very slow gains

[footdoc]

Ok I've done my research but I am still not gaining at the rate that most of you guys do. My stats are age:51 body fat:22% height 5'11'' weight: 200. My diet consists of oatmeal or cereal in the morning. Protein shake with 70 grams of protein about 2 hours after breakfast lunch is usually peanut butter sandwich on multi-grain bread. Another protein shake with 70 grms of protein after workout. Dinner is usually chicken or beef with brown rice. Snack before bed is usually tuna salad and ritz crackers.
My cycle has consisted of 100 mg of tren ace eod. Test cyp 500 mg twice per week. I take unleashed every day and take hcgenerate everyday. I also did hcg in mid cycle.
Overall I look more muscular but havent gained a ton of strength and have only gained 6 lbs of muscle in 2 months.

 

[RADAR]

your diet needs tweaking


http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/a...-build-muscle-loose-fat-then-read-712503.html

 

[oxymoron]

Is this a first cycle footdoc? A gram/wk of cyp? Thats a shit ton.
Anyways, test cyp is longer (slower) acting and takes a few weeks for you to start seeing a benefit. Be patient, thats a lot of gear.
All you're seeing now is the tren acetate because it very fast acting. Usually people run it with test prop not cyp.

 

[footdoc]

your diet needs tweaking


http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/a...-build-muscle-loose-fat-then-read-712503.html

I'm all ears boss

 

[RADAR]

I'm all ears boss

If you have any questions after reading that post em up or pm me!

 

[stevesmi]

no one grows on protein shakes. you need to get rid of the shakes and eat real food.

 

[RADAR]

no one grows on protein shakes. you need to get rid of the shakes and eat real food.

Right! shakes are a supplement , they help, but most of your protein requirements should come from Real food. as a matter of fact you need at least 1-2 grams of protein for every pound of bodyweight, Plus your BF percentage is 22% meaning you need to up your metabolism by doing some cardio.then complete that by breaking your feedings in 6-7 smaller servings thruout the day.

 

[stevesmi]

Right! shakes are a supplement , they help, but most of your protein requirements should come from Real food. as a matter of fact you need at least 1-2 grams of protein for every pound of bodyweight, Plus your BF percentage is 22% meaning you need to up your metabolism by doing some cardio.then complete that by breaking your feedings in 6-7 smaller servings thruout the day.

learned that myself thanks to elite fitness. my first cycle i had decent gains but i relied too much on protein shakes.

2nd cycle my results were like night and day when i learned to eat real food. i have to thank you, Ross, and the other vets for that advice.

 

[footdoc]

no one grows on protein shakes. you need to get rid of the shakes and eat real food.

I certainly respect your opinion. Give me a sample of what I should change. Thanks bro

 

[RADAR]

Theres a list of the most popular muscle building foods in my link, nuts,eggs,fish, turkey...ect.

learning to eat is part of the battle.

 

[stevesmi]

I certainly respect your opinion. Give me a sample of what I should change. Thanks bro

here is an example of a typical breakfast for me which yielded me amazing results

2 whole grain waffles with natural honey
2 turkey/chicken sandwiches on ezekial bread with tons of lettuce, tomatoes (onions are great too but i dont like them)
2 cups of berries
2 cups of quality water
1 bowl of organic oatmeal
2-3 hardboiled eggs

that is what your breakfast should be alone

a protein shake and an egg for breakfast isn't gonna cut it. notice you are getting protein and complex carbs with that breakfast. you are also getting nutrients from the veggies, and anti-oxidants from the fruit. its a quality breakfast and your muscles will feed off of it. also i would recommend you do some starved cardio BEFORE eating this breakfast since you are a bit heavier and older then most guys and ur goals might be a bit different

 

[Juiced91]

here is an example of a typical breakfast for me which yielded me amazing results

2 whole grain waffles with natural honey
2 turkey/chicken sandwiches on ezekial bread with tons of lettuce, tomatoes (onions are great too but i dont like them)
2 cups of berries
2 cups of quality water
1 bowl of organic oatmeal
2-3 hardboiled eggs

that is what your breakfast should be alone

a protein shake and an egg for breakfast isn't gonna cut it. notice you are getting protein and complex carbs with that breakfast. you are also getting nutrients from the veggies, and anti-oxidants from the fruit. its a quality breakfast and your muscles will feed off of it. also i would recommend you do some starved cardio BEFORE eating this breakfast since you are a bit heavier and older then most guys and ur goals might be a bit different

Wow thats a breakfast and a half.. ha ha i eat 10 eggs 8 egg whites 2 whole eggs. And a Bowl of oats with some fruit. I have seen good results just by that i couldnt imagine what i would see eating that..

 

[stevesmi]

Wow thats a breakfast and a half.. ha ha i eat 10 eggs 8 egg whites 2 whole eggs. And a Bowl of oats with some fruit. I have seen good results just by that i couldnt imagine what i would see eating that..

its important to mix things up. not have the same thing every morning. this way to balance the different nutrients you are putting in your body. also i would alternate things for example. one morning scrambled eggs, the next hardboiled eggs, etc. i know for me if i were to eat boiled eggs for a week straight i would start getting gassy from them. but if i mix it up i avoid that.

 

[Zyglamail]

I agree on diet aspect. Have you actually totaled calories and nutrient breakdown (ie carbs, pro, fat)? My guess would be your not eating enough and metabolism us tanking because of it. If your doing standard moderate rate cardio your also oozing cortisol which is totally counterproductive to mass gains. Your body fat is high enough where you can gain mass and lose fat on a caloric deficit but it cant be very large. Your age will also be a factor. I work out 4 times a week, one dedicated strength day (deads, squat, overhead press) and 3 other days where I typically do one compound strength movement (deads, squats, oly lifts etc) followed by a CF style metcon. Im only on TRT and according to bod pod measurements have gained 5lbs of muscle and lost 5 lbs of fat in the last six weeks and total body weight has remained constant. Ditch anything processed which includes bread and pasta. Rice is empty but if your having problems getting carbs from leafy greans and fruits try barley, much higher in fiber and has a lower glycemic impact and has about the same texture as rice.

You need to become strict on recording your diet so you know how much of what your getting and how many cals per day. Everyone is different so all the recommendations in the world here will get you in the ball park but you need to tweak it yourself. You cant narrow it down to what works if you cant identify what doesnt work. Ideally this kind of diet and workout experimentation should be done before you start a cycle so you can make the most out of your cycle. Experimenting with diet and workout potentially wastes a lot of the potential benefits from a cycle.

 

[footdoc]

A big thanks to all of you! Thats a shit load of food steve. I just don't know if I have it in me to eat that much!

 

[stevesmi]

A big thanks to all of you! Thats a shit load of food steve. I just don't know if I have it in me to eat that much!

your workouts should be fierce on cycle, enough where your body is begging for more food.

 

[Deltoid_87]

here is an example of a typical breakfast for me which yielded me amazing results

2 whole grain waffles with natural honey
2 turkey/chicken sandwiches on ezekial bread with tons of lettuce, tomatoes (onions are great too but i dont like them)
2 cups of berries
2 cups of quality water
1 bowl of organic oatmeal
2-3 hardboiled eggs

that is what your breakfast should be alone

Thats a ridiculous amount of food. I don't know anyone who can eat that much in one serving most people would throw up... how big are u 300lbs ?

 

[ALIN]

Ok I've done my research but I am still not gaining at the rate that most of you guys do. My stats are age:51 body fat:22% height 5'11'' weight: 200. My diet consists of oatmeal or cereal in the morning. Protein shake with 70 grams of protein about 2 hours after breakfast lunch is usually peanut butter sandwich on multi-grain bread. Another protein shake with 70 grms of protein after workout. Dinner is usually chicken or beef with brown rice. Snack before bed is usually tuna salad and ritz crackers.
My cycle has consisted of 100 mg of tren ace eod. Test cyp 500 mg twice per week. I take unleashed every day and take hcgenerate everyday. I also did hcg in mid cycle.
Overall I look more muscular but havent gained a ton of strength and have only gained 6 lbs of muscle in 2 months.

I'm betting your not eating enough. Whats your nutrient breakdown of protein,,fats,,and carbs?
Sounds like your taking in very little carbs. You need them to grow.

 

[stevesmi]

Thats a ridiculous amount of food. I don't know anyone who can eat that much in one serving most people would throw up... how big are u 300lbs ?

I am 180. notice the foods i listed are healthy and nutritious. they wont make you fat as long as you are doing some kind of workout ED which you should be doing on cycle. no couch potato activities while on cycle!

breakfast should be the largest meal of the day. that is the diet you must have to succeed in gaining mass and strength.

the body just spent 8 hours without food while you were asleep. you better feed it when you get up

every 2 hours eat atleast a snack. as the day goes on you lessen the meals size. dinner should be the smallest, breakfast the largest. 8 hours of quality sleep. its money in the bank. dont forget SLEEP, very important.

do it and NO ONE will be complaining of slow gains!!

 

[RADAR]

I am 180.

breakfast should be the largest meal of the day. that is the diet you must have to succeed in gaining mass and strength.

the body just spent 8 hours without food while you were asleep. you better feed it when you get up

every 2 hours eat atleast a snack. as the day goes on you lessen the meals size. dinner should be the smallest, breakfast the largest. 8 hours of quality sleep. its money in the bank. dont forget SLEEP, very important.

Nice to see someone here has really been paying attention!
Good advice steve.

 

[stevesmi]

The high calorie diet is only effective if it is one which is abundant in nutrients. It is known that anabolic steroids including sustanon, [URL="http://drugsprofiles.com/anabolic-androgenic-steroids/anadrol.html"]anadrol[/URL], [URL="http://drugsprofiles.com/anabolic-androgenic-steroids/deca-durabolin.html"]deca durabolin[/URL] only exert their positive effects when an ample amount of dietary Protein is consumed. It is also a must that carbohydrate intake be high enough that it is the sole source of energy, allowing Protein to be used for its primary functions and not energy purposes

Few steroids work well on reduced calorie diet ( [URL="http://drugsprofiles.com/anabolic-androgenic-steroids/primobolan.html"]primobolan[/URL], winstrol ) with others like [URL="http://drugsprofiles.com/anabolic-androgenic-steroids/sustanon-250.html"]sustanon[/URL], deca durabolin, dianabol, anadrol, equipoise, testosterone you will make little progress without food. The idea is clear; food plays a major role in the acquisition of muscle mass. Most think that steroids alone will do everything but even mega doses of sustanon or anadrol won't give you significant gains without training and right nutrition

 

[satyricon1]

I see there are a lot of focus on your diet and how you eat. I think a lot of the dieting advice that you get here is a bit old fashioned thinking without much science behind it. But then again, people are different and it may work for some. Personally I like Animalbolics. Pretty straight forward and easy to follow. Allows you to shred while gaining muscle, believe it or not.

I also think that the way you work out can make a lot of difference. There are a lot of different styles and programs out there, but the one that I find most scientific intriguing is the Hypertrophic Stiumlation Training or HST. It is a way of training that I have been doing for many years, I have had incredible natural gains with it, and even close to crazy gains while on gear, I have also kept most of what I gained on my previous cycle.

In my book, those two "items" are just my GOD! Nothing above, nothing next to.. just amazingly effective, at least for me.

 

[Zyglamail]

Few steroids work well on reduced calorie diet ( [URL="http://drugsprofiles.com/anabolic-androgenic-steroids/primobolan.html"]primobolan[/URL], winstrol ) with others like [URL="http://drugsprofiles.com/anabolic-androgenic-steroids/sustanon-250.html"]sustanon[/URL], deca durabolin, dianabol, anadrol, equipoise, testosterone you will make little progress without food. The idea is clear; food plays a major role in the acquisition of muscle mass. Most think that steroids alone will do everything but even mega doses of sustanon or anadrol won't give you significant gains without training and right nutrition

I dont think its as simple as saying XXX AAS works with reduced cals and another does. There are way too many factors to make it that simple. First and foremost you need to have the calories to support base metabolic functions. You need to have ample protein to add mass, ideally from mixed sources and then you need to have calories to fuel the rest of your daily functions.

If the sole goal is mass gain eat in abundance and eat ultra clean and fat gain will be a minimum but extra calories will mean extra fat.

In terms of pure calories people who have >15%BF have a little more leeway than someone at 10% when it comes to consuming cals for fueling their body. They have fat stores their body can use and when over 15% BF or so the body fairly easily gives it up so its not nearly as important they eat a large excess of cals.

satyricon1, when size was my goal (when I was younger) HST was my method as well. But now that im over 40 I just dont want to be >250 and of course now that im older its a hell of a lot harder to gain and keep it and im more into overall general fitness. The "me" today isnt quite as strong as the "me" of 10 years ago but im a hell of a lot more fit and suspect I will be close to my old strength level (just coming back after a long layoff) and probably a good 30lbs lighter.

My guess is footdoc is probably looking for for just some nice general size based on his age. Its tough as hell to put on and carry a lot of mass when your over 50.

 

[footdoc]

I dont think its as simple as saying XXX AAS works with reduced cals and another does. There are way too many factors to make it that simple. First and foremost you need to have the calories to support base metabolic functions. You need to have ample protein to add mass, ideally from mixed sources and then you need to have calories to fuel the rest of your daily functions.

If the sole goal is mass gain eat in abundance and eat ultra clean and fat gain will be a minimum but extra calories will mean extra fat.

In terms of pure calories people who have >15%BF have a little more leeway than someone at 10% when it comes to consuming cals for fueling their body. They have fat stores their body can use and when over 15% BF or so the body fairly easily gives it up so its not nearly as important they eat a large excess of cals.

satyricon1, when size was my goal (when I was younger) HST was my method as well. But now that im over 40 I just dont want to be >250 and of course now that im older its a hell of a lot harder to gain and keep it and im more into overall general fitness. The "me" today isnt quite as strong as the "me" of 10 years ago but im a hell of a lot more fit and suspect I will be close to my old strength level (just coming back after a long layoff) and probably a good 30lbs lighter.

My guess is footdoc is probably looking for for just some nice general size based on his age. Its tough as hell to put on and carry a lot of mass when your over 50.

That is so true. If I gain too much mass my colleagues will notice. I just want to look the best I can

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

Just a little food for thought.

I've naturally and chemically enhanced gained 25-30lbs inside of 8-12 weeks several times after coming back from a layoff and people always notice it, but I've never been accused of using steroids.

If people know you work out and you go "on" and gain 15-25lbs all you have to say is that you are training your ass off using P90X with creatine and celltech or some bullshit.

99% of people really wouldn't know any better.

Not only that, but some people just have sick genetics for gaining size/strength rapidly so you could always use that card too.

The last thing I'm worried about is gaining noticeable size because I don't talk about aas ever and if someone mentions it I just act like your typical joe that is clueless. Works every time.

 

[RADAR]

I dont think its as simple as saying XXX AAS works with reduced cals and another does. There are way too many factors to make it that simple. First and foremost you need to have the calories to support base metabolic functions. You need to have ample protein to add mass, ideally from mixed sources and then you need to have calories to fuel the rest of your daily functions.

If the sole goal is mass gain eat in abundance and eat ultra clean and fat gain will be a minimum but extra calories will mean extra fat.

In terms of pure calories people who have >15%BF have a little more leeway than someone at 10% when it comes to consuming cals for fueling their body. They have fat stores their body can use and when over 15% BF or so the body fairly easily gives it up so its not nearly as important they eat a large excess of cals.

satyricon1, when size was my goal (when I was younger) HST was my method as well. But now that im over 40 I just dont want to be >250 and of course now that im older its a hell of a lot harder to gain and keep it and im more into overall general fitness. The "me" today isnt quite as strong as the "me" of 10 years ago but im a hell of a lot more fit and suspect I will be close to my old strength level (just coming back after a long layoff) and probably a good 30lbs lighter.

My guess is footdoc is probably looking for for just some nice general size based on his age. Its tough as hell to put on and carry a lot of mass when your over 50.

I agree , i was 260 10 or more yrs ago as you get older climbing stairs becomes a chore i'm pushing 60 and i feel in better shape than i have in my life 198, 5' 8" 10% bf

 

[footdoc]

Excellent information from some of the very top people on our site. I remember when I could barely get any quiestions answered.

 

[Zyglamail]

theres nothing wrong with opting for pasta, white rice, couple jelly beans, lean burgers (not mcdonalds), ur favourite high carb cereal like coco pops or rice bubbles etc if your struggling to get ur carb intake in

I would much rather load up on good fats than carbs or worse yet anything with HFCS in it. There are a lot of good fat sources that are super calorie dense if you need cals and the fats wont jack with your insulin like carbs will. Various nuts, olives, whole milk and avocados to name a few.

 

[stevesmi]

the junk food diet works for guys under 20. when i was a runner there was a high school dude who would brag that he eats hot dogs before coming out to a race. when i lifted in high school i had little options with nutrition. i would usually have fast food for lunch, what other option does a guy making a nickel above minimum wage have?

as adults we are past that. and should be eating nutritious foods. if you gain on junk food, you did in SPITE of it. if you ate better your gains would be better.

 

[stevesmi]

I would much rather load up on good fats than carbs or worse yet anything with HFCS in it. There are a lot of good fat sources that are super calorie dense if you need cals and the fats wont jack with your insulin like carbs will. Various nuts, olives, whole milk and avocados to name a few.

exactly.. there is a direct corelation to my diet and my results. i wish i could eat oreo's and pizza and build muscle, but not gonna happen.