Top Ten Creationist Arguments Part 1 and 2

[javaguru]

Yeah, you did a good job refuting that dismal comparison, you should have been a lawyer. According to his philosophy, 2000 yrs from now the Normandy Invasion will be as accurate as the bible is today. That's his persuasion, but I do have to give him a little credit for his last post, he did not plagiarize, that's a first. I can give an accurate account from Desert Storm too, considering I was actually involved, does that mean I can give an accurate account of the Hundred Years War. No... This is all relatively speaking of course.

Nope, the records for WWII will still most likely exist two thousand years from now and but for Constantine Christianity would have died off as just another Jewish cult. In the 1st century you couldn't swing a stick in Jerusalem without hitting the messiah...much like attorneys in the United States.

You can give your limited account of Desert Storm but experiences varied and as we both know the military treats you like a mushroom....they keep you in the dark and feed you shit all day. I would rather read the direct accounts of the top generals and try to sort out their bullshit as opposed to the day to day life of an enlisted man or junior officer. That isn't to say they don't have historical merit on a personal level but that's about it.

An example of how modern technology allows the preservation of historical accounts.

"The Pacific" was partially based on this account by Eugene Sledge and he has passed...


If you want to talk about Desert Storm...73 Easting...FYI for people not familiar with military parlance a Troop is a cavalry term for a company sized element..roughly 100 men; A brigade consists of between 4,000-5,000 soldiers.

 

[AFeedz]

There are two references to jesus outside of the bible, the josephus reference is likely plagiarized from the roman source but even if you accept that as legitimate it doesn't prove the veracity of the stories attributed to jesus. We know Alexander the Great existed because we have coins with his image and numerous sources but the story of the Gordian Knot is almost certainly fabricated. Likewise, mid eastern archaeology used to be called biblical archaeology until they realized the biblical accounts were unverifiable or completely contrary to the evidence.

Only two?

And here I thought you of all people would probably love the Celsus excerpts.

And what about mention of him in Hindu texts from the first few centuries?

 

[cindylou]

lol @ saying likely plagarized. There are more than two btw...that is a popular misconception. There are several references to Jesus outside the bible...but even so by what criteria have you determined it is likely plagarized? Most of your posts (java) recently are completely your opinion, and are total conjecture. You have to get these ideas from new-atheist websites or material because no serious historian or scholar would make that claim. Are you trying to say that you're not even sure Jesus existed as a person? Now, do we need to go step by step on how to overcome the objectives to the objectivity of history? No, probably not because you just apply that philosophy to the gospels and any account of Jesus...do you realize that is hypocrisy?

Is the truth what your peers will let you get away with saying?






also lmfao @ saying what records will likely be around 2000 years from now. Is java a prophet? Did you receive revelation about the future?

 

[ledhead]

There are two references to jesus outside of the bible, the josephus reference is likely plagiarized from the roman source but even if you accept that as legitimate it doesn't prove the veracity of the stories attributed to jesus. We know Alexander the Great existed because we have coins with his image and numerous sources but the story of the Gordian Knot is almost certainly fabricated. Likewise, mid eastern archaeology used to be called biblical archaeology until they realized the biblical accounts were unverifiable or completely contrary to the evidence.

What about the Qu'ran? Islam is the second biggest religion in the world (20%). It accepts Jesus existed, and was born of a virgin.

 

[ledhead]

Nope, the records for WWII will still most likely exist two thousand years from now and but for Constantine Christianity would have died off as just another Jewish cult. In the 1st century you couldn't swing a stick in Jerusalem without hitting the messiah...much like attorneys in the United States.

You can give your limited account of Desert Storm but experiences varied and as we both know the military treats you like a mushroom....they keep you in the dark and feed you shit all day. I would rather read the direct accounts of the top generals and try to sort out their bullshit as opposed to the day to day life of an enlisted man or junior officer. That isn't to say they don't have historical merit on a personal level but that's about it.

An example of how modern technology allows the preservation of historical accounts.

"The Pacific" was partially based on this account by Eugene Sledge and he has passed...


If you want to talk about Desert Storm...73 Easting...FYI for people not familiar with military parlance a Troop is a cavalry term for a company sized element..roughly 100 men; A brigade consists of between 4,000-5,000 soldiers.

No, you can't say that the records from WWII will still exist in accurate form. Just like the bible, those documents will go through too many hands by then and will be altered to what people want them to say, right?

Well, what's that tell you if you could not swing a stick without hitting the messiah? I would say he was pretty popular, woudn't you? It appears, he is pretty popular today because we have people that are obsessed with talking about how he didn't exist. He is the most debated person in history, can't refute that if you tried.

No, I rather gather all the stories from the people that fought the battles rather than a bunch of pen pushers that were on the side lines giving orders. Who would have more accurate details of the fighting? The soldiers that seen it, and fought the battles or some brass in the rear with the gear? Heck, they did not even come up with a game plan for us in DS, my Colonial did, and he was right there mixing it up with us.

Nice video by-the-way, I did enjoy it.

 

[javaguru]

What about the Qu'ran? Islam is the second biggest religion in the world (20%). It accepts Jesus existed, and was born of a virgin.

Belief and popularity are not proof of anything...quotations from chairman Mao is the second best selling book of all time and Candle in the Wind by Elton John is the best selling single of all time....What's your point? When Islam becomes the largest religion in the world will you convert?

 

[javaguru]

No, you can't say that the records from WWII will still exist in accurate form. Just like the bible, those documents will go through too many hands by then and will be altered to what people want them to say, right?

Well, what's that tell you if you could not swing a stick without hitting the messiah? I would say he was pretty popular, woudn't you? It appears, he is pretty popular today because we have people that are obsessed with talking about how he didn't exist. He is the most debated person in history, can't refute that if you tried.

No, I rather gather all the stories from the people that fought the battles rather than a bunch of pen pushers that were on the side lines giving orders. Who would have more accurate details of the fighting? The soldiers that seen it, and fought the battles or some brass in the rear with the gear? Heck, they did not even come up with a game plan for us in DS, my Colonial did, and he was right there mixing it up with us.

Nice video by-the-way, I did enjoy it.

They exist as they were finalized at the time. Even the most fervent christian biblical scholars admit the bible was put to pen from 20 -50 years after the events they describe. There is a reason AAR's are conducted as soon as possible and paperwork required to be filed.

My mother has my father's separation papers from the Navy in 1948, it would be a dd 214 to you and I, and it hasn't been altered since 1948 and probably exists in triplicate within the federal bureaucracy; I can look at the document and with certainty believe he was awarded two purple hearts as a corpsman serving in the Tarawa and Iwo Jima campaigns.

The Bible was translated by hand for centuries and different scribes made notes in the margins that were incorporated by later scribes as original text, they're called interpolations. There are no original manuscripts for the bible, the best you have are hand written copies of copies.

 

[javaguru]

Only two?

And here I thought you of all people would probably love the Celsus excerpts.

And what about mention of him in Hindu texts from the first few centuries?

Last I checked there were Jews and Romans making the records in Jerusalem...Indians weren't power players. People looking at "prophecy" are just trying to confirm their bias. How do you explain a lack of historical record for the resurrection of Jesus based on biblical accounts? The Bible is quite clear that not only did Jesus arise from the dead but EVERY dead person in Jerusalem rose from the dead and walked around greeting their friends and family...I'm pretty sure someone would have written down the fact every dead person in Jerusalem rose from the dead with Jesus and walked around greeting their family members.

 

[javaguru]

lol @ saying likely plagarized. There are more than two btw...that is a popular misconception. There are several references to Jesus outside the bible...but even so by what criteria have you determined it is likely plagarized? Most of your posts (java) recently are completely your opinion, and are total conjecture. You have to get these ideas from new-atheist websites or material because no serious historian or scholar would make that claim. Are you trying to say that you're not even sure Jesus existed as a person? Now, do we need to go step by step on how to overcome the objectives to the objectivity of history? No, probably not because you just apply that philosophy to the gospels and any account of Jesus...do you realize that is hypocrisy?

Is the truth what your peers will let you get away with saying?






also lmfao @ saying what records will likely be around 2000 years from now. Is java a prophet? Did you receive revelation about the future?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to conclude that when two accounts are almost verbatim someone was plagiarized, especially when it's such a limited statement. You need to lay off the Glenn Beck Koolaid that laymen who read a few books and study the Bible in their spare time are more informed than people who do it for a living; Cindy is short on evidence and long on hot air...much like Glenn and Bill...

As far as records are concerned...I can access records from the American Civil War via my computer over the internet so it's perfectly rational to assume public records will continue to transition to new formats as technology develops.

 

[cindylou]

You need to lay off the Glenn Beck Koolaid that laymen who read a few books and study the Bible in their spare time are more informed than people who do it for a living; Cindy is short on evidence and long on hot air...much like Glenn and Bill...

You only want to apply skepticism to the foundations of the Christian faith. The community of professional historians accept that Jesus did exist. You know it. I know it. Java is long on hot air and short on the truth.

I don't know why are trying to troll me by bringing up Glenn Beck. You know that was just a shtick just for you. I have no idea what you're talking about.

but lmfao @ trying to discredit me by using television programs that you suggested we watch together I probably deserved it because I was being a little snide but even so, I guess that means that this thread is over because you're done if you have to start doing stuff like that.