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US Army teaching Anti-Arab Racism

the_alcatraz

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A 2003's "Soldier's Guide to the Republic of Iraq," issued by the Army on the eve of the U.S. invasion, tells troops that Arabs see "little virtue in a frank exchange" and are "by American standards... reluctant to accept responsibility."

Those are just a few of the surprising passages found while leafing through the booklet, prepared by the Army's 101st Airborne Division. Here are some excerpts from the "cultural considerations" chapter:

* There is little virtue in a frank exchange. Getting down to business may always occur at a later meeting or a more informal setting such as dinner.

* Arabs, by American standards, are reluctant to accept responsibility... if responsibility is accepted and something goes wrong, the Arab is dishonored.

* Arabs operate by personal relations more than by time constraints.

* Arabs, by American standards, are reluctant to accept responsibility.

* Arabs do not believe in upward mobility or social status; they gain status by being born in the right family.

* Arabs do not shake hands firmly. If an Arab does not touch you, it usually means that he does not like you.

* It is said that the Arab likes to feel your breath in their face. As you back away, the Arab will continue to shuffle forward. This is known as the "diplomatic shuffle."

* An Arab sees friendships with anyone outside the family as meaning, "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours."

(Read pages 8-9, 10-11, and 14-15.)

Parts of the guide were put online -- and greeted with arched eyebrows -- when it first came out in 2003. Four years of ongoing conflict have made the document an even more awkward read, showing just how far policy and perceptions have come since the heady days of "Shock and Awe."

Even odder is comparing the 2003 booklet to 1943's A Short Guide to Iraq for soldiers. In many ways, the two documents, spread sixty years apart, still have a fair amount in common:

NEVER discuss religion or politics or women with Moslems. (1943)

Don't [d]iscuss religion or try to convert an Arab to your faith (2003)

If you see grown men walking hand in hand, ignore it. They are not queer. (1943)

It is common for good friends of the same sex to hold hands while walking in public (2003)

To be fair, the booklet says that it's not meant to be a comprehensive guide. And parts of the publication are extremely useful: information on geography, road signs, wild life and language. There are also some sensible rules for dealing with the media ("don't lie"), and some debatable guidance as well ("Do not provide the enemy with propaganda material by complaining about things").



To be honest, this is rediculous, mostly untrue, and seems simply to be anti-arab propaganda.

Full article here:

http://www.nowpublic.com/is_the_united_states_army_officially_teaching_anti_arab_racism
 
myway said:
My ex is a Marine. He seemed to have more issues with Army and Air Force than Arabs,lol.

I have no issues against the actual US army. They're just doing their jobs. I have issues with US (Bush) politics and his superiority and fighting terrorism bs...
 
myway said:
I do agree they are providing some bad information to young minds.

Teaching them racism way too early. The same happens on our side of the table.
 
the_alcatraz said:
A 2003's "Soldier's Guide to the Republic of Iraq," issued by the Army on the eve of the U.S. invasion, tells troops that Arabs see "little virtue in a frank exchange" and are "by American standards... reluctant to accept responsibility."

Those are just a few of the surprising passages found while leafing through the booklet, prepared by the Army's 101st Airborne Division. Here are some excerpts from the "cultural considerations" chapter:

* There is little virtue in a frank exchange. Getting down to business may always occur at a later meeting or a more informal setting such as dinner.

* Arabs, by American standards, are reluctant to accept responsibility... if responsibility is accepted and something goes wrong, the Arab is dishonored.

* Arabs operate by personal relations more than by time constraints.

* Arabs, by American standards, are reluctant to accept responsibility.

* Arabs do not believe in upward mobility or social status; they gain status by being born in the right family.

* Arabs do not shake hands firmly. If an Arab does not touch you, it usually means that he does not like you.

* It is said that the Arab likes to feel your breath in their face. As you back away, the Arab will continue to shuffle forward. This is known as the "diplomatic shuffle."

* An Arab sees friendships with anyone outside the family as meaning, "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours."

(Read pages 8-9, 10-11, and 14-15.)

Parts of the guide were put online -- and greeted with arched eyebrows -- when it first came out in 2003. Four years of ongoing conflict have made the document an even more awkward read, showing just how far policy and perceptions have come since the heady days of "Shock and Awe."

Even odder is comparing the 2003 booklet to 1943's A Short Guide to Iraq for soldiers. In many ways, the two documents, spread sixty years apart, still have a fair amount in common:

NEVER discuss religion or politics or women with Moslems. (1943)

Don't [d]iscuss religion or try to convert an Arab to your faith (2003)

If you see grown men walking hand in hand, ignore it. They are not queer. (1943)

It is common for good friends of the same sex to hold hands while walking in public (2003)

To be fair, the booklet says that it's not meant to be a comprehensive guide. And parts of the publication are extremely useful: information on geography, road signs, wild life and language. There are also some sensible rules for dealing with the media ("don't lie"), and some debatable guidance as well ("Do not provide the enemy with propaganda material by complaining about things").



To be honest, this is rediculous, mostly untrue, and seems simply to be anti-arab propaganda.

Full article here:

http://www.nowpublic.com/is_the_united_states_army_officially_teaching_anti_arab_racism
arabs arent all bad?
 
the_alcatraz said:
I have no issues against the actual US army. They're just doing their jobs. I have issues with US (Bush) politics and his superiority and fighting terrorism bs...
+1

"if you're not for us, you're against us" rhetoric, is divisive and dangerous.

any form of racism is the genesis for evil. when you dehumanize a people
you can commit unspeakable acts of oppression and violence on them
without reservation and in good conscious.

i am embarrassed and angry that we as americans elected him as our
leader. it will be over soon. i hope we've learned our lesson
 
layinback said:
+1

"if you're not for us, you're against us" rhetoric, is divisive and dangerous.

any form of racism is the genesis for evil. when you dehumanize a people
you can commit unspeakable acts of oppression and violence on them
without reservation and in good conscious.

i am embarrassed and angry that we as americans elected him as our
leader. it will be over soon. i hope we've learned our lesson

I wish u would tell us which ur gonna be voting for.. :Popcorn:
 
Good post

layinback said:
+1

"if you're not for us, you're against us" rhetoric, is divisive and dangerous.

any form of racism is the genesis for evil. when you dehumanize a people
you can commit unspeakable acts of oppression and violence on them
without reservation and in good conscious.

i am embarrassed and angry that we as americans elected him as our
leader. it will be over soon. i hope we've learned our lesson
 
the_alcatraz said:

* There is little virtue in a frank exchange. Getting down to business may always occur at a later meeting or a more informal setting such as dinner.

* Arabs, by American standards, are reluctant to accept responsibility... if responsibility is accepted and something goes wrong, the Arab is dishonored.

* Arabs operate by personal relations more than by time constraints.

* Arabs, by American standards, are reluctant to accept responsibility.

* Arabs do not believe in upward mobility or social status; they gain status by being born in the right family.

* Arabs do not shake hands firmly. If an Arab does not touch you, it usually means that he does not like you.

* It is said that the Arab likes to feel your breath in their face. As you back away, the Arab will continue to shuffle forward. This is known as the "diplomatic shuffle."

* An Arab sees friendships with anyone outside the family as meaning, "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours."



Which of the above statements do you construe to be racist, and why? I guess it is ironic that you and others see it that way, because I am quite sure that the intent was for soldiers to be informed about arab/islamic culture so that they could be more effective in their mission.

Soldiers in Iraq are not just kicking down doors and shooting. They are negotiating with mayors and councilmembers, building schools, hospitals and otherwise dealing directly with the local populace. I think a lot of the guidlines above have probably been validated in the process.

By the way, you can bet that Arab consultants were involved in writing these guidelines for the troops.
 
Bro, my only issue is that most of the above is not very accurate.

Longhorn85 said:
Which of the above statements do you construe to be racist, and why? I guess it is ironic that you and others see it that way, because I am quite sure that the intent was for soldiers to be informed about arab/islamic culture so that they could be more effective in their mission.

By the way, you can bet that Arab consultants were involved in writing these guidelines for the troops.
 
the_alcatraz said:
Bro, my only issue is that most of the above is not very accurate.

Your thread title is not accurate. The manual was written to advise soldiers of some of the realities of dealing with people in that region, focusing on the differences from US culture.

Many ways we approach deal-making or negotiations can be insulting to Arabs and can ruin a leader´s credibility. That is why some of these guidelines are here...avoid fixing responsibility on a person you are negotiating with, etc. It is just done differently.

Many of the things you didn't choose to mention are things like observing prayer times, not showing the bottoms of your feet when sitting down and always graciously accepting any food or drink you are offerered.

You chose only to quote those things you see as negative.
 
Longhorn85 said:
Your thread title is not accurate.

Title of the article, IF you've read it before you argued. The link is there. And yes, there is racism.
 
cry me a river.

as soon as they start rallying against the suicide bombers, they can deal with it, as far as i'm concerned.

how bout the Iranian leader saying that "Israel should be wiped off the map"? that seems a little worse than this little leaflet. or, how about the beheadings of civilians on Al-Jazeera? ya, that was cute too.



the_alcatraz said:
A 2003's "Soldier's Guide to the Republic of Iraq," issued by the Army on the eve of the U.S. invasion, tells troops that Arabs see "little virtue in a frank exchange" and are "by American standards... reluctant to accept responsibility."

Those are just a few of the surprising passages found while leafing through the booklet, prepared by the Army's 101st Airborne Division. Here are some excerpts from the "cultural considerations" chapter:

* There is little virtue in a frank exchange. Getting down to business may always occur at a later meeting or a more informal setting such as dinner.

* Arabs, by American standards, are reluctant to accept responsibility... if responsibility is accepted and something goes wrong, the Arab is dishonored.

* Arabs operate by personal relations more than by time constraints.

* Arabs, by American standards, are reluctant to accept responsibility.

* Arabs do not believe in upward mobility or social status; they gain status by being born in the right family.

* Arabs do not shake hands firmly. If an Arab does not touch you, it usually means that he does not like you.

* It is said that the Arab likes to feel your breath in their face. As you back away, the Arab will continue to shuffle forward. This is known as the "diplomatic shuffle."

* An Arab sees friendships with anyone outside the family as meaning, "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours."

(Read pages 8-9, 10-11, and 14-15.)

Parts of the guide were put online -- and greeted with arched eyebrows -- when it first came out in 2003. Four years of ongoing conflict have made the document an even more awkward read, showing just how far policy and perceptions have come since the heady days of "Shock and Awe."

Even odder is comparing the 2003 booklet to 1943's A Short Guide to Iraq for soldiers. In many ways, the two documents, spread sixty years apart, still have a fair amount in common:

NEVER discuss religion or politics or women with Moslems. (1943)

Don't [d]iscuss religion or try to convert an Arab to your faith (2003)

If you see grown men walking hand in hand, ignore it. They are not queer. (1943)

It is common for good friends of the same sex to hold hands while walking in public (2003)

To be fair, the booklet says that it's not meant to be a comprehensive guide. And parts of the publication are extremely useful: information on geography, road signs, wild life and language. There are also some sensible rules for dealing with the media ("don't lie"), and some debatable guidance as well ("Do not provide the enemy with propaganda material by complaining about things").



To be honest, this is rediculous, mostly untrue, and seems simply to be anti-arab propaganda.

Full article here:

http://www.nowpublic.com/is_the_united_states_army_officially_teaching_anti_arab_racism
 
layinback said:
when you dehumanize a people
you can commit unspeakable acts of oppression and violence on them
without reservation and in good conscious.

i am embarrassed and angry that we as americans elected him as our
leader. it will be over soon. i hope we've learned our lesson

Bush administration did not write the manual, it a US Army field manual written with the aid of Arab consultants. They have been around before Bush was elected.

If you read it, I don't think you'd come away with the conclusion that it tries to dehumanize. If fact, you might think we are bending over backwards to respect the local culture to the point of endangering our own forces.
 
the_alcatraz said:
From the article said:
They have learned quite a bit from the Third Reich office of State Propaganda haven’t they? - The Angryindian

This article is anti-American propaganda, or should I say crap.

I criticise this US administrations policies any day, but this isn't criticism, this is just about sticking the boot into the US military and crying racist.

The accusations of racism i the field manual are far fetched - if these statements about Arab culture are racist - then a lot of other statements about other cultures are racist. Like "Japanese people tend to bow a lot for greetings", "South Americans like to shake their booty when doing hot latin dances", "white people suck at basketball", etc. Maybe that's racist, doesn't stop it from being true.



b0und (OMG racist!!!)
 
It's hard to not feel that way against arabs after what has happened because I'll tell you if you put one on an airplane with me I'm not taking my eyes off his ass. The things I've seen over there messed me up but I still have a few friends that are arabs but it took awhile for me to except them which i don't do to other people. I have to look more into that manuel before I say anything about it.
 
Read the full article. Its a shitload of anti-US, anti-western, anti-military propaganda.

Here's my favorite part:

It is a continuation of classical European expansionist misinformation to programme the ‘Hearts and Minds’ of those called upon to perform acts rational human beings would find repulsive. War and repression are not universally embraced ideals. On the whole, those who possess material means and the reins of socio-political and economic power customarily strive to retain such status by any means necessary including the use of brute force. It is the victims of the insecurities of the privileged that abhor perpetual conflict. Not because they have nothing to fight for, but because before invasion from those who had nothing, they had all they needed and shared it uniformly. Mainstream pedagogical studies today call such cultural ethics, “Proofs of their instinctive ignorance.”
 
Longhorn85 said:
Bush administration did not write the manual, it a US Army field manual written with the aid of Arab consultants. They have been around before Bush was elected.

If you read it, I don't think you'd come away with the conclusion that it tries to dehumanize. If fact, you might think we are bending over backwards to respect the local culture to the point of endangering our own forces.


Come on LH, you know people only see thing for what they want them to be! This is truly a fine example of that.
 
Try as I might i just can't find anything wrong with what you said was in the manual. The Army is only trying to help its soldiers understand a different culture.
 
the_alcatraz said:
A 2003's "Soldier's Guide to the Republic of Iraq," issued by the Army on the eve of the U.S. invasion, tells troops that Arabs see "little virtue in a frank exchange" and are "by American standards... reluctant to accept responsibility."

Those are just a few of the surprising passages found while leafing through the booklet, prepared by the Army's 101st Airborne Division. Here are some excerpts from the "cultural considerations" chapter:

* There is little virtue in a frank exchange. Getting down to business may always occur at a later meeting or a more informal setting such as dinner.

* Arabs, by American standards, are reluctant to accept responsibility... if responsibility is accepted and something goes wrong, the Arab is dishonored.

* Arabs operate by personal relations more than by time constraints.

* Arabs, by American standards, are reluctant to accept responsibility.

* Arabs do not believe in upward mobility or social status; they gain status by being born in the right family.

* Arabs do not shake hands firmly. If an Arab does not touch you, it usually means that he does not like you.

* It is said that the Arab likes to feel your breath in their face. As you back away, the Arab will continue to shuffle forward. This is known as the "diplomatic shuffle."

* An Arab sees friendships with anyone outside the family as meaning, "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours."

(Read pages 8-9, 10-11, and 14-15.)

Parts of the guide were put online -- and greeted with arched eyebrows -- when it first came out in 2003. Four years of ongoing conflict have made the document an even more awkward read, showing just how far policy and perceptions have come since the heady days of "Shock and Awe."

Even odder is comparing the 2003 booklet to 1943's A Short Guide to Iraq for soldiers. In many ways, the two documents, spread sixty years apart, still have a fair amount in common:

NEVER discuss religion or politics or women with Moslems. (1943)

Don't [d]iscuss religion or try to convert an Arab to your faith (2003)

If you see grown men walking hand in hand, ignore it. They are not queer. (1943)

It is common for good friends of the same sex to hold hands while walking in public (2003)

To be fair, the booklet says that it's not meant to be a comprehensive guide. And parts of the publication are extremely useful: information on geography, road signs, wild life and language. There are also some sensible rules for dealing with the media ("don't lie"), and some debatable guidance as well ("Do not provide the enemy with propaganda material by complaining about things").



To be honest, this is rediculous, mostly untrue, and seems simply to be anti-arab propaganda.

Full article here:

http://www.nowpublic.com/is_the_united_states_army_officially_teaching_anti_arab_racism

I've seen corporate training programs for expats that have similar material. I do not think this is racist. Some of it may be inaccurate but it is vitally important that US personnel is aware of the cultural differences that exist.

What specifically is racist about this?
 
I am disturbed that this Army phamphlet is considered racist. I agree 100% with Longhorn and Mr. Plunkey.

This past semester I worked with my school in negotiating an exchange program with a group of Chinese scholars. We have Chinese professors on our staff and they gave us the low down on how to work with the Chinese.

The cultural differences between us and them are very significant. Negotiations broke down because of these differences. Chinese, in general, favor personal relations more than contractual relations. If they do not personally know you, it is very difficult to work together. Is it racist that I state this? No. Does this apply to all Chinese people? Probably not. In the three instances I have worked with the Chinese though it has been true.

I think it is ignorant to not recognize that there are differences between cultures. I also think it is ignorant to assume this manual is racist.

Also, look at the US military. You have 500,000 people. Or look at IBM, they have over 100,000 people. They operate in many different cultures. To ensure their success in their international operations they are going to establish manuals and books that contain generalizations. Why? Because it is impossible to educate their workforce on every unique aspect of each foreign culture.
 
the_alcatraz said:
A 2003's "Soldier's Guide to the Republic of Iraq," issued by the Army on the eve of the U.S. invasion, tells troops that Arabs see "little virtue in a frank exchange" and are "by American standards... reluctant to accept responsibility."

Those are just a few of the surprising passages found while leafing through the booklet, prepared by the Army's 101st Airborne Division. Here are some excerpts from the "cultural considerations" chapter:

* There is little virtue in a frank exchange. Getting down to business may always occur at a later meeting or a more informal setting such as dinner.

* Arabs, by American standards, are reluctant to accept responsibility... if responsibility is accepted and something goes wrong, the Arab is dishonored.

* Arabs operate by personal relations more than by time constraints.

* Arabs, by American standards, are reluctant to accept responsibility.

* Arabs do not believe in upward mobility or social status; they gain status by being born in the right family.

* Arabs do not shake hands firmly. If an Arab does not touch you, it usually means that he does not like you.

* It is said that the Arab likes to feel your breath in their face. As you back away, the Arab will continue to shuffle forward. This is known as the "diplomatic shuffle."

* An Arab sees friendships with anyone outside the family as meaning, "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours."

Based on my experiences with Arabs (not Westernized Arabs - I am talking about the faculty I have worked with and the foreign exchange students I know) the items I highlighted in Blue are very accurate.
 
Army Vet said:
Based on my experiences with Arabs (not Westernized Arabs - I am talking about the faculty I have worked with and the foreign exchange students I know) the items I highlighted in Blue are very accurate.
Your baby is white. Clearly you must be racist and part of the KKK. I don't have this problem.
 
So...maybe Im missing something (and maybe someone already brought this up) but how is this document racist in any way, shape, or form?

Generalizations do not automatically equal racism ya know. If I say that black people usually dont have blond hair, would you call me a racist.

Wait, dont answer that. I may already know.
 
Nothing racist about the guidelines. Many differences exist between cultures, and if we are to do business in another country and culture it behooves us to know the customs, traditions, and culture so that we may gain credibility and trust.
 
75th said:
So...maybe Im missing something (and maybe someone already brought this up) but how is this document racist in any way, shape, or form?

Generalizations do not automatically equal racism ya know. If I say that black people usually dont have blond hair, would you call me a racist.

Wait, dont answer that. I may already know.
RACI....you get the idea.
 
I cooked some chicken yesterday by the pool and I gave the dark meat to a black girl out there so I'm not racist. lol she wanted the dark meat

I drank beer with Doug Williams too
 
Last edited:
To ensure he doesnt have to admit being wrong, Im sure alcatraz is trying to get this thread locked as we speak.
 
The other side of the coin is that the US totally ignores the cultural differences, force the Iraqi people to eat at McDonalds, praise Jesus, and watch Oprah.
 
superdave said:
Nothing racist about the guidelines. Many differences exist between cultures, and if we are to do business in another country and culture it behooves us to know the customs, traditions, and culture so that we may gain credibility and trust.


+1

traz, some of those comments are being taken completely out of context.

Saying there's little virtue in frank exchange is not a negative...it's just a cultural thing. Now it may not be true, but it's not anything bad if it is. For example, when I have phone conferences with people in china, it's the same deal. They think americans are all in some huge hurry. They spend about 45 minutes just doing the greetings for petes sake. Business meetings over there are a six hour affair including food, drink, and all sorts of little customs. Getting down to business right away would be an insult.

I saw nothing in that list that would make me think badly of arabs, and mostly just stuff that would raise my awareness about cultural differences I might need to be sensitive to.
 
Man you really got to check your sources before you post something like this bro, I traded back the source of your article and it linked me to three other blogs, all sort of fear monger sights, that the government is bad, the united states is the devil. America is opressing the people of Iraq, blah blah bush is satan.

Like as if anything from these sites are really credible, they take peices of what may be the truth and weave lies around it for thier own purpose to create an imagine they want the reader to see.

I see absolutely nothing about racism in thier, and you say it's not true of arabs.. well you're more canadian then you are arab.. the ones born and bread in iraq have been immersed in an entirely different culture then you.
 
FriendlyCanadian said:
Man you really got to check your sources before you post something like this bro, I traded back the source of your article and it linked me to three other blogs, all sort of fear monger sights, that the government is bad, the united states is the devil. America is opressing the people of Iraq, blah blah bush is satan.

Like as if anything from these sites are really credible, they take peices of what may be the truth and weave lies around it for thier own purpose to create an imagine they want the reader to see.

I see absolutely nothing about racism in thier, and you say it's not true of arabs.. well you're more canadian then you are arab.. the ones born and bread in iraq have been immersed in an entirely different culture then you.

You have just been brainwashed by a classical European expansionist misinformation programme that the ‘Hearts and Minds’ of those called upon to perform acts rational human beings would find repulsive.

That's what the article he linked said and by hell I believe it!

/snicker
 
Longhorn85 said:
Your thread title is not accurate. The manual was written to advise soldiers of some of the realities of dealing with people in that region, focusing on the differences from US culture.

Many ways we approach deal-making or negotiations can be insulting to Arabs and can ruin a leader´s credibility. That is why some of these guidelines are here...avoid fixing responsibility on a person you are negotiating with, etc. It is just done differently.

Many of the things you didn't choose to mention are things like observing prayer times, not showing the bottoms of your feet when sitting down and always graciously accepting any food or drink you are offerered.

You chose only to quote those things you see as negative.

I didnt chose to mention or not to mention anything. All I did was copy/paste the article.
 
flex229 said:
cry me a river.

as soon as they start rallying against the suicide bombers, they can deal with it, as far as i'm concerned.

how bout the Iranian leader saying that "Israel should be wiped off the map"? that seems a little worse than this little leaflet. or, how about the beheadings of civilians on Al-Jazeera? ya, that was cute too.

If someone kills 1000 people and another kills only a 100, that doesn't mean the killer of the hundred is a good guy. He's still a killer. What you're saying only proves my point. Hate on both sides.
 
These are not my views. As far as I'm concerned, both the US army and the Iraqis are committing criminal acts that are uncalled for. This pamflet means nothing to me.

I did not write the title of the thread or the contents of the article.

All I did was copy paste. I wanted a discussion and wanted to know some peoples' views on it.

75th, stop being an ass...I am not working to get this thread locked. I don't really care and I have nothing to do with the locking of threads. I have no influence on mods. So stop selling that bs.

Armyvet, I understand what you're saying about your experiences with arabs and how a lot of them are like that. But a lot of the above points are quite misleading.

Longhorn, I did not pass any judgement or make any statements. I just copied/pasted the article.

Nef & FC- thank you for your opinion. Ths article is anti-american propaganda. The reason I posted it is to show the bs of political propaganda. If I posed anti-arab propaganda, you would say "it's true and 's not just propaganda" I posted anti-US propaganda to try to get unbiased views.
 
the_alcatraz said:
Nef & FC- thank you for your opinion. Ths article is anti-american propaganda. The reason I posted it is to show the bs of political propaganda. If I posed anti-arab propaganda, you would say "it's true and 's not just propaganda" I posted anti-US propaganda to try to get unbiased views.

This paragraph made no sense to me. But, I'm not so sure I'd just "believe" anti arab propoganda. I like to think I'm a tad smarter than that.
 
i think that the article was written so as to make soldiers behave in a certain way and thus avoid misadventure. while not really correct, i think that the info in that article would have been helpful in practice.

its a bit like pharmacy. i tell patients ANYTHING i have to, in order to make sure they do what i want. same principle.

also, i wasnt aware that there was an arab race. i thought arab was an ethnicicity, in shich case, the US government is being ethincicitist...which is a fucking hard word to say lol
 
I agree, it's racist.

I'm sure that any soldier who's going to war against the U.S. will hear racist/anti-U.S. jargon as well. It's difficult to humanize your enemy then ask your troops to go kill them.
 
the_alcatraz said:
Longhorn, I did not pass any judgement or make any statements. I just copied/pasted the article.

the_alcatraz said:
To be honest, this is rediculous, mostly untrue, and seems simply to be anti-arab propaganda.

you are passing at least a few judgements and making at least a few statements. you didn't just copy and paste. this wasn't posted merely for the sake of discussion. you have an opinion, and it's comes across clearly. don't say something and then say that you're not saying it.
 
flex229 said:
cry me a river.

as soon as they start rallying against the suicide bombers, they can deal with it, as far as i'm concerned.

how bout the Iranian leader saying that "Israel should be wiped off the map"? that seems a little worse than this little leaflet. or, how about the beheadings of civilians on Al-Jazeera? ya, that was cute too.


There's a difference between Islamic extremists and simple Arabs. Kinda like the difference between lunatic Christians the media likes to show and normally behaving ones. It's just that Islamic extremists are, well, more extreme.
 
Beachboy6294 said:
My units saying "was Kill em all and let God sort em out!!!

Mine say mess with the best die like the rest.

Although I have posted that line myself lately.

The difference is, we defend. They murder. There is no defense for murder, there is no defense for fanaticism. But, we have someone defending some memorized/lived dogma that has murdered tens of thousands just in the last decade.

What is up with that?
 
pffft. . .that's pretty tame compared to what the marine corps teaches. . .they're smart enough not to put it in writing, though. . .
 
Teaching people who are stationed on foreign soil about cultural differences seems like a good thing to me.

As long as the information is accurate. I have no way to judge this. But even if erronious, I don't view the comments quoted in the first post as explicitly racist. Seems like the authors are careful to state "...by American standards", to ensure that the comments are seen as non-judgemental.
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
Mine say mess with the best die like the rest.

Although I have posted that line myself lately.

The difference is, we defend. They murder. There is no defense for murder, there is no defense for fanaticism. But, we have someone defending some memorized/lived dogma that has murdered tens of thousands just in the last decade.

What is up with that?

when the US-supported Israeli army attacked South Lebanon, they were defending themselves against unarmed women, children and older men who can't fight - true terror
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
Mine say mess with the best die like the rest.

Although I have posted that line myself lately.

The difference is, we defend. They murder. There is no defense for murder, there is no defense for fanaticism. But, we have someone defending some memorized/lived dogma that has murdered tens of thousands just in the last decade.

What is up with that?

They are just totally different people than us and I wish there was some way to keep all of them that feel the way they do in one area without any possibility to come to he US and the same with us. I mean we saw kamikazi's in WWII but not women and kids with bombs strapped to them walking up to people blowing themselves up.
 
Dodohead

HOW can the DoD preach racism when it HAS US SOLDIERS SACRIFICE THEMSELVES FOR ARAB FREEDOMS!

That makes little sense.

If you hate your black neighbors, would you DIE for them so they can have freedom?

Silly. Have you served. I have. Slap!

r
 
Beachboy6294 said:
They are just totally different people than us and I wish there was some way to keep all of them that feel the way they do in one area without any possibility to come to he US and the same with us. I mean we saw kamikazi's in WWII but not women and kids with bombs strapped to them walking up to people blowing themselves up.

Also note the Japanese in WWII attacked US military targets. I didn't see them flying into civilian houses in Hawaii. They attacked military bases.
 
Beachboy6294 said:
They are just totally different people than us and I wish there was some way to keep all of them that feel the way they do in one area without any possibility to come to he US and the same with us. I mean we saw kamikazi's in WWII but not women and kids with bombs strapped to them walking up to people blowing themselves up.

As you will see, they all feel the same, it's the old US of A that did it. Well as was pointed out on yet another let's love a Muslum thread, there are a lot of allies involved in the Iraq thing. Oil has little to do with it, but for people that strap bombs on pre-teens it is hard to believe that a Ruler and his 2 sons murdered and tortured what, a few hundred thousand of their own people?

But, there is no reasoning with these people, how can you debate with an entire population how not to kill your neighbor or those that never even heard of you.

I just don't get it. In war the Japanese flew into military targets, ok, they hardly ever missed, in war soldiers target other soldiers.

The war they fight is for cowards. Killing innocents should warrant a mass extermination of those that don't understand the rules. Then we would be even steven eh?
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
The war they fight is for cowards. Killing innocents should warrant a mass extermination of those that don't understand the rules. Then we would be even steven eh?
It would be an interesting game if both sides played by the same set of rules, no?

I feel sorry for the innocents in the crossfire though.
 
EnderJE said:
It would be an interesting game if both sides played by the same set of rules, no?

I feel sorry for the innocents in the crossfire though.

Indeed, we can't play cause we can't understand their thought process.

There are no rules because they aren't playing. When we finally wake up and find dead all around us we will say, "Gosh, I guess we should have done something to protect ourselves from those fanatics"..

Then the bleeding hearts will say "No they didn't mean it" Let's send them AID.

By the time all the liberals are dead we all will be. Read about their tactics and their training. It is scary shit. You can't protect yourself from someone that fully intends to kill you AND die too. I lived because I wasn't found of the alternative, but, these people WANT to die.

No defense there bro.
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
Indeed, we can't play cause we can't understand their thought process.

There are no rules because they aren't playing. When we finally wake up and find dead all around us we will say, "Gosh, I guess we should have done something to protect ourselves from those fanatics"..

Then the bleeding hearts will say "No they didn't mean it" Let's send them AID.

By the time all the liberals are dead we all will be. Read about their tactics and their training. It is scary shit. You can't protect yourself from someone that fully intends to kill you AND die too. I lived because I wasn't found of the alternative, but, these people WANT to die.

No defense there bro.
A friend of mine summed up the environment over there in the same way. I hope she's safe (even if she's a Canuck).
 
wait, werent the lebanese shooting rockets/mortars over the israeli border?

since when is it expected that a country who is attacked by rockets/mortars isn't supposed to retaliate?

awesome logic there. mmm hmmm..

here is true terror: standing by and saying and doing NOTHING about the suicide bombers. or standing by and saying NOTHING when civilians are beheaded on national television stations by radical muslims.

the_alcatraz said:
when the US-supported Israeli army attacked South Lebanon, they were defending themselves against unarmed women, children and older men who can't fight - true terror
 
layinback said:
+1

"if you're not for us, you're against us" rhetoric, is divisive and dangerous.

any form of racism is the genesis for evil. when you dehumanize a people
you can commit unspeakable acts of oppression and violence on them
without reservation and in good conscious.

i am embarrassed and angry that we as americans elected him as our
leader. it will be over soon. i hope we've learned our lesson


Exactly my view too.
 
lol...lebanese?

It was hixxbollah, a militant radical "group' not-supported by the Lebanese government. Hence the civil war in Lebanon? or do you not watch politics.

Thousands of people, innocent woman and children were murdered. How many peole died in Israel? 15?

flex229 said:
wait, werent the lebanese shooting rockets/mortars over the israeli border?

since when is it expected that a country who is attacked by rockets/mortars isn't supposed to retaliate?

awesome logic there. mmm hmmm..

here is true terror: standing by and saying and doing NOTHING about the suicide bombers. or standing by and saying NOTHING when civilians are beheaded on national television stations by radical muslims.
 
the_alcatraz said:
lol...lebanese?

It was hixxbollah, a militant radical "group' not-supported by the Lebanese government. Hence the civil war in Lebanon? or do you not watch politics.

Thousands of people, innocent woman and children were murdered. How many peole died in Israel? 15?

Its still expected for a country to control excursions beyond its borders that involve its neighbors. Its their territory so its their job to clean it up.
 
You're right :)

But we can't cpntrol it. The Lebanese army is not strong enough to defeat Hizbollah. Plus, a part of the Lebanese army supports Hizbollah. Pretty much, we're fucked. Hence the last civil war, and the army didn't even interfere.

mrplunkey said:
Its still expected for a country to control excursions beyond its borders that involve its neighbors. Its their territory so its their job to clean it up.
 
the_alcatraz said:
You're right :)

But we can't cpntrol it. The Lebanese army is not strong enough to defeat Hizbollah. Plus, a part of the Lebanese army supports Hizbollah. Pretty much, we're fucked. Hence the last civil war, and the army didn't even interfere.

What a shame, Beirut used to be "the Paris of the Middle East".
 
when you got fuckin terrorists like Hizbollah attack Beirut and kill innocent people, then you're fucked :(

My family was traped underground for 2 days...

Mr. dB said:
What a shame, Beirut used to be "the Paris of the Middle East".
 
List looks pretty damn spot on to me.. not real sure how you can construe something that points out obvious cultural differences as racist

I guess is an elephant was shitting in your living room.. you could somehow pretend that wasnt there either
 
milo hobgoblin said:
List looks pretty damn spot on to me.. not real sure how you can construe something that points out obvious cultural differences as racist

I guess is an elephant was shitting in your living room.. you could somehow pretend that wasnt there either
Hes an idiot...that much has been well established.
 
Fuckin grow up! No wonder you were in the negative billion karma...cause u talk a lotta shit....that was uncalled for! You dnt like what I have to say or my threads, dnt post in them....

75th said:
Hes an idiot...that much has been well established.
 
the_alcatraz said:
Fuckin grow up! No wonder you were in the negative billion karma...cause u talk a lotta shit....that was uncalled for! You dnt like what I have to say or my threads, dnt post in them....
And youre racist against persians.

And I was in the negative karma territory because I purposely made bad bets in the bookie forum, fyi.
 
Beachboy6294 said:
I bet anyone some karma this thread gets locked?
In.
 
When you have someone like 75th start sayin shit instead of keepin it civil, offcourse it's going to get locked. I guess not everyone is raised on good manners. Some people are less fortunate.

Beachboy6294 said:
I bet anyone some karma this thread gets locked?
 
Beachboy6294 said:
How much?
Oh, I misunderstood...I thought we were turning this into a karma thread so it would get locked.
 
the_alcatraz said:
50/50...I can usually predict if it gets locked
How many PMs have you sent asking this to be locked so far?

beachboy, gimme the karma back I just sent you.
 
I dnt send PMs for this to get locked. Usually people can smell your shit a mile away.

75th said:
How many PMs have you sent asking this to be locked so far?

beachboy, gimme the karma back I just sent you.
 
Beachboy6294 said:
Everytime I see your name 75th I think of my days in the Army!
Hooah!
 
the_alcatraz said:
I dnt send PMs for this to get locked. Usually people can smell your shit a mile away.
My shit smells like smart, so Im not surprised youre offended.

Racist.
 
yes, if you say that long enough, you'll believe it.

75th said:
My shit smells like smart, so Im not surprised youre offended.

Racist.
 
lol..whatever you say man...I'm not going to argue with you...you take shit personally and start getting upset...

Grumpy Old Man said:
I know, worked for you didn't it?
 
the_alcatraz said:
lol..whatever you say man...I'm not going to argue with you...you take shit personally and start getting upset...


Not me. I just read your posts. I see a pattern here. But I am not surprised. I stopped listening to you when you started talking. Does that sound familiar?

I could care less. I have my opinions about you, I would never voice them. Been there seen you.
 
You have your opinions, and you're entitled to them. I don't really care what you think about me. Let's end it at that.

Just some advice, don't pass judgement and take shit personally on here. It's not worth the headache.

I argue with a lot of posters in here, like juiced, MM and 75th, but IRL, tbh, I would probably not mind hanging out with them and shootin the shit.

Having diff political views does not make me hate you or disrespect you, and I'm sorry you feel that way about me. It's your choice really.

Grumpy Old Man said:
Not me. I just read your posts. I see a pattern here. But I am not surprised. I stopped listening to you when you started talking. Does that sound familiar?

I could care less. I have my opinions about you, I would never voice them. Been there seen you.
 
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