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Who on here still uses nolva for PCT?

do you still use nolva for PCT?

  • Yes and I love it!

    Votes: 41 45.6%

  • yes and I feel like shit on it but my friend told me to use it so I still do

    Votes: 8 8.9%

  • NO never have used it

    Votes: 28 31.1%

  • NO but i have used it before and felt like shit

    Votes: 13 14.4%
  • Total voters
    90
stevesmi

stevesmi

Head Mod
Elite Moderator
this isn't a thread to flame people or get on a high horse or whatever. but I'm seriously curious who still uses nolva and how you react to it or if you realize that feeling the way you do on it is just normal part of PCT so lets just deal with it and not try to find something that works better

only reason i bring this up is a lot of new guys who have posted their cycles on here lately keep mentioning they want to use nolva for PCT. or they give the standard clomid 100/100/50/50 nolva 20/20/20/20 PCT which to me is a limp dick waiting to happen.

for me i used nolva too before i found EF, and that was the only time in my AAS cycling life I actually had libido problems. since i found EF and stopped using it my PCT's are much more smooth and i feel good.

so lets hear from some of you who still use it and those that used to use it and no longer do. and to the newbs who are new here lets hear your reason for wanting to use nolva or who recommended to do that. don't be scared to post up!!

this thread is gonna be a good reference study but we need to hear from YOU
 
used it in the past and hated it. made me actually use NOTHING for pct and i prefer nothing over nolva.
 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
In what way does it make u feel like crap? I always have it on hand but as a PCT I don't think it's satisfactory on it's own.
 
First cycle I didn't pct only was test 250mg wk. I was good. I used nolva once on 2nd Cycle and that shit made me break out. Whats EF?
 
no energy, no libido, felt sluggish.. but the biggest thing is that it didnt help MY recovery.
 
Never used it, used clomid and never have had any of the associated sides.. Friend uses it and says he always feels an increase in sex drive, and it help him recover, he swears by it... Never feels depressed, but does get moody on it...
 
used it a few times in the past and recovered fairly well , used clomid and felt like a little girl on it
 
I currently had gyno surgery, and a week after the surgery i started getting the knots and sensitivity back. Doc prescribed me some nolva to help combat this and it mad my gyno flare up more and my back, arms, and shoulders broke out like a mofo. I never ran it for pct but this makes me not want to start.
 
the problem is clomid is run in too high a doses. 12mg a day is all you need. check the half life on it and see why running 100mg a day is stupid. i've heard of guys running it 200 or 300 a day too. its a drug with side effects, keep the dosages LOW.

nolva is just a useless drug.. what does nolva do better than anything else out there? there are better things for gyno, better things to use as an AI, no nolva does not stimulate test production we can say that right off the bat. it drops estrogen which allows the body to bounce back easier, but it doesn't do anything more than that. and you can drop estrogen with better things.
 
okay everyone who has spoken up has said nolva is shit, so why are new guys coming on here saying nolva is what they choose for PCT ? seriously every new thread from a new guy on here they list their PCT as clomid and nolva.

lets hear from you new guys. or if you are a nolva lover lets hear from you. this is gonna be a civil nolva discussion and debate. i will see to it that it is so i want to hear BOTH SIDES OF THE DEBATE. I've stated my opinion already so i want to hear the other side of the coin now
 
As a new user to AAS I was used to seeing mods and vets on other forums (AM, PHF, Isteroid) talking about how it's the standard tried and true PCT. New users like myself are very susceptible to believing anything a jacked up dude says since he obvious knows what works for him. Personally I was skeptical of ntbm's PCT which seems to be heavily pushed on this forum because of the obvious bias. I am a firm believer of making a decision based off of personal experience, so eventually I will find myself using his products to see for myself what the results are. I have used nolva and clomid in PCT before and have noticed the depression and acne. I feel that it's difficult to pinpoint that on the nolva and clomid though since my hormones are so out of whack during that portion of the cycle anyways.
 
I used Nolva as PCT for my first 6 week cycle of test prop 500mg.
There were mo sides from nolva and i recovered alright.

I never used it since though as i use unleashes/postcycle/forma combo now and add osta and this time around i also added GW sarms.
No better PCT for me
 
A Soft Koala said:
As a new user to AAS I was used to seeing mods and vets on other forums (AM, PHF, Isteroid) talking about how it's the standard tried and true PCT. New users like myself are very susceptible to believing anything a jacked up dude says since he obvious knows what works for him. Personally I was skeptical of ntbm's PCT which seems to be heavily pushed on this forum because of the obvious bias. I am a firm believer of making a decision based off of personal experience, so eventually I will find myself using his products to see for myself what the results are. I have used nolva and clomid in PCT before and have noticed the depression and acne. I feel that it's difficult to pinpoint that on the nolva and clomid though since my hormones are so out of whack during that portion of the cycle anyways.
Click to expand...

I experienced more side effects from nolva than I did with sust and dbol..


Sent from my HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e using EliteFitness
 
A Soft Koala said:
As a new user to AAS I was used to seeing mods and vets on other forums (AM, PHF, Isteroid) talking about how it's the standard tried and true PCT. New users like myself are very susceptible to believing anything a jacked up dude says since he obvious knows what works for him. Personally I was skeptical of ntbm's PCT which seems to be heavily pushed on this forum because of the obvious bias. I am a firm believer of making a decision based off of personal experience, so eventually I will find myself using his products to see for myself what the results are. I have used nolva and clomid in PCT before and have noticed the depression and acne. I feel that it's difficult to pinpoint that on the nolva and clomid though since my hormones are so out of whack during that portion of the cycle anyways.
Click to expand...

buy hcgenerate and try it and you will be a believer in NTBM products. your nuts will plump up on cycle and you will recover faster..
 
Nolvadex is a bona-fide carcinogen in all species. It is liver toxic. Makes me feel like crap 24x7. I won't go near it.

Clomid and herbal PCT works well for me. I want to try HCGenerate next time around but I will not give up my clomid. It works too well for me. I think some dose it way too high.














-db-
 
I've used Nolva during my first cycle which I've just done last pin of. I found it did more for gyno in my case than letro did. I'll be using it for PCT as well. I'd love to try forma stanzol however the shipping policy from the company that sells it means uk guys pay for the product, shipping plus insane customs charges which makes it prohibitively expensive for most of us. I will be trying NTBM's products asap would like to add HCGenerate to this PCT if possible maybe followed by bridge. I haven't seen their other PCT products available locally online. Knowledge of PCT isn't great at the gym and nolva clomid and HCG are as good as it gets for those who bother with PCT at all. Recovery is very important to me as I'm sure it is to most others, as a soft koala said there is an obvious bias here, some posts seem more marketing oriented than anything else which causes some skepticism, that being said I'm willing to try the products (at least those from NTBM which are practically available) and will make up my own mind from there.
 
I forgot to post I will also be using Clomid as part of my PCT, because I have it and because one time I took a single tablet two days in a row, a few days later my balls swole up like a pair of apples and I shot a load that night that was AT LEAST ten times the volume I ever have before. I don't know how effective it will be as PCT, but I should have some fun finding out lol!
 
A Soft Koala said:
Yeah I'm trying to put the funds together for 2-3 bottles of gear.
Click to expand...

I have a bottle of BRIDGE setting here. I am going post a log for a cycle of:
BRIDGE
MK-2866
S-4

All sitting here...a beautiful thing! Starting in May. Should be awesum.





-db-
 
I think most ppl use it for their first cycle because when you're doing research for that first cycle you read as many different articles from as many different places as possible. Most of the Internet reccomends using nolva although the majority of Ef doesn't. I read hundreds of articles before first cycle and the majority told me to use nolva which I did and felt like shit.
In Australia, nolva is by far the most widely available pct drug available. But after the first use of nolva I decided to try low dose clomid based on your opinion Steve and I felt 100 times better.
Also, as for Australia, our supplement industry is terrible. Anything that works gets banned. In America you have pro hormones on the shelf. In Australia oxy elite as well as several other fat burners and t boosters are banned in pill form. Our customs is very very tight being an island nation, so it's hit or miss whether prescription stuff makes it through. But again because nolva is so widely available, and because there's so much info out there about it being used the last 50yrs or so, most ppl don't bother searching for a better pct.
 
I've never tired clomid but I will be trying it next cycle. I also feel like every forum is bias. As soon as I asked about my cycle and pct. I got forma-stanzol as a answer. I am to skeptical because clomid/nolva is a universal thing when it come to pct. So thats why I leaned towards clomid/nolva. Im thinking about trying forma but as I said im skeptical.
 
xBoxerX said:
I've never tired clomid but I will be trying it next cycle. I also feel like every forum is bias. As soon as I asked about my cycle and pct. I got forma-stanzol as a answer. I am to skeptical because clomid/nolva is a universal thing when it come to pct. So thats why I leaned towards clomid/nolva. Im thinking about trying forma but as I said im skeptical.
Click to expand...

re-read my earlier posts in this thread then come back and give me an answer as to WHAT nolva does better than other things out there. the only thing nolva does well is its an AI, but there are better things out there with way less sides that you can use as an AI. and yes forma is one of them. do research on formestane and its history as an AI,.

i'm beginning to suspect based on what you wrote the reason newbs use nolva/clomid PCT's is cause of ignorance in what they are doing and just internet parroting. if you actually research what the substance is and the benefits of it you won't want to run it. don't forget what its used for, treating post breast cancer females for 5 years straight and if you talk to the females on it they complain about a host of sides. its a shitty drug all around and there are better things out there thats the bottom line. worst of all its a dick killer which is NOT what you want during a PCT. you want your pct to be smooth and fast. not to feel like shit and dickless.

but i appreciate your response as it gives me some insight as to what newbs are thinking, it seems like you are going by what other guys are parroting that its a 'universal thing' and not doing your own research on the matter. the funny thing though is that those guys you are listening to probably don't even cycle.. they are either on HRT or they just blast and cruise or they come off for 2 weeks and go back on (which isn't even coming off since it takes more than a month for most esters to fully clear the body). talk to actual people who cycle legitimately which doesn't seem to be very many these days, everyone is on 9 months out of the year minimum.
 
stevesmi said:
re-read my earlier posts in this thread then come back and give me an answer as to WHAT nolva does better than other things out there. the only thing nolva does well is its an AI, but there are better things out there with way less sides that you can use as an AI. and yes forma is one of them. do research on formestane and its history as an AI,.

i'm beginning to suspect based on what you wrote the reason newbs use nolva/clomid PCT's is cause of ignorance in what they are doing and just internet parroting. if you actually research what the substance is and the benefits of it you won't want to run it. don't forget what its used for, treating post breast cancer females for 5 years straight and if you talk to the females on it they complain about a host of sides. its a shitty drug all around and there are better things out there thats the bottom line. worst of all its a dick killer which is NOT what you want during a PCT. you want your pct to be smooth and fast. not to feel like shit and dickless.

but i appreciate your response as it gives me some insight as to what newbs are thinking, it seems like you are going by what other guys are parroting that its a 'universal thing' and not doing your own research on the matter. the funny thing though is that those guys you are listening to probably don't even cycle.. they are either on HRT or they just blast and cruise or they come off for 2 weeks and go back on (which isn't even coming off since it takes more than a month for most esters to fully clear the body). talk to actual people who cycle legitimately which doesn't seem to be very many these days, everyone is on 9 months out of the year minimum.
Click to expand...

Agree. That's why im here to learn more about whats better and help other too.

I was gonna start that cycle I discussed with u but since decided to wait till I become more education on the subject.
 
Nolva never made me feel anything, but clomid made me tear up when watching "Love Actually" back in 2004 (no joke).
 
used clomid and nolva for pct on me 1st cycle,, felt like shit mann,, no energy or drive to train appetite dissapeared gains dissapeared super crashed hard,,,,
whats best for PCT to keep as much gains as possible ????
 
Both Nolva nd clomid make me feel like crap, dick goes on holiday and like someone else said, i get more emotional about things, be it sad or angry.

I use, Nolva, Clomid and HCG. I find that the recovery is stronger with this combo. If someone can recommend something else, I'm all ears?...

Also, Nolva gives me acne. I can be on cycle, with no acne. Then get itchy nips, add nolva...and bang acne everywhere.
 
tamoxifen is an estrogen receptor antagonist. By doing this it
down-regulates the androgen receptor. This can cause the side effects I am hearing
of depression, loss of sex drive..etc.
 
I do have an interest in a company that has a patent on it for use in bipolar patients....but will never touch the stuff again--science has moved on.
 
They say Torem is the new age Nolva, I used it for the first time for my PCT and it worked really well.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness
 
A Soft Koala said:
As a new user to AAS I was used to seeing mods and vets on other forums (AM, PHF, Isteroid) talking about how it's the standard tried and true PCT. New users like myself are very susceptible to believing anything a jacked up dude says since he obvious knows what works for him. Personally I was skeptical of ntbm's PCT which seems to be heavily pushed on this forum because of the obvious bias. I am a firm believer of making a decision based off of personal experience, so eventually I will find myself using his products to see for myself what the results are. I have used nolva and clomid in PCT before and have noticed the depression and acne. I feel that it's difficult to pinpoint that on the nolva and clomid though since my hormones are so out of whack during that portion of the cycle anyways.
Click to expand...

This. nolvadex and clomid are the first things a noob to aas reads when they first learn about PCT, the new
guys instantly assume its the PCT "standard."

never done either, but when I first started reading into aas I thought I was set with a nolva and clomid PCT.

Without EF I would have never realized the true importance of PCT.
 
Potent said:
This. nolvadex and clomid are the first things a noob to aas reads when they first learn about PCT, the new
guys instantly assume its the PCT "standard."

never done either, but when I first started reading into aas I thought I was set with a nolva and clomid PCT.

Without EF I would have never realized the true importance of PCT.
Click to expand...

Whats EF!?
 
stevesmi said:
this isn't a thread to flame people or get on a high horse or whatever. but I'm seriously curious who still uses nolva and how you react to it or if you realize that feeling the way you do on it is just normal part of PCT so lets just deal with it and not try to find something that works better

only reason i bring this up is a lot of new guys who have posted their cycles on here lately keep mentioning they want to use nolva for PCT. or they give the standard clomid 100/100/50/50 nolva 20/20/20/20 PCT which to me is a limp dick waiting to happen.

for me i used nolva too before i found EF, and that was the only time in my AAS cycling life I actually had libido problems. since i found EF and stopped using it my PCT's are much more smooth and i feel good.

so lets hear from some of you who still use it and those that used to use it and no longer do. and to the newbs who are new here lets hear your reason for wanting to use nolva or who recommended to do that. don't be scared to post up!!

this thread is gonna be a good reference study but we need to hear from YOU
Click to expand...

Just complete crap to me. Have used it of course this was our pct unleashed back in the day really had nothing esle that was popular u couldnt get a hold of stuff like you could now. Forma was out years ago but never got credit today that stuff is amazing! The sources that we have now and littiture on product is thru the roof now. Privite testing can be done researching u dont have to be a grad in med. Just the list goes on....

We control this now and the doctors and fda are f n lost they dont know shit if I told everyone that vit c is more likely to cause defects than aas ppl would shit their pants!

Well get your toilet paper ready cause its gotten shitty.
 
doublebicep said:
Nolvadex is a bona-fide carcinogen in all species. It is liver toxic. Makes me feel like crap 24x7. I won't go near it.

Clomid and herbal PCT works well for me. I want to try HCGenerate next time around but I will not give up my clomid. It works too well for me. I think some dose it way too high.













-db-
Click to expand...



Yea that is very true. I will try HCGen + clomid on my next PCT.
 
stevesmi said:
okay everyone who has spoken up has said nolva is shit, so why are new guys coming on here saying nolva is what they choose for PCT ? seriously every new thread from a new guy on here they list their PCT as clomid and nolva.

lets hear from you new guys. or if you are a nolva lover lets hear from you. this is gonna be a civil nolva discussion and debate. i will see to it that it is so i want to hear BOTH SIDES OF THE DEBATE. I've stated my opinion already so i want to hear the other side of the coin now
Click to expand...

Thing is mate its always been used esp novice users fr example beginners who start a dbol only cycle for 4 weeks. I knw theres other things out there bt this has always been the standard. Well in the uk anyway

Sent from my HTC Wildfire using EliteFitness
 
JBshred said:
I think most ppl use it for their first cycle because when you're doing research for that first cycle you read as many different articles from as many different places as possible. Most of the Internet reccomends using nolva although the majority of Ef doesn't. I read hundreds of articles before first cycle and the majority told me to use nolva which I did and felt like shit.
In Australia, nolva is by far the most widely available pct drug available. But after the first use of nolva I decided to try low dose clomid based on your opinion Steve and I felt 100 times better.
Also, as for Australia, our supplement industry is terrible. Anything that works gets banned. In America you have pro hormones on the shelf. In Australia oxy elite as well as several other fat burners and t boosters are banned in pill form. Our customs is very very tight being an island nation, so it's hit or miss whether prescription stuff makes it through. But again because nolva is so widely available, and because there's so much info out there about it being used the last 50yrs or so, most ppl don't bother searching for a better pct.
Click to expand...

That is same for me 2
 
I am currently on my first cycle, and my plan was to use nolva only for PCT. Beavuse thats what everyone told med to do, and thats the best and most common PCT. After reading alot on this forum ive decided to throw them away. I have now bought unleashed/post cycle, HCgenereate, forma stanzol and planning to get som clomid (small doze) I find it very logical that nolva alone for PCT, wil not be a good recovery, and i have shown my friends and others the products i have bought, but they just laugh at me :) If i keep my dick up, and dont get a complete shutdown, i bet i am the one laughing :) :)
 
I used nolva only for pct on my first cycle, recovered fine with blood tests to prove it.

I don't understand all the science and the more I try to the more confused I get. I've since added more stuff to my pct and it's getting better each time but I still use nolva because EVERYONE I talk to seems to think I need it.

What I find hard to believe is that 98% of the Internet is wrong, and the 2% at EF are right (not exact percentages lol). When we add all the juice heads not on the net the difference gets bigger again.
 
I use the standard clomid, nolva pct. Bit of trib thrown in aswell.
I don't get any sides from either and recover fine.
I've been on 14 weeks now and have my last shot of test on Tuesday. 3 weeks to let the ester clear and then the pct above.
I'm very gyno prone so after stopping the adex I like the nolva in case of estro rebound.
 
Nolva controls gyno for me where most other products fall down. I'm happy to have and use it. If something else becomes available I'll try that but in the meantime for me Nolva has a place.
 
Typo said:
What I find hard to believe is that 98% of the Internet is wrong, and the 2% at EF are right (not exact percentages lol). When we add all the juice heads not on the net the difference gets bigger again.
Click to expand...

thats because 98% of the internet doesn't cycle. they stay on almost year round. so they come off wait a couple weeks and jump back on.. they were never off to begin with, it takes more than 2 weeks for esters to leave the body.

nolva is ONLY good for lowering your estrogen. show me proof that it does anything else worthwhile for pct, would love to see it. sounds to me like your reason for using it is more internet parrotting.

i don't understand the reasoning either for running an AI for pct when you should of been on the whole way through to begin with. its more lazy internet parroting is what it is. lets bloat up like pigs our entire cycle and then when we pct lets decide to get that estrogen knocked down is the way its done by 98% of guys. this strategy takes longer to recover
 
11 votes for nolva. and 0 reasons brought forward to why nolva is good for pct. come on guys lets hear it! you can't vote and then run away! i'm gonna reveal the 11 that voted nolva anyway so might as well come forward now with your reasoning! (just kidding!!)
 
Last edited:
I used Nolva for my first PCT because of what I was recommended. I "thought" it went well, but my other PCTs I used Clomid and my recovery was much better and I kept a much larger portion of the gains. Balls got to normal size a lot quicker and sex drive went up quick. Clomid for me each and every time ;)
 
if I'm doin test alone. I'll use nolva only pct. weirdest thing is I only get the lazy feeling when using liquid nolva. I prefer tabs. are there better things out there? of course! nolva/clomid is like hcg. what works for some, won't work for others. you have to tweak your dose and figure things out.

if I'm stacking. I'll RARELY use it for pct.
 
Steve what if I bought nolvadex. Already could I still use it and recover ok from first test cycle ??? Surely I would righ others use it all the time in not looking to start any thing here just I already wasted my money on the shit so it needs using lol is it ok better than nothing I mean
 
Nolva for a PCt was always nothing but a theory -- started by Dan Duchaine, who admitted later in life that it didn't really recover HPTA. But the myth got parrotted and created a generation of ignorance. Slowly, people are becoming more aware though.
 
OK Steve, you promised you wouldnt flame so lets discuss this. There are several reasons, in my opinion, to use Nolva.

1) This is a drug that has been tested and tested by the FDA and has decades of not only clinical trials with research data to support it but also hundreds of thousands of patients that have used it for years for its real purpose (brest cancer) so we at least know the drug is safe and effective.

2)I will give you 2 different REAL medical studies with control patients and also blood wok that supports the fact than not only does Nolva block E it also raises your Test levels
"Stimulation of calcitonin secretory capacity by increased serum levels of testosterone in men treated with tamoxifen. Int J Androl. 1987 Dec;10(6):747-51"
"Hormonal changes in tamoxifen treated men with idiopathic oligozoospermia Exp Clin Endocrinol. 1988 Dec;92(2):211-6"

those studies come to the realization that..."In hypogonadic and infertile men given nolvadex, increases in the serum levels of LH, FSH, and most importantly, testosterone were all observed"

Now I am a big fan of Nathan and have talked business with him on a few occasions. His N2 line is great and I personally use HCGenerate while on cycle to not shut down as much and to help ease PCT.
I believe that everyone is different and of course different chemicals and compounds can effect us all differently. In this post you call Nolva crap when it has true clinical trial from real medical facilities to back it up. You mention Parroting yet repeating something that has worked for AAS users all over the world for years well....
Much Love to all my Bros
 
Just finished 8 week tesp p 100mg and mast p 100 mg eod followed by a month on clomid and nolva.
I felt amazing when I was on the test and had little to no sides (bit of bacne) then started pct and fuck me it has been horrible.
My sex drive is non existent I am stroppy as fuck and down a lot of the time. Oh and my bacne is really bad, 10 times worse than on cycle.
The only positive is that my balls came back quick and my strength and hunger to train has stayed ; )
Don't think I will be using for my next pct. may try low level clomid and look into he generate etc.
 
lander2312 said:
OK Steve, you promised you wouldnt flame so lets discuss this. There are several reasons, in my opinion, to use Nolva.

1) This is a drug that has been tested and tested by the FDA and has decades of not only clinical trials with research data to support it but also hundreds of thousands of patients that have used it for years for its real purpose (brest cancer) so we at least know the drug is safe and effective.

2)I will give you 2 different REAL medical studies with control patients and also blood wok that supports the fact than not only does Nolva block E it also raises your Test levels
"Stimulation of calcitonin secretory capacity by increased serum levels of testosterone in men treated with tamoxifen. Int J Androl. 1987 Dec;10(6):747-51"
"Hormonal changes in tamoxifen treated men with idiopathic oligozoospermia Exp Clin Endocrinol. 1988 Dec;92(2):211-6"

those studies come to the realization that..."In hypogonadic and infertile men given nolvadex, increases in the serum levels of LH, FSH, and most importantly, testosterone were all observed"

Now I am a big fan of Nathan and have talked business with him on a few occasions. His N2 line is great and I personally use HCGenerate while on cycle to not shut down as much and to help ease PCT.
I believe that everyone is different and of course different chemicals and compounds can effect us all differently. In this post you call Nolva crap when it has true clinical trial from real medical facilities to back it up. You mention Parroting yet repeating something that has worked for AAS users all over the world for years well....
Much Love to all my Bros
Click to expand...

good post, atleast you have the balls to state your position.

however your first point about it being safe and effective is iffy. just ask a breast cancer survivor. i know one on 5mg of the stuff a day and she absolutely hates it.. she got put on the stuff for 5 years. and a year into it they find out she has liver damage from it (she doesn't even drink or take any other drug) also she feels like absolute shit on it. i begged her to ask the doctor for something else but you are right, this is the drug docs give out.. but if you read online you will see it has bad sides all around for men and women so her case isn't isolated.

your point 2 i don't disagree with that its an AI. i have said this on this thread several times that it is a good AI. however my point is that there are better AI's out there that have way less side effects. if anything nolva is too strong an AI and you definately do not want to destroy your estrogen, we know this today as bodybuilders that we need estrogen to build muscle. a breast cancer survivor doesn't
 
EssexMike said:
Just finished 8 week tesp p 100mg and mast p 100 mg eod followed by a month on clomid and nolva.
I felt amazing when I was on the test and had little to no sides (bit of bacne) then started pct and fuck me it has been horrible.
My sex drive is non existent I am stroppy as fuck and down a lot of the time. Oh and my bacne is really bad, 10 times worse than on cycle.
The only positive is that my balls came back quick and my strength and hunger to train has stayed ; )
Don't think I will be using for my next pct. may try low level clomid and look into he generate etc.
Click to expand...

yup and that is why I have evolved into a holistic pct instead. i still take a very low dose of clomid but to be honest i want to phase that out too. it does take my libido down a notch even at low levels.

if you feel like shit on pct you will muscle waste so fast cause you won't want to workout and you will feel blah the whole time.

i get acne from clomid too, pretty common.. thankfully i am not prone to acne or else it would be far worse
 
Steve, nolva isnt perfect but of course no drug is. I have been considering running the holistic pct one time to see if it works but I am hesitant for 2 reasons. One I know that Nolva works...you forgot to address how it is proven to raise natural test levels and to get your boys back to functioning. I also forgot to point out how it actually improves your lipid profile, so if you use an oral, it could be a better choice than clomid. The 2nd reason is price which goes back to issue numer one. I hate to work soo hard on diet, training, and gear only to not get my PCT right and lose half or more of my gains.
 
lander2312 said:
OK Steve, you promised you wouldnt flame so lets discuss this. There are several reasons, in my opinion, to use Nolva.

1) This is a drug that has been tested and tested by the FDA and has decades of not only clinical trials with research data to support it but also hundreds of thousands of patients that have used it for years for its real purpose (brest cancer) so we at least know the drug is safe and effective.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Yes, for breast cancer, not PCT.


......................

2)I will give you 2 different REAL medical studies with control patients and also blood wok that supports the fact than not only does Nolva block E it also raises your Test levels
"Stimulation of calcitonin secretory capacity by increased serum levels of testosterone in men treated with tamoxifen. Int J Androl. 1987 Dec;10(6):747-51"
"Hormonal changes in tamoxifen treated men with idiopathic oligozoospermia Exp Clin Endocrinol. 1988 Dec;92(2):211-6"

...................

Flawed study on many levels. No time now to explain (even though I've done so on dozens of other occasions. Maybe later.


...............

those studies come to the realization that..."In hypogonadic and infertile men given nolvadex, increases in the serum levels of LH, FSH, and most importantly, testosterone were all observed"

..........


That is not correct.


............

Now I am a big fan of Nathan and have talked business with him on a few occasions. His N2 line is great and I personally use HCGenerate while on cycle to not shut down as much and to help ease PCT.
I believe that everyone is different and of course different chemicals and compounds can effect us all differently. In this post you call Nolva crap when it has true clinical trial from real medical facilities to back it up.

...........................

It's crap because it makes you feel like crap at a time when you need to feel better.




You mention Parroting yet repeating something that has worked for AAS users all over the world for years well....

.............

Actually, it hasn't. They just want to convince themselevs it has. Show me the before and after blood tests of steroid users after taking nolvadex. Even if they do get a boost in T, it doesn;t last, and then you;re right back to being where you were after the cycle.

Much Love to all my Bros
Click to expand...


..............
 
First of all let me say Nelson I respect your opinion and you have more knowledge of this game than I do but I would like to address some of the things you replied with here.

To number one...yes the tests were for breast cancer but the safety of the drug and its interaction with humans has way more track years and studies than any root or berry herbal pct designer product and thats just a fact. The majority of drugs talked about on this forum are being used for purposes other than the original intent. So with that said yes it does have a safe track record.

For number 2&3 I doubt you posses the education or clinical medical trial expertise to make the claim of a flawed study. The people who did that study werent even hoping for an increase in natural testosterone production. The y just noted that it was a side effect of the Nolva. You say its not correct but the case studies that i printed say that.

Number 4 It does make some people feel like crap while it has helped countless others. Like I stated before we all react differently to each compound. Lots of people get test flu...does that mean that Testosterone is crap?....I believe your logic flawed on this one.

Once again this is not to start a war...Steve said that it was to be a civil discussion and I def dont want to go to bant camp for not only expressing my opinion but also supporting it with case study not just internet parroting.
 
Last edited:
^^^ i think its a great discussion and by all means discuss away.

i will say this though and its food for thought. if your estrogen levels are high going into PCT and you run nolva and it cripples your estrogen levels then yes it makes sense that will lower estrogen it will allow your bodies testosterone levels to bounce. my point is there are better ways to do this without running something like nolva.

my way of running things is going into PCT will normal levels of estrogen cause you ran an AI during cycle. and kickstarting your HPTA with hcgenerate and/or hcg/HMG. i have found this to be far superior than going into pct with raisin nuts and high estrogen levels and running nolva or clomid. my recovery has been 3-4X faster with this method rather then the run a cycle then do nolva/clomid pct. so its more than just PCT that is important.. if you look at my tren log from last year i ran a full hormone panel and posted it up you can look it up from after PCT. i only used a very small dose of clomid with my pct to accomplish this. something like 12mg EOD.
 
Its good for restarting the hypothalamus-pituitary axis, but is slightly liver toxic and does stop satellite cell recruitment. source= skip down half way http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2012/01/intermittent-thoughts-on-building_15.html

I'm thinking nolva stops hyperplasia by liver circulating igf-1. I use it to restart, but I only run it for 3 days at 40/40/40mg. Its half life is fairly long, 14 days according to this thread, so you don't want to stop your satellite cells for too long http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/p...herapy/nolvadex-half-life-14-days-585799.html
 
Yeah I dont run the standard either...i run 20/5days then 10/5days...alll the while taking a natty test booster, HCGenrate being what I found to work best.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using EliteFitness
 
My first cycle I used nolva only and i felt i recovered fine. Second cycle I used clomid/nolva and felt a little worse during pct but still felt fine afterwards.

The cycle I just finished I used low dose clomid with unleashed/post cycle and I honestly didn't feel it was effective as the first two, I lost the motivation to workout the first time in years, I still pushed through though.

Just my opinion, I didn't have any blood work done.
 
Used Nolva one time after a cycle and I was depressed all the time, lost all my gains because of the way I felt, and made me feel like an addict in withdrawal. I now use torem in place of Nolva and I love it. Torem with unleashed and post cycle is great
 
Well, my first cycle was test enanthate from teva labs dosed at about 500mgs/wk. Used nolva and hcgenerate for my pct and recoverd like a champion! Sex drive on pct might have been my highest since puberty, however, there were extenuating circumstances. So I never understood the whole anti nolva theme on here, but i trusted these folks and switched to a clomid/natty supp approach despite my concern of clomid's optic nerve issues. And, i still recover well, just not as much hornyness during pct. Next time I'm gonna do bloods tho.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using EliteFitness
 
Newbie here...planning my 2nd cycle. I've never used nolva for PCT but was considering it for my 2nd cycle until I started reading up on everyone's opinions. A couple buddies suggested nolva (to answer the opening post). Does anyone have any suggestions for a prefered PCT? if you want my stats and "cycle blueprint" just give me a shout and I'll post it up.
 
I used Nolva and clomid and 6-oxo for prohormone cycles.
I thought the Nolva worked real good at the sore nips.
The 6-oxo was the shit....made me blow fat nutt shots while on it and the clomid I could really tell...improved libido for me but had some weirdo emotional swings on that shit....I could handle but was noticable.

All three worked good together but the 6-oxo was the most fun....clomid was the best
But I did like Nolva better for during for some reason.
I thin I should have used Arimidex though and hcg would have been nice
 
Ive used it, did not make me feel like shit, dont know how effective it was because of the other related stuff i was using at the same time. But I did not get gyno when using it. Ive actually used it alone for certain reasons and did not feel like shit. Would use it again since its the standard PCT regimen including Clomid, HCG. I *might* throw in some natural stuff in PCT but I doubt I would replace entirely the standard PCT protocol with all natural products.
 
I use it every pct. Nolva and clomid. Nolva is smoith sailing, clomid makes me feel a little crappy, headaches and stuff.

Sent from my GT-P3113 using EliteFitness
 
Main therapy of tamoxifen is minimizing potentially elevated post cycle estrogen in breast tissue. If you look at the indication of why it's prescribed and can apply that toward AAS you have your answer.
 
^^bump to a great thread, read every damn post. i might be aging myself here but i've always used either nolva, clomid, and/or hcg in my pct. it was always the standard...natty/legal treatments wasn't even a discussion.

i try not to envelop myself into the scientific breakdown of everything too much...it's easy to get lost, and i find myself spending hours with my eyes glued to a computer screen and not eating or working out which in turn becomes becomes non-constructive. i used to major in chemistry my freshman year but then realized i hated science and just wanted to inject the chemicals, play football, and beat up the chem majors. however after reading this, i'll be poking around for a bit. i'm not going back on anytime soon, but good food for thought here.

~Old Dog
 
Nolva has worked for me me over the years. It has always been a small part of a larger PCT program including clomid and natty test boosters. I've never noticed the sides. Are there better anti-estrogens, probably. But I don't have the time and ability to experiment with every anti-estrogen out there. Especially if Nolva is working just fine.
 
I'm currently 3 weeks into PCT. My original plan was to use:

HCGenerate (started 2 weeks before PCT)
Formasurge 4 pumps AM, 4 pumps PM
Unleashed
Post Cycle II by Powerlab
Forged Liver Supp
Clomid 50/25/25/25

At the end of my cycle and early into PCT I started getting puffy and itchy nips, but no lumps. The Formasurge seemed to keep the problem from getting worse but it wasn't getting rid of it. I had Adex and Nolva on hand. I posted a thread a few weeks ago to get some input on which one would be better for my situation. I received a variety of advice. Some said Nolva, some said Adex. Some also said Letro and Aromasin even though I made it clear that I didn't have any.

I decided to go with Nolva. I took 40 mg on day 1 and then 20 mg ED for the rest of the 1st week. By day 2 the itchy nips had completely gone away. I was very impressed. The product worked very fast for me. By the end of the week, the puffiness had also gone away. Week 2, I reduced the dosage even further to 20 mg EOD. Everything went fine. I discontinued the Nolva after 2 weeks. The Formasurge (for estrogen) seems to be enough at this point.

I chose Nolva because I knew the Formastene was reducing the estrogen but I needed something more immediate to stop the already produced estrogen at the receptor. Nolva seemed to work very nicely with the Forma and I can honestly say that I didn't notice any sides or mood changes.

I also received a number of PM's from guys saying to use Nolva in this situation. I found it interesting that they didn't want to talk about Nolva openly in the thread for all of the flaming reasons. Sometimes people just want to share without debating.

I personally find it interesting that so many complain about the huge sides associated with Nolva. When it comes right down to it, the sides consist of shitty mood and poor sex drive. There seems to be a lot worse sides with other products. Maybe because I have a shitty mood naturally I don't really notice.

I take some of this with a grain of salt. Image you own a transmission shop and 90% of your customers come in having a horrible day because they just blew a tranny and it's going to cost $2500 that they really don't have. For most, it's a pretty fuc#&ng bad day. In the waiting room there is fresh coffee and a soda machine. Which one of the 2 drinks do you think makes people feel more shitty? Because I was in a transmission shop one time and I saw a guy who had a diet coke and he was furious, one of the worst moods I'd ever seen. So I think diet coke sucks.

Point is, PCT time is a pretty tuff time for a lot of guys. They've lost there mojo and some guys think everything makes them feel like shit. It amazes me when I here guys say they were on Test and Dbol and felt great, now there on nolva and clomid and they feel like crap. So obviously nolva and clomid have worse sides than Test and Dbol.
 
I use Hcg, Generate, unleashed and post cycle...fuck Nolva
 
So far it looks like Nolva is winning in the poll. Maybe most people out there aren't experiencing these 'sides'.

Maybe it's a case of those who had bad experiences with Nolva were motivated to discuss it on the forum which has tilted the chatter making it look like most don't like or use it. Kinda like how people don't rush to the Internet to post positive product reviews, only negative.

Still, there's a lot of people on this site and most haven't participated in the poll. I'd also be interested in seeing some more votes.
 
My first cycle I used the "standard" nolva clomid pct. I did recover but it was a bumpy few weeks. I felt like a total BITCH. Extremely emotional and depressed. It was terrible. I'm finishing up a cycle and going to be using the pct that everyone talks about here. NTBM products. Looking forward to it actually.
 
Two months in age, but priceless info.
Please, keep the debate going. This is one of the most debated topics I've read about yet.
I'm on the fence about PCT.
 
let me add this while the topic is hot today.

I rep for ag guys, its in my sig below.. ag guys sells nolva. yet i still do not recommend anyone use it. so for anyone who claims I am biased as a rep or whatever this proves that I care about people and want people to succeed at cycling. sadly many guys fail at it and go on HRT, yet they continue to give advice on pct which is silly to me.
 
A buddy of mine turns into a 14yr old girl on Nolva so that's enough for me not to try it. I've used Clomid for PCT, but anything above 25mg gave me side effects like depressions, anxiety, and libido loss. Not worth it in my opinion so I go 25/25/12.5/12.5 on Clomid along with some HCGenerate and Forma and I'm good. Can't wait to get Unleashed/post cycle for my next pct.
 
I always choose nolva over clomid, unless coming off a 19-nor. Clomid makes me feel so crappy.

Anyways, AG guys has some of the best clomid I have used. Fast delivery and a good price too :)
 
whichever you choose to use ag guys serms work very well.. guys should check them out
 
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