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McCain Introduces a Bill for FDA to Regulate Suppliments

mrplunkey

mrplunkey

New member
Just google it -- there are lots of articles out there.

The older I get, the more convinced I get that we need government's nose out of our lives.

We can put all pharmaceuticals under FDA and suppliments should be unregulated.

Think about how much information travels through social networks like EF's AAS forum. They stay at least 1-2 years ahead of my HRT doc and I use prescription-only AAS.
 
^^^ which, is kinda odd...given the republican party's stance of "less government"


theyre all liars
 
shirlene29 said:
oooooo look at me, I'm a republican
Click to expand...

McCain always falls for these fringe dumb ideas.

I can't get over how we keep making the same mistake over and over. Government intervention almost always makes a mess.

I've got a good idea. For all future government regulation programs, we should flip a coin: Heads means we'll put Howard Dean in charge of it, tails means we'll put Sarah Palin in charge of it. If the need for government is so compelling that we're willing to risk either one of them running it, then it's worthy of government control.
 
isn't it interesting how people all of a sudden become anti govt. once the party that holds the majority of their ideals isn't in power anymore? This goes both ways. 5 years ago it was democrats lamenting the big evil govt. that's going to run our lives while the republicans were giving everyone the finger and saying "deal with it". Now...the coin has flipped hasn't it? Now it's the democrats entertaining "reconciliation" which is what the republicans were trying to do just a few years ago. This is the land of misfits, no one is exempt.
 
are you two gonna start arguing?


because Im bored enuff to watch
 
so like, ummmmm, they'll end up like juicy-juice? cheaper and easier to get now than they ever were when they weren't controlled substances??
 
Someone needs a brick in their window. It may be old school, but the message still gets across.

Whiskey
 
I'm not really sure an un-regulated supplement industry is a great idea either.
 
Dial_tone said:
I'm not really sure an un-regulated supplement industry is a great idea either.
Click to expand...

I'd be interested to see what emerges in the private sector to manage information about suppliments if it were a total free-for-all.

I'm jaded by how efficient the private sector can be. Years ago, I competed in the operating room information systems business. These guys from KLAS became the independent source of reviews for health care software, and they were so good it scared us. They graded OR systems vendors in 18 categories and when we messed something up, it was a matter of days before it spread across the KLAS reports.

We sold FDA regulated devices as well as OR software (essentially unregulated at the time) and it was unreal how KLAS ran circles around FDA. In terms of time scales, one week of KLAS was equivalent to 2-3 years of FDA.
 
redsamurai said:
isn't it interesting how people all of a sudden become anti govt. once the party that holds the majority of their ideals isn't in power anymore? This goes both ways. 5 years ago it was democrats lamenting the big evil govt. that's going to run our lives while the republicans were giving everyone the finger and saying "deal with it". Now...the coin has flipped hasn't it? Now it's the democrats entertaining "reconciliation" which is what the republicans were trying to do just a few years ago. This is the land of misfits, no one is exempt.
Click to expand...

I've always thought there was too much gov't interference, regardless of which party was in power. Both parties are equally as offensive to me.
 
shirlene29 said:
^^^ which, is kinda odd...given the republican party's stance of "less government"


theyre all liars
Click to expand...

I was going to say the samething...lol
Whatever happened to the economy and all the other shit that's a hell of a lot more important than the suplement industry

For all of you republicans out there...keep voting for those idiots folks im sure they have the country at heart not their own damn interests to worry about.....
 
dude, in case any of you haven't figured it out...no politicians, regardless of party give a shit about you and me. They care about themselves and getting re-elected. They will lie to accomplish this and anything else. We are all shit to them. repubs and Dems alike.
 
Varga said:
True, republicans seem to be worse as a whole though
Click to expand...

I thin they're both equally as bad.


I would prefer things on the fiscal side to be run as conservatively as possible though. But shit, that won't happen regardless of who is in control.
 
ceo said:
I thin they're both equally as bad.


I would prefer things on the fiscal side to be run as conservatively as possible though. But shit, that won't happen regardless of who is in control.
Click to expand...

True, there are too many hands in the pot
Im waiting for the news when we are going to invade Iran, i hope it doesnt happen but who knows....
 
I won't take a vitamin or herb if all the ingredients aren't clearly listed, so I don't have a problem with that. What I do have a problem with is if the registration process will involve potential charges to the vitamin manufacturers and so forth. Some very good vitamin companies are small and working with little profit as it is.
 
musclemom said:
I won't take a vitamin or herb if all the ingredients aren't clearly listed, so I don't have a problem with that. What I do have a problem with is if the registration process will involve potential charges to the vitamin manufacturers and so forth. Some very good vitamin companies are small and working with little profit as it is.
Click to expand...

They'll take a PAC-man approach and try to slowly take over the entire market space.

It's funny how all this government is supposed to help us.
 
mrplunkey said:
They'll take a PAC-man approach and try to slowly take over the entire market space.

It's funny how all this government is supposed to help us.
Click to expand...
Vitamins and herbs are way more regulated in Europe (although herbs are also more frequently prescribed in lieu of pharmaceuticals). There's been a big push to get CODEX implemented for years.

The FDA is in the pharmaceutical industry's pocket and vice versa, just like the EPA being in the pockets of various energy corporations. One of the reasons I've basically given up on the whole idea of government, I'm just utterly disgusted with it, is the level of corruption at every level. It makes me sad. I believe some good people go into politics and public work with genuine good intentions, but sooner or later, they have to make concessions that go against their moral compass to get something else and then the slide begins. It's like people who go on about marijuana being a gateway drug. The gateway is that you're doing something illegal to obtain the drug. Once you've crossed that psychological bridge it gets easier to keep going over it.

I think our government is a mess. I think Obama is a smart man with a lot of good intentions but I think he was handed the ultimate shit sandwich. It's like stopping a 1 mile long freight train when it's going at speed, it takes five miles to stop it.

I can't believe I'm saying this but maybe Ron Paul will get the nomination :whatever: If he really will do what he says he'll dismantle a ton of federal bullshit. I know he's anti-abortion, but he feels it should be a state matter so at least he isn't for across the board reversal. I don't think he'll get it though, think of all those federal employees who are riding the government job ticket and will suddenly become unemployed ...
 
The only regulation I want of supplement companies is that they face harsh penalties for not including every nanogram of what they put inside their products on the label. There's things I trust the govt. to run and then there's stuff like this which is clearly a push from the pharmaceutical industry to muscle in on a billion dollar industry. We let this happen and the last source of even mediocre nutrition will be taken away from us and then they completely control the human mind, body and soul. If it came to be that you need a script for vitamins and herbs the pharm oligolopies will immediately price fix and keep it out of the hands of most realistic budgets. But then insurance companies will be forced to cover even more prescriptions which will cause even more instances of coverage denial and everyone will point at the insurance companies as the culprits. But who are "WE" to tell pharmaceutical companies at what price they should sell common vitamins and minerals. "WE" just don't understand corporate margins...:rolleyes:
 
The FDA already regulates quite a few supplements covered in the US Pharmacopeia. BIGPHARMA and many other pharmas companies have consumer healthcare-like divisions, and these are just as regulated as their human and animal health [drugs] divisions.

Broadening the FDA's reach wouldn't be overly difficult, but defining what's what -- they can't cover every herbal extract and placebo-like chemical out there -- is the difficult part. The additional provisions for new and experimental chemical entities necessary for such an act would be impossible to regulate in any near-encompassing form, notwithstanding our legal right to pursue medical care and supplies from outside the country.



:cow:
 
samoth said:
The FDA already regulates quite a few supplements covered in the US Pharmacopeia. BIGPHARMA and many other pharmas companies have consumer healthcare-like divisions, and these are just as regulated as their human and animal health [drugs] divisions.

Broadening the FDA's reach wouldn't be overly difficult, but defining what's what -- they can't cover every herbal extract and placebo-like chemical out there -- is the difficult part. The additional provisions for new and experimental chemical entities necessary for such an act would be impossible to regulate in any near-encompassing form, notwithstanding our legal right to pursue medical care and supplies from outside the country.



:cow:
Click to expand...

The real problem would be supplements being subject to the 510(k) or PMA process. Those are some of the most bizarre, cumbersome and needless processes the government has ever offered.
 
Socialism is coming fast in furious! The feds have their hand in almost everything these days.
My biggest complaint is that their always picking with the wrong people (BB, Athletes, ect) in other words people that want do something good for themselves, and the community.
Regulating Sups is absurd! what they should have done is put regulation on sub-prime loans then we woundn't be in the shape wer'e in economically, because they wanted the less fortunate to have chance to own a home. They can't fuck with the impoverished anymore so they decided their going to mess with the up-right citizens that pay their bills, and like to use Sups to be healthy.
 
mrplunkey said:
Just google it -- there are lots of articles out there.

The older I get, the more convinced I get that we need government's nose out of our lives.

We can put all pharmaceuticals under FDA and suppliments should be unregulated.

Think about how much information travels through social networks like EF's AAS forum. They stay at least 1-2 years ahead of my HRT doc and I use prescription-only AAS.
Click to expand...

I think this is the first time I disagree with you.

I see the point you are making but there are tons of unscrupulous supplement makers out there that package up bullshit. Supplement companies have no oversight. We as consumers have no idea if the label on the container is true. Anyone who has been in the fitness industry for a while knows this. Some supplements companies stick other bogus shit in their supplements stating there is something else. Some of these supplement suppliers are manufacturing the shit in their kitchen or bathroom.

One thing I have realized is that all regulation needs to be balanced. I do not want the FDA to step in and stop all supplements. What I would like is mandatory testing of all supplements to ensure they contain the ingredients advertised. Make sure all supplement manufactures have FDA approved facilities so Joe Blow is not compounding his stuff in a dirty bathroom. Allow the FDA to perform random site inspections, without warrants, to ensure these places are using proper procedures. Also have random spectrometer analysis on supplements to make sure if the there are no hidden ingredients. I know some weight loss products have thrown T3 in them and way back in the day some products had real steroids in them. You all know I believe steroids should be legal but I also believe that people should know with 100% certainty what they are sticking in their body.

The problem with your logic on this one plunkey is that you assume all consumers are as smart as us. I know you and I and many others here do a lot of research before we consume something. 95% of consumers do not.

Also, even though we do our research we have no proof that many of these supplements contain what they advertise. I know there have been reports done on legit companies like NOW that have shown the amounts of the ingredients are not even close to what is advertised on the package.

When people are taking a pill that states there are 30mg of 19-Norandrosta-4,9 diene-3,17 in the pill, and there is no quality control, and there is actually 60mg, and the person is taking 3 pills a day problems can occur. Serious health problems can arise. This is not good.

I also have a problem with companies like Muscletech that advertise their compounds do such and such with no scientific proof. Other supplements do the same thing. I have read plenty of studies on trib and they all show no benefit for test production yet every test product I see that contains trib claims it will increase test. Total BS. Force supplement companies to pool their money and conduct stringent scientific, peer reviewed tests that prove their claims.

Something needs to be done to fix this.

The only problem I see with McCain's bill is that the government will most likely go to far with the regulation. It always does. SARBOX is the perfect example.

The question I ask myself is what is better: People getting screwed or hurt by supplement companies or fewer supplements being on the market.

I haven't looked at McCain's bill so I cannot specifically criticize his plan but I do see a need for some regulation.
 
musclemom said:
Vitamins and herbs are way more regulated in Europe (although herbs are also more frequently prescribed in lieu of pharmaceuticals). There's been a big push to get CODEX implemented for years.

The FDA is in the pharmaceutical industry's pocket and vice versa, just like the EPA being in the pockets of various energy corporations. One of the reasons I've basically given up on the whole idea of government, I'm just utterly disgusted with it, is the level of corruption at every level. It makes me sad. I believe some good people go into politics and public work with genuine good intentions, but sooner or later, they have to make concessions that go against their moral compass to get something else and then the slide begins. It's like people who go on about marijuana being a gateway drug. The gateway is that you're doing something illegal to obtain the drug. Once you've crossed that psychological bridge it gets easier to keep going over it.

I think our government is a mess. I think Obama is a smart man with a lot of good intentions but I think he was handed the ultimate shit sandwich. It's like stopping a 1 mile long freight train when it's going at speed, it takes five miles to stop it.

I can't believe I'm saying this but maybe Ron Paul will get the nomination :whatever: If he really will do what he says he'll dismantle a ton of federal bullshit. I know he's anti-abortion, but he feels it should be a state matter so at least he isn't for across the board reversal. I don't think he'll get it though, think of all those federal employees who are riding the government job ticket and will suddenly become unemployed ...
Click to expand...

You must spread some Karma around (ie give karma to other members too) before giving it to musclemom again.

(except for the Obama part, IMO he is just like the rest of them, if he had good intentions he would be taking a totally different approach to a zillion issues and he has proven he is just one of the old school players up there in DC. I'll leave it at so we can focus on supplements in this thread) :)
 
But let's pretend for a moment that the government could regulate supplements without massively screwing them up. It's a huge leap of faith, but let's go there.

All too often, we look to government to supplant the role of true information exchange. Look at EF -- it isn't just a way to exchange information; it's also a brand. The board has a formal hierarchy (admins->mods->mentors) as well as an informal one (vets, noobs, etc). Now consider this: How much more efficiently is information exchanged on dosing, protocol, brands, etc. etc. as compared to your average health food store? Despite the fact that presumably every product in the store is FDA-approved (as a food product), you still have a vastly higher chance of being sold a load of garbage.

Now don't get me wrong. I'm fine with regulating allowable levels of contaminants (i.e. lead, mercury). I'd even be fine with full disclosure of ingredient lists. But once the government starts picking winners and losers in supplements, it can only hurt the market by good concoctions being held back and by poor concoctions being given an implicit seal of approval.
 
if it weren't for the corporate parasite that infects the govt, I wouldn't have a problem with them regulating an industry for the betterment of consumers. But because our govt. is in the pocket of corporate america I can't trust much that they do. The reason I trust them on issues like healtcare is that corporate america is up in arms about it which means they must be doing something right. And healthcare is a "wee" bit more important than supplements. This move on supplements looks to me like the govt. muscling small herbal companies out of the way so that the guys that pay the campaign contributions can get in on the action. Everything is this country is about "getting in on the action", and that's why we are where we are. :whatever:
 
Army Vet said:
I think this is the first time I disagree with you.

I see the point you are making but there are tons of unscrupulous supplement makers out there that package up bullshit. Supplement companies have no oversight. We as consumers have no idea if the label on the container is true. Anyone who has been in the fitness industry for a while knows this. Some supplements companies stick other bogus shit in their supplements stating there is something else. Some of these supplement suppliers are manufacturing the shit in their kitchen or bathroom.

One thing I have realized is that all regulation needs to be balanced. I do not want the FDA to step in and stop all supplements. What I would like is mandatory testing of all supplements to ensure they contain the ingredients advertised. Make sure all supplement manufactures have FDA approved facilities so Joe Blow is not compounding his stuff in a dirty bathroom. Allow the FDA to perform random site inspections, without warrants, to ensure these places are using proper procedures. Also have random spectrometer analysis on supplements to make sure if the there are no hidden ingredients. I know some weight loss products have thrown T3 in them and way back in the day some products had real steroids in them. You all know I believe steroids should be legal but I also believe that people should know with 100% certainty what they are sticking in their body.

The problem with your logic on this one plunkey is that you assume all consumers are as smart as us. I know you and I and many others here do a lot of research before we consume something. 95% of consumers do not.

Also, even though we do our research we have no proof that many of these supplements contain what they advertise. I know there have been reports done on legit companies like NOW that have shown the amounts of the ingredients are not even close to what is advertised on the package.

When people are taking a pill that states there are 30mg of 19-Norandrosta-4,9 diene-3,17 in the pill, and there is no quality control, and there is actually 60mg, and the person is taking 3 pills a day problems can occur. Serious health problems can arise. This is not good.

I also have a problem with companies like Muscletech that advertise their compounds do such and such with no scientific proof. Other supplements do the same thing. I have read plenty of studies on trib and they all show no benefit for test production yet every test product I see that contains trib claims it will increase test. Total BS. Force supplement companies to pool their money and conduct stringent scientific, peer reviewed tests that prove their claims.

Something needs to be done to fix this.

The only problem I see with McCain's bill is that the government will most likely go to far with the regulation. It always does. SARBOX is the perfect example.

The question I ask myself is what is better: People getting screwed or hurt by supplement companies or fewer supplements being on the market.

I haven't looked at McCain's bill so I cannot specifically criticize his plan but I do see a need for some regulation.
Click to expand...

Supplement companies are subject to FTC regulations for labeling so your concern about listing of ingredients is taken care of... the fact fly by night supplement companies exist just goes to show you how effective federal regulation is at controlling the market. Hell, they couldn't figure out Bernie when multiple people tipped them off and he gave them fake financial statements...they must have been too busy watching porn. :) Should the feds provide a mechanic to inform you about the pros and cons of purchasing a new or used car?

I purchase from companies that provide certificates of analysis from labs I can contact and there is an independent group that provides third party analysis of supplements.
 
Last edited:
javaguru said:
Bob Barr...you assume way too much Plunkles. I was going to vote for Mccain until he chose a retard for VP.
Click to expand...

Bob Barr? How can you so willingly embrace martyrdom without being a person of faith?
 
mrplunkey said:
Bob Barr? How can you so willingly embrace martyrdom without being a person of faith?
Click to expand...

I've done the protest vote since I voted for Bush the elder. We have a two party system, both controlled by special interest, but I'm a letter writer and I have influenced some issues I feel very strongly about....veteran issues. My Rep. Marcy Kaptur, whom I've never voted for, is the longest serving female in the house and is on the armed services committee. I've met her IRL and she knows me by name. :)I'm a good writer and advocate. :)
 
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