personal recovery was very frustrated feeling powerless and listening to these stories over and over again. I got very pissed with the psychiatrists not exploring new ways to help them. One thing I can say about myself is that I am highly rigorous in my science, intolerable to shoddy and half-assed work, and expect accountability and integrity from people. I am always willing to put my money where my mouth is. I would probably regret not doing tren if I waited until my body couldn't take it.
Unfortunately, with the current regulatory environment and conservative, pharmaceutical profit driven practice of medicine, I do not think that whatever I find will be of practical value in a reasonable amount of time. I believe that we live in a terribly unnatural environment that our bodies and minds are unable to adapt to quick enough. It would be nice to say people need to eat better or exercise more or have more self-acceptance, but I think this is too simple of an answer. I think we need more knowledge and be able to disperse that knowledge better. Finally, I think that drugs that enhance both physical and mental performance are not only necessary to enable all of mankind to keep up with out of control science and technology, but even evolve into something better. I tell people to not be afraid of science and technology but look more towards the unbreakable human spirit to kick ass into the future. That involves taking risks like I am. One BB in a forum had his signature as "The greatest risk of all is not taking risks."
Anyhow, sorry about the pontificating, but I think that tren is a very misunderstood AAS and possibly overlooked key to advancing the treatment of many maladies. Obviously, an AAS would never be the general solution, but it's a step and I'm hoping to get more intuition to further my investigations. I wish I had more resources and more credibility within medicine (I study physics and mathematics after all) to make a real difference. I've started to sketch out some groundbreaking work setting math to biology, particularly in drug abuse and addiction.
The cool doctors I talked to expressed that even though they disagreed with my choice, they found my questions and ideas fascinating. I was hoping they would figure out a way to avoid the whole medical ethics problem of researching AAS use and help me put this into a formal project. The sensible ones weren't worried about short term problems, but the fact that often the use of AAS turns long term and obviously the legality.
Anyhow, I appreciate everyone's concern. I kind of needed to brag about my AAS cherry popping somewhere and expected a bit of this reaction. I hope that I explained my choice well and that I made everyone aware that I did as much to prevent problems as I could. I also am in frequent contact with doctors and have people monitoring my health.
RADAR
Well-known member
Very Nice Post!
But a very stupid reasoning for doing Tren, You have just opened Pandora's box down the road you will be in for some very unpleasant suprises.Why do i say this? because at approaching 60 i have done it all.Tren has a way of messing with you ,as i am sure you will find farther along down the road,and don't expect to "just come off" Tren stays in your systen along time,i guess you didn't read that it will kill your sex drive.
since i know this will fall on death ears all i can say is "good luck chuck"!
My endocrinologist used emphasis on the libido issue. I'm actually looking forward to settling down a little bit for a time. I have no gf right now. Not interested in the women around me because they are sure to mess up my life.
So far I've noticed a very improved mood, lessened anxiety, and more energy. People are mentioning how much more radiant I am right now. I think the tren is working right away on the cortisol and a bit slower on the anabolism. I feel stronger and more secure. There is a slight bronchial constriction, but I haven't been winded or anything yet. I have started to sweat a hell of a lot though.
I've read that some tren users experience lessened side effects if they keep themselves well hydrated. I've been drinking water as much as I can, usually when I am not drinking whey. My urine seems pretty dilute despite the aminos, vitamins, minerals, and other shit I am cramming down my throat. I'm suspicious that tren just needs the right environment to work in to not get all finicky.
So far I am wondering what all the fuss is about. I've felt much harsher sides from FDA approved substances that gave me little benefit if any.
Whoa...six whole weeks?
120mg or so of tren?
Stop what you're doing now as you obviously have no idea of what it is that you are doing.
Take that six weeks you spent researching, extend that 50 times over and then maybe you'll have enough knowledge to do this correctly and safely.
That was my frontload. Going to 40mg ED or EOD.
no reason to front load tren ace. You should stop the cycle, you will have some problems later on.
It's a two week cycle. I want to be on as much of that two weeks as possible with a constant level. The smoother the kinetics the less side effects and more benefit seems to hold true with any drug. Unless of course, one wants to get high or sedated or something like that.
what do u expect to happen in two weeks? why do u think at 330lbs and 35%bf an aas is going to help you? why are u chugging gallons of milk with protein? why would u want your body to be put in an anabolic state are your weight? do u want to weigh 400lbs? what site did u actually use during your 'six week aas info binge"
Eat right and do cardio. graduate from walking to cycling to running. burn that fat off you. your 'crusade' of getting back in shape is going to take time. like a year or two. aas doesnt take fat guys and turn them into barry bonds. thats not how it works. im sorry dude. ur just all wrong here but i wish u the best.....
Eat right and do cardio. graduate from walking to cycling to running. burn that fat off you. your 'crusade' of getting back in shape is going to take time. like a year or two. aas doesnt take fat guys and turn them into barry bonds. thats not how it works. im sorry dude. ur just all wrong here but i wish u the best.....
I could take off 100 lbs or more in two months, but I would sacrifice a lot of lean mass. In high school I tried to wrestle 189 but ended up being so weak by the end of the season it was pathetic. I want to focus on both lean mass increase and body fat decrease simultaneously. I think the mistake most people make is focusing totally on one or the other. The lean muscle seems to make it easier to burn fat and keep it off.
I've always lost weight when I eat more actually. From what I've found out about the tren it seems to me that it can take whatever is thrown at it.
You know I could always say the hell with fat loss and go straight for strength and power. My body is built for pure power and has sustained tremendous impacts and trauma resulting in no broken bones among other things. I am actually a bit of a runt compared to many in my family and lifting friends. I come from a very sturdy line of farmers and usually am around some seriously strong guys when in the gym. I feel ashamed watching some of them put up at least 400 sometimes going for 600 lb benches. The family in particular (which is very anti-drug btw), are very big. Putting up this kind of weight isn't even something they work hard at. That's what I get for being a city boy.
You sound like you've read a lot.
That being said, I would trust the advise of joe d, needto, swole, Southern Lord, Nelson, Ross, and many many other good bros over any medical journal I've read. They have experience, and while everyone reacts differently, their experience is priceless.
I would seriously stop experimenting on yourself, especially with a home brew.
BTW, one thing that is impossible to find in researching all of this is a consensus. The only consensus I've found about tren is that it is best with test and the fina cough issue. The only thing I think is reasonable advice anymore is find what works and if something doesn't try something else. I like the idea of the short tren cycle. There are sites that seem to think it is not a bad idea for beginners to start with tren if doing a short cycle. Usually they recommend stacking with test or d-bol, both of which I am looking forward to trying.
I figured the only way I'm going to know for sure is to just go ahead and try it. I am pretty sure I won't get it perfect this time but it would be naive to think that I know every possible reaction my body will give me. Sometimes there's a leap of faith involved with this sort of thing.
I'm hoping to achieve a few pound lean mass gain couple with the loss of a few pounds. Ideally, 2 on/2 off or even up to 6 on/6 off tren based cycles over an entire year would add up to a hell of a lot of lean mass replacing fat. I may do a longer deca or eq based cycle to focus more on endurance later in the summer. If I have the money, primo and/or var may come in. However, I'm still leaning a little more towards the shorter boldenone acetate proprionate and/or nandrolone phenylproprionate esters though for a shorter cycle. I've also looked at playing with clen, t3, keto, and dnp.
I figured the only way I'm going to know for sure is to just go ahead and try it. I am pretty sure I won't get it perfect this time but it would be naive to think that I know every possible reaction my body will give me. Sometimes there's a leap of faith involved with this sort of thing.
I'm hoping to achieve a few pound lean mass gain couple with the loss of a few pounds. Ideally, 2 on/2 off or even up to 6 on/6 off tren based cycles over an entire year would add up to a hell of a lot of lean mass replacing fat. I may do a longer deca or eq based cycle to focus more on endurance later in the summer. If I have the money, primo and/or var may come in. However, I'm still leaning a little more towards the shorter boldenone acetate proprionate and/or nandrolone phenylproprionate esters though for a shorter cycle. I've also looked at playing with clen, t3, keto, and dnp.
d_rson
New member
Better research that one. Trust me, research it. Don't think you want to run short ester bolds.
This thread makes me feel like I have entered into another dimension. You make it almost sound feasible what you are doing, like you've somehow convinced yourself. But yet it's got to be one of the most pointless things I have ever heard - 2 week tren (of varied wimsical dosing) to see how you "react" to a tren only cycle...
And nolva and tren don't mix. Probably missed that in your 6 weeks of reading.
At your body fat percentage taking an OTC aromatase inhibitor and following a good diet/ training programm will result in better results without the side effects then doing the above approach. You have high estrogen right now because fat produces aromatase which converts test into estro. The weeks between your tren cycle you will have no androgens in your system because of hpta shut down and will only have estrogen which will lead to more fat gain and loss of muscle.
dr.shavargo
New member
your probably pinning straight into fat at 35% bf
2 weeks is going to nothing for you, nor should you ever had started until your atleast 15%bf
2 weeks is going to nothing for you, nor should you ever had started until your atleast 15%bf
Never said anything about nolva. If you meant nandrolone, yeah it doesn't seem like a good mix.
My quads are pretty solid. Asked a nurse about IM injection and she said that 1.5" is more than enough to hit muscle.
Ha 1.5" in the quad? OMG
I can tell by your posts you are an intelligent articulate individual. However, knowledge is a tricky thing especially when playing with hormones. You may know your shit, be the best at your job, but by no means having read for 6 weeks do you really know shit about AAS; that is unless you have some previous medical knowledge you are not divulging. I am not a fool and spent almost 3 months doing research on HGH before I even thought about buying some. Then for 2 more months I read about test before adding that and still hounded this site and others for info to make sure I was not doing something stupid. And you on the other hand come to this site with what you feel is the holly grail of knowledge; you feel your 6 weeks is adequate enough for tren! HAHA. GLTY to you as the dr's will not be able to help you from the pitfalls of tren it is not a clinically studied drug. Oh and btw I was less than 10% BF before I messed with any of this stuff. You don't have the physical dedication or intestinal fortitude for this; you are seeking what your mind is telling you is the easy way. In 5 months you will be sitting on the couch unfortunately larger than ever watching porn with no chance of ejaculating. I am not mean, nasty or a jerk I am just a realist...
I can tell by your posts you are an intelligent articulate individual. However, knowledge is a tricky thing especially when playing with hormones. You may know your shit, be the best at your job, but by no means having read for 6 weeks do you really know shit about AAS; that is unless you have some previous medical knowledge you are not divulging. I am not a fool and spent almost 3 months doing research on HGH before I even thought about buying some. Then for 2 more months I read about test before adding that and still hounded this site and others for info to make sure I was not doing something stupid. And you on the other hand come to this site with what you feel is the holly grail of knowledge; you feel your 6 weeks is adequate enough for tren! HAHA. GLTY to you as the dr's will not be able to help you from the pitfalls of tren it is not a clinically studied drug. Oh and btw I was less than 10% BF before I messed with any of this stuff. You don't have the physical dedication or intestinal fortitude for this; you are seeking what your mind is telling you is the easy way. In 5 months you will be sitting on the couch unfortunately larger than ever watching porn with no chance of ejaculating. I am not mean, nasty or a jerk I am just a realist...
so yes you did mention nolva. i dont know why u insist on not listening to anyone on here.
so yes you did mention nolva. i dont know why u insist on not listening to anyone on here.
Oh I guess I did. That would have been more for PCT. However, many report that nolva worked better for them with tren than bromocriptine or cabergoline.
You'd be amazed at what I can do in 6 weeks. I thought it was way too long and I was dragging my feet being a pussy. Only so much research will do.
I'll match your Einstein quote with some Feynman:
"I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. Of course, you only live one life, and you make all your mistakes, and learn what not to do, and that's the end of you."
Part 5: "The World of One Physicist", "The 7 Percent Solution"
"I don't know what's the matter with people: they don't learn by understanding, they learn by some other way — by rote or something. Their knowledge is so fragile!"
Surely You're Joking Mr. Feynman
Anyhow, today's IM was much less harsh than past two days. Very little effect on lungs. People noticed much more liveliness and radiance in me today. They say I am changing for the better.
Haha I love how you completely ingnor all of my comments and grab onto a small quote in the signature of my post. This and a few of your comments speak volumes about your mental state. You completely ignore what you don't want to hear and focus on what you can challange. Trying to boast about inteligence but what you are missing is experience with hormones.
C0LUMB0
Moderator
Cant believe what i'm reading here , you seem to be trying to blow people away with your so-called vast knowledge on chemical compounds and such ,then you come out with this hum-dinger of a statement.
Listen to what the guys here have said to you , your academic achievements are not going to be able to help you when this starts to go all wrong.
Put your health first bro...
d_rson
New member
Nolva in PCT right after tren is a no-no as well. Guess that was in week 7 reading.
C0LUMB0
Moderator
d_rson
New member
The thing is, it might not even go wrong. He's doing nothing positive here. He claims he wanted to see what tren would do to him, but he's only doing it for two weeks. He's not going to see the nasty side effects, and he's not going to get any real benefit out of it. So it may actually "go okay" and he'll think he somehow won in this venture. But the truth is that he never got any benefit from it, and never saw what it will really do. So smooth or rough, his two week run will be a losing endeavor for him. But he's convinced himself, through selective reading for 6 weeks (selective as in, he already made up his mind, so he read and retained only that which supported his initial conclusion), that his plan is the be-all of plans - and even if it doesn't "go wrong" for him, he's going to twist the results to benefit his initial theory that lead him down this path. That's how people try to look smart.
the thing is i reason that the whole point of his 'venture' was to see the dose he would run when he actually stacks this with test and whatever else he was planning on running (was in one of his first posts) So thats when things will go wrong for him. When he runs a 12-16 week cycle of tren and test eventually he will be one big heifer ready for slaughter. i guess theres some pun intended (finiplex). sorry mods =(
C0LUMB0
Moderator
Well said ...thats it in a nutshell !
A
ALIN
Guest
I'm going to keep my eye on this thread.
Should be interesting. My personal experience
with TREN only cycles have not always been good.
Lol, this is funny. I think everyone else is just as eager as I am to see the results. I don't know why it isn't sensible to see what tren does on a short term before doing a longer term run. Obviously if you can't handle it for 2-4 weeks, why plan a bigger cycle around it?
Anyhow, so far if it wasn't for the incredible increases in lifting, I would have thought that I lost all the tren in the filters. I have no significant side effects to report apart from only needing to jerk off once a day and harder to fall asleep and stay asleep.
Besides that, the bp is normalizing, sweating is possibly less than usual except during above average physical exertion, and my aerobic capacity is slightly increasing. I am able to nearly run up hills that I previously was able to walk at average pace. I am limited only by lactic acid removal in calves. Even at my weight, I walk faster than most people, so now my fat ass is damn near running up hills on tren of all things. On my top ten list of shit I wanted to figure out for my personal fitness goals is will tren affect my ability to do cardio. The answer so far is not just no, but it is improving! Instead of being aggressive and hostile, I am much less high strung and very relaxed around people. My confidence and vitality is really shining through so much so that I could have number closed several very attractive women today. I guess I am still concerned about tren dick and getting something started with a girl at this time could prove to be rather embarrassing.
This stuff is fucking unbelievable though. I stared at the vial for a few minutes in the days leading up to the first IM thinking, "Look at how beautiful it is, it holds the potential to change my life significantly." So far, it is performing beyond my expectations. I am slacking on my eating discipline, but I am eating everything in sight and my pants are starting to fall off my ass. I keep having to use tighter holes on my belt.
Recovery time is fucking absurd. I can go all out every other day. I'm limited by energy though. Seems like I have to add 10-20 lbs to several exercises. I am currently trying to plan out a more efficient exercise itinerary. It almost seems like this is something no one can really figure out until one is actually on gear.
Overall, I am feeling outstanding. Haven't felt this good physically and mentally in years, and in certain ways, possibly never. I may cave in and go longer than the planned 2 weeks adding another AAS and PCT possibly. Otherwise, I may take a break to shrink my stomach somewhat as it is getting in the way of effective ab and back work a bit.
My guess is that adding the benzyl alcohol to the mix is what causes the lung problem and possibly other side effects. Furthermore, I can tell this shit is hardcore, so keeping the levels fairly stable are probably the absolute key! Imagine a menopausal or pregnant woman and a estrogen version of a tren. I think my weight, the frontloading, and daily injections may be smoothing out the hormone levels. Wish I had a way to test this hypothesis objectively. I'm also highly supplemented as far as vitamins, minerals, etc:
9mg/24hr Emsam (selegiline transdermal)
750 mg DL-phenylalanine
regular multivitamin
1000 mg magnesium
600 mg chromium picolinate
500 mg niacinamide
100 mg pyrodoxine hydrochloride
2000 mg fish oil
600 mg R alpha lipoic acid
30 mg NADH
200 mg modafinil
30-40 g glutamine
5-20 g creatine
6 g AAKG
5 g beta alanine
5 g citrulline malate
at least 300 g protein in whey, eggs, milk, etc.
50 mg Zinc
1800 mg green tea extract
200 mcg selenium
200 mcg Huperzine A
Yes, I know there are other things I should be taking, most notably vitamins A,C,D,E,calcium,BCAA's,etc. Funding is a bit limited currently.
My next cycle will probably depend on what I can free up financially. Ideally it would be a 8 week test,tren,mast based super cutting cycle with different orals at different stages. The other option is a deca/eq/test cycle. Something that I can simultaneously gain lean muscle while losing fat. From what I am experiencing right now, I don't think it out of the question that a constant 2 on/2 off tren only would result in consistent ~5 bf loss and ~5 lbs lean muscle increase even with a sloppy diet and exercise routine. Obviously that would become asymptotic after a while, but given a year of this, I wouldn't put money on it NOT working.
One last thing, the whole nolva/tren question is far from cut and dried. It seems like some people swear by the combo while others say it makes it worse. I actually think I've only read one post in all the forums saying that nolva made his tren based gyno worse. The exact mechanism for gyno and tren based gyno is not all that clear on an individual basis. I guess the NSF needs to fund more man boob studies. We need to write our local congressmen NOW!
As for me, I'm not too highly concerned since I am on Emsam and take a shitload of B6 anyways. I also still have adolescent onset gyno that I plan to get operated on in the next year. Any increased tit generation can be taken care of all at once. Also, I can always jack up the dl-phenylalanine, pyrodoxine, l-tyrosine intake to keep dopamine going strong to shut down any significant prolactin. In fact I'm already getting a shitload from diet and supplementation, moreso than any doctor in his right mind would be comfortable with. One thing I do know about myself is that I can run my dopamine rich.
Anyhow, so far if it wasn't for the incredible increases in lifting, I would have thought that I lost all the tren in the filters. I have no significant side effects to report apart from only needing to jerk off once a day and harder to fall asleep and stay asleep.
Besides that, the bp is normalizing, sweating is possibly less than usual except during above average physical exertion, and my aerobic capacity is slightly increasing. I am able to nearly run up hills that I previously was able to walk at average pace. I am limited only by lactic acid removal in calves. Even at my weight, I walk faster than most people, so now my fat ass is damn near running up hills on tren of all things. On my top ten list of shit I wanted to figure out for my personal fitness goals is will tren affect my ability to do cardio. The answer so far is not just no, but it is improving! Instead of being aggressive and hostile, I am much less high strung and very relaxed around people. My confidence and vitality is really shining through so much so that I could have number closed several very attractive women today. I guess I am still concerned about tren dick and getting something started with a girl at this time could prove to be rather embarrassing.
This stuff is fucking unbelievable though. I stared at the vial for a few minutes in the days leading up to the first IM thinking, "Look at how beautiful it is, it holds the potential to change my life significantly." So far, it is performing beyond my expectations. I am slacking on my eating discipline, but I am eating everything in sight and my pants are starting to fall off my ass. I keep having to use tighter holes on my belt.
Recovery time is fucking absurd. I can go all out every other day. I'm limited by energy though. Seems like I have to add 10-20 lbs to several exercises. I am currently trying to plan out a more efficient exercise itinerary. It almost seems like this is something no one can really figure out until one is actually on gear.
Overall, I am feeling outstanding. Haven't felt this good physically and mentally in years, and in certain ways, possibly never. I may cave in and go longer than the planned 2 weeks adding another AAS and PCT possibly. Otherwise, I may take a break to shrink my stomach somewhat as it is getting in the way of effective ab and back work a bit.
My guess is that adding the benzyl alcohol to the mix is what causes the lung problem and possibly other side effects. Furthermore, I can tell this shit is hardcore, so keeping the levels fairly stable are probably the absolute key! Imagine a menopausal or pregnant woman and a estrogen version of a tren. I think my weight, the frontloading, and daily injections may be smoothing out the hormone levels. Wish I had a way to test this hypothesis objectively. I'm also highly supplemented as far as vitamins, minerals, etc:
9mg/24hr Emsam (selegiline transdermal)
750 mg DL-phenylalanine
regular multivitamin
1000 mg magnesium
600 mg chromium picolinate
500 mg niacinamide
100 mg pyrodoxine hydrochloride
2000 mg fish oil
600 mg R alpha lipoic acid
30 mg NADH
200 mg modafinil
30-40 g glutamine
5-20 g creatine
6 g AAKG
5 g beta alanine
5 g citrulline malate
at least 300 g protein in whey, eggs, milk, etc.
50 mg Zinc
1800 mg green tea extract
200 mcg selenium
200 mcg Huperzine A
Yes, I know there are other things I should be taking, most notably vitamins A,C,D,E,calcium,BCAA's,etc. Funding is a bit limited currently.
My next cycle will probably depend on what I can free up financially. Ideally it would be a 8 week test,tren,mast based super cutting cycle with different orals at different stages. The other option is a deca/eq/test cycle. Something that I can simultaneously gain lean muscle while losing fat. From what I am experiencing right now, I don't think it out of the question that a constant 2 on/2 off tren only would result in consistent ~5 bf loss and ~5 lbs lean muscle increase even with a sloppy diet and exercise routine. Obviously that would become asymptotic after a while, but given a year of this, I wouldn't put money on it NOT working.
One last thing, the whole nolva/tren question is far from cut and dried. It seems like some people swear by the combo while others say it makes it worse. I actually think I've only read one post in all the forums saying that nolva made his tren based gyno worse. The exact mechanism for gyno and tren based gyno is not all that clear on an individual basis. I guess the NSF needs to fund more man boob studies. We need to write our local congressmen NOW!
As for me, I'm not too highly concerned since I am on Emsam and take a shitload of B6 anyways. I also still have adolescent onset gyno that I plan to get operated on in the next year. Any increased tit generation can be taken care of all at once. Also, I can always jack up the dl-phenylalanine, pyrodoxine, l-tyrosine intake to keep dopamine going strong to shut down any significant prolactin. In fact I'm already getting a shitload from diet and supplementation, moreso than any doctor in his right mind would be comfortable with. One thing I do know about myself is that I can run my dopamine rich.
^^^ hilarious!!!!
i call bullshit man. im sorry but diet is by far mroe important then any aas, hormone, stim or beta antagonizer or anything else. DIET! DISCIPLINE! If you eat sloppy on tren u might get stronger but your not doing your body any favors. Your not going to lose bf%.
Good for u! I just wish u were doing things the right way and listening to some of the members on this board.
Shortness of breath is a side effect of tren. so i dont know where your goign with this. It has nothing to do with BA. I get it worse from tren acetate (finaplex) then i do with tren enan or tren hexa but it does show its ugly head in all three, just the latter is more gradual. tren ace hits me like a freight train.
I don't have time to do it right now, but I am interested in seeing any research on tren's direct and indirect effects on dopaminergic activity. This would probably be where most of the deprssion/anxiety/aggression/gyno/impotence issues are rooted. How exactly tren induced prolactin increase impacts dopamine would be very interesting to know.
ur talking like tren is a miracle drug for people with depression. if u really wanted to go about this the right way in the name of 'research' and whatever the mumbo jumbo above means, u should have used a tren source from an established ugl so u know exactly how much ur putting in ur body. right now your 'control group' might very well have no tren in it what so ever and everythign your feeling right now is a confidence increase from the placebo effect. You'd be very surprised by how powerful the mind is.
I said no shortness of breath with tren ace
If you read what I said, I was stating that tren may have a very detrimental effect on dopamine leading to depression and the other stuff. I do not know exactly how much tren is in the solution but there is plenty. My piss is getting stranger in its color everyday.
if u want some tips on how to eat better there are ways to get this done. I'm suire I can speak for alot of people on alot when I say we are all fat bastards at heart. through the years we've identified our weaknesses and learned how to avoid succumbing to them. Me, for instance, salty snacks are my ultimate weakness. Peanuts peanut butter nuts in general. chips pretzels i cant stop myself if i start. I honestly dont ever buy them. if they arent in my apt i cant eat them. I also wor out with one of my best friends who pushes me to do that extra rep and drives me to put another plate on the squat rack when honestly i prob wouldnt if I was alone-- u become complacent and stuck in a routine. Setting a goal is great and aas/supps can be a huge trampoline to get over plateaus but it really takes discipline to even reach those plateaus. Change your way of thinking. Drugs are not the answer. Your diet is how u get to where u want to be. And there is always time to change the way u eat.
d_rson
New member
5 Days in, and you're already having to "keep using tighter holes on your belt" and your pants are falling off? 5 Days in and you've already come to all these conclusions about tren?
I think most if not all of what you are feeling is purely psychological.
Umm since things are going so well you might as well run the full 16 weeks of tren. No please don't even try, I am an experienced user of tren and thought I could bump up the dosage and be fine. Well @ week 8 I am done. I just cant take it anylonger, its been great on the body but the mind oh man its making me crazy. And listen to dmessina your tren might not be tren at all. You should just get some fina pellets and make your own so you know dosage and quality is there.
I used the fina pellets.
BTW, I don't think the body or mind could take 16 weeks of tren. I think it is causing some serious insomnia and sleep problems. I am trying to get them under control. As for the body, I'd imagine that 16 weeks of tren would cause such serious gains in strength that other parts of the body (i.e. tendons and ligaments) would be able to keep up.
Otherwise, I am loving my tren experience. Next time I will be a bit more concerned with knowing exactly what the concentration is. This time was to create a pain free, very clean injection to see if I can minimize sides and sample tren at a low dosage.
I am planning on taking 2 weeks off after my short cycle and doing an 8 week test P/tren A/mast/clen/t3 cycle. With the way tren is working with me, I think that stack would be a very nice way to spend my summer simultaneously cutting bf and increasing lean mass. Right now I'm debating whether adding d-bol and winny in weeks 1-4 and 4-8 respectively.
BTW, I don't think the body or mind could take 16 weeks of tren. I think it is causing some serious insomnia and sleep problems. I am trying to get them under control. As for the body, I'd imagine that 16 weeks of tren would cause such serious gains in strength that other parts of the body (i.e. tendons and ligaments) would be able to keep up.
Otherwise, I am loving my tren experience. Next time I will be a bit more concerned with knowing exactly what the concentration is. This time was to create a pain free, very clean injection to see if I can minimize sides and sample tren at a low dosage.
I am planning on taking 2 weeks off after my short cycle and doing an 8 week test P/tren A/mast/clen/t3 cycle. With the way tren is working with me, I think that stack would be a very nice way to spend my summer simultaneously cutting bf and increasing lean mass. Right now I'm debating whether adding d-bol and winny in weeks 1-4 and 4-8 respectively.
thats not exactly a beginner cycle at all. and with the t3 your going to be so hungry that i even find it harder myself to heat perfectly clean especially at work when I have to get lunch at a deli or whatever else is around. TestP/mast/trenA is a great mix though. I have a few bottles of the three blended together (going to be a painful injection ) no need for the winny and u wouldnt really want the dbol at all. Test prop is a fast acting test so the boost u get from dbol wouldnt be necessary at all or desired really...
That being said trenA/mast/prop would be a pretty expensive cycle. going to need about 5-6 bottles of each.
d_rson
New member
For someone who sounds as intelligent as you do, you do not make intelligent decisions. The side-effect-ridden stack above is for someone @ 10% BF trying to get to 6% BF, not someone who is 30-35% BF. The stack above is a WASTE. You need to cut the BF% naturally through diet.
Seems you're another person smitten with the notion that AAS is a magic pill.
this whole thing is rediculous. nobody with any common sense would do these things. obvously the op is much to smart for us wuth his minimal research that he has done. come back after you figure out that you have made a huge mistake and we will help you get it straightened out.
I agree. No point in continuing this thread either. Good luck to the OP.
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