what do you guys do or take between cycles to keep size and or keep growing

[Nelson Montana]

I thought I presented several cogent arguments to validate my original statement. Were've you been?

 

[Bulldog_10]

"Oral ingestion of glutamine does nothing."

"I base it on the fact that it does nothing."

"You're asking me to PROVE it doesn't work. But the burden of proof needs to be on the salesman, not me."

"Is that enough, or do you need more evidence?"

Where exactly is this evidence? Why don't you get off your high horse and show us a study or two that says that glutamine has no effect? I know that's below you, but come on...you're a big author, you should have plenty of resources on this type of thing. Just humor us big guy.

 

[Peyomp]

Nelson...what do you base this on?
............................................
I base it on the fact that it does nothing.

Glutamine is pure marketing hype. There is absolutely no evidence that it builds or preserves muscle. All studies on glutamine where it showed any effect was done on trauma patients and it was with IV administration.

As someone invoed within the industry I had access to lots of free supplements. I took hundreds of dollars worth of glutamine for months with zero results. The only tangible effect that oral glutamine has shown is that it raises ammonia blood levels.

There isn't a single person alive who has benefited from it other than they "think" it helps, or they "believe" it's good, or they "heard" it works, or someone "said" it's effective.

The body makes glutamine from other amino acids (BCAA's) But because it's so prevelant in muscle tissue the supplement comanies just couldn't pass up the opportunity to sucker everyone. And they've done a good job at it. We've all been chumpped into making these pricks richer. That's bad enough. But when people still insist it's good...well, that's embarassing. You shouldn't be praising it. You should be PISSED!

Is that enough, or do you need more evidence?

What about this, found in a few seconds at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12611772&dopt=Abstract ?

1: J Appl Physiol 2003 Feb 28; [epub ahead of print] Related Articles, Links


Glutamine supplementation further enhances exercise-induced plasma IL-6.

Hiscock NJ, Petersen EW, Krzywkowski K, Boza J, Halkjaer-Kristensen J, Pedersen BK.

Rigshospitalet, The Copenhagen Muscle Research Centre, Copenhagen, North, DK-2100, Denmark; Rigshospitalet, Laboratory of Infectious Diseases, Copenhagen, North, DK-2100, Denmark.

Exercise stimulates the production and release of interleukin (IL)-6 from skeletal muscle. Glutamine is also synthesized in skeletal muscle and is involved in protein synthesis within this tissue. During exercise, plasma levels of glutamine decline and this may affect the concentration of plasma IL-6 via a decrease in IL-6 synthesis and release from muscle. We hypothesized that glutamine supplementation would attenuate the exercise-induced decrease in plasma glutamine concentration, and thus, further enhance levels of plasma IL-6. Eight healthy males participated in a randomised, double-blind, cross-over study in which they performed 2 h of cycle ergometry at 75% of VO2 peak. They received either glutamine, glutamine-rich protein or placebo supplementation at intervals during, and two hours after exercise. Exercise induced an 11-fold increase in plasma IL-6, which was further enhanced by both glutamine (18-fold) and glutamine-rich protein (14-fold) supplementation, administered at doses that attenuated the exercise-induced decrease in plasma glutamine concentration. Thus, it is concluded that glutamine supplementation further enhances plasma concentrations of IL-6 during exercise.

PMID: 12611772 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

 

[Nelson Montana]

A slight increase in interlukin among 6 people 2 hours afer cardio activity is some pretty flimsy "evidence" bro. This is so tyical of how conclusons are drawn based on next-to-nothing results. This is the kind of stuff supplement companies love because it "sounds good".

A more conclusive abstract would be the one conducted at the University of Miami where they showed that glutamine supplementation among trained athletes over the course of 6 weeks showed no change in LBM%.

Bulldog: Way to go! Delete 90% of the post and accuse it of being incomplete. I sometimes wonder if people do this on purpose or they just dont know any better.

Now prove that HMB, Boron,Gama Orzonol,Cybergenics and ectosterone don't work. The answer will be that eventually, people got wise to it -- which will be the case with glutamine soon.

 

[Bulldog_10]

A slight increase in interlukin among 6 people 2 hours afer cardio activity is some pretty flimsy "evidence" bro. This is so tyical of how conclusons are drawn based on next-to-nothing results. This is the kind of stuff supplement companies love because it "sounds good".

A more conclusive abstract would be the one conducted at the University of Miami where they showed that glutamine supplementation among trained athletes over the course of 6 weeks showed no change in LBM%.

Bulldog: Way to go! Delete 90% of the post and accuse it of being incomplete. I sometimes wonder if people do this on purpose or they just dont know any better.

Now prove that HMB, Boron,Gama Orzonol,Cybergenics and ectosterone don't work. The answer will be that eventually, people got wise to it -- which will be the case with glutamine soon.

Well, with your wealth of "knowledge" on bodybuilding, you should be able to come up with AT LEAST a couple studies that say glutamine is absolutely worthless. So, where is your "evidence?" I know glutamine is probably not a very good supplement, I agree with you that far...but I don't make claims like you do, and have nothing to back it up...except for "you can't prove I'm wrong." Why don't you back up your claim, as opposed to arguing about the technicalities of the argument?

 

[liftsiron]

I just LOVE it when I present several examples of evidence and someone dismisses it all because they disagree with ONE of them .

liftsiron: You're being ridiculous again. You're asking me to PROVE it doesn't work. But the burden of proof needs to be on the salesman, not me. There is no proof that it DOES work! Do you understand this concept? Which part of NO PROOF is eluding you?

Now prove that you don't have sex with farm animals. Come on. I'm waiting. Prove it. Otherwise I can only conclude that you do.

(Get it bro?)

You say that I'm being ridiculous? You did not present any valid examples of evidence other than your word, which doesn't carry alot of weight with some of the more experienced members of this board. No I do not have sex with farm animals how ever that may be preferable to your wife, so that is why I assume that you pleasure yourself which such activites. Good day sir

 

[Bulldog_10]

No I do not have sex with farm animals how ever that may be preferable to your wife, so that is why I assume that you pleasure yourself which such activites. Good day sir [/B]

Liftsiron..you're being rediculous...it's obvious you have sex with farm animals...and kitties

 

[liftsiron]

Liftsiron..you're being rediculous...it's obvious you have sex with farm animals...and kitties

I do have a kitten and a 90 pound english bulldog and yes often I'm tempted, but my wife frowns on that sort of thing so I restrain myself.

 

[Bulldog_10]

Liftsiron..you're being rediculous...it's obvious you have sex with farm animals...and kitties

I do have a kitten and a 90 pound english bulldog and yes often I'm tempted, but my wife frowns on that sort of thing so I restrain myself.

That's proof enough for me.

 

[Peyomp]

A slight increase in interlukin among 6 people 2 hours afer cardio activity is some pretty flimsy "evidence" bro. This is so tyical of how conclusons are drawn based on next-to-nothing results. This is the kind of stuff supplement companies love because it "sounds good".

A more conclusive abstract would be the one conducted at the University of Miami where they showed that glutamine supplementation among trained athletes over the course of 6 weeks showed no change in LBM%.

Bulldog: Way to go! Delete 90% of the post and accuse it of being incomplete. I sometimes wonder if people do this on purpose or they just dont know any better.

Now prove that HMB, Boron,Gama Orzonol,Cybergenics and ectosterone don't work. The answer will be that eventually, people got wise to it -- which will be the case with glutamine soon.

Isn't the truth Nelson, that large scale studies about this kinda thing are very expensive, and therefore cost prohibitive? If you can quote a study that says Glutamine does nothing, I'll consider it. But I agree with him, that you ought to provide evidence as well so that we can evaluate it, instead of just "trusting you."

I mean, this entire board is founded on pseudo science. We take the peer review aspect of the scientific community, and apply it to our higly subjective reports of our results with gear, side effects, etc.

Sources are nice. Please bookmark and post em, since apparently you've read them.